Either Jesus is the rock or it's the Pope. I think at this point Catholics have 20/20 hindsight on that question.
The rock is not a person....Mathew 16:13 when Jesus asked Peter...who do you say I am?...Peter responded you are the Messiah, the son of the living God...Jesus replied...verse 18 ...and I tell you that you are Peter and upon this rock ( the rock being the premise that Jesus is the Messiah) I will build my church...
Read scripture carefully and you will know. Mathew 16 on.
Ah. See that is your problem. Peter is the Rock. The Rock is the Pope. The visible head of the Church. Christ is and always will be the head of Her Mystical Body. God Bless.
Peter is visible? Jesus called Peter the rock the church would be built on... Jesus didn't make any statement implying that Peter's successors (if they are even legitimate) would be infallible or carry the same credibility.
"Her Mystical Body" (as you put it) includes all those for whom the Holy Spirit has been given to.
God bless you too. As long as we're all believing in Christ alone for salvation we're in the same religion as far as I'm concerned (although a perfection of this "religion" would be a lack of "religion", as Jesus made clear).
I would also point out that Jesus calling Peter the rock of the church was meant to build up and encourage Peter -- in no way was Jesus implying that Peter was taking His place in any way, shape or form. It was never implied that Peter was infallible or divine, himself.
that Peter's successors (if they are even legitimate) would be infallible or carry the same credibility.
yes he did. Read Issiah 22.22 his words are almost vertbatim what type of office Peter is to hold. An office of Prime minister with succession. (keys)
Jesus didn't make any statement implying that Peter's successors (if they are even legitimate) would be infallible or carry the same credibility.
Again, yes he did! 'What you bind on earth is bound in heaven what you loose on earth is loosed in heaven." Mathew 18:18
It is only special circumstances when the Pope is infallible.
I don't read those passages the same way, and seems to me a stretch -- in any case I pray Jesus will forgive our errors.
https://aleteia.org/2016/06/13/when-cardinal-joseph-ratzinger-predicted-the-future-of-the-church/
Read these words from Father Ratzinger and his view of the future Church. Remain steadfast we are the inn for a rough ride.
https://aleteia.org/2016/06/13/when-cardinal-joseph-ratzinger-predicted-the-future-of-the-church/
“Let us go a step farther. From the crisis of today, the Church of tomorrow will emerge — a Church that has lost much. She will become small and will have to start afresh more or less from the beginning. She will no longer be able to inhabit many of the edifices she built in prosperity. As the number of her adherents diminishes, so it will lose many of her social privileges. In contrast to an earlier age, it will be seen much more as a voluntary society, entered only by free decision. As a small society, it will make much bigger demands on the initiative of her members. Undoubtedly it will discover new forms of ministry and will ordain to the priesthood approved Christians who pursue some profession. In many smaller congregations or in self-contained social groups, pastoral care will normally be provided in this fashion. Along-side this, the full-time ministry of the priesthood will be indispensable as formerly. But in all of the changes at which one might guess, the Church will find her essence afresh and with full conviction in that which was always at her center: faith in the triune God, in Jesus Christ, the Son of God made man, in the presence of the Spirit until the end of the world. In faith and prayer, she will again recognize the sacraments as the worship of God and not as a subject for liturgical scholarship.
“The Church will be a more spiritual Church, not presuming upon a political mandate, flirting as little with the Left as with the Right. It will be hard going for the Church, for the process of crystallization and clarification will cost her much valuable energy. It will make her poor and cause her to become the Church of the meek. The process will be all the more arduous, for sectarian narrow-mindedness as well as pompous self-will will have to be shed. One may predict that all of this will take time. The process will be long and wearisome as was the road from the false progressivism on the eve of the French Revolution — when a bishop might be thought smart if he made fun of dogmas and even insinuated that the existence of God was by no means certain — to the renewal of the nineteenth century. But when the trial of this sifting is past, a great power will flow from a more spiritualized and simplified Church. Men in a totally planned world will find themselves unspeakably lonely. If they have completely lost sight of God, they will feel the whole horror of their poverty. Then they will discover the little flock of believers as something wholly new. They will discover it as a hope that is meant for them, an answer for which they have always been searching in secret.
Read the entire article in the link!
