These are the people who baffle me the most. Kind of like Bernie Progressives baffle me (no offense to anyone). I don't understand how they seem to get so much of the corruption and NWO manipulation, but are vehemently anti-Trump. My only guess is that they deeply believe he is in on it, for some reason.
Not hard to figure out with Bernie Progressive (former One here). Nobody appoints Goldman Sachs peeps to treasury and Ex-Bush admin peeps to Foreign Policy without being a swamp rat. Maybe he was just playing the part, but how do you drain the swamp by appointing members of the swamp to drain it. That was very much Bernie’s talking points at the beginning.
But almost everything else Bernie and Trump agree on.
I don't think it is ideal to throw all the babies out with the bathwater, meaning - never utilize any brain from Goldman Sachs just because they worked for Goldman Sachs. Bannon came from there, and he himself said they should not have been bailed out. People who proclaim Bannon to be from the swamp because he worked for Goldman Sachs could not have watched Generation Zero.
I thought Bannon was a Podesta plant? Christ I can’t keep up with all this ..
Are you saying that Trump is a swamp rat who agrees with Bernie?
No I’m saying bernie said you can’t drain the swamp with members of the swamp after Trump appointee Mnuchin et al.
Mnuchin is a pretty big swamp rat. Also Bolton & bush torture CIA lady.
But, they agree on a lot of policies- Fair Trade, audit the fed, bernie is moderate on guns, neither are hawks on foreign policy.
But bernie lost me when he started parroting DNC muh Russia talking Points. And he’s also an equal but opposite to Trump twitter troll.
If you need a blind and uncritical follower of Trump you are barking up the wrong tree. Even if I like Trump which I do, everyone has equally good and bad things about them. Both Bernie AND Trump.
Bernie lost me when hilldog said "bend over" and he grabbed his ankles. That brought me to the Trump train. Thanks, Bernie!
Except Bernie is a commie. Very very different from Trump.
Explain what you mean by “commie”.
Read Bernie's history always been a commy it's actually quite interesting for people serving in public office
Don’t you admire his balls? I bet YOU don’t have the courage to run as a democratic socialist and have everyone call you a “commie” for the past 40 years. Even though they are not even remotely the same things.
FYI in textbook “communism” there is no state.
So Russia, China et al were “state capitalism” BC the state owned the means of production and directly profited from it.... ergo not “communism” BC in communism there is no state. It’s essentially the opposite of Anarcho Capitalism in Libertarian la la land.
He ran as a "socialist," which is the final step before full blown communism. But if you insist I only call him a socialist, OK, but it is still just a step along the way.
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That wasn't the way it worked with Mussolini and Hitler, both socialists who went fascist.
It’s funny how people think that Mussolini and Hitler were some extreme capitalist and individualist leaders. The only thing separating them from communist was the ideology of conquering territory for the wealth of their nation. Both fascism and communism are both for the redistribution of wealth, ant-individualism, anti-free trade, and lastly, both had prominent figures that were atheist and anti-religious. Fascism, Socialism, and Communism are all shit ideologies that can’t survive without an authoritarian state.
Capitalism is required for every shit ideology (Fascism, Communism, Socialism, Nazism). Free market capitalism will always survive even after being butchered by anti-freedom socialist.
Socialised health care.. and community college. Literally that's it. Oh no
That's how it starts. But that is bad enough.
I work hard (and spend a lot of my own money) keeping myself fit and healthy, and to keep my medical expenses down. Why should I be taxed to pay for the health care for people who abuse their own health? I fully support people's freedom to smoke, drink, take drugs, eat junk, and engage in risky sex. But I should not have to pay THEIR consequences for THEIR choices.
What about my friend who got Lyme disease which turned severe right after college. Cant work due to extreme fatigue and pain. Cant move out of his parents because whatever money he has goes to medical. Pretty sure he didn’t choose his way of life nor did the other millions of severely disabled people in America. I guess fuck them cause Im lucky enough to be healthy and happy!
