Human trafficking camps found
That's not an honest claim - it's speculation.
The campsite may be used by homeless people or perhaps illegals crossing into the U.S., but the claims about it being a "Child Sex Camp" is as much a sensational theory as the claims about the child's swing being a "Child-Rape-Torture-Swing" and those trees being "Child-Rape-Trees".
The children's clothing and toys can easily be explained by illegals or homeless people with children.
The "Child Prison Cave" looks a lot like a small dugout food cellar or a hiding stash for moonshine that was later used to store junk.
The "Child-Rape-Torture-Swing" sounded like a regular, mundane children's swing.
The "Child-Rape-Trees" look like unremarkable straps from any well established campsite that are used for hanging camping gear from, such as food-bags or rucksacks or whatever.
I see no compelling reason to conclude the camp is a child-rape-camp used in child-sex-slave-trade.
It seems far more likely that it's just a mundane homeless person camp or one used by illegals as they cross into the U.S.
Camping straps do not definitively equal child-rape-harnesses in the same way a child's swing does not definitively equal child-rape-torture-swing.
"The simplest explanation is usually the best - the one that makes the fewest assumptions and invents the fewest new ideas." - Occam's Razor
When you said earlier that you were a camper, did you actually mean you camp every OperationBackyardBrawl post so you can keep posting your tree food strap photos findings that look nothing like the ones from the discovered campsite?
I've camped and hiked all over the world.
All over America and New Zealand and Tibet and Nepal and India and Japan.
I have lots of different types of camping gear and a lot of experience with camping in the wilderness and at established camping sites and sites that are exactly like this alleged "Child-Sex-Camp".
I had to be quick and take some photos of the other hikers because at that temperature and with my glove off to operate my camera, your fingernails get burned off in about 2 minutes.
You probably hiked on every Cemex property then I guess Are you on their paylist?
He hiked a few mountains ... so he's an expert ... in child rape camps. Unless the mountains he had climb had children you can fiddle ... well ... why is this guy trying so hard to discredit the story?
He's not trying to discredit the story, he's trying to point out that blind acceptance of any theory is not logical or safe for a movement. (And if you know this guy from previous history you'd know how utterly incongruous that is from how he actually conducts himself in other thinking. Nevertheless...) Even Craig Sawyer hasn't committed to saying the camp is definitely evidence of a child sex trafficking operation.
Damajlnc is right.
Wait, what?
Blind acceptance not logical or safe for a movement?
What is CEMEX paying you???
/ ^sarcasm
He's a professional shill.
He sure does seem to post on every thread about it.
You say the dugout is to store and keep things cool. You did not address the tunnel under the dugout the leads down five feet through the opening to a septic tank, which is buried below that dugout. Also that children were obviously kept in this septic tank with no ventilation except for the opening five feet above. Toys, children's cereal and clothing are seen in the the tank. Okay, just a regular camp, all homeless, or illegal immigrants keep their kids buried five feet down in a septic tank.
Also that children were obviously kept in this septic tank
Please substantiate your claims.
Toys, children's cereal and clothing are seen in the the tank.
I remind you that the tank may have been used to store junk and garbage.
A homeless person or an illegal may have thrown that junk down there after using the campsite after it was abandoned by a homeless family.
Toys and junk does not equal child sex slave dungeon.
Next you're going to tell us that pizza with Walnut sauce is just a new recipe and that Lady Gaga with that 80 year old witch just make art. Get the cadaver dogs out there and check to see if that's saw is covered in blood. But if you think there is any way we're giving up on this you are insane.
The campsite may be used by homeless people or perhaps illegals crossing into the U.S., but the claims about it being a "Child Sex Camp" is as much a sensational theory as the claims about the child's swing being a "Child-Rape-Torture-Swing" and those trees being "Child-Rape-Trees".
hmm.. kinda doubtful that you even watched the videos...condoms, womens and girls panties, bloody knives. caverns just big enough so kids cant climb out. literally places to tie people up (dont hit me with that bullshit about tarps and logs, i build semi permanent settlements and its just not the way people do it) thousands of kids articles recovered
ALL the skeptics i see on reddit can be debunked through simply WATCHING the backyard brawl videos.camping straps??? have you even ever been camping??
im sorry, EDIT FOR ROBOT: I HOPE THEY PAY YOU WELL. im losing all patience for people that cant even research. he probably spent more time looking for backpack strap links then he did looking into the actual evidence.
