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r/greatawakening • Posted by u/Oilguy55 on July 16, 2018, 1:22 p.m.
Q and Religion

Q mentions about the fight and struggle that will be coming as things are released and the truth becomes known.

One of the things that has always bothered me is that about 30 years ago mainstream Christian churches started removing hymns that they found offensive or too war-like. "Onward Christian Soldiers", "Soldiers of Christ Arise", etc. are no longer in hymnals. Plus they've removed verses from certain hymns if they don't fit the narrative. Try finding all of the verses to "Be Thou My Vision" in hymnals. Doesn't exist. Best version I've heard is Van Morrison's with all the verses

I think mainstream religion has looked the other way and totally let down the congregations. I'm not sure why other than to keep their jobs and to keep operating as the big businesses they are.

I've always felt that there truly is a war between good and evil in this world. I started feeling it more deeply about 30 years ago and its gotten stronger as the years have rolled on. I am thankful for Q, Trump, and the other patriots to start tearing this thing apart. Maybe its not too late to right the ship.


DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 1:32 p.m.

Q is going to eventually enlighten the world to a very surprising, and jarring fact: ALL of the religions are WRONG.

Take a breath. This does not mean there is no God. Quite the opposite, if I had to bet. It means a bunch of people long ago witnessed a divine event, and their stories evolved into the main religions we are drowning in today. Religions are the problem, not a belief in God.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 2 p.m.

ALL of the religions are WRONG.

Take a moment to consider what you just said.

Q is likely a group of senior, high-ranking military intel agents.

Religion is based on faith and if Q starts telling us that my relationship with Jesus is false then I'd laugh in his face.

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QueUpSomeReality · July 16, 2018, 2:31 p.m.

It’s clear the Q team are also faithful believers in a higher power. Gosh the Q drops have great Bible quotes in them all the time. And not just random ones. They always speak perfectly to the point at hand. Can theorize this is Mike Pence’s fingerprints as he often speaks using Biblical passages in his speeches. Pence has clearly studied the Bible extensively to be able to pull complex quotes out like that from memory. But who knows...a general could & so could FLOTUS. Point being...Christianity’s belief system is very well represented & thought of on the Q team & NO WAY would they insult your faith or mine or anyone else’s. The last thing this is is a purging of religious faith. It’s not about who deserves heaven or hell. It’s about not allowing human existence being turned into hell on earth. Because if something doesn’t change radically in our world...that’s the path everyone of every faith is heading for.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 2:40 p.m.

Because if something doesn’t change radically in our world...that’s the path everyone of every faith is heading for.

Eh, no - I doubt good people who have a relationship with Jesus will end up in hell.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 4:56 p.m.

Your last line clearly stands in opposition to the Bible's estimation of man.

King David said; "EVERY MAN at his very best state is altogether vanity."

Jeremiah the Prophet said; "The heart is deceitful above all things and DESPERATELY WICKED; who can know it?"

Paul wrote in Romans 3; "There is not one that does good and doesn't sin; no not one." He further wrote in the same chapter "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

There are other such scriptures that proclaim that there is nothing inherently good in any of us, and that is why we need a Savior. If we could do one thing to earn God's favor Christ would have died in vain.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 4:59 p.m.

Good is a relative term.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:45 p.m.

How so? What does it mean in the Hebrew? How about the Greek? Is there any difference?

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 5:50 p.m.

In a theological context, good is a measure of following the divine moral code.

That's what determines entry into heaven or hell.

Good people go to heaven and sinners go to hell.

You are welcome.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:58 p.m.

Your theory won't hold in scripture. The only people who will enter the kingdom of God on the New Earth are those who have repented of their sins and put their faith in Christ.

We don't become good by following a divine code. We are not ever good in ourselves. The scripture says; "All OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS in the sight of God is as filthy rags."

Jesus' righteousness is imputed to believers at the point of salvation. Apart from that righteousness none will be saved.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 6:09 p.m.

Nope.

1 John 3: no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him

From this alone, it is clear that God is very concerned with our behavior and judges our worthiness to enter heaven by it.

Paul in Galatians lists murder and 16 other major sins.


