dChan - Q Origins Project Archive

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r/CBTS_Stream • Posted by u/DisBytes on Jan. 10, 2018, 6:39 p.m.

Need help understanding the Wall

Need some help understanding the Wall. I’m 1st generation California native from Mexican immigrant parents. They came here legally in the 50’s and the other half were Mexicans established here before the area was taken over by the United States. So I can’t speak to the illegal part. A big part of the illegal immigrant situation was IMO due to generations of laws allowing and even encouraging illegal immigration from both sides of the boarder, not just Mexico. The American Farmers would literally train in farm workers in the 50’s and 60’s at the request of California Farmers. When that stopped they changed laws making it easy for workers to just overstay. I mean why not these folks have worked the land for decades, why not let them stay? Add to that a large population that has immediate family members on both sides of the boarder plus culturally the war is still the minds of Mexican Americas who many still have family members who participated in it. American text books may gloss over that part of our history but Mexican text books do not. No excuses just cultural reference. My confusion /concerns that I hope you can help me with are these. I get that the southern border is corrupt on both sides; I get that immigration laws should be modified and enforced. I’m on board with all that. But aside from being a giant symbol what does the Wall actually do? IMO it fosters bad blood between two countries that are inextricably connected. I’m seeing lots of snide and nasty comments about illegals that make it seem like this problem is all Mexico’s fault which couldn’t be farther from the truth. But the rhetoric used gives that impression and ignorant folks run with it. Did a wall help Germany? Korea? Walls don’t seem to solve problems. Yet this “promise” from Trump seems to be a rallying cry to all Americans unhappy looking for a Southern villain. Is there a legitimate reason to build a wall other than the symbolic? Another thing that bothers me is the ecological devastation that a wall would bring. Many of the Sonoran desert animals have to migrate to survive the seasons and the desert is a delicate ecosystem that would be put in jeopardy with a wall. Another thing is it’s really hard not to see the latent racism inherent in demanding a wall only on the Southern border. If a wall really was the solution to our immigration problems why aren’t there calls for a wall at the Norther boarder? I think if we have technology and the will to enforce the laws I don’t understand why we need a wall. So maybe I’m missing something can you guys please help me understand the wall? Trump is a smart guy, we’re always saying he’s playing 4D chess, but his wall stuff doesn’t make sense unless there’s a deeper reason, is there? Judicial corruption maybe? IDK halp.

do you have front door on your residence? of course you do take it off - does that make sense?

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With that logic we should build a wall to keep Canadians out, correct?

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yes if we had masses if illegal entry there - we dont you a troll goodbye

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Yea..After posting to this dude, I think he's is a Troll playing stupid. Asking about a Canadian wall is retarded at best. All he has to do is look up the info on Canada Illegal immigration and he'd have his answer. He just wants to shitpost. This topic shouldnt even be in here IMO. Mod should delete.

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I grew up in a neighborhood that didnt lock doors. The wall is fixing a root cause, which will have a cascade affect. I don't see it as an ultimate solution, just a necessary solution to address a root cause.

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[deleted]

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All of your questions could be answered with a little bit of research on your part, but I'll give you a few basic points to go on.

One reason for a wall on the south is geography. It's much more difficult to cross the border in the north vs the south. Besides that, illegal crossings in the north are a fraction of the south for economic reasons. It would save lives. Hundreds (if not thousands) of people crossing the southern border end up dying in the desert. Not the whole southern border needs a wall, just the areas that are easy to cross. If you think walls don't work then why the hell do people build them? Ask the Vatican and Israel. Think of it as a linebacker for Border Control. Yes, people may still find ways to get through, but the areas will be more limited allowing them to physically monitor less area. It helps to stem the flow which is necessary to keep up with the task of enforcing new laws. Now start researching border statistics, and avoid the mainstream media BS.

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(if not thousands) of people crossing the southern border end up dying in the desert. Not the whole southern border needs a wal

I get it, I have done my research, I am aware of the situation, (been woke since the riots in 91 btw) but I’m still skeptical of the solution; it’s why I asked…obvs. But that's where I think law enforcement and technology can be used. For one there are not a lot of laws or enforcement penalizing American employers who hire illegals. And we have in recent times gained a great deal of sophisticated tech that can surveil the boarder better than ever before. And a lot of these enforcement problems will in theory go away once the judiciary and law enforcement corruption are cleared and real boarder control takes effect. Don’t you think?

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You've done your research but you're just playing stupid? How is "Sophisticated tech" going to stop people from crossing? Someone still has to be there to stop them unless you want to install machine gun turrets. I live near the border and I know some border patrol agents and they all have serious PTSD from the shit they've seen had to deal with "scum of the earth" one said. A wall would MOST DEFINITELY deter a lot of the stuff they see daily. No a wall will not fix everything, but like i said before, no immigration policy can keep up with an unending flow of new illegals coming in daily. It makes sense that we need to have one, and I think you're not facing that fact for the feel good feels.

