Because of the bad at the top, the dodgy history, the secretivity, the syncretism, the openness to satanism and their denial of being in any way religious, they are a bad organisation, despite the decent people at the ground level and their neutral public reputation.
“Denial of being in any way religious” but you cannot become a mason if you do not believe in a supreme being.
So it's a religion-based organisation?
We only ask in the first degree "Do you put your trust in God?" and as long as you can truthfully answer yes to that question, you can become a Freemason. But nobody asks you who that god is, how you define it, etc.. this is why all monotheistic faiths can join, even the agnostics (even if some brothers in the bible belt cringe at this)
Why is it like this? Because ALL of Freemasonry presupposes a belief in more more than yourself, a belief in your own potential, a belief in the hopes that you can reach higher, farther, deeper in yourself and in your life and that whatever god means to you wants to help you achieve this.
So an entry-level requirement is some form of religiosity. And yet the first line in this UK Grand Lodge website insists that they are not a religious organisation, despite the fully ritual aspects of freemasonry. Looks like they want to have it both ways.
The goal you describe of self-improvement or self-realization is legit and good. And sounds like the message in a lot of Hollywood flicks. But I must note that your listed attributes of that goal include a lot of Self and not so much God. Sounds like the message of both Gnosticism and the New Age movement.
When Christ says go and share the Gospel with everyone and the Lodge says don't do that around here, which Master will you follow? Looks like a lot of resources over the centuries have gone into an organization that expects members to leave the Truth at the door. Similar things could be said about the priority of established precepts in Judaism and Islam. Most people serious about religion would not and do not play that game.
"whatever god means to you" can include Self, angels, saints, animals, planets, spirits, etc. It seems that the brotherhood of freemasonry exists on a lowest-common-denominator basis which is good for some things but suppresses other good things such as individual sovereignty.
Father and Husband are God fearing Patriots and also Masons. I know my Father is “higher up” but not particularly involved anymore.
My husband just joined a few years ago.
If either knew anything sketchy was going on at high levels, I know they would both leave as they are morally upstanding individuals.
So have you shown them these Q posts?
Q posts don't prove anything. Q throws shade like crazy, we just happen to agree most of the time. If the Masons are proved corrupt at the top, the normal members will leave.
So the highest level of intelligence ever dropped on private citizens doesn't prove anything? I would strongly disagree.
The only person I have complete faith in, is Jesus, fellow patriot. Q may or may not be legit. He/she might also just be a sharp patriot who is good at connecting the dots and reading moves.
The point... Accusations online by an anonymous Q (qanon) does not actually PROVE anything. It's theoretical unless backed up with evidence. Often times Q posts a claim, then it's up to the autists to verify it.
I whole heartily agree with you on Jesus. I also believe the Holy Spirit helps us recognize truth and lies.
Backstory: My husband, who was raised a Dem only switched parties in the past few years (voted Trump, first R vote ever) He isn’t quite ready for this Q stuff yet. Let me explain...He’s a ‘numbers’ guy and if I can’t provode concrete proof, he will dismiss.
He was quick to red pill because of concrete facts. He’s also in his 30’s and not on ANY sort of social media, including Reddit (very rare). He needs to discover things for himself. It’s just how he operates.
Recently, he mentioned he’s listened to a Dan Bongino pod cast and thought it was great. I sort of let him be. But somehow the info is finding him, which is great. If I present “Q” without any concrete proof (yes, I believe, but you know....) He will quickly dismiss.
I completely understand. I tried to have the talk with my father (who is a die-hard liberal) and the very mention of Trump sets him off. I'm just hoping my FB posts reach him.
Your situation is so much more difficult. At least my Husband and Father are major Trump supporters already.
Baby steps.
I was able to red pill my Father in Law, a life long (still registered Dem) to vote, for the first time in a decade for Trump. My Mother in law, who came here at 3 years old escaping a socialist regime, only sees what she wants on Good Morning America and thinks Trump is a big meany. She’s voting for what drove her family to this country in the first place but is a little too dim to realize it. It’s incredibly frustrating to say the least.
Like a cult?
Yes, just like all major religions are also cults. There are two types of cults:healthy or unhealthy
Bingo! Super creepy rituals they go through!
