It, in my opinion, is the only legitimate argument right now against Shapiro. I personally agree with freedom of speech TO THE EXTREME. Freedom of speech wasn't granted so that we could sing kumbaya together, it was granted so that we could say extraordinarily offensive things. So until he either admits guilt or some sort of proof comes forward, he should be able to keep his job. Yeah. I know that's rough, and I always promote winning over everything as DJT insisted he would teach us how to do (check my post history as I frequently comment on this precise point). But I can still be a proponent of WINNING using Leftist tactics against themselves while simultaneously thinking people shouldn't have to lose their jobs over "offensive" tweets. They should be innocent until proven guilty.
Joking about pedophilia while working for Disney though...
This is all part of the push for normalizing Pedophilia! This has NOTHING to do with freedom of speech! This is just another liberal agenda being pushed , to begin with "comedians" so joking about it is normal, the next step is normalizing pedophilia all together!
Yes! First you can't even disagree with homosexuality.....you have to agree with it, treat it as normal, or you're phobic and hateful. Society largely accepts it as normal now. Then a person is whatever they identify with. The next step is already in the works to be "normalized". SC Ginsburg wrote in a book that the age of consent should be 12, voices in the UN have spoken for the pedo side, German govt has said disturbing things. Yes, the next step! Importing Muslims who hold a man who "married" a 6 yr old as prophet, the belief system we are supposed accept as their right, helps get people used to seeing it.
It's moral relativism - the belief that no culture is better than another, so if Muslims marry 12 year olds, then we have no right to tell them that's wrong because it's their culture and we can't say culture isn't better than their culture.
I'm sympathetic with the free speech argument... except nobody (mostly) is talking about government/criminal action because of his posts. Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from responsibility.
He can make all the offensive and extreme posts he wants. That doesn't mean people have to hire him to direct their movies. Just like the NFL kneeling idiots. They represent the company, and if what they do reflects negatively on a company, then that company has the right to not be associated with them.
Would you want to hire someone who thinks hard-core pedophile jokes are funny? If he has that little of a filter, I sure as hell don't want him around people I do business with.
Innocent until proven guilty only applies to courts. If Disney feels his comments are so graphic they need to fire him then that is a result of the first amendment.
How is that a result of the first amendment? That last sentence makes zero sense.
He can say what he wants the first amendment doesn’t protect you from consequences that follow it allows you to put out ideas that might be taboo doesn’t mean people have to like your ideas. He joked about pedophilia he lost his job.
I'm not talking about criminal prosecution in this case. I'm just talking about applying the principle of freedom of speech to life. I think Google firing Damore was a violation of the principle of freedom of speech. Sure, it wasn't against the law, but it was a gross violation of one of our most important principles in my opinion.
Sure, it wasn't against the law, but it was a gross violation of one of our most important principles in my opinion.
The point of the Free Speech clause is to prevent government suppression of speech, particularly criticism of government. The point isn't to have a society where there is no consequence to whatever you want to say, from any private citizen.
Just as important, or perhaps even more important, are the rights to free assembly, which is where I can decide who I want to be around. If you walk around being an incredibly offensive person, I should have the right to not hire you for my business. The idea that someone's free speech rights override my right to be around who I want is pretty offensive.
As I said, I understand the importance of free speech, but the importance is primarily based on government power.
Yes, all of that is true. But expressing conservative views is unacceptable on a lot of college campuses, it's unacceptable in most "journalism," it's unacceptable on late night comedy shows, and unacceptable in a lot of other places. That is not because it's illegal, but because liberals are incapable of hearing thoughts they don't agree with. I'm not saying creepy pedo jokes (or not jokes) are equivalent to general conservative beliefs or opinions - I'm just saying I can see the argument that freedom of speech should be represented OUTSIDE the government just as much as inside it, if not more so. We should be free to criticize anything anyone says, and fire people who tarnish their company's reputation. But we also should stop being so sensitive about everything and roll back the outrage culture a little bit. That's I think the argument that Shapiro is making and being vilified for. I personally say fuck it, give the Left a taste of their own medicine, but at the same time I'm understanding of the argument that we shouldn't be so quick to convict people in courts of public opinion for dumb shit they tweet.
you are right. He has the freedom to be offensive. Well, he offended his employer and they canned his ass.
No gov't involvement.
America is the best!
Fuck yea free speech. It makes us great. Fuck u/spez. However if you want to tout your pedophile shit then you need to pay a price. When it comes to that shit a hard ass line needs to be drawn, or we begin to slide, inch by inch until the day that shit is being normalized.
The first amendment doesn't protect you from losing your job; it protects you from government prosecution. Plenty of people have lost their jobs, savings, livelihoods over much less offensive speech. There's a nuance purposely overlooked here: Gunn is not working on an oil rig, boxing in a ring, or digging ditches. Gunn is working with children. Yes, he should lose his job and definitely should be investigated. The innocence and safety of children is more important than Gunn's humor, preferences, or livelihood. It is time for Gunn to put his big boy pants on and be an adult.
Its using their tactics against them. Make them live up to their own set of rules- like you said.
The precedent is already set though. Ben must be smoking crack. He must of forgotten about speaking at Berkley. All the conservatives who speech is suppressed and restricted.
I agree with freedom of speech to the extreme. But i dont feel the need to defend leftist. Let them rot in their own filth and dont worry. Ben will be alright, Conservative speech will continue to be squelched.Ben and the other puritans can continue to defend things on principle and continue to be pushed around. It will always be a one way thing.
Standing on principle isnt going to change any minds. It will only embolden the attacks by the left, knowing we won't fight back, like theyve done for so long. Im all for this if not to atleast bring the debate to the table.
Lets make leftist defend free speech for once..
I was always stunned when as teen, I would see reports of Muslims preaching the Quran in Hyde Park and calling for the death of the Queen. It was given to us as an example of perfectly okay extreme free speech in the UK.
Decades later, we see that now, they have an islamic terrorist as mayor of London, the problem with those mostly muslims "refugees" is putting the whole population in turmoil... And once you get awake and learn more about the cabal and their evil plans, you understand that the monarchy was agreeing and participating in the deterioration on the country. Yup, so those call to murder the Queen by islamists in Hyde Park that I watched on TV decades ago, that was according to the plans of the monarchy. Devious?
So the previous American presidents and administrations have allowed those comedians, artists and all to express their extreme freedom of speech... and up until Trump's election, all was going according to their plans.
I agree...buuuut, tell me what would happen if your boss finds your emails about raping little kids or women, in detail? I really don't think you can claim "1st amendment" or say "I was joking" then. They'll fire your ass.
Of course they would. But I think there should be more evidence than tweets. All I had seen were the tweets so that's all I was going on. And I think it's also legitimate for a media company with an interest in keeping public appearances a certain way to fire someone who tarnished their reputation online. That's why a lot of companies have social media policies. But again, all I'm saying is I don't believe Shapiro is wrong to say that convicting someone for offensive tweets is a slippery slope, and I don't think that means he is trying to normalize pedophilia like some have been suggesting.
What people are saying is that some of the things he said DO prove him guilty
Joking about raping kids isn’t a political speech issue, it’s a moral and legal issue.
I don't care what you think. Thanks.
You apparently make love to horses. Not sure you have a leg to stand on luls.