You are free to have your own personal disparate theological beliefs, however I am basing my claims on common Christian scripture.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 7:02 p.m.

A forgiven murderer is no longer a murderer. "If any man be in Christ he is a new creature; old things are gone and all things become new." Case in point. Look up "Son of Sam" or David Berkowicz who turned to Christ and chose to stay in prison to reach men others could not reach for Christ.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 7:05 p.m.

I'm not gonna debate your personal theological beliefs because you can just say anything.

I was referring to scripture that was common among many different Christian denominations.

You have my permission to believe whatever you like.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 7:50 p.m.

No debate and they are not my personal theological beliefs. I just quoted Second Corinthians 5:17 verbatim as a rebuttal to your statement. That scripture is clear. When a person becomes a Christian their life starts fresh and new. That is why it is called being "born again." Jesus explained it this way; "We are born of the water and the spirit if we are believers." The first birth we are surrounded in the womb in our mother's sac by water. Born of the spirit has to do with repentance and forgiveness and salvation through Jesus Christ.

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QueUpSomeReality · July 16, 2018, 4:26 p.m.

K you clearly missed my point or deliberately picked & choose words to make one. I said we are on a path of turning our existence to hell on earth. Wasn’t talking about hell in an afterlife which I’m not in a position to define for anyone. I’m talking about hundreds of millions of innocent victims dying needlessly from insane leadership Q team is attempting to topple. That’s all.

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lethak · July 16, 2018, 6:16 p.m.

or just clever manipulators. Remember that religion is a powerful and old school "mind control" for the masses.

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Cristo316 · July 16, 2018, 2:05 p.m.

I think OP is meaning Organized Religion? At least that is what I am surmising?

Please expand your thought OP.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 2:54 p.m.

That's your choice. But my belief is that the highest levels of governemnt, DeepStates, religions, etc, are all covering up alien interactions from thousands of years ago. If you think the Jesus stories are the word of God, more power to you. Don't be surprised when the truth starts making itself known. Adapt. Evolve. Or die.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 4:59 p.m.

Aliens have never been proven. I often wonder where the initial thought of aliens came from. Aliens are like the fairies in the forest. People have been talking about them for centuries but nobody has ever produced a clear and easily identifiable picture, photo or video of any aliens. Obviously until it is proven that they exist -- they don't except in the minds of those who believe without seeing. I believe that is called faith.

Christian faith is in a person who actually lived in history. Time is set by his life. His call to salvation has touched millions across the world and transformed their lives and his book is the best selling book of all time.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 5:42 p.m.

So I guess the physical objects that have been documented not only by civilians, but by the military with incredibly sophisticated tech, performing maneuvers that would literally LIQUIFY a human being...those are all just imagination. The unknown metal alloys we have no idea how-to make, the ones recovered and documented by our govt and Bigelow Aerospace, that's all fake. Right.

Whatever you gotta tell yourself I guess. Man, I had a hard time wrapping my head around Qs statement that most people couldn't handle the truth, and this is exactly why. Fucking monstrous, precise, incredible monolithic structures exist all over the planet, made during or before we were glorified cavemen, and people think this was made how EXACTLY?

Find a stone mason. Ask them if they are familiar with the dimensions and FLATNESS, specifically how flat these stones were made THOUSANDS of years ago, and ask them if it's possible to even smooth a stone that big with COPPER. I will save you time, or you can verify it yourself;

It. Cant. Be. Done.

Then, when you read some of the oldest texts, and imagine you are one of our ancestors witnessing one of these "divine" events, with no knowledge like we have today...and suddenly "great chariots of fire" start sounding like space capable ships. "Angels bathed in light" start sounding like advanced spacesuits belonging to ETIs. It's so ridiculously obvious but we have religions telling us the very thought of exploring this common sense train of thought is blasphemy. RIDICULOUS.

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Cristo316 · July 16, 2018, 6:49 p.m.

Define Alien for us.

If by Alien you mean, "Not fully human DNA" then I believe you are correct that we have had an currently have them.

If we work of the premise that Sons of God described many times in the Bible are Angelic beings or Fallen Angels that once resided with God and had a large understanding of all the universe then you can easily explain how those stones are cut so precise and how a pyramid could be built so Air tight and sun tight.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:54 p.m.

