There's a similar thread here:
>>29
Hey mods, is it okay if I Post a whole song onto the board? Its a little long and my computer is not letting me attach files. However it is an edited version of a very obscure poem, The Song of the Sun, so I think it has value in being posted.
Related to this thread >>5081
UPDATE:
I absolutely loved it and since then saw one other Opera, which was also great. Of course the focus was on Christian imagery and the only Heathen in the piece was, sorta, the villain. But that that didn't bother me since the music was great.
A few weeks later I also found out that the saga of Lohengrin is based on the older Saga of "Skeaf", who as a baby boy naked and with all sorts of goods, weapons and jewelry landed alone in a boat on a coast. People found him and saw his high nature. They thought he was sent by a god and eventually elected him to be the first king of the Angles. His son was called Skild and was a popular prince. He owever long was without a son, but as he was old his son Beowulf was born. As the old king died, his people put his body on a gorgeous boat, together with loads of weapons and jewels. Then they let the boat into the sea and let the floods control its course.
I've wondered about this too, and although I'm not personally a fan of metal I think it would honestly. Some bands like Tyr endeavor to make the lyrics somewhat spiritual and the whole idea is spiritual in a way; using guitars powered by Thor, drumming and singing, the whole thing can be seen as offering to the gods in musical form
Viking Metal is not a real genre it is usually folk/Black metal with viking lyrics. But I would not see the problem with it being asatru considering how it sings the glory of our ancestors. Anyone who says otherwise is a contrarian faggot. Metal is as masculine as you can get music wise. Ibn Fadlahn said that the Kievan Rus' singing were like dogs barking. So maybe they growled IDK or something close to it. Does not matter Galdr is a form of magic Germanics used it was a chant to be sung. It is a musical magic.
Folk metal or "Viking metal" can be seen as a form of Galdr especially if you get into Burzum and read or watch Varg. His music can be seen as Galdr magic.
I have a few questions, so bear with me.
1: Can non-whites legitimately be Asatruar? Why/why not?
2: If only a member of the specific culture can worship the particular pantheon (i.e., Greek worships Greek Gods, etc), what happens in the instance where a culture has next to no information on its gods, like the French?
3: If race doesn't matter, how is it logically sound that an African or non-white Hispanic be an Asatruar instead of something from their own hertiage?
4: Is Varg Vikernes a reliable source of information?
5: Is there any supplemental material on galdr?
6: What is the difference between galdr and seidr/does Varg get it right in one of his videos?
7: What is the general consensus here on Gnosticism/Hermeticism?
To give you an idea of my background, I'm from /n/, /tg/, /v/, /his/ and I've recently begun to lurk /fringe/.
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Absolutely not. Asatru isn't just a religion; its a cultural heritage and identity. For someone to claim to be Asatruar but be non-White is equivalent to pretending. They don't have their ancestors standing behind them (and ancestors are big in Asatru) or the history and culture; its a middle finger to the actual Asatruars with history, and its playing pretend; not to mention they're snubbing their own culture and heritage. They're basically religious weeaboos
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Most nations today fell under larger ethnic denominations back when paganism was alive and well. French people are either Gauls or maybe Germanic; those religions are where they'd turn.
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see question 1
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Usually, yes.
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I don't have any. Look through the catalog. Do research. We're big on research here
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Galdr is rune magic; seidr is drug magic. Seidr is also a womanly practice, and there's a thread in the catalog discussing seidr in more detail. Varg was pretty accurate in his video on it.
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Not really of any interest to me.
Lurk the threads, read through the sources in the sticky.
im not sure about that specific design but i believe "triskelion" or "triskele" means "three legged" so you should find more using those
the number three seems to be important to some extent with the celts so the celtic spiral symbol nearly always has three legs
The pine tree wastes which is perched on the hill,
nor bark nor needles shelter it;
such is the man whom none doth love;
why should he linger in life?
Go out and make some friends man, ugliness does not matter if you present yourself well. Make friends first, if you're an ugly single dude with no friends girls will always find you creepy. Women are attracted to status and alpha behavior and a part of that is having friends, even having 2 or 3 really close friends will show you are loyal
To his friend a man should bear him as friend,
and gift for gift bestow,
laughter for laughter let him exchange,
but leasing pay for a lie.
This is kind of related in a roundabout way. You should make friends at work and pick up a few hobbies like shooting were you'll meet other cool dudes and have something to give them more than just your company.
If your ugliness isn't stemming from your face then lose weight and make yourself proud of your body. If your body is fine but your a bit ugly it shouldn't matter too much.
Here i suggest you do this Personality test and learn more about yourself.
http://www.16personalities.com/free-personality-test
I'm a personality type that is introverted and logical. I don't really need human interaction as much as some personalities do. So i usually only had one best friend at a time who i saw outside of school to either play videogames or Music with. But i now have no friends because I'm not interested in playing music anymore and my old Friend isn't red pilled and would probably have a shit fit if i said nigger, that and he smokes weed occasionally and i went to his house after not seeing him for ages and he had a fat wiccan girlfriend. I would rather have no GF than that monster.
I'm sure ill find a new best friend at some point though but a GF is harder as I lack experience.
The thing that you need if your calling yourself a loser is confidence, get that and you should get friends and a girlfriend easier.
I work out, started dieting recently and I'm learning a second language, little things like that help with confidence and make you feel like your accomplishing something.
I'll also add that seiðr is womanly because it is the practice of carrying on traditions, which women are responsible for as mothers. This is why for example, in modern Swedish the word sed means basically the same thing, of a society wide cultural tradition.
The triskelion is probably the same meaning of the valknut. Time is an illusion that we need to understand the world, but in reality everything happens at once in eternity. The valknut is three triangles interwoven of past, present, and future, to create eternity.
Valhöll is just a description of the burial mound, your seat in valhalla is your burial seat, buried with other great men and deities. Gods are simply descriptions of good forces to be impersonated, which is also why the term god comes from góði which just means good. You cannot draw honour, but you can draw someone doing an honourable deed.
>>7416
Thank you for the response, but I'm still confused. Do you believe in objective truth or not? How could the Germanic gods be true for the Germanic people, while the (for example) Hindu gods are true for the Indian people? I could understand this being logical if you said that the Germanic gods are simply non-literal archetypes which are compatible with the Germanic race/culture, while the Indian gods are better (non-literal) representations of the Indian "race-spirit" but if I understand correctly you say that your gods are both literally true as well as race-specific.
>>7471
So you, as a Norse pagan, believe that the gods of India are real, but you don't worship them because they aren't associated with your ancestors? Do Norse gods ever interact with Indian ones? If both pantheons are true, why do people only worship small chunks of the thousands of gods/goddesses based on race? Would you say that the God of Abraham is real too? In that case, would you say that the Bible or Qur'an are true scriptures and descriptions of (one) God and his will?
>>7479
Ah. So you would say that you and Hindus worship some of the same literal cosmological entities, but with different names and different cultural archetypes imposed on them by your respective cultures? You believe in an objective truth, however you believe that man's attempt to know the Divine Mystery can take many different semi-successful equally valid forms? If the God of the Jews is real, how do you explain his claim of being the only God? Is he simply lying? Would you say that Yhwh's claim of exclusivity is "real to the Jewish people, but not to others"? Why are Christianity and Islam not given the same treatment as pagan religions? Christianity may have begun in the middle east, but it certainly reflects western values and culture even though it was not the original religion of the area. In fact, I would argue that Christianity has had a greater effect on most western cultures than paganism has, so someone who wants to worship the god(s) which best represent their nation would find that in Christianity. Similarly, Arab culture is literally 100% based around Islam. Should an Arab really worship the pre-Islamic gods whose "nation-spirit" is probably very foreign to him?
>>7485
So you say that any culture's attempt to understand the gods is valid, but Christianity's and Islam's are not valid because the group that practices them covers multiple culture groups, and isn't linked to one particular race/culture? Why does that invalidate them? Why the obsession with race? Can't a multicultural group of people with a shared faith come closer to understanding God(s) regardless of their race? Is there some kind of supernatural element to race that I'm missing here? I believe that race is simply genetic differences in body structure, and culture is a mundane thing; does heathenism say it's more than that? Also, are non PIE religions "valid"? What about the gods of China? Japan? Native America? The Pacific? Africa? Their gods don't fit in with the archetypes and patterns present in European and Indian pantheons, so would you say that their attempt at comprehending the unknowable nature of the gods is simply less successful than yours is? Or do the literal cosmological entities in reality have no definable characteristics by man? For example, the entity which asatruers call Thor wields a hammer and controls lightning. Could a native American religion, for example, believe that that same entity is a woman who carries a staff and causes earthquakes, and would both of them be equally valid apprehensions of that entity's nature? Does the entity known as Thor actually have a gender, a preferred weapon, and a natural phenomenon or is he simply an unknowable spirit who accepts whatever cultural values are imposed on him?
Does anyone have reliable info on galdr? I've read about it in a few contemporary rune books that have lyrics for "runic chants" that basically are just pronouncing the letter in multiple ways but I don't see anything in the lore that seems to state this. In the havamal and the spells of groa, it appears to more of an actual chant with incantations and words and not just mumbling letters.
if anyone has any reliable info on the chants called galdr please let me know
It seems to me that so much about Asatru is connected to the land.
But not only do I live on a different continent from my ancestors, I also live in a massive city. I am quite removed from nature. How can I feel any connection to the gods of my ancestors?
My family is almost all european, besides a grandparent that is half european half native american, I allways felt that Christianity was not for me, they only managed to manipulate me and put fear. I did find in paganism the peace I wanted, and also it feels that it is what I was looking for. How should I proceed? I am thinking about marring with a woman from a light mixed family as mine, because I don't want to break an pure family as they did with my own. I would like to get some light on what people in my situation should do.
There are, of course exceptions. What does one do with homosexuals? With drug abusers? With illegal immigrants?
We love our Nations, our Gods and our Peoples. Thereby a faithful of the Gods will work towards the healthy benefit of our Peoples, Nations and Gods. It is simply as "moral" as Christianity was/is
May wisdom come to you
It's easier for me to understand Paganism this way, through Christianity.
I stay away from sin because i love God, i do fasting, prayer, whatever. It gives me meaning to do this, otherwise why should i not go drinking, stealing, raping and killing?
The existance of a God also makes you not have a huge ego. For example, new agers have this huge ego about themselves; "im enlightened, im full of peace, love and joy". If we strive towards peace and joy for the sake of someone else, be it our ancestors or a God, it give motivation and a whole different meaning.
Our ancestors became Christian in a similar way. We understood the values in monogamy, virtue, heritage, respect and in fact Hero worship.
Note that in Catholicism we have saint worship, such as saint George. Otherwise known as Hero worship, and in European heathenism dragon slaying is a common motif. People can claim that Heathens were immoral or unjust. In Reality most European peoples dealt with Homosexuals accordingly: Death. With adulterers: Shame and/or exile. In Heathenism we stay away from Sin not only because it is unnatural and degenerative, but also because Heathenism is a trade off. Not a cheap buy in scheme to renounce sin instantly, to receive good gifts in life and in death, one must act nobly and with good intent at heart. That does mean being a cuck, it's more similar to buying from a white owned grocery store instead of an Indians store and helping your neighbours
We do not have a huge ego, I can assure you. Heathens are in fact most often devout and believe firmly once they get in to it
The European faith is, in a massive way about Values, Virtues, Tradition, Community, Celebration. It's where Patron gods come from too
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_Regius
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saga#Background
The skaldic poetry and tales of heroes were passed down and preserved in Christian times through an oral tradition which were eventually written down by monks.
While they were not written down by practicioners there is a chain of heritage which goes back to pre-Christian Scandinavia.
I don't know of any reliable historical sources for information on Druidism. Caesar wrote something on the Gauls and the Druid's place in their society but it's widely regarded as bad scholarship. It's very likely that he made things up or distorted the truth so he could get more support for his conquests.
Is there any good moderate Asatru organization in the US?
I think the schism between folkish and universalist Asatru is killing us. I am right in the middle–I believe race and sexuality and such are non-issues. I don't care about those attributes–I judge a person blindly according to their skills and moral character–but I believe it's each individual's job to handle any negative shit other people give them for who they are. None of this heathens against hate bullshit, if you can't handle other people's ridicule, you're weak and I'm not going to help make society coddle you.
Is there an organization in the US with an outlook along those lines? Everything I've seen is either fuck-non-whites folkish or heathens-against-hate universalist, it's either one extreme or the other.
Asatru Folk Assembly is Folkish (but not skinhead whitepower 88 gas the kikes).
Most non-folkish groups stand for nothing and are rife with sjw larpers inspired by the Thor movie.
I have had no interaction with members of The Troth but I have begun reading Our Troth volume one and it seems ok thus far, the articles on archeology, linguistics, discovery and revival are pretty interesting. Dissects aryan culture pretty well and juxtaposes aryan cultural theories with indigenous ones (apparently the Germanic cultures were less directly effected by aryan culture so possess unique primordial European traits).
The Troth split from the Asatru Alliance when they got their feeling hurt by some members who thought it really ought be for those with blood connections to the ancient practioners.
>>8392
Not the guy you were replying to but I wonder the same thing.
I never really watched a lot of porn until I was deployed to Afghanistan. I hit the point where I watched porn when I woke up and went to be bed. Sometimes fairly vanilla stuff and sometimes anal creampie swapping gangbangs.
Was that degenerate?
Should I have just abstained for >6 months?
