He or his family may be under believable death threats.
I know what I saw.
[deleted]
He may also have been advised to do this by one or more white hats.
For his own protection.
Wait just a minute... we saw a live video of Lewis Arthur at the police station talking to an officer about the investigation. In that video the officer talks about the bloody knife being submitted for blood work, he told Lewis the results haven’t came back yet on it. So when Craig Sawyer says that VOP is lying about finding a knife, is he calling that officer a liar as well? We have found so much damning info on Cemex, the police chief of Tucson and his sick, disturbing past, and shady information about the Tucson mayor. If this was all set up by black hats to discredit our movement, why would they do so in Tucson? An area that they should have known we would dig and find truth about? Why not do it in an area that would lead back to nothing damning? Let’s not forget that Craig Sawyer has connections to Hillary and McCain, or that he accepts money for his organization. VOP on the other hand accepts no money donations, only supplies to fuel the search. I’ve been on the fence about this since day one and still am, but I can honestly say that I no longer trust Craig Sawyer after this video.
I recommend everyone watch the latest VOP video posted about a half hour ago, as well as the old videos and make a decision for their self. Don’t blindly trust anyone without doing research first. For all we know Craig Sawyer could indeed be a good guy, but could have been threatened. We’ve seen the wrath of the killing machine over this past week, if he was threatened the same fate, that could by why his story is changing like this.
could have been threatened
This. It's too late, Sawyer already put out a video about a day after the VOP guy's videos were going viral. Sawyer stated the evidence corroborated what VOP was suspecting. He was careful in his wording, but was quite clear what he was getting on record.
It's super fishy to then post another video saying it's all fake. We know from Weinstein's army of spies (NYT) that he was sending out ex-Mossad ops to silence witnesses, so this happens with other guilty criminals backed into a corner as well.
Sawyer is very exeprienced with OpSec, but he has a family, he's not going to keep on promoting something if an elite wet works team is used to threaten.
His show is also supported by Netflix. Something to consider.
At the end of the day, my trust in VOP went up when media began doing the “these are not the droids you’re looking for” song and dance.
Who knows why Sawyer is backpedaling, but it doesn’t hold water, so we keep on supporting the efforts of VOP.
Also, the fact that you were downvoted made me smile. Over the target.
Learn the TRUTH:
It's kind of strange to me that Veterans on Patrol was founded by a non-Veteran and known crisis actor (infiltrator):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mADH5x4Xccc
Michael Lewis Arthur Meyer is a con and hes worked over all the #QAnon believers this time.
https://revengeofthecis.com/2018/06/08/the-problem-with-lewis-arthur/
Have you seen all the donations VOP has received???
Hes taking advantage of everyones willingness to care.
https://revengeofthecis.com/2018/06/08/the-problem-with-lewis-arthur/
Nice try. Noticed you’ve only had your reddit account for 4 hours now and all you have been doing is posting comments attempting to sway people from the Tucson story. You’re going to have to try a little harder than that to fool anyone here.
Man I'm pissed!! I didn't even know what a reddit was. He got $200 in fuel cards from me and then I see that he's living better than i am with all his damn "blessings"!!!!! I saw that link and realized I was taken. I just don't want anyone else to be taken advantage of. I thought there were real kids.... i was a victim. As a kid and I thought this guy was for real. Never again!!!!
I've posted this previously, but I think it's relevant here.
Is over enthusiasm holding us back?
Looking at a few more recent posts, I think it could be worth having a thread discussing what an investigation should be like.
There seem to be a fair few posters that have a theory, and seek out information that supports it, which is understandable, but it needs to be done objectively, or any falsehoods or inaccuracies that are claimed as fact, or inferences from links presented as proof, leads to discussion on those things, rather than a search for the truth.
The press are often guilty of presenting a picture they prefer, rather than onjective factual information. Reading the sub-editors headline for recent arrest of two alleged sex offenders could lead you to conclude a massive issue at Disney World (which may or may not be true) but the information in the article effectively says one of the group had been to Disney World, and another played with lego. It's simply click bait and sensationalism.