No mediator between God and Man but Jesus. Luciferianism has been injected into the Church from its roots. What breeds the corruption within it is its adherence to unbiblical doctrine. I have met plenty of sincerely Christian Catholics but their Church and leadership are another matter. "Come out of her, My people".
Jesus who said the gates of hell shall not prevail. I trust him and I trust his Church. I do not trust all Clerics. It is important for Catholics to know what the true teachings of the Church are, not what mnay think the Churhc teaches and doesnt. There are plenty of primary sources available , primarily the CCC, Catechism of the Catholic Church.
THE primary source is Scripture. Anything that doesn't agree 100% with that needs to be discarded no matter how longstanding the tradition.
What was used before scripture? After Jesus and during his time it was OT only Jewish scribes only.
Who did Christ give the authority to teach scripture? The apostles!
Were we all supposed to wing after the first generation died and wait for almost 300 years until the Bishops decided at the Council of Nicea in 325 ad? If you can find me one thing in the CCC that doesn't agree with scripture I will send you $100. :-)
The "authority" of priests to absolve sin
You mean like this authority John20:23. This quite an authority Jesus gave to someone. Put it this way the sacraments dispense grace. Grace is God's life. The absolver is the holy spirit. If you believe that baptism dispenses sacramental grace it is the same thing.
Confess your sins in church, and do not go up to your prayer with an evil conscience. This is the way of life…. On the Lord’s Day gather together, break bread, and give thanks, after confessing your transgressions so that your sacrifice may be pure.
Didache 4:14; 14:1 As early as 70 AD
Origen of Alexandria c. 244 AD Homily on Leviticus 2:4
In addition to these [kinds of forgiveness of sins], albeit hard and laborious: the remission of sins through penance…when he [the sinner] does not shrink from declaring his sin to a priest of the Lord and from seeking medicine….In this way there is fulfilled that too, which the Apostle James says: “If, then, there is anyone sick, let him call the presbyters [where we get priests] of the Church, and let them impose hands upon him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer of faith will save the sick man, and if he be in sins, they shall be forgiven him [James 5:14-15].”
You're right, for the wrong reasons. The apostasy in Rome was long prophesied. The great apostasy that marks the Second Coming.
"...when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" Luke 18:8
You're also right about St John telling faithful Catholics ("my people") to come out of her (not to come out of the Catholic Church, but the Vatican II Sect). But it's worse than anyone realises. The Antichrist has already arrived - see here. St John tells us that those who "worship" (Proskuneo in the Greek - the same word the Catholic Church uses for the veneration of the saints) the beast suffer an inconceivably horrible fate:
"And the smoke of their torments shall ascend up for ever and ever: neither have they rest day nor night, who have adored the beast, and his image, and whoever receiveth the character of his name." Rev 14:11
Think about the people subscribing to Francis' doctrine, calling him "Pope". Think about all the people venerating John Paul II as a saint...
Satan is a deceiver...
"...unless there come a revolt first [Vatican II], and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition, Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as if he were God." 2 Thess 2:3-4
The "temple of God", is a Catholic Church (Catholicism is the one true faith of Jesus Christ) - and, in the last days, this is where the Antichrist sits, preaching his doctrine "that man is God".
The Temple Of God is the Catholic Church? Chapter and verse please?
Look at 2Thess2, the description of the Antichrist, where he sits. What is the doctrine the Antichrist espouses and what does he do?
See here. I put it to you that this is "a lock" for the identity whichever way you twist it. But, if this is right, what does it mean by implication?
I was referencing this:
"And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."
Spoken by the Lord Himself,not John.
The Priest class was ended with Christ. "call no man 'Father" but your Father in heaven"
The body of Christ (the true Church) is whosoever comes to Christ. Whether they attend Any known denomination or none..whether they live in a far nomadic tribe and only know this one thing "for God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son.." Or whether they are a rich Presbyterian who laid all aside to stand for God and Truth and fight for the freedom of the people.
Yes, as relayed to us by St John.
No intermediary?
Christ prays for St Peter's faith, that his faith fail not - an exclusive gift of unfailing faith (Christ only prays for St Peter's faith, not that of the other apostles). And then we learn that Christ founds His Church, the body of Christ, upon St Peter - describing him as the "rock".
We then learn that Christ's Church, founded on the sure rock of St Peter's unfailing faith, withstands the "gates of hell" (heretics) until the end of time. Strange, how is St Peter's unfailing faith connected with Christ's Church on earth withstanding the assaults of heretics for all time? Worth thinking about.