>be burgerstani
>be given feather indian first name and hebrew middle name
>ask mom why I wasn't named something from our own tradition and race
>"because it sounded nice and strong :^)'
>mfw
Would it be disrespect to change my name aat some point or should I let it roll off?
I posted in another thread that if your parents named you something cucked a good compromise is to have your kinship rename you. I think you lose some of the magic of being named if you do it yourself and it cuts some of the larp factor (MY NAME IS GRIMNIR THUNDERAXE!!).
It just seems wholesome and right to have somebody else name you, but obviously your parents failed at that duty.
Ironically, the south is where most of the heathens worth being around are. Northern american kinships are your typical #HeathensAgainstHate eclectic fuckery by-and-large. Have you tried looking on the kinship maps for ones around your area and showing up? Most of them are less-than-informed on most of our faith, or the scholastic principles… but for many of them their hearts are in the right place and if you can whip out a book and be decently sociable about presenting the truth you show them why something is right or wrong.
I haven't, since I'm still in that inbetween phase.
I leaning towards this, but I'm not committing yet because I have no clue about my ancestry, since I was given up for adoption at birth.
I think it would be imprudent to be asatruar if I end up being latin or slav.
Don't fall for the 23andme meme and sell your genes to jews. Get working on genealogy before the jews completely subvert that too (they're in the middle of it right now, get going!).
I'll tell you this though, in any research I've done it seems most authentic slavic heathenry vanished due to the prevalence of willing conversion and the lack of pre-christian writings. You might as well be an asatruar even if you were an ivan ivanoslav unless there's some massive body of research that only exists in vodkarunes.
>Latin
Latin as in Caesar Augustus? Or "latin" as in Cesar Lopéz? Nothing at all wrong with Jupiter. Tlaloc, on the other hand…
Well, I just want to make sure I'm apart of the proper kin before I go making any leaps.
I actually had flirtations with asatru earlier in life, but fell off for the same reason.
>23andme
I wasn't going to use them. There's plenty of alternatives, from what I understand.
Is ancestry.com good, or has it become kosher?
>most authentic Slavic heatherny vanished
Shit. Well, from what I understand the Finns have preserved their folkways well enough they're not slavic, technically, but I don't rule it out
>Latin as in Caesar Augustus?
Of course. The mudskins of South America don't deserve to call themselves latin.
Amerindian is the better term.
If it helps, I'm a very tall guy with a broad figure.
Only problem is is that I have somewhat curly/wavy hair. Not afro kinky, but I'm afraid I might have semite down the line.
>Is ancestry.com good, or has it become kosher?
>Ancestry.com LLC is a privately held Internet company based in Provo, Utah, United States.
Looks to be a mormon enterprise, not sure how good of goy that lot are. Can't you demand to know the name of your parents as an adult? You wouldn't even need to meet them, you could just dredge public records knowing their names.
As for your genetics, I'm not sure if they outsource to a kosher lab or not.
>Shit. Well, from what I understand the Finns have preserved their folkways well enough
There's rodnoverie and ynglism, but I cannot attest to the authenticity of either. I read cyrillic but don't have the vocabulary to really say I read any particular language. Most text regarding either are in russian so….
en*wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodnovery
en*wikipedia.org/wiki/Ynglism
Links broken because muh secret clubhouse
I can't tell if they're LARPing or not based on what is available in english, however. We have a few english texts but they're hard to corroborate.
>If it helps, I'm a very tall guy with a broad figure.
If I tore off that mjölnir, would you die?
>Can't you demand to know the name of your parents
That's the thing, they didn't go through an adoption agency, they went through a lawyer.
My mother (adoptive) has no clue who they are or what their name is.
At this rate, a genetic test is the best option for me.
>mormons
I trust mormons more than Jews, so it's worth a shot I think.
>If I tore off that mjölnir, would you die?
It would be extremely shocking.
>That's the thing, they didn't go through an adoption agency, they went through a lawyer.
>My mother (adoptive) has no clue who they are or what their name is.
I'm pretty sure I had read in a legal journal a case where it was passed down you had the right to know your birth parents ethnicity and medical information scrubbed of identifying info for your own health and medical wellbeing (e.g. bone marrow matching down the line). That might be a state, not federal, case though.
>I trust mormons more than Jews, so it's worth a shot I think.
I guess it can't hurt if you're out of options.
>It would be extremely shocking.
Was getting converted part of your plan?
If nothing else I'm sure if you explained your situation to a local kinship and also explained you were a heathen regardless of your blood (what you learn about your blood may merely change what precise heathenry you follow) they would at least let you show up. I mean, if you find your the grandson of Augustus or Boudica what are you really going to do? Fly to italy tomorrow? Hang out with wiccans? If nothing else you'd be amongst fellow pre-christians and I'm sure most wouldn't mind, even the hardcore völkisch would understand your predicament of being without local folk and at least let you socialise with fellow pre-christians at general kinship gatherings (even if you weren't allowed at sacred group rituals or something).
>Of coursh!
Well, what's the next step in your brilliant plan?!
>Fly to italy tomorrow?
Nah, but I would like to go back to the land of my ancestors at some point.
>Hang out with wiccans?
KEK, I'd sooner become a Jew.
>general kinship gatherings
Well, I suppose it's worth a shot. Even better to get familiar if I'm actually germanic.
>Well, what's the next step in your brilliant plan?!
To burn this church, with no survivors!
I have trouble understanding the tale of Baldr.
So we know what happens to him (killed by mistletoe), but is he dead already?
Has Ragnarok started? If so, how long has it been going on?
If not, how do we know about Baldr's death? Is it meant to be taken as a prophecy?
Sorry for the ignorance.
>So we know what happens to him (killed by mistletoe), but is he dead already?
He sits in hel's hall, yes. He exists, just not present in the greater world tree.
>Has Ragnarok started? If so, how long has it been going on?
Impossible to tell short of seven year winters or giant wolves running around or giant men with sparking hammers chasing world-sized snakes. Kind of feels like it sometimes, doesn't it?
>If not, how do we know about Baldr's death? Is it meant to be taken as a prophecy?
He will be reborn after the completion of ragnarok and the next turn of the cycle. There are many theological questions that come from all that though. Will Odin/Thor/Freyr/Everybody be reborn too? Is it perhaps a message that out of the chaos of each cycle only "the light of hope" survives when all else has been destroyed? And that new gods will have to be fashioned later just as new kings must replace the dead? Is it an allegory for general reincarnation? All of the above?
Get me a list of objections and I'll be able to make a list of rebuttals. I'm much too busy with pre-christian theology and spreading the original faith to listen to all of the prattlings-on of the practitioners of semitic slave morality. Other than "LAL LARPIGEONS" and "OY VEUS GEVULT!" what do they even have? It's like /pol/ and /leftypol/, one of them builds their identity on being "not-thing" to our thing and have weak as fuck undank memes that only the already converted like.
Here's a list of objections I could think of off the top of my head:
>Wouldn't one god make more logical sense?
>If there are many gods, doesn't that mean they're weaker than one god?
>If you're not a universal religion, how can you speak on a moral basis?
>What about the great recorded miracles attributed to the church? Doesn't that disprove your silly paganism?
I'm sure there's more they would come up with, but it never hurts to compile a rebuttal.
Well ,off the top of my head back:
>Wouldn't one god make more logical sense?
Would one life make more logical sense? What kind of question is this? Name me one other thing in all of creation that is one-of-a-kind phenomenon other than the whole of the universe itself.
>If there are many gods, doesn't that mean they're weaker than one god?
If there are many mean, doesn't that mean they're weaker than one man?
>If you're not a universal religion, how can you speak on a moral basis?
If you're a universal religion, how can you speak on a moral basis to so many kinds of people and spirits?
>What about the great recorded miracles attributed to the church? Doesn't that disprove your silly paganism?
What about the great recorded deeds attributed to david copperfield. Doesn't that disprove both our silly religions? Besides, the point wasn't that the semites don't have gods capable of deeds, merely that they're inferior gods for our people and their followers breed weakness amongst our midst for their true followers to take advantage of.
You're right, something a bit more authoritative and sourced could be very useful, though. I have several contemporary anti-christian roman texts sitting on my desk which I'm sure could also make for some enlightened argumentation, from the mouths of the followers of the original gods themselves.
>If there are many man, doesn't that mean they're weaker than one man?
As an aside: "Well clearly that one god is winning lelkeks :^)", is it? Is it really? With or without our worship skadi nips at the heels of those in her domain, waiting to freeze them should they ever let down their guard. With our without or worship Odin comes in the dreams and visions of new generations to remind them by blood of who they actually are. With or without our help the oak timelessly and relentlessly comes for the churchhouse. The followers of the christgod may fight a thousand, ten thousand years, but if they stop fighting for even a few our gods will destroy them.
We mortals are the tiebreakers in this conflict of titanic forces, we quiet the other mortal agents and we shall see how strong YHWH by himself is on this continent. :^)
> Besides, the point wasn't that the semites don't have gods capable of deeds, merely that they're inferior gods for our people
I think this is the biggest thing a Christian (or Jew and Muslim, for that matter) cannot comprehend.
The fact that we don't want everyone to hold the same religious views. If they were to argue against that, give them a friendly reminder that the Jews felt the same way about non-Jews for quite a long time.
>You're right, something a bit more authoritative and sourced could be very useful
That's the one thing the Abrahamaic faiths have that trumps us: a clearly organized codex and response to questions.
Not to mention that they've been so ingrained into society that people automatically assume the Judeo-Christian precepts without questioning their basis.
>Well clearly that one god is winning lelkeks :^)
Not at Constantinople, Antioch, and Jerusalem :^^^)
Seriously, if they're going to use conquest and "winning" as a metric, all the more reason to remind them of the atrocities done to Christians and the land they've lost.
>That's the one thing the Abrahamaic faiths have that trumps us: a clearly organized codex and response to questions.
We're already working on this actually. You're welcome to check out the PDFs thread or hop onto tox. It's mostly book club and book collecting, but as we add more texts and read more the theological discussions are getting much more grounded and expansive. I'm procrastinating from some monastic type text compiling to bake bread and answer questions today. I should probably stop that….
B024E8C4941418ED148C21370B398093D24272B21F7058D427170560D81D422D3110AF54AB5F
>Not at Constantinople, Antioch, and Jerusalem :^^^)
Also good points. But mine was that our gods alone are waging eternal war against their faith that requires the constant attention of YHWHs mortals to counteract, regardless of if our faith has any followers or not; trees collapsing churches, time unpoisoning minds, blood singing in the ears of men of their true origins. What does YHWH alone do robbed of followers? From ∞-300ad he didn't exist here despite being "the one creator god that exists in everything" and has relied on mortals to do all of his heavy lifting? Frankly sounds like a daemon-feeding cult if ever there was one.
The following thread is ripe with material for this topic:
>Has Ragnarok started? If so, how long has it been going on?
The myths are not literal, they are metaphorical. Ragnorok is essentially the Norse version of the Hindu concept of 'Kali Yuga." In other words, it is a metaphor for the final stage of terminal decline and death that all civilizations and cultures go through.
Looking at the state of the modern West, I think it's safe to say that we are, bare minimum, in the early stages of Ragnarok, if not well into it.
>We're already working on this actually. You're welcome to check out the PDFs thread or hop onto tox.
I've meant to do just that.
>theological discussions are getting much more grounded and expansive
Good, that'll be instrumental in giving us more solid ground to stand on.
I also think it would be prudent to get some of the guys on here trained in the runes.
>monastic type text compiling to bake bread
>mfw
Are you a gothi or something?
>Frankly sounds like a daemon-feeding cult if ever there was one.
That's actually what the gnostics say. They claim Yahweh is actually some sort of demon and Jesus was sent from the actual God.
Interesting stuff, all the same.
Another thing I think would help in our defense is that Yahweh speaks in the plural in Genesis (let us make man in our image).
Some have thought that this was the royal we, but iirc, some scholars think it was written before the Kingdom period.
Thus, it could be proposed that this was a time when Yahweh was just one among many in a pantheon.
>safe to say that we are, bare minimum, in the early stages of Rangarok
Well. Time to start working out more so I can get ready for the battle.
>Good, that'll be instrumental in giving us more solid ground to stand on. I also think it would be prudent to get some of the guys on here trained in the runes.
That was the thought of forming the group, aye. A scholastic group capable of going blow for theological blow with any other religion.
To build a future by putting down educational roots.
>Are you a gothi or something?
When I do heavy mental work for a long time my blood sugar starts to tank so I keep a hunk of bread to nibble on through the hours and keep me sharp. I woke up today to nibble bread and compile roman texts from doctorate programs, but I was all out of bread. Cue an afternoon of baking. I guess you could say we're all aspirants, though.
>falling for the industrially processed jew
I truly hope ye do not do this, kinmen.
That's radical, man.
You have my respect for your dedication. Based on your experience, what would you recommend someone who's somewhat familiar with asatru for research and building?
>tfw budding asatruar in the deep south
Things are going to be strange in the coming years.
Well, phase one was "know thyself", phase two is "know thy kin", and phase three is "know thy enemy". The PDF thread MEGA.nz has a large body of asatru material to get you started, with something stupid like 5+ different translations of each of the major contemporary texts and a good body of modern asatru-related works.
If you haven't already then obviously get the eddas, beowulf, the nibelunglied, the heimskringla, the works of saxo grammaticus, and pick up the several translations of havamal. For more recent works get "think again (like a heathen)" by michael smith and after that you'll want "summoning the gods" by colin cleary (I can give you that via tox, it's not yet in the archive), then with a bit of grounding in what makes one culturally heathen dive into the section "comparing asatru and wicca" to understand why wicca isn't really heathen and is the very worst of the neo-paganism, in fact after doing so read "against the neo-pagans" by julius evola and you'll find yourself agreeing with him on pretty much everything but the final "so just join catholicism lol" conclusion.