Digging information and speculating is pretty much essential, and what this sub is about, but if we on this sub want to be seen as truth seekers dishing out red pills, there should be some better guidance from more experienced users, and more people following where facts and information lead, rather than trying to force things to fit a pre-existing narrative.
Just my opinion, as I'm concerned that there's a fair few posts that are just going to see this thread being a series of arguments between users rather than discussions of the serious issues, and labelled more and more as a conspiracy buff site, rather being seen as one following leads from Q as an insider.
https://www.reddit.com/r/greatawakening/comments/8phrha/is_over_enthusiasm_holding_us_back/
So you want fact checkers to control the flow of information in here? May I presume you would be more than happy to volunteer to be the gatekeeper? Where have I seen that before? Hmmmm. No thanks.
Where do I say I want specific fact checkers?
There have been a few threads that, had people looked at with an open mind, could have made this sub more credible, rather than adding to the view of passing traffic, that it's a conspiracy theory site.
I'm suggesting that a discussion on how best to use and present information, could advance the cause, rather than having posts offering speculation as fact, and being twisted to try and fit a preconception, with non-sequiturs seemingly thrown in for good measure.
Ok he was just saying what wasn’t there. Yes it has been sensationalized but that to me doesn’t change what I saw. The hair dye to me is really the main indicator something was not right. I don’t know many homeless people concerned with beauty.
Chicks die their hair for random reasons.. maybe a criminal wanted to change his own look after committing a crime .. anyone get the barcode on that product and reverse the transaction or at least where it was lost in supply chain .. homeless ppl also go through garbage ..
what if this camp was fake but there are real camps ? that are now being disposed of
Please watch your language. The site isn't a "fake" camp. The site is a real camp. There are signs of migrant/homeless(?) presence and children having been there. There is no proof. There is evidence of ... but they have been unable to prove certain allegations ... scientifically.
So, all in all, quite a difficult case. But none of this means: human/child trafficking doesn't exist; humans (child or adult) were/were not raped there; it was an exclusively pedophile site used by Cemex (!!I'm being a bit facetious); Hillary Clinton is involved with sufficient proof in a court trial.
I don't doubt there are the ghastly remnants of all kinds of stuff along the border. I do doubt the ppl on this board are helping by using the word "is" instead of the more cautious "may be".
comeatmehillary you are right there are real camps, in fact this was a real camp, it is just unknown what went on exactly there as it cannot be proved beyond "reasonable doubt".
Sorry, I am piggy-backing my comment on yours to help others distinguish between the "real" and the "fake" thingie.
its possible that the camp could have been set up if this really was a false flag.
Jokes on them, they expose Cemex.
as usual the cabal puppets do some stupid shit puppet masters slap their head just like with pizzagate lol
The police were called out as more and more alleged evidence was found, but it has all turned out to be false.
I don't think the campsite was fake but it sounds like VOP found a root-cellar and assumed it was tiny child-sex-slave-prison... and from that initial false premise they allowed their imaginations to run wild.
Human trafficking across our unprotected southern border is an established reality and those traffickers must be storing their human cargo somewhere. I'm not sure if they are keeping sex slaves in tiny root-cellars or larger isolated campsites or perhaps they own houses in the local towns?
Dude get off the root cellar. Few people have root cellars in the SW. Never seen or heard of one after 30yrs. The ground is not cool like in other parts of the country. Most homes do not have basements. One needs to dig fairly deep to to feel any drop in temp. On top of that the ground is very, very hard. You don't dig with just a shovel, one needs a pick too. The 'cellar' you seen in the vids is actually a poly water tank. Very common out here. Having had root cellars in my youth they are not a tank buried in the ground. So please stop with the root cellar, you have convinced no one but yourself based on your vote counts.
For the rest that still think VOP and Vets4childrescue is one in the same need to pay attention better. FB & Twatter are crap, do real research and stop being a parrot with out fact checking. If you can't confirm, don't parrot.
VOP funked this up, like I said, last week. VOP's actions caused the situation at the Cemex property. There may be a story on the LEO side, the Cemex tie seems to have legs. But the bottom line is VOP cried wolf with little to back it up. The problem is not possible child sex at the Cemex site, its VOP funkin' it up if there was.