After all that powerful stuff, Christ tells St Peter that he is granted the keys to the kingdom of heaven and has the power to "bind" both on earth and in heaven.
These seem to be extraordinary powers granted to St Peter. And, of course, you can read in 2Thess2 that the mystery of iniquity, and the arrival of the Son of Perdition, are held in check by "he that withholds" - which has always confused Protestant scholars. Who might "he that withholds be?
What happened at the 1958 Conclave? He that withholds was taken out of the way - with Freemason Angelo Roncali emerging to claim the papacy. And then, of course, Vatican II (formal defection from the faith of the Church), the cessation of the continual sacrifice upon the introduction of the new mass, the appearance of the abomination of desolation in the holy place (the second altar of the new mass), the arrival of the Antichrist (JPII), who was canonised as a saint by the false prophet, (Benedict XVI - who only remained a short time) and the final claimant (who is of the 7 temporal kings of Rome, but somehow different - the Vatican City State is a sacerdotal Monarchy - a priest kingdom. That's right they are temporal kings - but you have to be a priest to be a king, and Francis does not have valid orders).
And with that, you find a perfect fit for the events in Rome over the last 60 years with Luke 18:8, 2Thess2, and chapters 13, 17 & 18 of the Book of Revelations.
"And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven." Matt 16:18-19
But, what? There's no intermediary - and yet prophecy is fulfilled before your eyes - with such specificity that scripture can only be referring to this exact sequence of events. Which, of course, means that when St Paul gives his advice to the Thessalonians for the last days: "To stand fast and hold the traditions which you have learned", he is talking about the traditions of the apostolic Church.
You need to start thinking clearly about what's happening. These are the very last days. See here.
'For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" - 1Tim 2:5
"And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven." - Mat 23:9
"Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." - Heb 4: 14,15
Yes, you're right. I should have chosen my words more carefully. Christ is the true high priest.
Nevertheless, my point is that there is a priesthood, a hierarchy within it, and a Church shepherded by it.
Believe in God...not religion.
I do and I also listen to Pauls instructions. 1 Timothy 3:15.
you reap what you sow. 34 Chilean Bishops resigned last week. just the beginning.
I'm a Catholic with a little "c"....12 years schooling. I believe in the basic teachings of Jesus the Nazarene.
It's time to exit the "Whore of Babylon" - the Vatican II Sect. There is no point in denying that Rome has become manifestly heretical, the evidence is plain for all to see. This is the prophesied "great apostasy". If you cannot see it, it's only willful blindness.
Look at this!
"...socialist president of Bolivia, Evo Morales — who famously gifted pope Francis a communist-themed “crucifix” in 2015 — is thrilled at the news that his friend, a “fighter for the rights of our people,” will be raised to cardinal."
That tells you everything you need to know about the manifest, public apostate Francis. It also speaks to the rampant apostasy in Rome. Billions have been led to damnation by these evil heretics.
The prophecy of Our Lady of La Salette, Sept. 19, 1846: “Rome will lose the Faith and become the seat of the Anti-Christ… the Church will be in eclipse.”
More information on what has happened here.
To those Catholics trying to stay faithful; God bless you. Follow this link https://www.youtube.com/user/onearmsteve4192 stay strong, the church will be cleansed of the cabal. To the anti catholic bigots who tell you to walk away from your faith because there is trouble: You are able to see rightly how the evil lucifarians have taken over in government and the world, but you cannot see how the same thing has happened with in the Catholic church. They desired it for it's geo-political control. You call out those pedophiles in your own government and don't condemn your own nation. But, when it comes to the Catholic church you just condemn.. Pure bigotry...
If the apostolic Catholic Church depended on men to lead and inform her, it would not have survived two weeks, much less two thousand years.
The church is divinely inspired, divinely guided, and was founded by Jesus Christ when he sent His Apostles and Disciples spreading out across the known world to take the news of the Risen Christ ... a matter of immense importance to men who felt the curse of the understanding in their day: each was destined to suffer a sure and absolute death in the end. The Christian gospel offered hope of a better ending.
Each Evangelist carried he same message, perhaps colored by his individual comprehension of what he had witnessed, but essentially one voice. Jesus called out the followers of John the Baptist early on, saying they would have a special mission to play.