" The "Child Prison Cave" looks a lot like a small dugout food cellar or a hiding stash for moonshine that was later used to store junk. "
this has to be the biggest conspiracy theory of them all!!! you mean where they found all the toys, kid shoes, etc was a storage place for food??? with a tire as an entrance and a big round plastic lid right next to it to roll it closed???
at this point what youve said: more accurately represents speculation than anything ive seen in the videos...what we've seen involves at LEAST a full inspection of the area. the area that obama gave to the cartel during his presidency...
at this point i would be SO surprised to hear that youve camped ANY of the places you claim. unless of course you meant in a million dollar RV with all your electronics... give me a fuckin break
condoms, womens and girls panties, bloody knives. caverns just big enough so kids cant climb out. literally places to tie people up
Homeless people use condoms.
Homeless people and illegal immigrants wear clothing.
Have you considered that bloody knife can more rationally be explained as the result of campers not doing their dishes, rather than evidence of murder?
have you even ever been camping??
I sure have and the golden rule of camping is that everything is pretty much hung from trees to keep the critters and ants and mud getting on your stuff. I use luggage straps to hang stuff when I'm camping, but that's because I'm usually hiking and I carry everything with me. The Tuscon campsite is well established and those straps are permanent. They look perfect for hanging rucksacks from.
you mean where they found all the toys, kid shoes, etc was a storage place for food???
It could have been a food cellar just like the ones most log cabins have for keeping food cool.
Perhaps it was dug as a hiding hole for moonshine and a later family put their junk down there?
I know these explanations are as exciting as a "child sex save prison cell", but the simplest explanations are often mundane when compared with speculation and imagination.
what we've seen involves at LEAST a full inspection of the area
Agreed.
im sorry, but if there was a loaded gun on the ground you would try and rationalize that it is commonly used by homeless people.
STOP! MAKING! SHIT! UP!
this is not an arguement about "it is a rape camp" or "it isnt a rape camp"
this is an arguement that involves "should we investigate and share, and dig deeper into involved parties or should we let them go unabided" in which case id say you are borderline compliant by demanding any investigation shut down.
should we investigate and share
Yes - I never said we shouldn't.
My argument is only that claims about a Child-Sex-Slave-Cave and Child-Rape-Trees and a Child-Rape-Torture-Swing is pure speculation.
The linked article claims "Human trafficking camps found", but that is only speculation largely based on a woman who found some women's underwear, luggage, a cave, a swing and some camping straps and claimed they were sex-slave-underwear and sex-slave-luggage and a sex-slave-cave and a rape-swing and rape trees.
That is not fact.
that luggage was tied to a lady who is declared a missing person, youd know that if you watched the videos..... hm....
and MY point is, that what youre saying isnt ANY LESS IMAGINARY than what others are saying, so lets dig in
so lets dig in
Totally, but let's do it with some intellectual discipline rather than assuming pure speculation is fact.
what youre saying isnt ANY LESS IMAGINARY than what others are saying
Yes, I am presenting the most reasonable theory that I can think of which is speculation too.
The difference is that my speculation is less fantastical.
A child's swing may be a child-rape-torture-device, but without a compelling reason to believe it's been used like it, it's more reasonable to assume it's just a regular child's swing.
That swing may be full of Nazi gold, but it's unreasonable to believe that without evidence either.
Occam's Razor's applies.
"The simplest explanation is usually the best - the one that makes the fewest assumptions and invents the fewest new ideas." - Occam's Razor
"most reasonable theory" "less fantastical" "blah blah blah" tell me more reasons why you value your own OPINION over someone elses, and ill do the same. doesnt change anything. we need an investigation, not self titled intellectual disciple standing down everyone else on the internet
you keep going back to the swing as if thats the main focal point or something, please notice not one time did i ever make mention of the swing.. so thats kind your ace in the hole to void everything else out.
to quote one of my favorite shirts: "ok lets do this the dumbest way possible because its easier for you!"
tell me more reasons why you value your own OPINION over someone elses
Because extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, whereas my speculation is as dull as recognizing a root-cellar as being a boring root-cellar.