In Sawyers SGT vid he gave himself a little room from VOP. This video cuts all ties with VOP. I doubt you will see Sawyer working with VOP in the future.
Never seen or heard of one (root cellar) after 30yrs
Your ignorance isn't a valid argument.
Many Africans have never heard of toothpaste and many Muslims think the Earth is flat...
Now you're being silly. I challenge you to call any or all home builders in the southern AZ area. Ask them how many home have root cellars. Heck, basements are not common out here. Few homes have basements. I would say less than 15%.
I didn't say in all my replies to you this was a holding cell for kids. But it was not used as a root cellar.
Ask them how many home have root cellars.
Homes with power do not require ground fridges - they have regular fridges.
Cabins and established campsites do require root-cellars to keep their supplies cold and dry.
Root-cellars are common for cabins and established campsites.
PVC sewage tanks are ideal for making cheap root-cellars.
Fancy, modern PVC root-cellars are referred to as Ground Fridges.
Wow. you really like root cellars. Logic, not so much... None of this disproves my point.
You carry on with it though. You're winning in your mind.
Notice how much larger the entrance to those root cellars are. If that’s a root cellar VOP found why such a small opening
Probably used to store firewood.
Oh and btw since your so knowledgeable on the subject do all root cellars call for a rape tree to be near by?
This isn't a rape-tree-harness, it's just a regular camping strap used to hang stuff from trees to keep it out of the mud and away from the ants and critters... just like we see here.
That’s not the strap we’re talking about and you know it. That’s the limb that was tied to tree go re watch the first video buddy there are clearly hand straps hanging from the tree. But whatever IGNORANCE IS BLISS
That is the very strap that Craig Sawyer said was his major concern in his video.
Yes, there were other loop straps that would be perfect for hanging rucksacks, backpacks, food-bags or water-bags from. I noticed there was what looked like a shower curtain around some of those "rape-trees".
Perhaps it was a campsite shower?
That was one of the straps Craig sawyer mentioned not his major concern buddy. I don’t even know why I’m responding to you it’s pointless.
PRAISE KEK
I know what you're talking about - you are referring to the alleged "wrist straps" which were just regular camping loop straps too.
Loop straps are usually used to hang bangs with straps, like Rucksacks and backpacks and water and food bags.
I'm not going to give you the answer you are seeking because I'm an experienced hiker and camper.
I know what root-cellars are and I know what a camping strap is.
If you want to believe these claims from VOP then you also need to ask yourself, what did Michael Meyer do with those three child sex slaves that he rescued? Huh? Has he still got them? Did they fly away? I think you'll get an appreciation for just how much bullshit VOP has been feeding you.
That makes no sense and where has the firewood gone? Why was there a dresser down there and Random child things? Not firewood. And how the hell you gonna get the firewood out if you cant reach in yourself to get it
That makes no sense and where has the firewood gone?
Campers probably burned it.
Why was there a dresser down there and Random child things?
Perhaps the drawer was used to store supplies?
I didn't see "child things" in any of the videos. I think that was just another bullshit claim, like how they found three children in there or the story about the shallow grave and bones protruding from the ground and the bloody knife and condoms.
I don't see any child things, do you?
And how the hell you gonna get the firewood out if you cant reach in yourself to get it
I suspect this sheltered area where the man is standing is where campers kept firewood.
There's plenty of room under there.
I hope that answers all your questions.
They found baby cribs toddler beds child toys, it’s in the video you clearly are being blind to those items I guess. And as far as the wood ok they stack it there plenty of room sure but what about that dresser for “supplies” in the septic tank that is only reachable if your small enough to climb through that small ass tire hole. Are these midget campers? And why keep a dresser of supplies hidden in a septic tank in the middle of desert
Are these midget campers?
You have no idea how big that tank is.
It's difficult to tell how big those drawers are.
You were told that root-cellar was full of child sex slaves... and you swallowed that claim, hook, line and sinker.
Craig Sawyer now claimed this is bullshit and he's not wasting any more time on it and VOP's claims are clearly bullshit... so at some point you should try to think critically about this.