That's a solid basis to stand on and to start breaking down what made you modern and to fill it in with things to make you classic. From there you can look at the other stuff in the archive and see what you want from there, things like study guides, or specific materials that you will understand the cited material on. Also remember that good books are like friends, you don't meet them once and part ways forevermore.
>In what manner does the heathen prayer and sacrifice?
Sacrifice and interaction isn't limited to the gods, nor is it particularly grandiose or high-sacred as it is commonly depicted. In fact in modern practice it's a bit of a tainted misnomer. It doesn't always involve monumental spillings of blood or painful tithes. In fact something as simple as tossing your compost bin in the forest instead of the compost pit a few times a year would be a nice sacrifice.
Or simply leaving an apple from your lunch in the forest after a peaceful hike as a gesture of good will to the various spirits is a particularly heathen thing to do. Or leaving a dram of mead for the gnomes/elves after a good gardening year. Or most important regularly visiting with and leaving items for the ancestors. These sorts of things are just as much sacrificial as offering a strong horse to Odin or the like. I hammer on this specifically because most people think of sacrifice in the judeo-christian way.
Do I just show up on christmas, give you a single gift, and wait another year to see you? You live imminently amongst your ancestors and various nonhuman spirits here on midgard even more than amongst the gods in asgard yet most people forget them in favor of a few-times-a-year interactions with the gods and only the gods. You can see the silliness after thinking about it as an original heathen would.
>Should he only wait until high festivals to offer sacrifice?
Not at all. Though it's nice to take part in festivals for the sake of community and recognition of important days or events when the energy is just right.
>Or most important regularly visiting with and leaving items for the ancestors.
I assume that's for visiting family cemeteries and burial mounds?
If so, what if the ancestors buried there were all Christian or something?
And what about specific prayers?
Do we read out of the Havamal and stuff? Or is it more like a conversation with the ancestors and gods?
If so, are there set prayers that our ancestors prayed?
Concerning the afterlife, I know earlier questions were posed and answered, but I'm still somewhat conflicted.
It's recorded that in addition to Odin and Freya having halls, Thor has his own, too.
Is there any source that says if a person is devoted to a particular god/goddess, they might join them in their hall in asgard upon death (even if they don't die in battle)?
What are some good resources to read if I'm interested in learning more about the Indo-European pagan understanding of time? I've been thinking about it more recently and I feel like this is the key to understanding paganism. Everything seems to fall in place once you start to get it.
Two questions are related so I'll tackle them both at once
In the tradition there's about three ways you can go when you die.
"Into the mound/mountain" and become yourself a spirit or a guardian that follows your family and helps raise their luck and whom works from beyond the mortal world. If your family reciprocates you can become quite powerful at this role, a well venerated (spiritually fed and sacrificed to) ancestor who was spiritually powerful before even dying could bring great luck and fríd/fríth with the land and spirits to his kin and stand toe-to-toe with even greater trolls or ghosts and ward against mortal curses and magicks.
Or, you can end up in one of the halls. I've seen a number of scraps of material over the years that every god has a hall and a retinue within and if you were to do something particularly impressive to any number of them you could feasibly be invited there. For instance, if you were "literally batman" you might end up with Vidarr.
Hel and Odin/Freya just keep entire hosts of essences for the purpose of ragnarok or their general metaphysical roles.
Third, and very contested by some but I would throw in my own opinion that it is probably the pre-christian truth (by the time of snorri there had already been a level of decay and christianisation), is that you can return to live again.
Either through your own bloodline to stay with your kin, or perhaps in any random form should your kin no longer exist. Within this line of thought one could also opt out of staying in the mound or lingering in a hall and move onto this phase to begin anew. An exception would be both the Einherjar of the valhall/folkvang and the dishonourable of Niflhel/Niflheim whom Hel keeps for her fathers use in the final conflict.
Hel could be an entire book of her own, I'd postulate the truth is probably that she is a dual, schizophrenic, goddess that is both an unfortunately untalented and (socially) awkward but an otherwise caring and well-intentioned hostess of the "neutral dead" (for whom she makes the nicest hall she can, for living alone in the bleakest part of reality), and ALSO a greedy and uncaring soul-driver and tormentor of the dark souls she keeps for her father.
The eddic literalists and cultural semites will tell you it's either Odin and Freya's totally-not-heaven or Totally-not-Hel(l) for you, but I don't personally buy it.
So, with this all in mind…
>>10000 (GET)
>I assume that's for visiting family cemeteries and burial mounds? If so, what if the ancestors buried there were all Christian or something?
Do we think YHWH has a hall and a host for his souls? I can't really say one way or another, he sure seems to greedily want souls shoveled at him no matter what his followers have to do to get them so it's quite possible.
Did your ancestor live a particularly honourable life and die in a conflict (either a war, or something like being a police officer/firefighter killed in the line of duty)? Or were they particularly evil? Then perhaps they were chosen by blood and deed to be einherjar or denizens of niflheim/niflhel.
In both of those cases they're far away. I can't say what YHWHs visitation policy is for those he has trapped but I'm pretty sure Odin/Freya wouldn't mind letting a soul break away for a few minutes to consult with or console their kin. Hel, I guess it depends how she's feeling at the time for a neutral soul, I'm pretty sure the evil dead are stuck there as slaves until after ragnarok when then and only then they'll get their second chance.
If they saw the futility of christ and/or loved you very much they may well have chosen to go into the mound and try to linger with you as long as possible. My (christian) grandfather died young of an exposure condition and said he was sorry for leaving us so early and would do whatever he could to stay as long as he could… So I can't help but feel this is the case for him, at least. I would say that with no reciprocation or visitation those that go into the mount may eventually elect to move on…
If your ancestor reincarnated you may very well be walking the earth with them. Maybe your cousin is not your cousin? But also perhaps you could talk to their oversoul as their lesser self walks the earth?
In any of the three cases it cannot possibly hurt to try it anyway.
>And what about specific prayers? If so, are there set prayers that our ancestors prayed?
I say this with no NORSE authority, but with magical practice authority that those whom get hung up on wording are missing the point entirely. "Spiritum Speaktomeum" "Kinman spaekí meskr" "Hey dad, I miss you a lot…", the literal words don't matter, the energy of your being, the intention of your soul, those are the things in magic that matter.
>Do we read out of the Havamal and stuff?
Like what, to envoke them? If they don't even know what the havamal is do you really think it would mean anything to them?
>Or is it more like a conversation with the ancestors and gods?
It's conversational same as any other metaphysical relation. It's "spiritual semitism" that has made the spirit world distant and scary. There are stories of men marrying huldr-women and having children, or women marrying sea-spirits and having children or the alfs of the stones coming to help with the harvest… Before christ and his gaggle of wizards ~~cursing~~ "blessing" the land to be uninhabitable to ~~ the spirits~~ "them thurr demons" they were not distant or remote at all.
Though you pretty much never speak with the gods directly. As I talked earlier about spirits and their practice, picture it as real life hierarchy. You should talk to your family and neighbors every day or few. So too should you talk to the spirits around you. When you have a problem do you go to the palace? Or your brother/neighbor? You may go to the mayor for a problem if you can't get help from around you, so too with greater spirits like giants or ettins. Only if the world is literally burning and giants are rampaging would you ever run yelling to thor/the king himself.
>Is there any source that says if a person is devoted to a particular god/goddess, they might join them in their hall in asgard upon death (even if they don't die in battle)?
Only Odin/Freya care if you die in battle. But the other gods aren't exactly host-keepers as I said. If you were a hero of a given field and an exemplary figurehead like a world renown matron/matriarch you might go to them as a sort of "friggs little helper". Of course, we must always recognise that the written works may be incomplete. Maybe the gods have tons of souls they keep and Odin/Freya are only the super selective ones because they build an army. Maybe you only go to hel if your life was so uninteresting you weren't notibly good at anything. Even the texts fail us so if you wanna hang with Týr by being the best and most heroic damn police officer in the world don't let anything stop you. In our faith you should be trying to be the best damn <thinganyway as matter of expanding your being and embodying the aspects. Maybe senpai will notice you for it?
Final note on specific wording in magic: You may say very specific things to spirits on specific holidays or circumstances because some of them are very easily offended and your ancestors figured out that a specific wording worked and was deemed polite and would convince a spirit of something. It's more like a social handbook for dealing with non-human intelligences than the case that only these exact words in this exact order have COMPULSORY POWER over a being.
You tell me hello and please when you greet me and want something. If you say please am I forced to? If you run up to me and say "you give water me now" I might do it anyway, but it's certainly less likely as I'd think you insane or rude or both.
Invocations of how you'll complain to Thor if they don't leave may compulse them, but it's not the wording itself but rather that they don't want the man with the hammer to come bloody them for breaking the fríd of man and spirit. The word "cop" has no power over me but "leave or I'll call the cops" is very motivating!
>"Into the mound/mountain"
I've heard this before, I knew that the folk placed a high value on ancestors, but I didn't know there was a belief that ancestors could stay around to help the family.
I don't mean to be prickly, but do we have any sources that confirm such beliefs?
>Or, you can end up in one of the halls
That makes sense to me.
But I suppose a man would have to do something extraordinary to impress the gods, I imagine.
>Do we think YHWH has a hall and a host for his souls?
That's something I've meant to address.
What's our attitude toward other gods/godesses?
Are they real and only concern themselves with their people? Or are they the same as ours, just seen differently by other tribes?
In the case of YHWH, is he real for the Jews? Or can he be claimed by anyone of the Canaanite people, since he was their god of war?
>Though you pretty much never speak with the gods directly.
Not even in thanks? Man, that's going to take some time to get accustomed to.
>I don't mean to be prickly, but do we have any sources that confirm such beliefs?
Specifically which beliefs? I'll try to flip through my library and recall where I saw whatever it is you wanted sourcing on.
Some basic primers of some of that would be Think Again (Like a Heathen) by Michael Smith, and Reincarnation: Sifting through the evidence by Bill Linzie. Besides general info on the likes of Hel or the halls of other gods which are from the source material specifically, the Eddas, Heimskringla and so on.
If you mean about the spirits, the most of the "-bóks" pertaining to magic and later works like Elves, Wights and Trolls by Kveldulf Gunndarsson.
The good news is everything I just listed is in the library I am procrastinating from building on at this very moment.
>But I suppose a man would have to do something extraordinary to impress the gods, I imagine.
I would assume so, yeah. But like I said, perhaps not. Just because something isn't written doesn't mean it isn't real. We grapple with the reality of reconstructing that which was heavily fought against. It could indeed be the fact that all gods have their own hosts and those runestones where it was put down or those skalds who sung of it were merely destroyed or killed.
>That's something I've meant to address. What's our attitude toward other gods/godesses? Are they real and only concern themselves with their people? Or are they the same as ours, just seen differently by other tribes?
That's above my pay-grade to comment on with any authority right now. I would presume some other gods do indeed exist.
>Not even in thanks? Man, that's going to take some time to get accustomed to.
No not at all like that, I just mean in terms of asking them for something you don't go to them first. The reason you nearly never ask them for things is that most things are handled somewhere else, not that you cannot address them.
I notice a lot of metalheads and the like will invoke the gods directly for everything no matter how minor. If you need to clear out your garden this isn't "odin guide me" territory, talk to your alfs and gnomes about that. If you're in a boxing match this isn't "thor guide my fists" time.
You can talk to them any time, but it's not praying to jesus with a wishlist style stuff… Or even a sort of greco-roman thing where you pray to divided gods for "their thing", like to eros or aphrodite for love.
We have an entire world of spirits and beings and while you can talk to them all with soulsight it's just not purposeful to go right to the highest ones for every little thing. Odinn, being wise, patient and fatherly and understanding you were raised in a system that taught you that way would probably tolerate it a few times, but you can see how it would wear thin to be the all-father in constant preparation for ragnarok, managing the einherjar, scrying the universe for answers to protect all life from forces only you alone can fathom much less tackle… and then you feel a jolting of invocation and break a shard of yourself to see what it is about and it's something completely trivial and pointless, by somebody demanding and entitled.
Frankly, I'm sure the LARPists annoy nobody more than the gods themselves.
>Specifically which beliefs?
The idea of reincarnation and staying in the "mound".
>The reason you nearly never ask them for things is that most things are handled somewhere else
I see. So all these spirits (some of which I assume include our ancestors) are our immediate go-to's when it comes to need and daily affairs?
>alfs and gnomes
I hate to be such a bother, but exactly how diverse are the spirits that we know of?
>I don't mean to be prickly, but do we have any sources that confirm such beliefs?
In the Mega.nz pdf library mentioned earlier, under the "Germanic-Scandinavian-Anglo-Saxon folder", go to the folder "Books by Bil Linzie" and pretty much read 'em all when you can. Especially:
after_life_bil_linzie.pdf
germanic_spirituality.pdf
and
reincarnation2.pdf as mentioned by >>10035
Read those first for answers to your specific questions.
Also under the same "Germanic-Scandinavian-Anglo-Saxon" subfolder, check out the folder "The Road To Hel" and read the pdf in there.
>Or, you can end up in one of the halls
That makes sense to me.
But I suppose a man would have to do something extraordinary to impress the gods, I imagine.