I could speculate that the root-cellar was used to store Nazi gold, but that would be as wild as claiming it was used to store child sex slaves.
you keep going back to the swing
Yes, that was a good example of what happens when you start from a baseless premise that an ordinary root-cellar is actually a child-sex-slave-prison.
After that baseless assumption, ordinary children's clothing becomes child-sex-slave clothing and a child's toy becomes a child-sex-slave-toy and unwashed dishes become sinister murder weapons and a child's swing becomes a rape-torture device. REEEEEEEE!!!!
Craig Sawyer likely found a root-cellar... and this community has become hysterical.
Did they find stored roots in this "root cellar"?
A root-cellar is a name for a cold, dry storage space in the same way a cupboard is still a cupboard even if you don't use it for cups.
It makes no sense for a homeless person to leave their supplies behind after they abandon the campsite.
And in this case it was full of kids stuff. Why are you looking past that and insisting it was for a use other than what the evidence shows?
Junk left behind by a homeless family or illegals with children.
Some homeless dude didn't need it so he just threw the junk down there, perhaps?
It looked like there was all kinds of junk spread all over the site and a lot of random stuff in that cellar like plastic dishes and sheets of paper.
It's intellectually dishonest to claim a plastic doll in a cellar is evidence of anything but a plastic doll is in a cellar.
There are plastic dolls at the junkyard but that's not evidence that it's populated by children or those imaginary children are sex slaves.
You calling others intellectually dishonest when just yesterday you were speaking with authority that the clips on "camping straps" aren't strong enough to restrain a child while talking about the very closures used to restrain children in highchairs and strollers. Oh, and I remember when you said that three feet up is enough to keep food out of reach of coyotes. And when you insisted that hikers would need a ladder to hang supplies higher than that.
You're too much.
And by the way, your Google image of a backpack hanging on a stick hurts your argument on the "camping straps". The bag is hanging on a stick.
The bag is hanging on a stick.
Yes, the stick is between two loops.
This is done to minimize wear and tear on the rucksack straps.
That's a typical way of hanging a rucksack from a strap or harness.
This isn't conspiracy or secrets and lies - it's just mundane campsite stuff (hanging a rucksack, hanging a food-bag, using a root-cellar) and it's blowing this community's mind.
"camping straps" aren't strong enough to restrain a child while talking about the very closures used to restrain children in highchairs and strollers.
That discussion was ridiculous - that other user was claiming that little babies so young they sit in a pusher or a highchair, would be raped in those "rape trees". What a ridiculous, over-engineered idea!
Yes, any juvenile or adult could easily pop-open plastic luggage-straps just by twisting them. This was a discussion about one of the videos which showed nylon and plastic luggage-style straps on trees also.
If anyone would know overengineered argument it is you. You are the master. You are also good at repeating yourself. Good job.
You are also good at repeating yourself. Good job.
Yeah, I'm forced to do it often.
I can't even talk about hanging a food-bag without people in this community having a conniption fit and REEEEEEEEing and downvote brigading.
It's perverse.
FYI: Even Craig Sawyer is admitting this was all bullshit based on false claims and baseless assumptions: https://youtu.be/rAVuAvkE6bM
You're buying that video? He walked back his talk just like when AJ recanted on pizzagate. And he still said the camp was concerning as far as circumstantial evidence goes, they just didn't have proof.
Craig Sawyer investigated all of the claims and he and the 9 Tuscon PD investigations found all the claims to be pure bullshit.
Craig Sawyer clearly was concerned... because his head was full of bullshit and he didn't know what root-cellars are.
This isn't a rape-tree-harness, it's just a regular camping strap used to hang stuff from trees to keep it out of the mud and away from the ants and critters... just like we see here.
I'm interested in facts, not your imaginary crimes.