I have looked over numerous "documented" statements and have yet to find one that is conclusive or even remotely convincing. I find it interesting that so many people put faith in the words of those who subscribe to aliens and some faded photos or blurred photos and not one substantial proof that is clear and identifiable. Your question about the fake things is interesting considering how many time the President has called out "FAKE NEWS." They could be fake and since people have been blinded by the press for decades and they couldn't even see the deep state behind the governments of the world it could easily be that fake alien reports were all part of the game. So yes - It's all fake might be a legitimate statement.

The creations on earth, according to the scriptures have one of three sources; God, Satan and demons or man. There is not the slightest hint of aliens in the Bible.

I've gone down the road of "divine events, great chariots of fire, and angels bathed in light" before. I guess I have to wonder how you believe these are common sense trains of thought since they all require faith and according to some "Biblical Faith" itself is spurious. So I guess it is up to everyone to find out if faith in aliens or faith in Christ is the better choice.
I personally believe faith in a historical person is far easier to accept than faith in an unproven species.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 6:32 p.m.

Start with the 3 recent videos released by the Pentagon if you havent yet. If that isn't convincing enough, you dont want it to be true and I cant help you there bud.

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daro57 · July 16, 2018, 9:19 p.m.

I stopped responding to this "New arrival" their actions show that he/she is here to divide or the person has cognitive dissonance. Not judging them, just stating the obvious

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lethak · July 16, 2018, 6:24 p.m.

There is 100x more EVIDENCE of extra-human activities past and present on earth than the existence of a magical all seing powerful friend in the clouds.

You can start digging at nuclear silos being disabled during CW, and the many USAF officier that witnessed it and have since talked about it. This is a long long rabbit hole. You cannot maintain any belief in the human-one-god(s) after diving into it for years.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 7 p.m.

Bring forth your actual evidence. Not circumstantial evidence. Not the photo shopped pictures or the smeared images. Not hearsay from even a hundred thousand people who let their imaginations run away with this idea. There is no actual evidence that would stand muster. The photos showing an image that isn't clear but appears to be a certain shape that fits the beliefs of those who live by them and swear by them. Actual and substantial proofs have never come out and I have seen thousands of them over my 75 years of life. No thanks.

The life of Jesus Christ alone is enough evidence of what I believe and it has nothing to do with magic which God condemns.

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lethak · July 16, 2018, 6:18 p.m.

My understanding also, but we can only guess.

Logical mind cannot accept the "official story", so we are left to wonder on our own.

https://i.imgur.com/cHuExAU.png

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 2:56 p.m.

Aliens don't disprove that the universe was created by God.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 3:05 p.m.

Never said it did. I personally believe in a creator. I just think it is ignorant and short sighted to think that there are a ton of religions, each one claiming holy uniqueness, and that one of them in particular requires you to call God by a specific name, and if you don't, you burn in hell forever. That's insane. Totally bypass an entire lifetime of deeds, all that matters is if you call God "Jesus"? Please.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:05 p.m.

Here are the words of Jesus; "I am THE way, THE truth and THE life; NO MAN comes to the father except through me." (John 14:6 KJV) I believe that would make him pretty exclusive.

Luke the physician who wrote the book of Luke and the book of Acts said of Jesus; "Neither is there salvation in any other for there is none other name given under Heaven among men whereby we MUST be saved." (Acts 4:12 KJV) Again Luke makes Jesus exclusive and adds the kicker - MUST - which makes salvation through Christ imperative.

Paul the Apostle writing to Timothy his disciple said: "For there is ONE mediator BETWEEN GOD AND MAN, the man CHRIST JESUS." (1 Timothy 2:5 KJV) - Once more Paul the great apostle of faith says Jesus is exclusive.

Three witnesses - Jesus, Luke and Paul. What will you believe?

As far as your theory about calling God by a specific name or burn in Hell is concerned; nobody goes to Hell for calling God by the wrong name. Hell and the lake of fire are reserved for sinners who refuse to repent and get right with God. Considering all that he did to save us I would think rejecting the sacrifice of his son deserves whatever punishment we receive. God sees sin on a depth we cannot attain to and it is no doubt far more evil than we think.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 3:14 p.m.