I would err on the side of taking that version of the Heathen afterlife with a skyscraper of salt. It, along with the Eddas have quite a bit of post conversion Christian influence. The "dying into a high god's hall" and having a personal relationship with one is essentially the product of Heathenry being influenced by the Christian (and generally Semitic) afterlife concept of going to a completely separate realm far away from the Earth upon death, as well as the "personal relationship with Christ" concept. Which neatly dovetails into:
>Though you pretty much never speak with the gods directly.
Not even in thanks? Man, that's going to take some time to get accustomed to.
To go into detail on what >>10035 elucidated:
Think of the high gods and goddesses as the equivalent of a tribal chieftain, or a mayor of a city, or even the President of the United States. There function is to protect and serve the tribes and people as a whole. Can you imagine how overkill it would be to drive all the way to the White House to ask the President with help with a minor personal problem of yours?
That's where alfs, land spirits, house spirits, wights, etc. come in. In contrast to the high gods and goddesses, they are your neighbors, friends and kin. Asking a local friendly wight for aid is like walking over to your best buddy's house to talk over a problem. They are the ones you should pray to on a personal level. The high gods and goddesses are for inspiration, and to pray to for major problems, or at high festivals, or to pray with the tribe to for aid. They are more for helping out your family line as a whole, then you as an individual. Bil Linzie's books go into more detail about this.
> I'd postulate the truth is probably that she is a dual, schizophrenic, goddess that is both an unfortunately untalented and (socially) awkward but an otherwise caring and well-intentioned hostess of the "neutral dead" (for whom she makes the nicest hall she can, for living alone in the bleakest part of reality), and ALSO a greedy and uncaring soul-driver and tormentor of the dark souls she keeps for her father.
Hel, along with Freya and Frigga (and possibly Freyr), is more than likely just a heavily corrupted version of a much older Germanic goddess like Perchta or Holda:
She probably has nothing to do with Loki, since it is more than likely that the Loki of the Eddas was just a character invented to function as a Norse equivalent of "Satan", since there is no pre-conversion evidence of this version of Loki (even the Snaptun Stone is from 1000 CE, right at the poin that the last of Heathendom was converted.The Kirkby Stone is from around that period as well, and the Gosforth Cross is even later.) Though there is some scant evidence of a Loki existing in pre-Christian times, he was more than likely a just a minor being.
Honestly, don't worry to much about diversity and just pray to the local deities as a whole. I remember a discussion on Asatru Lore that basically explained this concept as labeling.
I.e. does this spirit help me? Then she/he is an alf or wight. Does this spirit harm me? Then she/he is a troll or jotunn.
Simple as that.
To go into more detail about "dying into a high god's hall" or having a "personal relationship" with them, or impressing them:
Impressing them to go into their hall is probably along the right train of thought. Both Linzie's works as well as "The Cutlure of the Teutons" (located in the Mega.nz archive under the "Germanic-Scandinavian'Anglo-Saxon" folder, in the subfolder "The Culture of the Teutons) explain Germanic spirituality as being hierarchical. With the gods tending to communicate on a more personal level with heroes, kings etc. Which is probably due to such individuals having the might and magn to carry out the will of the gods in the most effective manner possible.
Though I also have another theory as well to. I do think the high gods communicate with the rest of us occasionally. Just not in a prolonged or regular fashion. Sort've like a CEO at a Yuletide party going around to meet and greet and be warm and friendly with his subordinates.
Hate is a strong word, many of us (myself included) will still work with you and so long as you've dropped your "christ or die" semitic attitude and are willing as all true european faiths are to let your kin believe as they will and to be bound by blood and race.
But, you're the root cause of much of what we perceive as evil in the past… to say nothing of the millennia and some change of hostile and subversive, islam-tier, nonsense perpetrated by your ancestors… Frankly, our "begrudgingly-friendly-but-somewhat-bitter-and-guarded" outlook of you is undeservedly positive. The much more rational thing would be unbridled hostility and not allowing you a second chance considering how abused pre-christian trust was by allowing you to live amongst us in good faith. Like muslims, once you were the majority you were no longer a religion of peace, convert or die, ALL-TE DEUM-AH AK-DEUS VULT-BAR.
Of course you would say that you are not those christians, that your faith has had two-thousand years to simmer in our pot and lose its semitism. You aren't wrong either, it is precisely that fairness towards you as a new generation of people with a different outlook that we are merely guarded and reasonably bitter. We are not so spiteful that we will work with you against threats to our blood and kin, perhaps all the better to teach you how the original europeans treat their own regardless of faith in stark contract to your cults past.
>Muh crusades
Frankly, my point of contention with you is that you weren't vicious enough to islam. Too busy being "le defender of le west by killing le brother-saxons" while islam crept through roman north africa. Too involved with spreading your "le peaceful prophet man of brother-wars" to actually head off the loss of roman land and the saracen entrenchment in them. Nicea and Antioch are so important to you, where were you when they first fell? You had to come for us first and ensured islam grasped those places so tightly you may never get them back. That vicious to us and merciful to them.
But don't confuse my frustration with hatred. I'd storm the walls of Constantinople with you tomorrow. It's a meaningless city to us if we were truly factional but it's collectively important to us all and our shared racial history as one people. It's important for you specifically to take it and get back in touch with your grecian identity. Greco-Roman north africa shall once again be the shield that girds homeland europe.
There are tales of so many kinds of spirits it is practically useless to try to catagorise them. Sometimes they only appear in a single story and never again. As >>10040 elaborated on you can have hulking and fearsome looking alfs who would happily hold your baby and protect them from all harm with their lives, you can have tiny goblins who do everything they can to kill you. You can have spirits who are dryads and walking trees, or trees who are trees but who talk and have disembodied spiritual power. Seal-men, ghost-women… Hell, you may even find catgirls. The best advise for dealing with the spirits is to just take what comes as it comes and to not try to expect or catagorise what you find. Be like a child, no expectations and no "dis-expectations" either. It could be as simple as spirits pick their form, or the very nature of their home spits out chaotic and ever changing beings, or perhaps what your mind decodes from their nature is what you see… A very heathen thing is when faced with the real, but un-measurable, is to not stress over it too much.
It's kind of like the question of reincarnation or going to the god's halls… Or even if our gods are real at all. Just be the best person you can be to everybody and every thing you come across, live a meaningful and powerful life and when you cross the bridge of death you'll find out. If somehow the christgod is the real one and you show up in heaven as a moral and powerful soul, if christ is really that good you'll be bid to stay regardless of what pastors who want your tithe say, if the gods actually take souls into their halls you'll be invited, if you vanish into nothingness then on a nihilistic level your bones at least paved a better road for the next generation of meat that carries your genes as was your entire encoded purpose and these self-invented lies simply soothed you to finish your task as well as possible.
Now, I would contend that ragnarok itself is an allegory for reincarnation, that nothing dies forever in the spirit of our beliefs and nothing happens only once. But at the end of the day that's all much less important than keeping my oaths day to day and raising my children as well as I can.
Forgot my flag :DDD
Also this, it's an example shared with a lot of other pre-christian traditions. Heracles was hearing from a god every fortnight and eventually went to live with them. It really boils down to how valuable of a person you are. It's one of the things Evola touched on, how a whole city of people can be worth less than their king much like how a whole field of millions of ants is worth less than any one of us. Some power or worth is just not physical or visible to common eyes.
Another point of contention we have with christianity, "we are all equal under christ". Even if you take them at their word that is purely to do with the souls value to the supernatural that is still a level of marxism compared to us. Nobody is equal under Odin by any metric, not even their souls or their spirits. If you are equal in spirit, that at least plants some thoughts of equality, no? If you are equal in soul that exists beyond body, then all other differences are temporal and cosmetic, why NOT start treating each other equally now as it shall be in heaven?
We generally do it and it is traditional expecially when you consider that blót(sacrifice), bloom, and blood are related words all related to life force in some way. However, I'm not sure if it is absolutely spiritually mandatory or not. If you wanted to offer something else of equal value as a gift other than an animal OR another hard to acquire food-stuff for a feast with the gods and spirits then I'm not sure how they would react. My gut instinct is to say it is the intention and the level of sacrifice that counts, but it's quite possible the life energy may be important. I would also presume it would also depend on the spirit, a troll may very well demand meat or blood in exchange to leave you alone or something while a harvest-alf might be quite joyful with some honey-bread as thanks for their efforts.
If you're asking if you could be a vegetarian, I don't currently see where it is written you couldn't be but one could just as easily make a circumstantial case that you couldn't.
I have heard nothing of the sort outside of being an ancestor spirit of the mound. I guess you could call an ancestor spirit an alf in the categorical sense (helpful metaphysical entity) , but not the complete literal one (non-human).
I happen to believe in reincarnation coming from that sort of ThuleGesellschaft/SS school of thought but even I will say there are only passing tastes of it in the actual historical record and circumstantial evidence that since heathenry believes in never-ending cycles of rebirth and destruction that the soul shouldn't be any different if we go by the spirit of the mythology before it was tainted by missionaries and syncretism (that tainting having happened before snorri wrote down anything, ergo most of those sources should still be taken with a pinch of christian-filtration salt).
That said, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't just show back up as an alf for some random reason… You're not an alf, you're a man. Even when Baldr and Hödr are reborn it will be as an aesir because they are aesir. This is all wild speculation on my part, and I would posit wild speculation is really all anybody has until we have our own temples and gothi/mage/rune-guilds and somebody within them manages to talk to some gods or spirits about the matter themselves.
Where did you read this?
If you haven't learned enough and are reborn, you will be born again as a human.
That is how I interpret it.
Now this is just my personal speculation but when you are nearing the divine, living your final lives on this earth. Perhaps you will have some advantages over the less spiritually learned of the jarls kin.
I don't know and I think that I'll have to die and come back many more times before I can begin to grasp this.
I was thinking about spiritual growth over lifetimes after I posted this. Perhaps you do indeed become a more powerful human soul over lifetimes and then shift to other states once you leave the "human bracket"… But in either case, most humans are stronger than most alfs at most things so why would you ever be reborn as one?
Well, despite being what we are we can still push and grow and evolve. Doubly so on a spiritual level.
I guess it's not impossible to become something more (or less) than human. The spiritual level of (epi)genetics and breeding, if you will But it would be a very very slow process in either case.
Well since we all strive to enter Ásgarðr, we have to be born and die over and over until we have learned enough. Until we have become "white".
If we count being able to perform the ancient customs and communing with the gods as more than human, being more than human is just being human. Anyone of Jarls kin has this inherent ability to reach this state. The only question is how many lifetimes that will take.
Yeah seeing as how they mean actual elves, I wouldn't buy into that.
We are human and we will never be reborn as anything else.
>Humans can apparently become elves after death, and there was considerable overlap between the worship of human ancestors and the worship of the elves.[10][11]
>[10] The Poetic Edda. Völundarkvíða.
>[11] Óláfs Saga Helga. In Flateyjarbók.
I just re-read the entire völundarkvíða and I'm not catching where they're getting this idea from. I haven't yet read the flateyjarbók but I'll give that a look after I get something to eat.
>If we count being able to perform the ancient customs and communing with the gods as more than human, being more than human is just being human. Anyone of Jarls kin has this inherent ability to reach this state. The only question is how many lifetimes that will take.
This is also a theologically grounded theory. I would presume just as much as you can become more pure one can also become degenerated through the journey, however. Would also account for why our ancestors were literally marrying spirits back then and why most people these days, one-to-two-thousand years of christian spiritual degeneracy on, can rarely even see them in dreams. The average person's soul is barely attuned to what would be considered human in times past.
>They want to marry fags, too, which is disgraceful to the ancestors
This should have been your tipoff to trash their opinions. We call those fags the practitioners of "Wiccasatru".
>I know we place a great emphasis on familial piety, but what if your family isn't folkish? Do we still honor them since they're our kin or do we disavow them for disgracing the ancestors?
That depends to what degree they are not volkisch and to what degree they assist or fight you in doing so. Your fríd with your family doesn't vanish just because they or you convert. It is what made the christian actions in the past of turning brother against brother so vile to us.
>Also, what's the case for any anons that were adopted?
Your fríd is with your kin, not necessarily with blood you have never met. That's my take, anyway.
Ásatrúarfélagið is dreadful, their blóts consists of people standing in a circle while the leader recites: "mumble mumble mumble Óðinn mumble mumble mumble heill." then he drinks from a horn and everyone has hotdogs.
>We call those fags the practitioners of "Wiccasatru".
In Icelands case "Lutheranasatru" would be more apt.
>I'm afraid I have no idea what that is. It is equivalent to familial piety?
Yes, but also no, but also yes but also no. Hop over to
and grab "think_again" from "books by michael smith" in germanic heathenry. It is sort of an "idiots guide to foundation norse-germanic principles". Fríd could be thought of as peace, coexistance or harmony or bonds. You would still have fríd with your blood ancestors, but it would be much less than the built up fríd of those who cared to raise you when your blood wouldn't. You also have fríd with the local spirits and the gods themselves.
On that note I really need to get him to organise the library better into categories like "beginners material" or "spirits" or "magical rites" or whatever.
>Ásatrúarfélagið is dreadful, their blóts consists of people standing in a circle while the leader recites: "mumble mumble mumble Óðinn mumble mumble mumble heill." then he drinks from a horn and everyone has hotdogs.
How absolutely terrible. I'm pretty sure even wiccans put more effort into their brand of fluffy and meaningless new-age idiocy.
This copy I have of the flateyjarbók is only pertinent to its sagas of vinland, and isn't a complete version. Apparently there is an extended version of St. Olafs Saga (Óláfs saga helga) later on where there is a mention, but even if that was the case this would be from the newest and most icelandic version of the story and so written in 1390-1500…
Doesn't look like you'll get to be legolas.