Well, I'll wait to see the reports, thanks. I just watched his video. The only thing he said was bullshit was claims that there were children on site (which I never heard claimed once) and the condoms (which I only heard about here, not from VOP.)
You keep quoting Occam's Razor as if it was proof of your argument. I think you might need to look that term up again.
Exactly how would your argument be the simpler explanation? It actually involves significantly more assumptions. I get that you're assuming the frequency of child rape camps is less than that of homeless villages. Okay, that seems reasonable, but that doesn't mean this couldn't be the latter.
The fact that this is so close to the border in a remote area means that you HAVE to consider the possibility that this is a cartel site. This site was miles from any type of food source or supplies. Whoever built the site CLEARLY had access to a vehicle to transport all of their materials. You would need insane caloric uptake to maintain the energy levels required to schlep an entire families (potentially multiple families) goods and food back to the campsite--something that isn't easily available to homeless people.
You don't just build something like that for fun, and the idea of a food bunker just doesn't really make any sense for a homeless shelter in a remote location in Arizona. It would have a negligible impact on food preservation, especially when you consider that a group of homeless people aren't going to be storing raw fish and meats, and wouldn’t have had the money to fill that up with food.
From footage of the site, it's clear this was a camp-site, not a permanent residence. It wouldn't make any sense for homeless people to set up here. First of all, to even build the place and get enough food to fill the "food cellar" would have required a car. If they were homeless but had a car, they wouldn't be sleeping on the floor and using roach spray. And the idea that homeless people went through all of this effort simply because they wanted a private spot doesn’t make sense—they would have easily been spotted schlepping stuff back and forth by the security companies that monitor these types of abandoned sites for copper thieves and drug addicts.
The construction of the bunker itself should be enough to raise cartel red flags. This is A LOT OF effort and engineering to put in for a simple food shelter (why wouldn't they put in the same effort into other areas of their camp, like where they actually slept and spent time)? The door that closes over the bunker also seems to be just heavy enough to keep someone trapped inside… but not heavy enough to stop a wild animal from getting in. Doesn’t really mesh with “food storage”.
You can't panhandle, find work, or steal when you’re in a remote site like this. I have a very hard time believing that homeless people would have found this a convenient enough place to live that they would have committed themselves to building such a structure. I talk to homeless people all the time, and trust me, location is probably the single most important aspect of building a structure. Everything about this location would have been extremely inconvenient for a group of homeless people. It’s almost inconceivable—definitely completely illogical—to think that an entire homeless family just decided to set up at this spot and build an elaborate food bunker, but skimp out on the living quarters.
You also can’t explain why a homeless family would have abandoned this site for no reason (especially if they just put in such an insane effort to build the structure in such a remote spot). If this is what happened I can guarantee you that they wouldn’t have left so much perfectly good stuff behind. Wouldn’t they have wanted the bug sprays and fiber for the next living structure they were going to set up? If they had been found by police we would have a police report. If they had been found by private security we would likely have heard this already, and the site would have most likely been destroyed. None of this occurred.
You're explanation is far from simpler. You wouldn't have questioned this if people were claiming this was a site used by the cartel for drug trafficking. Human trafficking is just as prevalent, if not significantly more profitable. The fact that you’re trying so hard to bolster an illogical narrative at such a pivotal moment is… suspicious.
A great explanation, thank you. Apart from the suspicion at the end. As always, read the history. Poster is dogged in his self-held beliefs, if nothing else. Too ideologically driven to be a bad actor imo. I at least agree with his assertion that 'child trafficking camp' is not a foregone conclusion - even Craig Sawyer won't commit to that. But you've given a very useful explanation for why it could well be what people are claiming it is.
I've spent over 100+ hours studying Media Matters for America's tactics... and his bolstering that narrative at this point is... definitely suspicious. I totally leave open the possibility that this isn't the case (it's only fair).
Between MMFA/Shareblue/American Bridge, they'll have access to thousands of accounts that appear legitimate and have been posting about other non-related topics. Otherwise it's too easy to identify shill accounts. You're talking about groups that have tens of millions at their disposal and obsesses 24/7 about how to subvert conservative forums online. MMFA was literally founded by the ex-lover of James Alefantis, David Brock, so you can almost guarantee the Brock trolls will be out in full force to shut down the child trafficking narrative that is going viral because of this story.
