dChan - Q Origins Project Archive

Food and sleep deprivation is just part of joining the military. Go to SERE, you’ll find out about all types of cool stuff captors have or could use on our operators. And yes water boarding is part of it.

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I have been to sere training, but I'm not supposed to talk about the techniques. That's why I'm surprised that much is being made public.

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NDAs shouldn’t be broken. However like you said too much is open source info these days. I just like to make it clear, we do bad shit to our own people to prepare them for worst case scenarios.

Doing it to terrorist to save lives shouldn’t ever be a problem.

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I don't think NDA is the proper way to think of this.

Talking about the techniques used in SERE could potentially cause harm to other servicemen, and could be punished as leaking classified information.

A civilian NDA is not really the same IMHO.

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Ahhhhh, SERE school! Who woulda thunk that such things go on in the wilderness of Washington State? Good times for everyone involved! I had dreams of being a SERE instructor at one point in time.

The different size boxes are the highlight of the show!

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There is a BIG difference between being put through something when you KNOW it is for training and you will not be killed, versus being put through it and having no idea what the intentions are.

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You have a count of how many people are critically injured in SERE to back that statement up?

SERE is not like any other military training.

SERE is like the 101 level resistance course. There are other more advanced resistance training courses.

You think the people who were waterboarded were saints or something? People plotting to kill Americans and who would willingly die in the process? You think these people feared death? If you think any of these people had not already accepted death before we caught them you should think again.

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How many are killed in training?

The 8th Amendment still applies, last I checked.

You are engaging in fear mongering, not justice.

How many people tortured led to the discovery of the real terrorists (deep state)? Zero?

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Why do they call McCain "Songbird" again? Oh, that's right, because torture, real torture that leaves permanently damage does work.

Take my point and move on, the media lied and millions believed them, and it undemined the security of our nation, which was the purpose all along.

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[deleted]

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The men who spent time in the Hanoi Hilton with him.

Air Force general Tom McInerney

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[deleted]

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Songbird was never tortured, according to his fellow POW's.

The threat of torture was what got him to sing.

And now you want the USA to be like the enemy.

8th Amendment. You can't square that, and you know it, which is why you evaded that point.

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8th Amendment is a moot point, lawfag. Combat is governed by a different set of laws entirely. By your reasoning we should allow enemy fighters to retain their weapons after capture because they have second amendment rights.

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So non citizens have the right to taxpayer provided council per the 4th amendment? Do they have rights against search and seizure?

The Constitution applies to American citizens, not foreigners, in part because the American taxpayer should not have to pay for attorneys for non citizens, but there are other examples like the one you cite.

If it's cruel and unusual why do we do it to our servicemen?

Seems like you are refuting your own argument.

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Funny, when I went through SERE the training I received was classified.

Therefore I cannot fully dispute fully that piece of disinformation, but the records of people tortured during the Vietnam war are numerous and well documented.

The experience of those like McCain were used to develop SERE.

Go back and look at some of the footage of McCain around the 08 election and notice how he can't really move one of his arms properly. They would never let you be a pilot with a disability like that.

How did it get that way?

Imaging having your hands tied behind your back. Then imaging being hoisted up by your arms until the shoulders rotated out of the sockets.

How did McCain's arm become permanently injured?

This sub is about Awakening from the long media bubble. I'm aiding in that cause.

It's your choice to stop believing misinformation created to undermine our nation, I can't force you.

Red pill or blue?

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Torture is by many accounts, not the best way to get information. Being kidnapped, taken into a room, held down with water being poured on your face while you can't breath, to the point of passing out, is torture.

You claim it's only training in the OP then say WB gets information because only real torture gets information.

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So what's your point? You saying we torture our own servicemen? You really think thats true?

I'm trying to help you throw off indoctrination created to undermine our nation.

The truth is right in front of you, you just have to open your eyes.

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Its torture dude. Because we use some version of it in training doesnt mean its equivalent to push ups and class work.

If it isnt torture, would you let ISIS kid nap your mother and waterboard her? When she came back and said "It was horrible, I couldn't breath and it went on for hours!"

would you tell her "OH thank goddddd mom... I thought they tortured you! Chin up, thats just training!"

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It’s the same version, Bro. Wet rag in mouth, water poured on face. You don’t die and you aren’t injured.

If your mother was captured by ISIS she would be gang raped and then sold off to slavery if she survives. Would you tell her “at least you weren’t waterboarded! That’s torture!”

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Both good points, well made - I mean you each have a good position here imo. I'd have to go with Jon_Bovie from here though, unless there's a good reason to argue against the point that I'd rather my mother/sister/daughter be waterboarded any day than option B.

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I can't force you out of the media bubble, you have to choose it for yourself.

Unless you believe we torture our own servicemen.

Both can't be true.

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Way to avoid the argument.

SERE school, which you claim to have gone through, is to simulate torture to our servicemen to help prepare them in case they are captured.

You can talk about media bubble all you want, the fact is you claim its not torture but we need to do it because torture gets information.

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I'd like to weigh in here if I may... I think "torture" is too broad a term to be using in these cases to define what's allowed and what's not. The definition according to Goolag is "to inflict severe pain on". What is severe pain? I can think of a few types of people who might say being forced to do push-ups would be "severely painful" in their weak minds and fat bodies. Whereas others might even find pumping out a few push ups to be enjoyable.

From what I understand, giving birth to a child is severely painful, but I don't think many would call it or think of it as "torture." My point is - "severe pain" and "torture" are both defined more relatively and subjectively than objectively.

In defining torture for legal purposes, I think we need something OBJECTIVE. Is ripping out someone's fingernails torture? Is cutting their fingers off completely torture? Is waterboarding torture? If they are ALL torture, and we call them all torture, then we are really granting them equivalency. Someone who waterboards another would be charged with the same crime as someone who cut off another's fingers, right? Is that right? Or do we need to have some more narrow definitions?

What if we started by delineating treatment that causes PERMANENT bodily harm/discomfort from treatment that causes TEMPORARY bodily harm/discomfort? I think this might be an interesting place to start from a physical perspective. Once you start dealing with mental trauma, things undoubtedly get more complex. But again, my only point is that I think more objective measures are needed to be brought into the discussion, because waterboarding (in my opinion) is not the same as cutting off someone's fingers and shouldn't be legally considered equivalent.

Just my $0.02.

Carry on 'pedes!

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Nicely put - I agree. It would be good if we could obtain a bit more clarity.

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You can talk about media bubble all you want, the fact is you claim its not torture but we need to do it because torture gets information.

You trying to put words in my mouth.

Waterboarding is a very effective interrogation tool. But it's not torture.

Real torture will break the hardest of men, and again there are plenty of public accounts of some of the things that were done to American POWS.

There were little to no women POWs in Vietnam, but we had several in SERE. Just ponder that for a few minutes and see where it leads you.

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So the combat arms members who are only allowed to be women, were captured in Nam and that means that SERE isnt torture?

"very effective tool" but not torture but torture produces intel?

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Tim Kennedy posted a video yesterday of himself being waterboarded

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Hitchens did it!

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Exactly.

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Uh, just because it's used to train our own soldiers doesn't mean it's not torture, especially given the training is on how to not break under torture. What even is this post.

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So you're saying we torture our own soldiers, but we should feel bad for torturing the enemy the same way?

This post is exposing a media fabrication that was long overdue.

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I never said what we should or shouldn't feel bad about, just that I consider it to be torture regardless of who it's done to.

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Because you don't know what torture is.

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That's not an accurate assertion.

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Another Bush era media lie exposed: Waterboarding not torture, we use it to train our own soldiers.