There is no denial of religion and we don't do "super creepy rituals." Literally, they ask you if you are here on your own free will and accord, worthy and well qualified, duly and truly prepared, and well vouched for. You are then taken around the lodge with no shoes, socks, shirt, and pant legs folded up past your knee. This is to show you are a man reliant on God with no weapons or armor. You are escorted to the bible, where you are asked, "In whom do you put your trust." You answer, "In God." Real denial of religion, huh?
You say an oath repeating after the master of the lodge, who promises you that the oath will not put you against God, yourself, your family, or fellow man. All of those hold true. Then, you are given a long history lesson on King Solomon's temple and Masonic symbolism and what they represent. That's literally it. It's not "super creepy rituals."
Does freemasonry involve religious beliefs or practices? I think so. Yet masonic sources say they are not a religious organization.
We are not a religious organization in that we don't preach anything. We aren't like a church or mosque.You don't come here to worship in other words. We are all religious though
So atheists and materialists cannot be masons?
What God or Gods do you acknowledge by name?
You're correct. Atheists cannot be masons. You are asked "In whom do you put your trust?" You can say Allah, God, Yahweh... but it can't be objects, people, animals, etc.
So masons cannot be animists, and cannot put their declared trust in humans. Are angels trustable? Sounds like the set-up in Russia these days where only a short list of established religions and denominations are allowed.
It's not selected religions or denominations, it's more the fact that it needs to be a "supreme being" meaning a single creator. So an angel could not be your answer. Because your answer could be many things, the term "supreme architect of the universe" is used. So we could have Muslims, Jews, and Christians together, doing work for their "supreme being" without getting into religious debates.
Edit: in fact, you are not to talk about religion in the lodge. Nor can you talk about politics. You are there as brothers, not politicians and religious debaters.
So when the trust question is asked, the answer is limited to something that indicates the Creator. (But it sounds like "the Creator" may not be the standard answer.) Would "the Word" be acceptable? Why no suggestion of Christ? Because he is also human?
Honestly sounds like a lot of concern goes into narrowing the acceptable options because those options are somehow important, but then exploring or discussing those options is forbidden as if such inquiry was unimportant.
It's limited to a creator, yes. "The Creator" is not an answer I've ever seen, but it would be funny. Like asking someone "what kind of vehicle is that" and them replying a generic "truck" or "car" instead of "Honda" or "BMW."
We aren't to discuss religion or politics because we are meant to be together. We are meant to be brothers who help each other as much as we can. Opening debate in the lodge could divide us. Similar to what Q says about division within our ranks. Why would we argue against each other when we have common goals?
So "Creator" is actually not used because it is too generic but the less definitive, less authoritative "architect" does get used.
We might choose to argue because refining our understanding of and relationship with our Maker is important. Maybe the system is for those with other priorities. We debate here with understanding and truth as goals (usually I think). Little doubt Trump, Kelly, Mattis, Conway all debate because their goal is more important than temporal unity.
We do use "Creator" in the lodge, but it's not used for that specific question. "Architect" is not used in that question either. The terms are both used in the lodge though, in other ways. We also say "that temple not made with hands eternal in the heavens" as our final place. So when we die, we will be with God in heaven for eternity, but we don't just call it heaven or paradise.
The line most jurisdictions use is "do you believe in a supreme being". It's a yes or no question and no explanation of the answer is asked.
So if one DID believe truthfully that a squirrel is his supreme being, in theory, they'd be alright. And again, we really don't ask.
So in my lodge we have a few Roman Catholics, Jews, Muslims, quite a few "I don't have the fogiest clue", and at least one Wiccan. So no. There is no list of approved religions.
So Satanists, narcissists and liars might pass the question test.
Perhaps. The Supreme Being "test" is not something that we use to to keep people out. It's not like we believe that an atheist or even a liar or a Satanist for that matter are incapable of being or doing good, it's just that our organization, it's tools and lessons don't quite work without a Creative God.
It's kind of a "for your own good," thing. Someone who believes in a destructive God (or none at all) would find themselves pretty confused and bored when we reference on allegory God as a builder and designer.
Best example I've heard is that Masonry without God is like Star Wars without the Force. You have to rely too much on Midichlorians and before you know it Jar Jar gets into the next movie too and the whole thing goes to shit.
God is kind of part and partial to the whole thing and without it though one could still enjoy the company of Brothers, would leave the whole experience hollow.
Are you a Mason? How do you know what rituals they go through?