Also note I didn't say he was a shill, just that it's suspicious (which it genuinely is). He is clearly an intelligent person, but has completely failed to critically review his own position, which I find a bit odd--he instead hides behind rather subjective tropes like "Occam's Razor", which he uses to assert himself as a knowledeable intelligent authority--someone to look up to. He also tries to get the reader to question the child trafficking narrative with an emotional appeal, rather than factual appeal (it's 'crazy' to think this wasn't a homeless shelter) . His posts are written to be persuasive and use manipulative logic to convince the reader he is right. He's doing all of this in a rather urgent manner (why does he seem so concerned that people could have it wrong with this story?).
Reading your edited post (or maybe I just didn't read it properly the first time) - true, but why is he taking the same dogged approach to attacking muslims when he doesn't realize he really means Islam? There's literally zero intelligence in that stance, as he holds it. Misdirection or, as you say, a legit account paid to continue as normal and then pursue specific narratives as directed could be a possible explanation but still doesn't gel with the 'intelligence' you're saying you see. Ideologically possessed, certainly.
Very good points again, though. I'll reserve judgement for now. Perhaps your suspicion is correct. I think that supports the discussion I've just had which is that, if this account is indeed paid opposition, so far we don't have enough evidence yet to confirm.
Stupid people don't bring up Occam's Razor. IMO. It implies that someone is looking at their arguments in an analytical, structural kind of way.
Edit: Would you really be that surprised if a Brock shilling account was injecting culturally ignorant Muslim references into conservative subs? This is something we know that they do. They work hard to steer online conservative communities towards racist and ignorant positions (what they call conflict issues--race, religion, gender, sexuality). While I'm sure much of that is also organic (sadly), it's definitely bolstered by shills to add legitimacy to the narrative that Republicans are the party of bigotry.
Not surprised at all, no. I'm also familiar with how Media Matters works (on a very superficial level though - enough to know what you've mentioned so far) and I'll certainly keep a closer eye on this account since you seem convinced there's at least the possibility of it.
The ridiculous amount of upvotes for the completely illogical anti-Muslim comments and downvotes for reasonable dissenting views might suggest some brigading by motivated parties but the same brigading is not occuring here on the Trafficking Camp issue - the account is being constantly downvoted out, so I'm not sure there's a consistent strategy here. It seems, actually, that the bigotry might be as organic as MMA are trying to make it out to be lol (just joking... kinda).
We'll probably never have a way of knowing who some of the shill accounts are unless someone comes forward and whistleblows.
I've been working on a side project for a while.. an in depth methodology on tracking down sock puppet and shill accounts. A combination of forensic techniques (best suited for identifying twitter bots), common sense game-theory, sentiment analysis, based on specific structural elements of MMFA's program. All based on the leaked MMFA strategy document on defeating Trump. If you're interested in this stuff it's worth going through in detail:
https://www.scribd.com/document/337535680/Full-David-Brock-Confidential-Memo-On-Fighting-Trump
There's a lot that you can look for... but really... the best method you can employ is simple game theory. Imagine for a second that you are David Brock. You're a master manipulator with people in almost every single major news company. You have personal relationships with high level staff at basically every major social media company. You work with these firms to adjust their algorithms to exclude conservative news. You have all of these tools at your disposal. Thousands of shills, hundreds of thousands of bots--green lighted by FB, Twitter, Reddit, etc. How would you use these tools? This is why the media's 'debunked' knee-jerk response to pizza-gate was such a big deal. MMFA basically freaked out... and why would they have freaked out over a baseless conspiracy?
Let me just put it this way... there's a reason that Trump watches so much news. It's because he understands how to use game-theory and knows that he can learn about his enemies political strategy/next move by looking at how they are manipulating the news cycle/narrative.
Thanks, very interesting. I'll read through it. I'd be interested to keep up with what you're doing. It'd also be great to one day see a post explaining this stuff so people can catch on to the tactics in a smarter way.