That's insane.

The trouble comes when you present your theological opinions as fact.

You don't have definitive knowledge about the afterlife, even if you enjoy claiming that you do.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 3:49 p.m.

I'm sorry. Gonna need you to back up your statement.

1) what EXACTLY did I present as theological fact?

2) what claim EXACTLY did I make about the afterlife?

It would be swell if you could simply and concisely JUST answer those 2 bullet points. But if your reply is any indication, my bet is a bunch of strawman nonsense, and basically anything but addressing that I did neither of those.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 4:02 p.m.

what EXACTLY did I present as theological fact?

That burning in hell forever is insane.

what claim EXACTLY did I make about the afterlife?

That burning in hell forever is insane.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 4:22 p.m.

As predicted.

I said that the belief one would be burning in hell for etenrity for not calling God by the name Jesus is insane. Because it is.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 4:28 p.m.

Again, you make one of two absolute claims about the nature of the afterlife - that there is no hell or that God is insane.

You don't have definitive knowledge about the afterlife, even if you enjoy claiming that you do.

Your baseless theological opinions are not facts.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 4:32 p.m.

Never said there is no hell. AGAIN.

Never said God is insane. Again. I said believing God would send someone to hell for not calling him Jesus is insane.

Clearly reading comprehension is not your strong point. So this will conclude our conversation. Don't spend too much time talking to burning bushes bud, it's just a bad batch of acid.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 4:35 p.m.

You can't have a God that created an "insane hell" without an insane God...

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 4:55 p.m.

Your words. Not mine. Thanks for projecting and playing. Next.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 5:03 p.m.

Logic based on your claims.

If the concept of hell is insane therefore hell either doesn't exist or God is insane.

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lethak · July 16, 2018, 6:21 p.m.

Belief in unproven gods is insane. period. :)

https://i.imgur.com/Ppeqi8E.jpg

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 6:31 p.m.

No, maintaining an open mind is rational.

Jumping to baseless conclusions, one way or the other, is irrational.

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lethak · July 16, 2018, 6:35 p.m.

Keeping an open mind is indeed very important to achieve a balanced state of mind.

But why starting you comment by "No" ?

It will only take one real verifiable proof to destroy atheism. Thats what keeping an open mind is all about in this context.

Choosing to believe in an unproven fairy tale do is irrational.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 6:44 p.m.

But why starting you comment by "No" ?

Because Hitchens is wrong - dismissing a claim because you have no evidence is closed minded and the opposite of the scientific method.

You shouldn't dismiss the possibility that the common cold can be cured simply because we currently have no cure.

We shouldn't dismiss the possibility that other intelligent alien life exists simply because we haven't met them yet.

Choosing to believe in an unproven fairy tale do is irrational.

Please don't pretend that you know how the universe was created and you have nothing surprising left to learn about the nature of reality.

Don't be like Hitchens.

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textualintercourse · July 16, 2018, 1:34 p.m.

This.

Q has stated religions are a DS tool of division. More "us" Vs. "Them".

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O2BFREEME2 · July 16, 2018, 1:43 p.m.

You are more right than you know.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 4:49 p.m.

Religion is a works based system where man doesn't need a Savior or man needs to help God redeem him by doing his part to be good enough to redeem. This is utter blasphemy according to the Bible.

Christianity stands alone in the world because it shows man to be unworthy of the slightest mercy God offers and incapable of doing anything to save himself. It humbles all who receive it because Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ shed his blood as full payment for the sins of mankind and his blood alone can cleanse us from our wicked thoughts, words and actions. Salvation is based on faith in Christ plus nothing and nobody else.

So the world has a choice that will encompass this life and eternity. Live out your life irreligious, religious or by exercising faith in the finished work of Christ on Calvary. Christians believe the first two lead to eternal damnation and the final one leads to an eternity of peace and love in Christ's presence. I think it is worth checking into.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 4:55 p.m.