It's a sort of "absolute-relativism". We have an absolute morality to uphold for those who also (can) uphold it, but no responsibility to uphold it with those who themselves are unwilling or unable to uphold it. Also we have a series of ranking loyalties so if one is presented with an inescapable situation of wronging/harming a kinman or wronging/harming a foreigner or outsider, the foreigner or outsider is to be wronged/harmed. Similarly if you have the option of helping/patronising an insider/kinman or an outsider/foreigner then you do what is obvious.
In other words we have no universal pathological altruism or universally applied "fairness" like certain †††other faiths††† out there. If an ooga booga/allah takbir doesn't feel empathy, or doesn't act honestly, you owe it no empathy or honesty, much less to be doubly empathetic and honest to "shine a light of example to the world". You also owe the others and outsiders no equal opportunities or equal legal status.
Of course, we aren't jews either, if a kinman has legitimately wronged an innocent outsider they are to be punished same as any other kin who wronged kin. They had the ability to do better and didn't for absolutely no reason. Also, those actions hurt or fríd with other peoples of the world, our trade with them, and so on which hurts us all.
I dunno, what's a ritual in hinduism like?
We have at least a hundred (more if you count magical practice) so you'll need to be more specific…
>Okay. A blot, then.
>About half of our rituals are blóts of some kind
O-Ok…
I'm going to assume you don't have soul-sight/spirit-sight. A general recipe for a blót where you can't actually see or hear what you're offering to is to go where the spirit is probably at, leave something they're known to like, say something aloud to them expressing why you're leaving them something, and to go back about your business. Your internal energy is important (being positive or thankful, don't do a blót if life circumstances might have you feeling angry or hateful that could be misinterpreted), as is being polite and respectful. Your first blóts would probably be apologies for all the disrespectful things you did before you knew any better. Explain yourself, offer something nice, be genuine, and then go back about your business.
Really depends on what specifically you are leaving an offering of friendship or apology for. For the gods themselves you'd probably construct an altar with an idol, for a local spirit you'd go near their home (be it boulder, tree, stream, etc.).
You're very welcome. It's complicated and hard to describe but it's the both the reason Loki seems to keep being let back into asgard to engage in his nonsense and why he also gets treated quite rudely once there. An interplay of fríd and dishonour. We're not quite so rigid, think of the story where loki helped thor trick the giants for his hammer, even a dishonourable and "bad" kinman can still do good for the family when given a chance. Like so much in our philosophy it is a smooth sliding spectrum with no large dividing walls of any kind.
Relatedly unrelated, there isn't really a solid line between alfs and trolls. Somewhere along the way something is clearly an alf, somewhere else clearly a troll. But in the middle it's not so simple. If something acts mostly like an alf you treat it mostly like an alf, but stay on guard all the same for those times it doesn't. etc.
It is a theme you will see recur.
Well, do you know the ancestor in question? Like a grandfather? If you know something they liked, take it to them as an offering. If it was somebody you physically knew then there's not really a need to be all formal and polite. "Hey gramps, I got you one of those IPAs you liked. How's the other side?". You can see how it might be silly to act like you barely knew them, much less saw and loved them regularly for years.
Other than that it's more about honouring and spending time with them. It's not like you etch some runes in the dirt and chant some stuff or anything. You could certainly magic/luck up the place they were buried with idols and runes and the like if you knew how and had the permission of certain spirits before just chiseling into rocks and trees… But there's nothing stopping you from just showing up and a great-great grandfathers grave and leaving something nice and talking to them. If it's your first time with an ancestor you knew nothing about it couldn't hurt to take something. If it's your first time period, the life energy of an offering might help tether them more strongly and help feed their manifestation to make the interaction more meaningful.
I mean, not everybody was some wise and learned gothi of the rune guild who knew ALL THE MAGICS. There were millions of common people who would just leave a pint or a little carving for each of their forefathers, say hello and get back to life. You don't even need an offering every time if you're seeing them regularly, your time and remembrance are offerings of their own. In fact, if you rigid up and think you need to say exactly "sim sim sallahbim" every time while leaving a perfectly carved rune at exactly 37 degrees north you're not going to do it right just because of how tense and distant you are emotionally, stressing out about exacts that don't even matter.
>Not sure what kind of offering to leave them, though.
Can't go wrong with alcohol. Mead is a favourite of drinkers across the ages, but a nice ale can't hurt either. Food and drink in general is what most blóts are offering. Maybe make a wood-carving and leave it? You could certainly offer an animal and their blood were you able (might offend a vegan ancestor…).
Also keep in mind if you're going into the forest doing magical type things that you yourself can be the recipient of blót, if you ever meet a spirit and they offer you food, or a gift (no matter how stupid it seems) don't refuse it. A single blade of grass, once accepted, can turn into a full magic stave, a pebble into a bar of gold, etc. Or, maybe it's just a blade of grass or a pebble, do you think a few cuts of meat impress Odin that much, per se? It's the thought and communion that counts.
>Can't go wrong with alcohol. Mead is a favourite of drinkers across the ages, but a nice ale can't hurt either. Food and drink in general is what most blóts are offering. Maybe make a wood-carving and leave it? You could certainly offer an animal and their blood were you able (might offend a vegan ancestor…).
Interesting, at least I have a pool of votive options.
But I think I might need to hold off on getting/making any statues, considering I live in the deep south.
>Interesting, at least I have a pool of votive options.
Sky is the limit. Though mead is the finest drink in all of creation for anybody who lives alcohol. Nice warmth, none of the astringent burn that makes you wince your face, a sublime back-end. Nobody in creation will say no to mead. Hey, got any mead?
[lip-licking intensifies]
>But I think I might need to hold off on getting/making any statues, considering I live in the deep south.
Everybody needs a craft. Making offerings is just a plus. There's entire magical school of sculpting and imbuing energy into idols for magical works, can't go wrong with that as a craft if you want to be a wizard.
Or if nothing else, just leave offerings of whatever your mundane craft is, when you spend time and focus making something you leave some of your intention and energy in it all the same.
Seconded, I'm always game to hear the results of others works.
>a craft
You mean something like woodcarving or smithing?
I've actually been tempted to do something like that, but I'm not sure what I can do best.
If it helps, I have a high interest in linguistics, folklore, history, and the runes. I'm not opposed to hard crafts, though.
Well, I clearly read a lot to pass on all these answers (I'm also active in the PDFs thread if you didn't notice). But I myself also have a slew of practical skills and skills to make things. Even the wizards actually do things in our world. In fact, when it comes to equipment or paraphernalia, making your own is the best way to be attuned to it, energetics is everything. I guess you could say in regards to magics I woodwork the most for idols, charms and staves. It can take tens or hundreds of hours to make something great, shouldn't that be time you are dumping your intention and vibrations into it? As opposed to a random craftsman just making a symbol and dumping tens or hundreds of hours to making it with who knows what going through his head? Even if they're a heathen maybe they aren't focusing on the magics or energies of it? Magical crafting is a hybrid-trade all its own.
If you want to carve idols whilst holding a focused meditative state on the god(dess) in question, yourself, and your connection and kinship to them then go nuts. That's very basic attunned crafting of implements and charms. The more successfully you work with a locked mental focus of pure intention you want to pass into the item with as few stray thoughts as possible with a highly energetic spirit the better an item you will make. Might want to actually get better at mundane carving first, before basically carving with your hands muscle-memory alone as your mind is more or less elsewhere.
Of course you would need to learn to sense energy to best judge your own work… But as you make and use implements it will come to you, generally. If nothing else in the meanwhile you can think back on how you did and then see which items you made provide the best ritual results. Basically, the most succinct description of practical magic I have ever heard or read was "energy enfolding intention, intention shaping energy"… So you are capturing that in a physical form, leaving an energetic-psychic reverberation on the item in question.
Be very careful going much deeper than that without a body of skills, experience and knowledge under your belt, however. Things like carving runes or casting actual spells (especially with blood energy) are not to be taken lightly. Odin himself gave up much for the knowledge of the runes and magic, now that it's been widely lost we're going to have to meatgrind a road paved with casualties to get back to it with full power… But there's no reason to step on clearly marked landmines of what we already know on the matter. That doesn't actually help anybody.
http://www.heathengods.com/find/index.htm
I don't sacrifice animals, only anime. :DDDD
Good question. We have several books on runelore in the library >>9731, but I haven't actually sat down to read them yet. I've heard a common method is to carve runes onto circles of wood and cast them… But I'm not 100% on the specific methods.
ps: There's also as I recall an icelandic gesture that basically involved putting your right fist in front of your face and pressing your shoulder across your chest to make out a hammer when greeting somebody at a distance. It is, as I recall, one of the syncretic "well this is awkward I don't know who follows what gods" rituals like wearing a necklace of mjolnir or a cross that arose in late era norse society. I'm not sure if it ever existed before the late era or anywhere else but iceland, though.
Yes, shamano-animistic elements of the american northwest are a deeply ingrained part of our own polytheistic folkways; we also have a deep tradition with the dreamtime, ayahuasca, dreadlocks and channeling the mother goddess within ourselves to get in touch with the divine feminine because we're all one race, the human race.
No. There's nothing approaching shamanism in our culture. Animism is debatable, spirits can be said to either be OF rocks/trees/rivers/etc. or simply live in and near them like you and I only incidentally live near the ocean or the mountains orwhathaveyou. But they aren't animals either way.
If they were like stoics they wouldn't be pantheist wiccans. The rest of us can appreciate how europeans are at least loosely one race (or started as one) and how our divine essences can be somewhat stitched to one another as being divergent shards of perkwunos and ingwaz and frawjaz and etc. without going full retard about it and joining a "crunchy" seattle commune.
In my opinion? The philosophies are secular greco-roman polytheism as liberalism is secular christianity as nationalism socialism is secular heathenry as communism is secular judaism. By that, one is a spilling over of lines of thought that reflect the foundational conclusions and morés of said religion but that don't necessarily involve the metaphysical at all.
You can then have secular atheists who are still any of the above because they reject they metaphysical but still operate under the rest. Dawkins is, by his own admission, "culturally protestant".
>choose
It's pretty damn hard to choose a new culture. We all struggle with not bringing the cultural christianity we were brought up in and with picking up a culture we have never lived amongst as we change over to a new way of thinking. He was raised protestant and hasn't put in the work to particularly alter it. I would say we're reaching the point atheism is practically a religion and so one could be "culturally atheist"… but I would kind of argue modern atheism is an offshoot of christianity and that it is, as it claims, "christian disbelief in all other gods +1". The arguments a christian makes against polytheism, the atheist applies once further.
If you read the Finnish myths, and perhaps the Slavic ones though I haven't looked into them, they are as closely tied to Germanic paganism as Germanic is to, say, Roman.
Which is to say, they have a common root. And so do we, as Europeans, have a common root in the Neanderthal. That genetic memory is likely what keeps bringing us back to paganism, even as it's been vilified.
Blacks don't have that genetic memory. Neither do Asians. Perhaps some Indians do, but they seem to prefer their own faith generally.
When possible, go as close to home as you can, but borrowing rituals from Asatru while worshiping Finnish deities is likely not the worst you could do and I'm not certain any deity would ever be offended at someone trying their best.
>Blacks don't have that genetic memory. Neither do Asians. Perhaps some Indians do, but they seem to prefer their own faith generally.
You mean in terms of being descendants of neanderthals?
Because I'd presume the various tribes of sub-saharan Africa could share a common folk heritage if one goes back far enough. Same with the Asians.
I'm not aware of any, but I'm by no means perfect. The logic behind votive offerings is that the spirits are presumed actual co-denizens, it's a bit like:
>Happy birthday Anon! Come to the back yard so I can burn the Xbox you wanted in your honour!
>…What the FUCK, Dad?!
As for the gods and blood sacrifices, as far as I know the offering is one of life energy and not the material animal itself which a mostly immaterial god has no use for. The yule I know of you offer a horse's life and then eat the meat in their/the gods honour. Not really anything besides smoke to be gained by the gods if you then incinerate the corpse. Burning bodies and longships aren't offerings as I understand it but rather a general practice of cremation.
If somebody has an account of burnt offerings though, by all means.
Coming from a language where we still differentiate between formal and informal pronouns, I wondered if any of you address the gods or your ancestors formally?
I never gave it much thought tbh. I think there used to be different ways in English too, but in the end y'all went the formal way for everyone. Maybe it's time to change that, at least in prayers? For the sake of respect.
GLÜCK AB PUTSCH-CHAN
In magic the words barely matter but the intention and energy behind them. In english you can be respectful without a separate collection of pronouns. In Asatru we're not the sniveling cultists of an angry god but the children of the gods.
So I'm not sure we need a certain "magic formula" for addressing them a la the cathoLARPs. Simply a mutually respectful spirit conveyed in basic langauge… We've always been a religion of people instead of a religion of priests so your average haggard farmer or burly warrior probably wasn't the most eloquent of speaker but had his heart in the right place.
>but the children of the gods.
It definitely once was the case, were it was normal that children talked to their parents using formal pronouns. It's not about a "magic formula", but a sign of respect, a sign of hierarchy.
In English, "you" is the formal version of addressing people, but since you use it for anyone, it kind of lost its value.
Huh, I didn't know that early modern English used "you" for formal addresses. As far as I know, in old English there was no consideration of formality; only number ("þū" for singular, "gē" for plural (weirdly, also "git" for plural when there are only two addressees)). Maybe we adopted the French custom of addressing single people with plural pronouns when being formal?