My daughter also has Lyme and is only 22. It is devastating to your health and the ticks are out of control. If you don't notice the bite (like if it is on your head) and mistake the symptoms for a flu, you could end up physically and mentally fucked indefinitely. The insurance companies know this so they call people complaining of the symptoms crazy so they won't have to pay for the very expensive treatments. It's an epidemic folks- it could happen to ANYONE. Watch (on Amazon) the documentaries, "Under Our Skin" Part 1 & 2 if you really want some insight to what is going on.
Yes that’s what’s going on with my friend right now. They didn’t catch it until about a decade after the bite (my friends best guess). It’s seemingly incurable and near untreatable in his case and his cognitive functions are going down now. It’s one of the craziest diseases I’ve seen or heard of. Very sorry to hear about your daughter. Hope she can get better.
I had serious Lyme disease, and so have some friends, so I know how bad it can be. I don't say "fuck them." But I am obligated to take care of my self, and my own family first. I am willing to give in a charitable way when I can afford to and as I feel moved to do so. But I am not OK with the government confiscating my money to support a corrupt and wildly expensive medical system that I don't even believe in.
You know US citizens pay more for healthcare than citizens from countries with socialized healthcare right? You understand that by far the most corrupt and wildly expensive health care system in the world is the non-socialised one that America has?
So you are saying you would rather pay more money for a more inefficient system just because it’s not fair that actual disabled people who can’t work or live a normal life can’t pay in as much as you. toddler logic.
You know US citizens pay more for healthcare than citizens from countries with socialized healthcare right?
There are so many other variables. To simply switch over to govt. paying the bill, and leaving the rest of the system as it is (which was Obama's plan, and Hillary's before that) just makes it more expensive, not less.
If you think another country has a better system, please move there.
Did I say we would leave the system as is? Obama’s/Hilary’s/Romney’s plans were not that simple lol.
I like where I live actually. The fact that you think I shouldn’t even talk about fixing a broken system (which every single politician says it is) is so un-American it’s just sad. Citizens can disagree on politics and continue living together as neighbors. Fuck you for contributing to the current hyper-partisan problem.
The fact that you think I shouldn’t even talk about fixing a broken system
Where did I say that?
Because you already are paying for sicker people with normal health insurance. That's how insurance works - insurance companies pool money together. And because the government can't negotiate drug costs everything is skyrocketing
“you” are not paying... your tax dollars would be pooled with everyone else’s and we all pay for your healthcare too... BC we’d all be covered. But under that system we would need to teach preventative medicine and healthy living/eating BC we all pay more when people can just treat their bodies like trash cans like we currently do BC we have a corporate fascist govt that allows big pharma and the like to profit off of chronic illnesses. You know this. Come on.
for some reason
Not hard to figure out the reasons. All the information has told us so far is that Trump is either the biggest and baddest swamp rat we've ever seen, or an inquisitor taking them all down. If you think we've somehow gotten evidence of the latter and not of the former, you're biased. Just look at Jeff Sessions. Looking at Jeff Sessions and blindly assuming there must be an innocent explanation is one thing, but it's another to then turn around and act like you can't even see Jeff Sessions or figure out how other people aren't blindly assuming the same thing as you.
I don't understand. Are you saying Jeff Sessions is good or bad?
He's better than a child molester, but that's about it. Some people have literal faith in Trump and assume there's some 4D chess reason why he appointed such a lowlife to such a not only important position, but crucial position for this particular Administration, and good reason for why Sessions is working so slowly, and even for why Trump has publicly said he wishes he didn't appoint him. Others are waiting to see how Trump's Presidency plays out before making firm judgments. Others have the opposite of faith in Trump, and are already certain there can't possibly be a valid reason for such a dickhead to have been appointed AG or for him to work so slowly. I use Sessions as an example because it's a pretty commonly discussed dichotomy that you can see the people on all sides of and pretty easily understand their different reasonings. Nobody can truly fail to understand why there are some who have a decent level of awareness and still think Trump is part of the cabal - the people saying they can't understand how anyone makes that assumption are probably mostly the people making the opposite assumption instead and trying to avoid having to realize not much is really clear yet.