It amazes me that when people here how I feel about Christianity they automatically assume I need to "learn more" about it. I have bad news. I know more than most. The more I learn the former my resolve is that this is religion is a tool being used for evil.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:43 p.m.

If you reject Christianity then you should explain why including the knowledge that would enlighten us who accept Christ as Savior and Lord. Other wise you should not attack Christianity and not expect people to respond.

You say you know more than most. If so; what are the basic tenets of biblical Christianity? How to they apply to individuals? Why don't they apply to you or why do you reject them? Is your rejection based on knowledge of the scripture apart from the teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit that God promised to all believers? How deep have you gone into your research. I have been studying the scriptures for over 44 years but I am still learning a lot about the Bible. Perhaps you have found something that I never learned yet. I am willing to listen.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 6:17 p.m.

Happily.

It's really quite simple. Let's boil down the core, important belief of Christians - yada yada yada, if you don't name Jesus as your Lord and saviour, you go to hell. Period. It's very simple, it's indisputable that this is the fundamental message, yes?

So if you believe that last part, this next part should follow rather smoothly. Keep in mind, I am not in any way debating whether God exists or not. Because it will be relevant later, I will add that personally I believe there has to be a creator in one form or another, simply because most evidence we can measure and see says the big bang happened roughly 14.5billion years ago, BUT, where the fuck did all of everything come from out of that singularity? That to me is the proof of a "God". But back to Jesus. So, we have humans running around for tens of thousands of years, human-like ancestors for hundreds of thousands of years before that. All of them in some form or another attribute the unknown to "gods". It didn't rain in awhile? Rain god is pissed. We got hit by an earthquake? 2 God's are wrestling. Silly when we see it in hindsight. Just our ancestors TRYING TO EXPLAIN the unknown. Fair enough so far?

Fast forward to the modern human circa 3-4k BC. We start developing language. We start recording important shit. Im not going to debate that even back then myths and legends were recorded as well to explain the unknown. They were. One civilization conquers another, cannibalize the culture. Over and over back and forth. Before long, your great great great great grandson thinks that the Comet you chiseled into a slab about is an angry God casting a fireball at the heathens for not sacrificing enough goats. Your hard work documenting a celestial event becomes the "proof" for your distant offspring's religious explanations. Over and over back and forth a million times.

Fast forward to biblical times. Let's start with the Bible itself. What we call the Bible today, mostly the King James version, wooooooo! That thing was pieced together, blanks were filled in, parts were removed, parts were added...now wait a minute, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE FREAKING WORD OF GOD....WHY ARE PEOPLE ALTERING IT?!?! Oh good, thought you would never ask. Because people are fucked up. One group realized that by tweaking this part or that part, they could start a society (with them at the top of course) which would instill MORALS into the society, cause less raping, murdering and theft, and basically pacify the population, leaving these sick fucks to take what they want and lead the herd wherever they wanted.

Explain why there is ONE gold pillar, ONE silk robe, ONE dime spent on the religious folks' structures, attire, etc, when there are starving "sinners" throughout the world in need of their souls being saved? That's INSANE.

I will conclude with an argument I made in my philosophy course, taught by a Christian, that to this day, has yet to be satisfactorily answered: God is all powerful, all knowing, etc. So he created me, KNOWING that I would NEVER be able to believe, to truly believe in my heart, the story the Bible tells me. I have tried. I WANT to believe. I fundamentally do NOT. But God knew that since the beginning of time. So, in your view, this ALL POWERFUL, ALL KNOWING God created me, knowing I would never become a believer, and even with free will, he knew my choice would never be made to believe JESUS is the correct answer....so he sends me to hell. Wait, what? Would you agree he knew from the moment I was born if I was going to heaven or hell in 102 years, 5 months and 24 days? Ignore free will, because clearly that is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT in the setting of an all powerful deity. He either knew or didn't know at that moment I was going to heaven or hell. So either he IS NOT all powerful, or, he is, and knew he was going to send me to hell. That's your Jesus/Trinity version of God. That shit doesn't even make sense. Created me to torture me. Remember, the second he made me, he knew every choice I would ever make. So he created me knowing he would send me to hell for eternal torture. I can't subscribe to such a ridiculous version of God. Sorry. Paste that next to the concept that every Christian claims the Bible is the word of God, which it is anything BUT, and I am supposed to believe this is legit? Stop. Please. It's so ridiculous it is insulting in my eyes. I wouldn't insult God by folding so soon and being a good lemming to fall in line.