Well, check Wikipedia. "You" used to be the formal form, while "thou" used to be the informal form. Apparently it came with the Normans, yes. I don't know how it was with all the other languages who have that distinction though.
From Wigoypedia:
>In Anglo-Saxon times, these were strictly second person singular.
I guess this is a case against the formal pronouns, since at least they didn't have them.
You've been shitposting this all over /pol/.
Why are you afraid of nothing?
You shouldn't revel in it like the jews do, but it is nothing to fear.
Personally I believe we reincarnate until we have learned what we need to and only then might we reach another plane.
Even that afterlife will end however, only to begin again.
depends on who you're asking
the Greeks, which is to say Homer, had an afterlife but it certainly was not like that of Christianity, it was an underworld, Hades, and that implies the afterlife was inferior to our present life. Achilles says as much when he tells Odysseus off in the Odyssey that it is better to fight and die a glorious death than to merely survive, implicitly saying that he hates the underworld and Odysseus might as well be living there considering how he treats his blood life, that he deserves to be alive and not Odysseus.
>revel in it like the Jews
the opposite is true; the Jews wanted to sweep it under the rug by explaining it away as Yahweh had total control over everything.
the terror of Death is actually very Goy. The Jews wanted to pretend that death is meaningless, like everything else, and that was all part of the sugar coated shit-pill for the goyim.
But if you do not exist you can not see your loved ones die, or even suffer.
Shouldn't you welcome this nothingness from that perspective?
Again, I do not believe nothingness eternal will come. At least not in a spiritual sense.
Everything is a circle, all that has been will be again and all that will be has been before.
Does it really matter? If lying to myself that I'm going to have the best time ever in valhalla/the folkvangr, or that I'm going to reincarnate and do it all again makes me live a great life then the lie alone was worth it. Perhaps in a quantum manner believing in it makes it so. Even if you just want to enjoy life hedonism is an ironic paradox of not being the best way to do it.
An fleshed out argument against christianity would be about three books so I cant really dive into that fully. But I can give you the tl;dr lines of thought. I'm assuming you reject liberal egalitarianism and modernism? Accounts vary as to if all early christians were expected to sell all they own and communise their funds with the church…
But at the very least even the most /pol/-tier christian submits to the point that galatians means that there is a spiritual/ideological equality and that slavery is forbidden under christ between all of humankind:
>Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Now, they may tiptoe around the fact that it never says anything about biological or material equality… But the fact abounds that the principles of egalitarianism were based on that "All men were created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights". It was the first skidding on the slope that finds us to today. Never before in history had western society slid in such a way as we have. Decline, decadence, weakness, yes… but never such a sickness of soul as the equality movements of today that despite us still being strong of mind and body leave us weak of will and spirit.
The church as a western institution? Arguments on the absorption of western principle are by the churches own definition heresy second only to changing the canon itself:
>De Praescriptione Haereticorum:
>These are "the doctrines" of men and of demons produced for itching ears of the spirit of this world's wisdom: this the Lord called "foolishness," and "chose the foolish things of the world" to confound even philosophy itself. For (philosophy) it is which is the material of the world's wisdom, the rash interpreter of the nature and the dispensation of God. Indeed heresies are themselves instigated by philosophy.
>From all these, when the apostle would restrain us, he expressly names philosophy as that which he would have us be on our guard against. Writing to the Colossians, he says, "See that no one beguile you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men"
>What indeed has Athens to do with Jerusalem? What concord is there between the Academy and the Church? What between heretics and Christians? Our instruction comes from "the porch of Solomon," who had himself taught that "the Lord should be sought in simplicity of heart." Away with all attempts to produce a mottled Christianity of Stoic, Platonic, and dialectic composition! We want no curious disputation after possessing Christ Jesus, no inquisition after enjoying the gospel! With our faith, we desire no further belief. For this is our palmary faith, that there is nothing which we ought to believe besides.
And even if this heresy was undertaken, why do you need an 80% european, 20% semitic belief system? Why not just follow a 100% european belief system? As is pointed out in http://www.counter-currents.com/2013/07/why-christianity-cant-save-us/ the return is too low and the cost is too great.
For every positive of christianity I can show you the tradition of it being a european element or of having a european parallel. For every cancerously altruistic or egalitarian element of christianity there is no european parallel. So then the question becomes not "why not christianity?" but rather "WHY christianity?"
>spend part of a day out in the woods
>"meditate" upon and chant the word/rune hagalaz because it was the only thing I could think of for some reason
>after a while strong gusts of wind caress my face and a murder of crows start cawing loudly and circulate above me
>the next day it hails pebbles for the first time in at least a year
>when it stops I remember the day before but question the significance
>a few minutes after doing that, loud thunder is followed by pebbles thee times the size roaring down
Coincidences, but it definitively meant something more to me.
>Does anyone know where I can find out more about hyperborea/thule? I've been looking for a few days now and all that comes up is new-age hippie shit. Also, the only place I've shortly read about it is at the burzum website.
Good question. /pol/ once had a particularly interesting thread on the matter, but I don't seem to have saved it to .html, disappointing.
I do know of this, however. https://mega.nz/#!dtgnzLQL!DmRwKwADS8MRGw58N8IgFkn7m4UFCHuDmBF0NdUEJC4
Past that I'm not of much help beyond hearsay and rumour. I'd dig into it myself but I already spend hours a day on library work so it would be on a very back burner.
-
Are the Gods just real people that led extraordinary lives? And people remembered them for so long that it gave them some kind of extra power boost in the afterlife? Or are they divine other beings?
-
Has anyone had a near death experience that involved any kind of asatru experience?
goedenavond, kankerlijers
i'd say friesland, drenthe and gelderland would be good places to look, frisian nationalism is one of the few kinds of nationalism that is really tollerated, and the saxon spirit really lives among the gelders. as for drenthe, i think heath attracts heathens.
>1. Are the Gods just real people that led extraordinary lives? And people remembered them for so long that it gave them some kind of extra power boost in the afterlife? Or are they divine other beings?
What does the distinction matter? It is one of origin, not one of nature. Empowered ultra-ancestor, Über-tulpa, Interested patron other-being of unfathomable nature to those of us in 3d… They're here now and do what they do. I doubt we'll ever know, but you're welcome to ask them.
>2. Has anyone had a near death experience that involved any kind of asatru experience?
Living dreams, sure, but thusfar I've thankfully never been closer to death than asleep. As to if it's "ever" happened, I can't really say.
isn't Asatru for the Norse?
What should us Bulgarians worship?
Slavic religion? the Ancient Thracian Religion?
Hellenism? Zoroastrianism?
Also this video is showing that we're Bulg-ARYANs from the Scythian Cental Asia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxckeS0qBd0
>Living dreams
go on…
>What should us Bulgarians worship?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bulgaria
>temples of Osiris and Isis have been discovered near the Black Sea coast.
It certainly looks like you have had a diverse background. I would look into what your family history is in particular, given that there seems to be an eclectic mix of people in your region.
But I think it's obvious that you should stick to the Greek pantheon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracians#Mythological_foundation
I want to be an asatruer (need to read more and other shit) but now this time of year, I feel really drawn to Christianity. I know it's foreign but it's helped shape European culture over the past 1000 years, whether for good or bad. But so much of our history is and culture comes from, an extent, Christianity, and I don't think I can not celebrate Christmas in the traditional way.
My only real beef with Christianity is it's Semitic and the anti-nationalism/everyone is equal bullshit.
I know it's not a question, I'm just rambling.
Why though? Everything about christmas is pagan if you removed all the pagan elements from christmas all you have left is a manger and baby jesus. No tree, no lights, no holly, no mistletoe, no Santa (His image is norse as fuck one can argue he is modeled after Odin given that during the Wild Hunt Odin would leave presents in people's stockings if they left out hay for Slepnir), Wassail is an ancient Germanic drink, etc. If you love Christmas carols so much rewrite them to have Heathen themed lyrics.
I do this every year and when I have kids and raise them heathen I will just tell them Santa is just another guise of Odin (he has been known to take on different appearances through magic)
Besides Christmas has not been about Jesus in a long time.
I'm a slav genetically with some german parts to it. But I feel more connected with the old germanic gods than with the slavic ones! I think. Sometimes idk. I'm really confused in that matter. It's weird sometimes I feel pulled apart by my connection for both of them. Europe is slowly starting burn again and I really need to settle this topic for me in order to know to which god I should devote my killings to and pray to before battle when the shit goes down.
I got a feeling over the years for the germanic gods, the heroic sagas, the symbolism, valhalla, especialy for the idea of the einherjer, the power and all there is to it, I feel very connected to it. But on the other hand I feel so at home with the slavic gods, the wooden statues the stories, the land, the culture and of course eternal slavic civilwar in which somehow every slav developes an unshakable hate for a specific other faction of slavs, even I developed it on my one!
My culture is germanic but the very face I have, my anger, my sadness my resilience, the plegmatism, the lack of mercy, the chumminess, the disingenuousness it's all so slavic! I feel it when I'm around other slavs I tell you I feel it! I share some very weird bound with them that only we can understand. They know it. And I know it.
What the fuck /asatru/ am I a fucking Trans-pagan?!
Meta question for the BO or vols here.
How do I make a nice rules page on my board like the one you have? I like the blue title bars with the bold text but I don't know how to do it. Also how do I link them in the board announcements like you have here? If you decide to help me please then explain like you're talking to an idiot.
I would ask on /sudo/ but all I get there are goons and snarky comments.
Here's an example HTML XML formatting for a rules page:
<p>Board Description Example</p><h2>Rules Examples</h2><p><b>1.</bRule 1.<br><b>2.</b> Rule 2.<br><b>3.</b> Rule 3.<br><b>4.</b> Html Link <a href="https://8ch.net/asatru/res/2.html"><strong>Html Link</strong></a>.</p><p>Example paragraph. </p><p>Link to another thread: <a href="https://8ch.net/asatru/res/2.html">>>2</a></p><h2>List Example</h2><ul> <li>123</li> <li>abc</li></ul>
Try copying it into your rules page and then set the markup method setting to "html".
https://8ch.net/asatru/example.html
>Alt liv på denne planeten er frembrakt kunstig av utenomjordiske vesener, gudene.
>Homo sapiens ble skapt av gudene, som gjennom rasehygiene, genteknologi og fysisk og åndelig fostring skapte arten i sitt bilde. Dette ble først mulig på Atlantis for om lag 3.000.000 år siden efter at de hadde klart å først utvikle et levelig klima og det genetiske mangfoldet som er nødvendig for at jorden skal bidra til rasens selvstendige utvikling. Menneskeheten er således både fremdyrket og kunstig skapt, og de første 200.000 år ble for Jarls ætt tilbrakt på Atlantis i treningsleirer.
What did he mean by this?
The Prose Edda is a good start, though I'll warn you, it's written by a christian and therefore interpreted through a christian lens
I'm new to Asatru and as someone who hunts, I've been thinking of offering parts of what I kill, will it be appreciated and if so, how should I go about it? Also I've been thinking of sacrificing one of my shotguns (barely ever use it) how would I go about that as well?
Were do you live currently?
Where did your parents live?
The fourfaced gods of the slavs were worshipped in eastern germany and later on populations there and the cultures blended to some extend.
Actually, under pressure of the recently christianised saxons they developed a quiet intricate temple culture whose religious practizes were in some ways more organised then the germanic ones and copied the christian pilgrimages to certain places.
Tell us where you life whats your heritage is in particular and a compromise of what had been in the past might be reached.
There are no """slavs""". The wendish tribe was also eastern germanic, just like the arkona cape residents were eastern germanic in nature aswell.
The rugians who worshipped deities such as Svantevit and other deities on four-faced totems were 100% UNDENIABLY eastern germanic. Anyone who denies this is fucking retarded.
http://de.metapedia.org/wiki/Ranen
Mormons are a decent place to go. Something to do with finding out your heritage/history leading to a better heaven/salvation for them. My mother actually managed to trace a branch of her family as far back as there is written record.finding out you're descended from Charles Martel is pretty cool so long as you dont have any family that is caught up in scandal or something relating to the church's foundingwe aren't sure what happened exactly. Just that whenever we request information about one specific individual in less than 24 hours the info we request gets "lost" but they're a great resource for most things
Can gods die?
Are they static and neverchanging, or shifting aspects dependent on the way they are evoked?
If you look into proto-indoeuropean etymology and religion you will find out that over the messy migration periods, the differing language strains and other factors a lot of gods have many faces or supplanted each other.
Dyaus is a skyfather in early hinduism, who later on was supplanted in importance by his emanation Indra to the point that neither of the two are worhsipped today, Dyaus can be traced to Zeus/Deus pita-Jupiter ans Tiwaz-Tyr (also found in the german Diens-tag (Tuesday). In the Avesta of Iran only the emanation Indra is mentioned as Indar- one of the demons (among other vedic gods) who are rejected by Zarathustra with no skyfather to create them but Daeva as acronym for gods in general.
In the germanic religious tradition, Tiwaz aka tyr seems to have lost his position as skygod around the european migratory period around 500ad in favour of Odin/Wodan whose etymology leads nowhere but to frenzy and inspiration/possesion making him an early medieval phenomenum (Tacticus only mentiones a "germanic Mercurios" which was later on likened to Wodan/Odin by the interpretatio romana which opens a whole nother barrel if you take the winged messenger and cattlethief of the romans and greeks in) with an additional connection to death and agriculture, while Tiwaz/tyr became war and swordgod alone.
These overlaps are all very confusing.