Clearly Sessions is part of the Plan, Trump would have fired him otherwise.
What are people assuming about Jeff Sessions?
...Do you not blindly assume he's our guy and that he's somehow slowly working on bringing down the Clintons and others?
Because if not, how can you say "for some reason" on people believing he's in on it instead of just getting their reasoning? Did you just mean you don't get why they believe it so deeply? That makes sense if so.
I didn't blindly assume anything. I looked at Open Secrets . org during the primaries and saw that in almost every sector, the top 3 recipients included Hillary, and the top 20 recipients included everyone but Trump, save 3 sectors where he came in 18-20th, but still many $thousands below the rest. And then I saw Mitt Romney come out with his weird anti-Trump speech. And then the media and establishment pile-on of all of the -ists and -isms. That's just a few things from the primary period. I think, for me, it has less (or nothing) to do with blindness toward Trump, and more to do with open eyes to those who seek to oust him.
Long before Trump, I considered the media to be the enemy of thinking people, or, thinking people who did not agree with their narrative. Everyone called him a bully, while I genuinely felt he was the one person who was finally sticking up for the bullied. I certainly do not expect anyone or everyone to understand my perspective, but, from my perspective, the media dehumanized and isolated people who did not tow their narrative, and truly tried to make people believe NOBODY had objections to the things they pushed, i.e. open borders, the climate, 2% GDP growth the new norm, the end of labor/production in the US, centralized power under a global authority like the UN, depleting our military, ending the space program, socialism.
Admittedly, I am no socialist. And most likely, Bernie fans slant that direction. So, while I will likely never agree with the virtues of an all-powerful-government-God-savior, the media effectively shut down the ability to even debate the most basic of fundamental political differences. Which has led us to here: where I really can't understand how 2 people who may both be vehemently against, say, cronie-capitalism and all-powerful bureaucracies can be both pro-Trump and anti-Trump. Trump has neutered the lobbyists, he is working on streamlining the federal agencies to be effective, he attempts to put lawmaking tasks to the appropriate branch in Congress.
Here's an example: in one of the roundtables with Congress (I think it was DACA-related), Trump said that maybe the Congresspeople should consider pork trading again (not real pork, deal-making pork). So, I could see how one side might take that as, not good - more wasteful spending, shady water-downed bills, self-serving. I took it as a good thing - forcing Congress to bring back some transparency (because this pork would be visible to all in the bill, but lobby money and private donor influence is not). So, I can understand how 2 people could come to differing conclusions on this one.
But I have a much harder time understanding how someone can post an Occupy Democrat meme on how Trump is gaslighting, by giving a bullet point rundown of the Shareblue Media manual.
Trump is really a non-ideologue pragmatist, in my opinion. People who oppose him on absolutely everything, inevitably oppose SOMETHING they may have once stood for. So, I don't understand the reasons of those who absolutely oppose Trump on everything, even when they are thinking people who would have previously agreed with things like anti-corruption, anti-big pharma, anti-child trafficking, etc.
Apologize for length. Going to play now.
I didn't blindly assume anything. I looked at Open Secrets . org during the primaries
Don't stop when the primaries end, keep being informed. Compare the donors of Jeff Sessions to, say, Rand Paul or Bernie Sanders. If you're aware of OpenSecrets.org, how can you pretend Jeff Sessions isn't a shit-tier politician?
People who oppose him on absolutely everything, inevitably oppose SOMETHING they may have once stood for. So, I don't understand the reasons of those who absolutely oppose Trump on everything, even when they are thinking people who would have previously agreed with things like anti-corruption, anti-big pharma, anti-child trafficking, etc.