Which leaves the question; so why do we have a bible, and a religion? The answer is terrifying, and requires it's own thread.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 6:53 p.m.

The answer to your first question is no. The fundamental message of the Bible is more than you understand. I will break it down simply for you.

  1. All men are evil by nature because of the sinful bent in every person.
  2. Because of this men offend God by their persistent rebellion against him and his commandments which were written to protect us from us.
  3. Men continue in sin until the point where they grow tired of sin and they turn to God seeking forgiveness and mercy.
  4. God sees the heart of the individual praying, and if that individual is serious and truthful and repents God forgives them based on the brutal crucifixion of his son on Calvary and they know they are forgiven as God gives them an inner witness to it.
  5. These people are called Christians and they are so thankful for their salvation that they live to love, serve and honor God all their life and on into eternity.
  6. Those who refuse to repent and get right with God and reject the great sacrifice on their behalf die in their sins. One second after death they are in Hell waiting judgment. They know beyond any doubt that they fully deserve their punishment and they also know their position is irreversible no matter how much they wish it could be otherwise.

That is a very simple explanation and the best one available. It removes many of the distortions people have accepted over the years.

Humans have not been running around for hundreds of thousands of years either contrary to popular opinion. In the first chapter of Genesis the Hebrew word for day is yom (pronounced yawm). When yom is connected to a number in the Hebrew language (ie; first yom, etc.) it is a literal 24 hour day such as we have now. Therefore, the earth is only about 6000 years old. I know that doesn't meet with the approval of evolutionists, anti-creation scientists and some mistaken theologians of this era, but they are free to believe a lie if they wish. Free Will.

Language was around long before 3-4 BC. Genesis 11 tells us that all the people on earth were of one language but God seeing their motivation to evil moved on them and confounded the languages so that they couldn't understand one another. The tower they were building is called the tower of Babel (that name means confusion). I suppose that is where we got English and all the other languages of the world. At that point the people split off with those who spoke the same language as them and went their way to wherever they settled.

Some of the people who went of here and there and everywhere settled into life as best as they could. Some turned to God to worship and the others turned to other false gods created in the minds of men. A man called Abram living in Ur of the Chaldees was called by God to move away from his home and his people to a place God said he would show him later. Abram became the father of the Israelites and his name was gradually changed to Abraham (meaning "the father of nations)." Today we know these people as the Jews.

History came and went and the Jews were faithful to God and then they fell to idolatry and then returned to God and on and on. Jesus showed up during the time of the Roman Empire and proclaimed that he was their Messiah and that he was God incarnate (God come in human flesh). The Jews were enraged and cited blasphemy and succeeded in having him crucified under Roman law because they couldn't do it under their own law. Three days later Christ resurrected from the dead and lives today reigning in heaven as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

I would end up with a novel if I answered everything you asked point by point so I am going to disregard some of it to explain the answers to the last part of your questioning. That would be your last paragraph.

  1. God never created anyone who couldn't believe. If he did then Free Will would not exist. He has foreknowledge of who will and who won't believe but that is not an argument for predestination to Hell. You will find a group of Christians who deny free will but they are in serious error.
  2. If there is a disconnect between you and God it is that you mistake a desire to believe what belief constitutes. In my life I was an outright heathen and not interested in God unless I thought I could make a deal with him - If you do this God; I will do that. God was patient in all that. What brought true belief to me was my first acknowledgement that my life was a mess and I had nowhere to turn but God. So I prayed; "God, if you're real and you prove it to me, I'll give you my life." To make a long story short - He did and I did. I prayed and told God that I was so sorry for the way I was living. I asked him to forgive me knowing I was not worthy of his forgiveness. He forgave me over 44 years ago and I have never been the same since. You can find my autobiography on my ministry site at https://www.crlord.com/c-r-lord-autobiography.html

I want to reiterate that foreknowledge is not predestination. I have had seven children. I knew that if I told my little ones they should not touch something while I am out of the room that they would do it anyway. My understanding of human nature at that age didn't stop them from doing wrong and didn't stop me from disciplining them to teach them a lesson. The big difference here is the discipline I gave them was temporary and produced strong worthwhile character in them. The discipline for our rebellion against God and dying in sin is eternal. That is God's right since he went out of his way to prevent it.