There are differing reasons mattering on the pantheon you wish to look at, in some Christianity has proved greater or was always there to begin with.
Not for the Germanic however, the Aesir do not exist without their people. The Aesir do not lie and try to say they are all knowing like your omnipotent likes to dictate. Instead they originally saw the belief these Romans had was useful in perpetuating their people into Roman territories and beyond and it did work for a long time. But sometime in the 16 century fate became more clearer and you get a slow protest. Would you at least say it was very strange the genetic makeup of the countries which protested? Also in these same places the word for Deus is the Germanic deity God, and they never stopped praising Gaut even to this day, no matter how much the Catholics or the Jews try to prevent them with g-d.
So what do these Protestants do? They remove the Roman influence in rituals and put the new testament and primarily the new testament as the only work to be considered in all arguments which removes Jewish influence. This cuts off Ceasar/Pope and Jewish influence causing many wars which Germanics win well enough. These same places start to also look at their past at first in a purely scientific way, or scoffing along the way at the believes their ancestors had but in time they are changed by them. And here we are today.
All the Whites in Christianity need to do is stop the mixing of blood and the old gods will not be summoned but as of right now I cannot see that happening so they will be summoned to this great conflict. And yes Gautr/Gaut/Godut/God will be there for he is the King of Hæfonnm and must save the life of his wife from the pool. He is who you should start praying to but he will only act if you have merit.
Maybe this was Cedar's plan from the beginning? Woten only knows.
For the Germanic there is only the blood, the gods don't care of your belief in them only that you continue their existence, because it is the only thing that can be saved from the Vortex. All your works and the candle of your life's exploits falls into the abyss but the ancient blood of the gods will still flow through you.
Without that there is no contact to these old things. There can be no regeneration of the folk and then our enemies will have won if our tree does not grow. You should start learning why they have shown themselves in our time and it wasn't to be some play thing for the mixed breeds trying to be different.
Go find a Semitic cult if it bothers you that much because they have never cared about the purity of race and are filled with half breeds.
I'm actually a burger in a similar situation. My first and middle name is semitic, and when pressing my parents to find out why I was given this name they just say my mother thought it sounded nice. It does sound nice though, and it's in trochaic triameter so I feel bad wanting to change a poetic name.
It does eat at me knowing I'm the only one in my family without a European name, and we have a naming tradition for boys so I refuse to pass on a foreign name but will compromise and use words of germanic origin that produce the same sounds as my birth name. That way all I change is the spelling.
If anybody knows a homophone for "Joseph" that's germanic (or atleast western European) I'd be grateful.
What the heck is this asatru. Can I get a tldr?
Namely how is it perceived to contradict Abrahamic religions.
What's the story of creation. Is there not a singular source of everything?
I believe that all the religions are true in one way or another; ie Perennial Philosophy
why can't we all just get a long
> Gautr/Gaut/Godut/God will be there for he is the King of Hæfonnm and must save the life of his wife from the pool. Maybe this was Cedar's plan from the beginning? Woten only knows.
Do you mind explaining this anon? Who is Gaut? Why must he save his wife from the pool? Who is Cedar?
>why can't we all just get a long
Abrahamic religions are exclusive and expansive
They can't co-exist or even allow the existence of other faiths
Look at the history of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims
The Jews waged genocidal war against all non-jews in their promised land over religion
The Christians did the same as soon as they seized power in Rome. One of the primary causes for the loss of the old faith there was persecution by the new Christian rulers
Islam is pretty self explanatory
Actually I got a question, I am not a believer in the Norse faith but rather am into the traditional faith of my ancestors the Gaels. Is it alright for me to be here?
Also there aren't any good sources for this online anywhere but how do I go about with my faith and get used to being lumped in with those Wiccans or the weak neodruids? Fuckers annoy the hell out of me.
Is it possible to be /asatru/ and a deist? Long story short Deism makes perfect sense to me, but it's not exactly an ethos and ill suited to build a society on. To me as a mutt American who's half Germanic /asatru/ would be the perfect faith to reflect my red pilling.
>Is it possible to be /asatru/ and a deist?
No, an impersonal abstract single deity, who creates a universe with logical rules versus a pantheon of personal anthromorphic Gods who created the universe out of the corpse of an ancient giant.
The ideas are almost complete opposites.
>What about impersonal deities? So the gods exist, but play no active role in our day to day lives.
But why? What would be the point?
>Failing that what would you recommend for a deist to be able to believe in active gods, who play apart of our lives?
You need a religious experience, how you get one is up to you, I have always had religious experiences since I was young, so I can't help you in that regard.
>But why? What would be the point?
To worship the gods of my ancestors and share a connection with those who are like minded .
>You need a religious experience, how you get one is up to you, I have always had religious experiences since I was young, so I can't help you in that regard.
How would one go about having a religious experience?
Hey i'm relatively new here and just wanted to ask some questions for a paper i'm writing for year 12. Basically, i'm talking about the philosophical concepts in Old Norse religion which obviously would extend into modern Asatru. The point is to outline how understanding the philosophy of the religion rather than reading the texts that we have at face value gives us a more coherent understanding of the beliefs. So, my question is; What profound philosophical concepts have drawn you into Asatru? I suppose some examples would be creative destruction and the pursuit of knowledge through self sacrifice.
Would really help me out if I could get some replies to my dumb-ass questions, but i don't blame you if you don't. Cheers!
Being and time lad. Yes, even Martin Heideggers main philosophy can be shown to have concurrent streams of thought by the transfer of a certain man named Oswald Spengler. Basically the main approach to thought is that we, the present, are, not that the past and the future are. Honestly just read the first essay in Tyr vol 1 and you should have enough for a good paper.
For me it was being awake to the dangers around you. Do you hear the Eadwacer (erwacht)? The Wulf (Fenris) is carrying a whelp away.
If you have the time you should break apart this poem and see the movement in it, it's a more simple concept. The pursuit to knowledge is a bit different, it is to know the landscape you tread and how to make weapons, basically everything is a weapon. Rarely does the wolf kill its prey outright, instead he allows it to bleed until it cannot harm him.
Wotan did teach me to sacrifice, it is matter of greatness, your flaws and weaknesses are like scars such as loosing a thumb and having to live the rest of your life like this. Of course I don't want to loose a finger but I would put it on the line to save my kin. Sacrificing is a gamble with many different fates, you could loose your finger or life and still not save your kin, worsening all outcomes or have it so nobody looses everything and everyone is save. That is your call and who you allow yourself to follow, Tyr had to know the Wolf was a devourer and now lives with that scar.
>What profound philosophical concepts have drawn you into Asatru?
That we are our ancestors, and we are our descendants. That blood and name are what lives on through the ages, that even in this modern period every man is born with an innate duty and responsibility and it is up to us to continue and strengthen the unbroken chain from the past to the future.
Do we have a god of the forge/smiths? I'm training to be a welder and do other metal and crafting work but can't find a related god. I know of Weyland but he's not a "proper" god and most versions of his story have him raping Nidhad's daughter and I'm not going to have an idol for dwarves on my altar.
Thor is easily related to arc welding but that's just a small part of what I do.
The only things I've found relating to forging or smithing are various dwarves.
I know Hephaestus/Vulcan are the Greek/Roman god(s?) of smithing, but they aren't Asatru, so I'm not sure how that would work.
Thor should work, if not, Odin and Tyr represent learning and knowledge, which I think should be fine, especially since you're still training/learning. I'm no expert though, so I may be wrong, but that's my two cents.
Adding onto what I previously stated, I don't think having an idol for dwarves would be too bad, I know the Romans and Greeks had idols for the various Muses, which are to the arts in the Greco-Roman pantheons what the dwarves are to forging in the Asatru pantheon(s). Again, I'm no expert, so it would probably be better for someone else to give you a clearer answer, but that's my two cents.
Are Hindus accepted as "Pagans?" I'm much more interested in that tradition than in modern neo-paganism, because there is an unbroken line of succession in Hinduism. But Hindus don't have many friends considering the other major religions on 8chan are: Christians, Muslims, or Atheists. (excluding /fringe/ because syncretism is not its own religion)
Personally I would want this board to be just about European Paganism but I don't dislike Hinduism and I have a lot of respect for ancient India. There aren't many people irl to talk to about European Paganism so I would want this place to just remain exclusively about European native faiths.
I know that modern Hinduism is to a large degree, pretty shit, as it has been heavily syncretized with the native Dravidian religions (which were… bad, to say the least). However, ancient Hinduism is quite respectable as a fellow pagan religion, and although this board isn't specifically dedicated to Hinduism, it is certainly welcome here (especially now since this board isn't that active…).
So it has been about, what–1000 years since Europe converted?
The first new temples are being constructed. How long must we worship in penance for our apostasy before the gods again start to teach us again? Will they tell us the lost stories again? Should new poems be written? How will we now which poems are legitimate and which are forgeries?
My guess is the gods will not retell the lost poems for at least a thousand years. It also seems to me if new poetry is to be written, it will be from the last area to fall into apostasy and return to Asatru, that is to say, Iceland.
Any thoughts?
I mean I wouldn't do it for sexual reasons or anything like that. I'm mentally ill and I literally don't know of anything else that could work to make me not feel like shit all the time. I am rather new to paganism though, do you know of anything supernatural I could try to make the mental illness go away?
I think you missed the whole point of Loki being the antagonist of Norse mythology, he also kills Baldr through trickery and lies and promises to fell Freya to the Jotunns on multiple accounts. He is very clearly supposed to represent everything the Norsemen considered vile, effeminate, weak and cowardly. He is the antithesis to Thor, Odin and Freyr.
>reading norse mythology without reading the sagas or Germanic history in order to gain context
https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/tacitus1.html
"Traitors and deserters are hanged on trees; the coward, the unwarlike, the man stained with abominable and unmanly vices, is plunged into the mire of the morass with a hurdle put over him. This distinction in punishment means that crime, they think, ought, in being punished, to be exposed, while shame ought to be buried out of sight."
https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2013/10/21/elves-orcs-and-all-that/
http://www.1069thex.com/2018/01/30/how-many-transgender-kids-grow-up-to-stay-trans/
https://digest.bps.org.uk/2018/01/17/most-children-and-teens-with-gender-dysphoria-also-have-multiple-other-psychological-issues/
http://rodfleming.com/links/
http://individual.utoronto.ca/ray_blanchard/
https://twitter.com/YeyoZa/status/963002623950548993
https://twitter.com/LilyLilyMaynard/status/964495059474370560
http://www.playboy.com/articles/gender-neutral-trend
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/dont-treat-all-cases-of-gender-dysphoria-the-same-way/article37711831/
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/17/report-modern-culture-is-not-just-revealing-transgenders-it-is-creating-them/
Last set of sources against Fags/Dykes/Trannies. My work is done here.
https://twitter.com/emily_zinos/status/959522241838043136
https://twitter.com/YeyoZa/status/962798154382004224
http://thefederalist.com/2018/01/30/americans-comfort-levels-lgbt-people-dropped-last-year/
http://www.catholicworldreport.com/2018/02/16/transgenderism-semantic-contagion-or-biological-fact/
http://www.sexologytoday.org/2017/12/faulty-statistics-on-how-many-trans.html
http://www.sexologytoday.org/2016/01/do-trans-kids-stay-trans-when-they-grow_99.html
http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/01/20844/
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/12/a-new-way-to-be-mad/304671/
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/02/17/report-modern-culture-is-not-just-revealing-transgenders-it-is-creating-them/
http://www.conservapedia.com/Homosexuality_in_animals_myth
Recommended reading.
>>doesn't understand using the unexpected tactic to exact revenge
>>even in the late Medieval era this would not have understood to be sexual
Thor kills everyone at that wedding at any rate.
Just hang yourself, you're probably going to do it anyway. Perhaps you'll gain wisdom from the experience.
did people pray to baldr even after his death? was the praying done differently? did anything change at all? and did the myth of his death originate at the same time as his character or was his character later elaborated on?
thanks in advance
The death of Baldr and birthing of Vali through Odin "raping" Rindr has a lot of significance, especially if you subscribe to the throne of Asgard being for the most "worthy". For instance archaeological evidence and a small bit of literature seems to show in the bronze age and early iron age "Germanics" may have had Tyr on the throne of Asgard , maybe before him Flynt. The name Tyr is also more closer to "sky father" then Othin. At any rate the King of a people was the representative of his race and his moral character was to be followed as long as he had it, if he lost it, he had to be removed from kingship, for the well being of the race. If Tyr abdicated for some unknown reason and Odin took his place is a completely unsubstantiated claim as far as I know but much of the early works, earliest being 1555, which come down to us show Thor on the throne and Frigg and Odin as counsel after the death of Baldr.
Now anyone can easily prove me wrong by showing iron age idols of Odin on a throne but I did say Tyr being on the throne during the bronze age or earlier and there is no evidence Odin as well had the throne of Asgard then. To get deeper to the truth, would be to build the timeline of Odin and Tyr, to show I'm completely wrong.
so the relevance of baldr's death is that what is represented by him (seems to me to be an aesthetic and eloquent wisdom similar to the greek orators) did come to be less venerated in the racial character, not that it was erased completely, i suppose his return from hel after ragnarok must predict its return?