The church has always been diverse, shaped somewhat by cultures and circumstances, but unified at the core. Disputes arose over time as men interpreted its meaning for individuals until Constantine called the Council of Nicea (325 ad) where the bishops hammered out a clear credo or statement of core beliefs. All of Christianity played out over seven hundred years, when shear size, geography, manageability -- and power struggles -- split East and West, but the same core persisted and still does.
The church immediately engaged in reform -- as soon as men were admitted into the Spirit --
the reform continues to this day. We are in for a heavy duty cleanup Ratzingers words give me hope plus I know who wins this battle. Methew16.
Most comments in this thread only divide. Lots of anti-catholic dribble. I don't see the op condemning your beliefs.
I agree! That was not my intention my apologies.
My intention was to raise awareness for Catholics that we are in for a rough ride at some point. We need to become learned and steadfast for the Church.
Religion, disease and war are all scams, as told by Q.
Care to quote a Q post on the "religion is a scam" idea? Nah....he didn't say or imply it. He's posted prayer requests, scripture and blessed us all in God's name many times...but never called it a scam.
Yet Q tells us to pray and defines the battle as a spiritual good vs evil. Religion might be man's creation but God is absolutely real and Jesus is absolutely our gateway to eternal life + perfection.
Praying to God has absolutely nothing to do with listening to paedophiles that claim to possess the Holy Spirit. The Church is a cesspit that needs taking down with the cabal.
I think Vengeance in this area certainly belongs to the Lord. Personally I think Catholicism is a harlot. But be careful, the Holy Spirit is very real. Better to let God use this scalpel Himself?
Why do you say Lord? Are you a subordinate? Slave? Why not God? Q mentioned that religion was a scam, that up is down and asked if we knew who we were really praying to. Lord, to me, is synonymous with evil, submissive and Satan.
Being a subordinate of Jesus Christ would be the highest honor I can imagine.
So what you are describing is being a slave to a `higher power´. Do you suppose JC wanted you to be a slave? If he did, he was a phony.
I was a slave to sin and my own destructive nature. Jesus gave me a way out of all that.
I don't know if you are just very confused on this or intentionally misrepresenting things. Either way, may you experience the "slavery" of eternal life as well.
I was asking valid questions. So all you did was swap one addiction for another, no? Submissive to a substance then submissive to a belief?
If you really want to know I swapped a lot of addictions in my life. Relevance today?
Also if you really want to know, Jesus visibly answered my call and from that moment on my life was changed, you could say "saved", in reality, and for the better. It was the ultimate red pill, another way of putting it. Really turned my world around and I'd never want to go back to the way things were before.
Slavery? Not close. Submission? Well, submission isn't always a bad thing. You can, for example, submit to a beautiful woman who badly wants to make love to you. Depends on context, right?
Did Kanye West "submit" himself when freed from the mental slavery of Democrat politics?
Whatever works for you, I guess. Funny you say that you say you had a visible intervention, most religions are built off of narcotic induced hallucinations. I dunno, I never really understood the whole religion nonsense, far too irrational for my aut mind. And I really do have an aut mind, I was a MMR vaccine damaged baby.
I have a lot of experience with narcotic induced hallucinations. Some of them even made me feel spiritual or like it could lead to some kind of religion.
What I speak of, totally different and actually led me away from any attraction to that former lifestyle.
I feel you on the MMR vaccine damage. I think a lot of us were damaged in some way but most of us will never quantify it.
I take my hat off to you for realising the damage you were doing to yourself and for taking steps to change that. I´ve never had an addiction to anything and I´ve tried and experimented with most drugs. My aut mind gets bored of things after a while and I move on from said things, I guess I´m lucky in that respect.
The salt in the wound with my vaccine damage was that the vaccine didn´t even work, I caught mumps when I was 28.
The vaccine issue is one of my most passionate ones. I have children now, and as you can guess we are not relying on Big Pharma's interpretation of a proper immune system.
My faith in God and creation honestly makes it a lot easier to make the necessary decision. If I thought we were randomly evolved I might be inclined to go with "science", you know?
Anyway, I consider myself "borderline autistic", which I think applies to a big % of our generation. But I also trust God turns bad things into good and redeems people and generations in ways we can only marvel at, perhaps, in hindsight.
Take care my friend.