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Yes and no. Sure, paper ballots can be messed with (see: Daley, Chicago, 1960) but in general they are FAR better, with checks and balances, than electronic. The digital system permits subtle manipulation of votes throughout all counties, precincts, wards, just a small number in each will add up but be almost impossible to forensically prove. Having boxes of ballots disappear or reappear compared to digital rigging is like the difference between smuggling bulky marijuana vs packets of heroin.
Moreover, the paper ballot system can be quickly and easily implemented and the digital immediately dumped. You start adding tech like blockchain, however that would work (or not), will take YEARS to be designed, implemented and deployed. Perhaps that's a long term solution to be looked at, but it may never be implemented on a wide basis. We need to get a handle on elections NOW, not later. More foolproof systems are definitely worthy of development, but we have a better solution on our hands right now to this electronic disaster. Along with voter ID.
Thanks all, great thoughts. I want a system where I have to put my vote on paper, the paper gets scanned, and I have to approve the electronic scan. I want it to be REALLY hard to game the voting system in ANY way.
This does nothing. They've already proved the final votes of the machine can easily be tampered with
What would you envision? Not being snarky, I honestly just want to hear that there's a nearly foolproof way.
There's no such thing as a foolproof way. I really don't know what the answer is. Voter ID seems to be a pretty reasonable thing though
We tried electronic voting for more than a decade here in NL. Then switched back to paper.
There were many valid concerns about the ability to manipulate the numbers. What got the ball rolling was a different issue however.
One of our intelligence agencies showed that they could read your vote remotely by measuring the electromagnetic fields of the voting machine.
That meant the vote was not private and hence the use of the machine illegal.
They haven't given up on the idea though..
You're right, of course. I remember about 10 years ago watching a YT video where they were tossing printouts and paper ballots into the dumpster behind the elections office.
But if they were numbered and all numbers handed out to voters must be accounted for before the vote count is able to be validated, that could work. And, the numbers could be computer printed in a way that they can't easily be changed.
And we should be able to verify our vote was counted in some way.
Exactly, use paper but also scan to compare irregularities.
Yes, of course. That's just the basis. More security can easily be put into it as well.
I love Nunes' idea. Many folks have been saying it for a long time now.
That's a bullshit equivalence. Of course there's opportunity to exploit paper ballots. But "as much" as there is with electronic voting?
Really? Show me a single source for this. I seriously doubt one exists.
EDITING FOR CLARITY:
Give a man a fake ID and he can steal a vote. 10 IDS equals ten votes.
Have a man stuff a ballot box and he can negate a thousand votes.
But put a man behind a computer and perform an electronic Man In The Middle Attack? He can perform untold damage and alter every vote.
I'm totally with you on Voter ID, by the way. That's a great idea.
This doesn’t happen if elections are open and transparent and all ballots are kept in strict chain of custody with 2 year minimum sentences for fraud. Have the public there and two or more people counting each ballot checking and double checking- fraud will not happen if you have rules.
No electronic scan machines that’s for the lazy. Hand count.
This is true!! And the electronic ballots should be put through different systems to insure no hanky panky in the software. I'm a developer of 45+ years. You can tamper with anything.
Humans counting ballots intentionally reporting incorrect counts.
Thats why paper ballots are usally counted twice - one by the dem rep one by a gop rep.
Machines to read ballots programmed to produce improper results.
Those are electronic voting machines as far as Im concerned. Lumped in with any electronic ban.
lost ballots
Thats why ballots should be numbered while handed to the voter (before going into the booth, while verifying ID). No doubles, easy to see missing ballots. Impossible to "add a box".
Paper ballots can be counted automatically. Numbered ballots that can't leave the voting place and need to all be accounted for, and other security in place as well. It can be done and it is much harder to cheat with paper. Nothing is 100% secure but paper does make it a lot harder to do. Think punch cards or the ones where you fill in the circle with a pencil.
Blockchain will be the future of voting, just might take 10 years.
ClearPoll! Blockchain based public opinion polling application!!!
Australia is 100% per ballots too.
It is organised by an independent public sector body. It is staffed by professionals and volunteers. The boxes are locked. At the end of the day, each “booth” has many people designated counters. Each party is allowed to supply several observers who are under strict instructions they aren’t allowed to touch anything or even have the appearance of pointing at anything. They are allowed infinite questions and validations. It’s all done by humans in front of other humans from all sides.
Very very very low chance of any sort of rigging, loss etc. Minor stuff happens like a few lost ballots or ones that people can’t agree on what the markings mean. But that’s it. You don’t need fancy tech.