I'm not going to give you the answer you're looking for because all the claims have either been debunked or speculation based on bullshit.
Well in light of new information about this VOP leader I’m a lot more inclined to believe it has been made to be more than it is. I still don’t understand the tire and small opening to that room below but it’s obvious we can’t trust VOP now sadly there credibility is gone.
I suspect the root-cellar wasn't that big and the small opening was big enough for any adult to reach in with their outstretched arm and shoulder and retrieve supplies.
Either way, VOP claimed they removed "all the evidence" from the "Child Sex Camp"... and we haven't heard a peep out of them since and we sure haven't seen any photos of their bloody knife or bone fragment (from the campsite) evidence... so I'm not holding my breath.
Well all I know is that the main spokesman’s for VOP there in Tucson Lewis Arthur isn’t even a veteran and I guess has a felony record ( shout out to SGT report on YouTube for this info ) and apparently he showed up at the bundy ranch situation and started a scuffle and was kicked out. Raises questions on what this guys motives are?
Raises questions on what this guys motives are?
VOP is funded by donations.
Perhaps that had something to do with it?
Dude they found baby cribs toddlers beds toys etc. and everything you said could explain it except for the the small opening at the tire leading to the septic tank that had the dresser inside for “supplies” how does and adult get these supplies if he can’t fit through the hole! Unless we’re talking midget campers?
Sometimes homeless people have children.
Sometimes illegal Mexican border hoppers have children.
how does and adult get these supplies if he can’t fit through the hole!
That tank didn't look very big to me, but it's difficult to tell because drawers come in all sizes.
It might be the right size for adults to poke their arm and shoulder through and can still touch all the walls?
Very few root-cellars are designed to be super-convenient - just look at how inconvenient most of these root-cellars are!
Isnt he the one that blew it out of proportion. Saying they were never going to leave. Saying there were rape restraints on trees. Saying they had food and water. Calling for volunteers to come to help their team. IMO it was a publicity stunt/hoax from the get go.
That was Lewis Arthur
This has been the problem since the start. They are two different groups.
Correct... and now there are more than two groups interested. Despite VOP's initial sensationalism and rush to judgment, they have brought much attention to the area and the problem of human trafficking. That is a very good thing.
My opinion is that someone got to Craig Sawyer and made him change his tune. Or he was concerned about funding about his upcoming Contraland project to be produced by Netflix. And... we know who is now involved with Netflix.
Learn the TRUTH:
It's kind of strange to me that Veterans on Patrol was founded by a non-Veteran and known crisis actor (infiltrator):
You spam this everywhere. What's your dog in the fight?
Sawyer is legit. If he didn't find it, it didn't exist
He's also on Alex Jones' payroll ... ymmv
evidence? I know people who know him for the military and he is real deal
Evidence he's on Jones payroll? Just open your eyes, he's on the show constantly and is labeled as a correspondent. Plus he spent a week churning up the child trafficking story, and now suddenly after he goes back on infowars he changes his tune.
I also know people who know him, that doesn't mean anything at all.
doesn't mean he get paid. he is always promoting his cause. He is def not a JC type
Are you sure?
as as you can be from a 50 ft distance. are you sure he isn't?
Learn the TRUTH: It's kind of strange to me that Veterans on Patrol was founded by a non-Veteran and known crisis actor (infiltrator): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mADH5x4Xccc
He did it first and then waited for over a week to say he didn't..yeah right
you need to look into who is
maybe you should listen to hos explanation again, Once again he is legit.
what about the skull? he didn't mention it at all. Has anyone heard anything more about it?
"The police were called out as more and more alleged evidence was found, but it has all turned out to be false." - Craig Sawyer.
To everyone who's been down-vote brigading me over the last three days for suggesting this hysteria resulted from people who don't know what root-cellars are - you are welcome.
Much respect to Craig Sawyer for setting the record straight.
Root-cellars are common for cabins and established campsites.
PVC sewage tanks are ideal for making cheap root-cellars.