Sælir /asatru/. I was going to post this in the Opposing Views thread but it seems that non-heathens are allowed to make posts in other threads, so long as they are not explicitly anti-asatru. What advantages are there in choosing to believe in asatru over objective reasoning? From what I have gathered from reading the sticky, the most valid reason to believe in asatru is that, being a religion that was cultivated by our genetic predecessors, it will allow us to understand life in a way that conforms much better with what it calls our "nature" than a globalist religion conceived by people of more distinct biology would. But most of what asatru teaches and holds in high regard can be reasoned as being valuable and important independently, such as, to take from the sticky, strength, courage, joy, honor, freedom, loyalty to kin, realism, and vigor. Even revering your ancestors, or more specifically feeling pride for and a sort of inner familial relation with them, can be seen as important as it raises ones own feelings of pride, worth, and belonging, among other things. What remains after that is the spiritual aspect, for which my question becomes, is the spiritual awareness that asatru emphasizes more than simply natural feeling? For example, "experiencing the beauty and majesty of Nature" will make even one who has never heard of paganism feel "harmony with nature". Perhaps, for reasons related to a cultural basis promoting asatru could be beneficial for social cohesion, but is worth the self-servitude that seems to come with allowing oneself (and in asatru's case, as it holds kin as equals, ones people) to become committed to a particular subjective ideology?
one thing thats always puzzled me; how come Thor is usually described as being in the center of the idols of the gods, with Freyr and Odin flanking him? Wouldnt Odin be the central one, given his prominence in the pantheon and his title as "The High One"?
I'll make a back-of-the-napkin response to this. Theoretically, you can just say "I value strength, honor, and loyalty to my people" and enjoy a good enough life. But you can also take a further step along that path and cast off objectivism in favor of a more ritualized and faith-based approach. I'll explain.
So you say to yourself, "the tenets of Asatru (although I dislike that term, because Asatru as a community is largely a dumpster fire) are tenets I believe enhance my life. I hold honor and strength to be important." Now consider the following: some people postulate that the gods are vaguely Jungian archetypes; for example, the being we call Tyr is a personification of the cross-cultural archetype of the supremely honorable being. If you hold honor to be so important, perhaps you read about figures like this from across many cultures. Then, being of Northern European descent, you decide to focus on Tyr because you identify with Scandinavian, Germanic, or Anglo-Saxon culture by blood. You read about him, then you say "If there is such an archetype, the being that committed himself to honor so highly, perhaps I should venerate it. Our forefathers prized this trait so much that they gave it physical embodiment as a being and ascribed power to it; and since I am of X culture, I will identify with X's personification of it."
So you meditate on Tyr for a bit. You think about his sacrifice for the good of his people, and how you can improve your own life and the life of your family and friends by being more honorable. Eventually, feeling a close connection, you decide to give a small gift to Tyr, as a pledge that you will be more honorable in your life, even if it comes with hardship. When your honorable actions improve your life, you might leave an offering again, as recognition that honor has improved your quality of life, self-esteem, and overall reputation. In a roundabout fashion, you've become quasi-religious.
You are right for the most part, but to answer your question, you have to first know why religions came to exist in the first place, this is a huge topic on its own but basically, there are two types of religions - religions that developed organically that are based on the culture and way of life of a people in a particular area and religions that were developed inorganically by people from the top-down with some purpose in mind.
Paganism is only an objective ideology when it is relevant to us. It would be completely irrelevant to someone living in a desert who has never seen snow or even a forest in their life, but to Europeans living in the northern hemisphere we are given a guide based on thousands of years of trial and error on how to live a good life and which mistakes of the past not to repeat, this is very different from a set of rules that were designed by someone in another land (no matter how good their intentions were).
I'm personally not an Asatruar, I believe in Slavic Paganism which is quite similar and we are required to go and rest inside in summer during midday or else the "Lady Midday" comes to kill us. It seems silly now, because it's common sense that staying in the sun too long could give us heatstroke, but Paganism itself was the common sense back in the day and it was very impractical and sometimes even fatal for people to not to follow religious traditions. As for "experiencing the beauty and majesty of Nature", yes, we are taught to worship nature and see ourselves as living parts of it, not as beings who rule over it. A lot of people appreciate nature, but nobody really respects it and gives back to it as much as we do.
Þakka fyrir for this new insight brother. What stood out to me most from what you wrote is this idea that while, yes, strength, honor, loyalty, courage, and other attributes can be objectively reasoned as being important and valuable to have, each quality can also be interpreted subjectively by taking a particular perspective towards it, as different cultures throughout history have done. Out of feelings of pride in and connection with ones forefathers, an individual can choose to understand these traits in the way that their ancestors saw them, by reading about and identifying with the mythologies that have come down from them. How fascinating. My /zundel/ files include a folder on Norse and European texts, I hope to read them when I have time in the future.
>we are required to go and rest inside in summer during midday or else the "Lady Midday" comes to kill us. It seems silly now, because it's common sense that staying in the sun too long could give us heatstroke, but Paganism itself was the common sense back in the day and it was very impractical and sometimes even fatal for people to not to follow religious traditions.
Again, quite fascinating. I look forward to reading texts of the Slavic Native Faith in the future as well in that case, not just from interest but also with an aim to get benefit from it.
Seithr, the oral tradition, was passed down mother to son for as long as paganism thrived. Now, with fewer members, should we remove us of the idea that a Seithrmann is a womanly trait? Of course, by Seithrmann, I refer to oral instruction of children, and not Magick use or Loki worship, or faggotry.
>>Freyr?
I've only ever seen Frigga at that position. As Oak and Ash and Thorn.
Also Thor seated seems to happen after the death of Balder. When Odin went mad and did not stop until he proginated Vali by a woman outside of his marriage. Is this why he lost the throne? Perhaps the one who sits on a throne is temporary. There is great rumor that before Germanics met with Romans proper they dedicated much more to Tyr than Othin. That went away, this also may.
Is the first and only source of Moloch's great evil coming from the jews?
I always wondered that, since (((they're))) such a people who always say their enemies have done such terrible things and needed to be exterminated, for the good of "everyone". When you start seeing lies materialize around jews, everything (((they))) have written loses its gospel.
You see in the OT, only the jews are considered "people" by its writers, everyone else is an Egyptian, Canaanite, Babylonian, or "other". In Leviticus where the supposed passage exists and talks of giving your seed to Moloch it could have been throwing your grain seeds into a fire in front of the idol and the jews saw this as idol worship and built the story around it, to make sure if jews were to come back from this ritual they'd be killed by their jews.
Or perhaps the jews brought "human rights" to those idol worshipers who sacrificed their own children to a bull looking statue , the bull statue has no historical evidence btw. Sort of like how the jews do now in those same lands.
>Is the first and only source of Moloch's great evil coming from the jews?
No, Romans and Greeks talked about him also, they claimed the Carthagians and Canaanites worshiped a god known as Baal Hammon (whom they equated with Saturn/Cronus, a God known for eating his children) that had been imported from "the East". He was said to be depicted as a man with bulls horns and sometimes with a bulls head and that they would offer him infant children, who were placed in his upright-turned hands and burned alive (in some descriptions, the hands are slanting downwards into a fire-pit, and the children are simply placed on the hands and rolled into the fire or thrown into it from the start).
you do realize Canaanites were Semites and ancestors of the Jews right? And that the Jews worshiped Moloch on several occasions. They were all fucking kikes and filthy demon worshipers, Moloch is probably still worshiped by the kikes to this day. Dont trust this "enemy of my enemy is my friend" bullshit
>sort of like how the Jews do now in those same lands
what, lie about how the Arabs are pedophiles, rapists, sadists and faggots? All of that is true, it doesnt mean Arabs are our friends because the Jews badmouth them, its just evidence of yet more Semitic clan squabbles. They must all be destroyed, to the last man, woman and child.
which group specifically? tbh you dont deserve tattoos most likely, in Scythia they were reserved for the elite and noble classes and even then only those that had proved themselves either as great warriors or great leaders. Im guessing youre neither, and thus do not deserve to have your flesh marked as sacred. To be fair, I probably dont either. And also most Tattoo artists and aficionados today are degenerates and shitskins. I would never mark my skin by the hands of a nigger or a faggot.
Also you need to be careful what sorts of things you tattoo, if youre dumb enough to do so (I say dumb because there are other reasons to not tattoo yourself in this day and age besides the fact that nonwhites and degenerates have ruined it; making yourself extremely identifiable to the FBI is one of them) there are certain symbols that should not be tattooed. Runes should never be tattooed onto the flesh, only painted or marked with oil, ash or blood. Runes have the power both to bless and to curse, and if you get a tattoo of a rune done improperly it will do nothing but trouble for you. Read the Galdrsbrok before you fuck around with any tattoos or magical symbols.
>>Romans and Greeks talked about him also,
Tertullian was a Christian so he'd be into continuing the history.
Its no hill I want to die on, only to see how jews treat other peoples through lying about others doing evil cremations.
>>Canaanites were Semites
If the jews are coming from Egypt going North I find it unlikely at that time the two would be racially similar. Of course after the jews won and the Canaanites no longer existed then yes they would be from then on mixed into the Semite race and be apart of it.
>>about Arabs
Oh I don't need examples of bad behavior to fight another group just their difference in look is enough for me.
Im pretty sure Tertullian wasnt the only Greco-Roman source on Baal Hammon but not sure. I dont trust Moloch either way, and it all kinda makes sense that the kikes still worship him considering that they still sacrifice children.
And im pretty sure Canaanites were Semites anon
I dont mean to be insulting, I'm just trying to get this across to you: do NOT fuck with magical symbols unless youre a high level wizard, and do NOT get tattoos unless you are very very sure about it, we have few reasons to be lax in our struggles as of right now. Save your rites of passage until we have slaughtered the enemy and freed ourselves, so that Orwell wont be making sure to record your tattoos for future reference. We have no right to wear the sacred emblems of our race upon our skin until we have proven ourselves to the Gods as worthy of being alive and free.
>>And im pretty sure Canaanites were Semites anon
Like I said, not a hill I care about but kikes were probably killing goy Egyptian children on Passover long before (((they))) entered Canaan. That's the whole point it seems for Passover, the jew marking his door while the goys have their first born killed/sacrificed.
I have a question for yall.
I'm trying to understand the family structure of Odin's family. So what is it?
The simplest reading would have it seem that Odin had a son by Jorth named Thor, and a son by Frigg named Balder, and a and a son by Gritr named Vitarr and a son by Rindr named Vali.
Using the Skaldskaparmal that list becomes enlarged, though there has been many criticisms that it was a late addition by Christian priests to position Odin as god of all other gods and thus, "there be one god, goy, and we know the most about him, goy".
The list of the supposed "Odin's sons":
Baldr and Meili
Víðarr and Nepr
Váli, Áli
Thor and Hildólfr
Hermóðr, Sigi
Skjöldr, Yngvi-Freyr and Ítreksjóð
Heimdallr, Sæmingr
Höðr and Bragi
One that stands out immediately to me as a corruption and a mistake is Yngvi-Freyr since Frey is a Van and could no way be born from an Aesir only through the race of Vanir.
Placing a name under each supposed mother:
Frigg: Baldr, Hermóðr (takes up Frigg's request to ride to Helheim first called brother of Balder), Höðr (understood as twin brother of Balder and killer), Bragi (condoned by Frigga for only using words against an enemy in a mother's scolding way)
Jorth: Meili (only Thor calls him his brother), Thor
Gritr: Víðarr
Rindr: Váli
<Mother Unknown>: Nepr (father of Nanna, Nanna was the wife of Balder, making Balder and Nanna's son Forseti an incest which Odin himself is much against), Áli, Hildólfr, Sigi (Odin's supposed "third son" and one of the few known important deities for the Franks), Skjöldr (a supposed god from the land of Scythia according to the Skjöldunga saga, only known as a boy in a boat without any oars), Yngvi-Freyr (maintaining just Frey and not possible to be a son of Odin), Ítreksjóð, Heimdallr (attested as having nine mothers, usually understood as being born in all the Nine Worlds at the same time, as a sort of guide/scout/messenger), Sæmingr
Is Frigg and Jorth the same goddess? Both have a connection to the Earth, with Frigg's more Germanic name being Fulla or Hulda comes close for another name of Jorth being Hlotyn. Also there are Latin inscriptions in the Rhineland to Hludana made during Roman conquest showing a seated goddess which Fricka is shown often as. Grimm said he couldn't find a way that Hlóðyn wasn't Hludana.
So if Frigg and Jord are the same that leaves two giantness giving birth to Víðarr and Váli. I would guess Váli is the latest son Odin has had but I can't place a time when Víðarr was born and for what reason.
Interestingly enough Víðarr and Váli have names very similar to the more ancient names of Odin and his brothers. We know much about the son of Burr named Woten but Vili and Vé much less. Either Vili or Vé could have had done with an Aesir talked about in the medieval times but more recently not as much known as Methothin/Mitothin. There was another Aesir of this time Irminsul/Irmin attested in the 12th century Kaiserchronik, where idols of the Aesir still stood. Both in their medieval times are depicted like an "Odinic" figure but have different traits from Woden himself. Were these two the brothers of Odin? And as such tangentially a possible father for Víðarr or Váli that Snorri and other Nordic Christians wrongly were trying to put together as a singular god being "father to all".
Guys I need a quick run down of the gods, realms, symbols, and important figures in Asatru. Nothing technical as far as metaphysics and such which is all I've ever focused on so I know that stuff very well just need to know the mythology. I don't want to look silly in front of an Asatru girl I am going to be meeting later.
You must be able to stand on your own in a relationship anon, and she must be willing to kneel before you. The whole picture cannot be found in a snippet from a text and shouldn't be tried to be.
>>132. If thou wilt induce a good woman
>>to pleasant converse,
>>thou must promise fair,
>>and hold to it;
>>no one turns from good if it can be got.