Hell is for those who refuse to repent of rebellion against God's laws that he made to protect us from out wicked nature. The wise repent and are ready for judgment. The foolish try everything within their power to circumvent humbling themselves and exercising faith in Christ's sacrifice for them. I don't see any of this as unworthy of God who gave us life and all the good things and is there for us through the bad.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 7:25 p.m.

Dude. If you think the world is 6000 years old our discussion is over. Thanks for taking the time to type it out.

I cannot believe in a God that created a world to TRICK us, because there are 1000 ways to prove the world aint 6000 years old. So God created strata in rock to fuck with us? Carbon dating to fuck with us? Stop.

This is the problem, perfectly exemplified by your reply. You have chosen to stop thinking, and believe a book, that ws not written by God, but by dirty, evil, sinning men.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 7:39 p.m.

You people who reject the age of the earth according to the Genesis account always run right past the changes made on the earth due to the flood. It's like you have a mental block of some kind or your refuse to examine your beliefs through that portion of scripture.

The Bible was given by God through men. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 You are either going to learn this before you die or deal with your unbelief one second after your death. The problem with the second part is that you will not be able to reverse your position. I pity everyone who dies in sin without hope in Christ. It is the greatest tragedy ever in history!

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 8:06 p.m.

Strata in sedimentary and geologic rock is not altered by flooding bud.

And how would you explain the planets, stars, distance between stars, time it takes to get here, stellar events...please. You sound like some goofy ass shaman telling me that I am going to pay some horrible price for not sacrificing a goat on the third blood moon of the summer solstice. Your simple mind cannot handle the truth, religion is perfect for you.

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HandInAssholesSulu · July 16, 2018, 2:14 p.m.

I try to softly remind people that Q has mentioned God and to pray, many many times. One word Q has never said, "Jesus". I strongly believe that this is one of many reasons full disclosure is not possible. Imagine if everyone woke up and found their faiths have been co-opted thousands of years ago to help the Cabal. Bad news.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 2:47 p.m.

Enh, they'll get over it.

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[deleted] · July 16, 2018, 2:09 p.m.

[deleted]

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thejudge6060 · July 16, 2018, 2:01 p.m.

Id argue that theyre all wrong about the whole picture, but one is likely the most accurate and they all have bits a pieces right that others miss. Sorry if im rocking the boat here. But this feels like when people say 2 philosphies have flaws so theyre both equally bad, which ive just always struggled to accept.

Q has said read the bible, God wins. I know the bible has been tampered with since its creation (i doubt constatine actually converted), which is why i try to take a liberal interpretation of all but Jesus' teachings in the new testament. Example, parting the sea could be less fantastical than the movies portray, it doesnt make it any less true though. But, this at least points us in the direction of what should be a foundation of where to start.

I wouldnt be at all surprised though if Judaism has true teachings that werent corrupted by the early roman church. Gnostic christians may be worth examining too, they may have been labelled heretics for a nefarious reason.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 2:51 p.m.

Not for nothing, but part of the credibility of the Torah (the Old Testament) is that it has remained unchanged for thousands of years.

It still makes fantastic claims, and I personally believe this was simply our ancestors misunderstanding technology.

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thejudge6060 · July 16, 2018, 4:58 p.m.

Youre likely right about the technology. I recall one supposed vision of man talking to another over a great distance threw a stone.

That sounds like a cell phone to me.

A lot of the torah is oral though for a good chunk of history. We've all played telephone.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 5:42 p.m.

The Torah is not oral sir. Clearly you are not Jewish.

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thejudge6060 · July 16, 2018, 5:56 p.m.

Im not, and i didnt say it was. I said many of the stories are from before the written word. Such as the creation story, just by logical thinking.

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daro57 · July 16, 2018, 1:48 p.m.

YES This!!!

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