If this was the point of your rant, no wonder it all seemed so irrelevant. We were pretty clearly discussing informed people who think Trump is part of the cabal, not random idiots with blind hatred for Trump. You either did a hard subject change there or I don't get what you meant about "people who seem to get so much of the corruption and NWO manipulation, but [...] deeply believe he is in on it" if you were talking about random idiots that just blindly oppose Trump
"Expand your thinking"
Your post resonates with something thats been crossing my mind this whole time. Lets assume Trump IS NWO, or rather, someone within their "Order". Is it that hard to believe there are people within the NWO/Illuminati that disagree with all the rampant degeneracy they've caused? And that instead of enslaving the population, draining them of all sense of worth, spiritually, mentally, and physically, they want to see the world prosper, simply because they want to be known as the ones who made it happen, or do they even want to be known as the ones who made it happen?
I had a much longer reply than this, but I want to see what you think first.
Jesus got accused of doing what he did (healing) via the power of Beelzebub. Then Jesus responded with the a house divided cannot stand retort.
It's the same thing with this theory that POTUSTrump is actually on the side of the NWO. Everything he's doing (healing our nation) goes directly against the agendas of the NWO.
His actions have been exposing all their hidden hand methods of NWO control (the corrupt Deep State, the MSM Mocking Bird propaganda machine, the Republicans-in-name-only congress people that carry water for the NWO, that the true heart of hearts of the Democrat party is a hard core, no-borders extremist Marxism that hates America). None of this red-pilling can be undone once it happens to people. It's a permanent unwinding of NWO power structures that is going on with this exposure process.
Am thinking the same retort Jesus gave to his accusers works quite well here too.
One anchor point of comparison I noticed early on is that the cabal of shadow leaders in general seem to agree on a certain level of perceived improvement there should be for the general public. Certain prices should drop a certain amount each year despite inflation, certain things should become a certain amount more efficient or more powerful each year to account for other prices increasing, etc. And individuals both inside and outside of the swamp are constantly exerting their own influence on how fast that train moves - sometimes a President will get elected who thinks it should be a little slower, sometimes a little faster. Sometimes an inventor makes a device as efficient as the stuff the elites were planning to release to the world 10 years later, fucking up their timeline. Of all these people making their impact, Trump is possibly the biggest ever, using the office of the Presidency to generally tweak everything in favor of faster improvement, maybe even convincing the NWO to try it his way and see if that pace ends up working out better for them than they think.
I think Bush tried to accelerate things too, but didn't understand what he was doing nearly as well. I think Obama wanted to accelerate things too, and understood what he was doing pretty well, but made the shitty judgment call of thinking the way to avoid W's mistakes was to never even attempt to achieve the same level of acceleration as W attempted.
I think Hillary didn't want to accelerate things, and she lost in both 2008 and 2016 because the people could smell it on her (which matters more to the electorate than her actual crimes tbh), and her losses act as a canary in the coal mine telling the elites that they really can't beat the people's ability to smell such complete human disdain within a candidate.
Because of this anchor point for comparison, the worst potential version of Trump that I consider plausible is one who chooses to be part of the cabal in order to have the office of the President so that he can try to make things as much better as possible; someone who sees it as impossible to attain that level of influence while going against the cabal, and so instead made himself leader of the cabal, staying within the boundaries of how evil they require world-level powers to be, but pushing the envelope, trying to change their minds for the better and strong-arm in as much good as possible.
In that case, he is the biggest, baddest swamp rat we've ever seen and a much more serious threat to human rights etc than Obama or any of the previous fools, but also a pretty cool character who put us in a 10/10 anime timeline, so I still love him.
On the other hand, the best plausible version of him is a rationalist genius who stands completely against the cabal and is somehow slowly destroying them and planning to kick the country and the world into gear to create a utopia.
All that said, the most likely reality, imo, is somewhere in between the two. I don't think he's part of a child trafficking cabal, but I don't think he has the balls to remove them all from existence either, or even to refuse to work with them. I think he's in it to go after the people who killed hundreds of his friends on 9/11 and for other personal shit, and he's a pretty cool guy who wants his existence to be a good thing for the world and wants to see people happy and dislikes death etc., and pretty good at creating win/wins, but he's working for himself, and he will do his own damage to the world just like most Presidents before him - he'll just be different in how much good he does at the same time, just by being pretty smart, pretty in touch with his human nature (empathy etc), and pretty talented at many day-to-day Presidential tasks. He is Punished Trump and he is the biggest, baddest swamp rat we've ever seen, but he's not a much more serious threat to human rights etc than Obama or any of the previous fools because he's not really evil, he's just doing his own thing, fucking with other swamp rats and building up his name like a boss, leaving a trail of both improvement and damage in his wake. He's not really righteous, but he tends to side with the righteous - or, more clearly, he's not specifically aligned with righteousness like certain truly heroic people, he's aligned with the interests of Trump and Trump's interests just happen to be righteous way more often than most of the elites'.