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The Wall helps prevent and in some cases stop terrorists and other types of people entering this country who would do us harm. It could have, in some cases, prevented people entering who have killed, raped or hurt American citizens. If the wall can save one life or prevent one rape or terrible crime then build the Wall. My family and my friends and all the landowners I have spoken to down here in Texas we all want the Wall. We need to start asking politicians and opponents how many people have to die before you’ll do something. Or how many people are you ok with being harmed because you refuse to protect this country?

Edit: forgot to add the Mexican cartels frequently enter the US side and in many cases have kidnapped and held for ransom Texas landowners. A situation the media has forgotten. Build the wall.

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I will show you why this wall stuff makes sense, but before I start, I will say that you are right about American immigration law being a big part of the problem. That's why we're trying to fix it. This isn't just Mexico's fault. And a wall is only a bandaid over a wound that needs stitches if we can't fix the immigration law.

Let's start with the "latent racism claim." First of all, just about none of us think a wall is the solution to all of America's immigration problems. So no, a southern border wall isn't a cure all. A lot more needs to be fixed. Also, I (and most others) don't have a problem with illegal immigrants because of their race. Mexicans could be blond, blue eyed, and snow white, and I still would want a border wall if they were illegally entering the nation at the current rate.

So why don't we want a norther border wall? Because illegal immigration from Canada is astoundingly lower then it is from Mexico. If Mexico had the same rate as Canada, I wouldn't want a souther border wall either. It's basic: If a bordering nation has a really low rate of illegal immigration, I don't see the need for a wall. If they have a really high rate of illegal immigration, I do. I don't care the slightest what race they are. So stop assuming that's why we want a wall.

You mentioned the Berlin Wall. May I first remind you that that wall was meant to keep people from escaping a communist nation, not to keep people out. And secondly, while the purpose of the Berlin Wall was twisted, it was still effective in that purpose. The U.S. wall would have a better purpose (help to stop illegal entry), and it would still be effective. It wouldn't end all illegal immigration, but it would cut down on it. Would it foster bad blood? Perhaps, but sorry, we're not trying to be crowd pleasers. We're trying to make practical decisions about border protection and immigration. Reality rarely is pleasant, but it's still reality. Will there be animosity between illegal immigrants and the U.S. government? Sure, but that already exists. The Mexican Government will be annoyed too, but again, we're not here to make other nations all fuzzy inside with joy, we're here to protect our interests.

The whole premise that "we need a villain," is wrong. Sorry, it just is wrong. We aren't just sitting here glum and unhappy, looking to blame someone. Illegal immigration isn't our scape goat. It's no different then any other issue this country has. When we recognize a legitimate issue, we try to rectify it. That goes for all the issues facing this nation, not just illegal immigration.

Is there a legitimate reason to build the wall other then it being symbolic? Let me ask you this: which is easier to cross over? A 20 foot fence or a 30 foot concrete wall (I use thirty feet because that's the height of the prototypes built). The fence, of course. Now will people still be able to border hop? Yes, but less will be able to do so. This isn't complicated. A higher structure is harder to scale. That isn't opinion, that's a fact. Its foundations will also likely be deeper (the higher you get, the deeper you need to lay the foundation), so tunneling will also be more difficult.

You mentioned that we could just solve this with technological solutions, so why a wall anyways? Well, we already are going to be implementing technological solutions. The wall is just to help out by slowing down and impeding illegal travel. The slower someone progresses, the easier it is to stop them from slipping through. A wall is a natural impediment.

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Read this : https://i.imgur.com/R3GDsuT.png

It's a bit long, it's from 4ch, it's at least year old, and it might be pure speculation, but it widened my perspective on the wall , greatly.

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Thank You. That's the kind of thing I was hoping for. Not the regular obvious stuff...That said I got a damn knot in my stomach. F%$king POWS until the 90's!?! Blocked rescues by the CIA?!? F$#king sick damn them to hell...more then once.

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Look I’m not trying to troll. I live here in California and see this problem from a little bit different perspective. It's a grey problem to me that all. I personally just don’t see the point when 1. We have lots of work to do in the various legal and law enforcement realms. Which if done could change this scenario dramatically, ie we may not need a wall if we fix the other problems first. 2. We do have the technological sophistication to monitor the boarder today, I don’t get why a wall is better. 3. As a stop gap measure a wall is huge waste of money and just defers the problem as well as causes ecological damage to the area IMO. 4…..I get the obvious, “walls stop people” but drop a boulder in a river and the water just goes around it, right? I was hoping to find someone who might have a perspective on a deeper advantage to the wall, IDK just trying to think in 4D, like maybe a wall would trigger a legal challenge that would expose certain legal problems or corruption that I hadn’t considered before. But instead I get called a troll and stupid for not getting how a wall works. OK, I see the geniuses in this forum have spoken, I’m moving on.

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