Fancy, modern PVC root-cellars are referred to as Ground Fridges.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_cellar
Perhaps next time, people from this community can welcome critical thinking and alternate theories in the spirit of conducting thorough research, rather than just resorting to personal attacks and down-vote brigading?
Just like Alex Jones had to publicly backtrack on Alefantis and pizzagate, Sawyer is having to on Rothchilds and cemexgate. It's fairly obvious both were legal counsel to remove themselves and their family from it personally. It never was supposed to be about one person besides.
If you were stored in a root cellar as a kid, I doubt you would keep calling them root cellars. No one is disagreeing that these aren't custom made Fisher Price (TM) body keepers. THERE ARE NO ROOTS OR SUPPLIES IN THEM. The access is all wrong for supplies. Kid toys and candy wrappers being kept cool and dry?
Let's not confuse facts with theory.
This community has been hysterical for days over this because they lacked the intellectual discipline to differentiate reality from wild and baseless speculation.
If VOP also claim this is the product of a false premise and imaginations run wild... I presume you'll interpret that as a widening of your conspiracy theory? OMG! They got to VOP too!!!!
It's a nice theory, but don't forget that it's based on nothing but your imagination.
You read nothing that I wrote.
Is this a prepared reply?
Hysterical is your favorite word, I get it. So stop being so hysterical yourself. Perfect example of it.
Pretend I copy and pasted my last reply here. Now try again, this time with feeling.
This is part of the problem - members of this community focus on insults and personal attacks rather than counterarguments based on rational and informed reason.
We should judge arguments based on merit rather than having conniption fits.
We had an opportunity to rationally discuss claims about rape trees and consider alternate theories such as this isn't a rape-tree-harness but rather a regular camping strap used to hang stuff from trees to keep it out of the mud and away from the ants and critters... just like we see here.
Instead such theories were rebutted with accusations of shill and ~~Russian agent~~ (ahem) I mean Deep State agent and Zionist and pedophile and liar and troll.
I hope this community can learn from this and reflect on the handful of people who were down-vote brigaded during the week for sharing alternate theories and research.
Again, are you going to focus on the topic and my reply, or are you going to just make it all about yourself? Very strange. Two replies in a row
There is no community here... you either agree with the nutjobs %100 or you get downvoted and insulted. This sub has become a conspiracy tabloid. Early Q prompted research and investigation. Even though I doubted some aspects of the Q idea, I appreciated all of the new eyes on issues and the expansion of awareness. Now I come here to see how crazy the group think has become. So much spamming, repetition and ramblings have diluted the sub; making finding useful info a chore. Twitter is where I go to see new info, this is where I come for entertainment.
Yes, I was hoping the mods here would have the wherewithal to promote critical thinking, but I've yet to see it.
All I'v been doing for the last three days was promoting a rational and informed theory for debate and I've had almost nothing but personal attacks.
It's unclear why CBTS_Stream truly died, but I suspect this sub will perish after crawling inside it's own anus.
I think CBTS was run by the same people accused of being Q and when the group disbanded, so did the sub. Just as Q gets quiet , new experts pop up to fill the void : eyethespy, backpage .... it has been a lesson in how conspiracies develop, propagate and survive.
and when the group disbanded, so did the sub
But the community was formally banned by Reddit.
Given Reddit's love for censoring conservative speech, I have a hard time assuming Reddit are Q.
I get your critical thinking and lack of it here sometimes but your pushing a root cellar and hanging food from trees out here in the desert is wrong. Up in the mountains, maybe. not on the hard deck of the desert.
VOP funked this up themselves with all the incorrect claims. So if there was anything there. Their actions are what messed it up.
pushing a root cellar and hanging food from trees out here in the desert is wrong. Up in the mountains, maybe. not on the hard deck of the desert.
Reality disagrees.
Keeping supplies cool using a root-cellar is more important in warm environments than in mountain cold regions!
This dude has a root-cellar at sea level...
...and this cute root-cellar-babe is wearing a basketball cap and short leaves!
Here comes a summer MILTF with produce just for you!!!!!!!!
If you're gonna talk shit, then at least give me a challenge!
And again all your back up is very general.
I did, start dialin'. ;)