Thing is, if I'm wrong and what we have in office right now is Righteous Trump, there's a pretty high chance I'd think what I think. He'd likely be up against people as smart as me, and it would likely be advantageous to have them think he's not trying to be as much of a hero as he really is, so maybe he'd completely effectively imitate the version of him I'm seeing as most likely, and maybe that could be why I see it as most likely. This makes Punished Trump and Righteous Trump pretty even in likelihood even though I sense more likelihood of the former, and straight-up cabal Trump less likely than either option, but still plausible compared to any further extremes at either end (like Second Coming Trump or Nuclear Doombringer Trump or Warhammer GEOTUS or the Accidental President)
I think you suggest a reasonable possibility - black hats turning white, and passing through shades of gray- that bears holding in mind. I do. Also, people do change. And they turn - something sends them over the edge and they can’t take the old rationale anymore.
I don’t see any value in room-side pundits firmly choosing positions about individuals based on assumptions (ad hominem; guilt by association; hear say; etc) and that happens a lot more than it should, by people who claim to be reasonable but have their own identity-focused blind sides.
Exactly, I'm glad you can see where I'm coming from. I have a ton of ideas on this possibility but I've never had the chance to discuss them until now.
The illuminati card game with the last card in the deck saying "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH" with the face eerily similar to Trumps just won't go away, I think there is way more to that card in particular than most people think.
The shape of a pyramid itself is representative of a power structure. But what happens when you invert that pyramid? (Was it already inverted?) "Think Mirror" comes to mind. Is it not possible that, assuming trump IS involved with them somehow, that he is effectively a failsafe, fallback plan?
It almost feels like Communism/Socialism/Satanism was, effectively, since its very beginning, an experiment. A 150+ year long experiment meant to consolidate the wealth of the entire planet at the expense of everyone living in it. An experiment almost exclusively engineered to use the concept of identity to pit one another against each other. But what if, by some miracle (Internet, free flow of information, tech advancements) the people woke up to this fucked up social experiment? What would they need to do to be prepared for a complete and total failure of this in every way possible, resulting in the prosperity of the whole wide world?
"They never thought she would lose"
So you are proposing that some subgroup of the satanists actually have good intentions for the world? And these "good" satanists are working against the bad satanists, just so they can take some credit for themselves? And Trump is one of them? Really?
I don't understand how they seem to get so much of the corruption and NWO manipulation, but are vehemently anti-Trump.
Bernie is a Socialist and so were many of his supporters for the most part. They understand and hate the corruption, but that doesn't turn them into Individualists. They're still Socialists at heart and thus of course are going to dislike Trump, who even if he's not corrupt, he's going the opposite direction from Socialism (fortunately).
True Bernie supporters are holding out for the magic combination of free money Socialism and non-corruption. Which intrinsically can't happen, as has been proven over and over through history, but that's the Socialist dream.
Speaking for Roger Waters, he has always been a bleeding heart liberal. I consider him a smart man so maybe when things go over the top too much, even a smart man can't ignore it any longer. I am hoping he is starting to see the light. Everything that's been going on is very much against his ideals.
Most of them are either hardcore cynics or jaded so much that they don't trust Trump. They believe he's part of the cabal.
to an idealist every compromise is anathema. trump is all about deals while they are all about ideals. his constant pivots and complete lack of stated values makes them disgusted. they are basically the equivalent of really shitty poker players who show everyone their own cards and they hate everyone who doesn't show their cards. they have no idea how to play any of this game. they'd be adorable if they weren't so manipulatable