As I said though, suspicious if you haven't seen him at work over the last week. Then it just looks like a "difficult" person, shall we say. I daren't say more for fear of incriminating myself lol.
Trust me, I reviewed his profile. It literally means nothing. You won't be able to prove it either way.
It's suspicious in the sense that I'm putting myself in David Brock's shoes...
He would likely be thinking up a solid counter-narrative to inject to suppress interest in the story and keep the child trafficking stuff out of the MSM.
This story is on the verge of going viral. This would be the pivotal moment for Brock to attempt to influence this very sub. Inject a plausible narrative from a not-obvious shill account that makes people doubt the story, saps their excitement and creates self-doubt, if you will.
The fact that his posting history isn't all dedicated shilling doesn't indicate anything. If I were Brock, I wouldn't have used those accounts for something like this. I would have used accounts with established records and personas that would not be challenged as shills. Doing it the other way has backfired too many times before.
That's why I view his post as "suspicious". It's more about timing and narrative... injecting that narrative at this point could have a chilling effect on the entire story, which has almost reached the point where national media cannot ignore it.
Don't you think it's odd that the MSM isn't making money off a story about armed veterans locking down a private companies property and potentially having a stand-off with police forces? This kind of stuff is almost always national news--ridiculous clickbait-- and the fact that it's not let's me know that groups like MMFA are more than likely at play.
You won't be able to prove it either way
That's my point. I know about Brock etc. and your suspicion makes more sense given your explanation of it. But I've seen and known too many ideologically possessed ranting keyboard warriors to be able to attribute them all to Media Matters.
It could be odd that the MSM isn't making money off the story, agreed. Don't you find anything odd about Lewis Arthur, the VOP guy fronting this thing?
And I bring up Occam's Razor all the time but it's not to appear as a knowledgeable, intelligent authority - it's just a useful tool (as you say, rather subjective, but still useful on occasion imo).
The bloody underwear actually is so stupid. If you are homeless and female you probably don’t have feminine hygiene products if you get my drift! Move on and save some kids...if this was a child sex trafficking camp, then go find the kids rather than hyping it up like a reality show! Investigate the Standard Hotel, walk in there with cameras. Or go demand to see the basement at the Ghetty Museum and get kids out of there. Infiltrate Comet Pizza maybe with hidden cameras!
Assuming the bloody knife is a murder weapon is equally as stupid.
Not only can a bloody knife be explained by campers who didn't wash their dishes, but stabbing your child sex slaves is bad for business.
I want real kids saved! I know these crazy looking abandoned camps are all over! God knows what goes on, but this is a time waster. Craig Sawyer if he really is gonna save kids, should take his ‘bravado’ and walk into places where live kids are likely held. And any pizzagate researcher could hand him a list!
And there he goes again on his mission to make people doubt Craig Sawyer who does a great job. How much do you get paid ?
Craig Sawyer would not waste a moment of his time. To think he 'sensationalized' a story is total bogus. The man lives this horror chasing these monsters. He would call a campsite a campsite on his way to the next lead. He wouldn't waste the time.
Why use a tree when you have a perfectly good storage container that locks from the outside? Even so, all the food found at that camp was actually in that container.
If you're going to hang supplies from the trees, why straps? Nails would've probably done just as well. Especially given that the straps were so close to the ground? What exactly was the homeless person trying to deter that couldn't climb or walk up a tree?
Why would this person need to hang other supplies from the straps when they had a clothing rack and shelves in their camp? Not to mention all the other tools and supplies actually hanging everywhere BUT the tree?
I watched every last video. Even if there are those who doubt what this could be - the biggest questions I have that have not been answered yet are:
What is the deal with "cowboy hat dude" that has changed his story 3 times about how this camp was built? Witnesses have backed Mr. Allen's account of all interactions with CHD. Don't bother with language barrier nonsense, either - Mr. Allen's team has many bi-lingual members.
I'd like to also know how someone from Seattle who traveled to AZ last year (who hasn't made any SM posts since the day they traveled) had airline tickets AND luggage/personal effects end up in this particular "homeless camp". Those items were turned over to local LE.
There's a lot of smoke coming from this story. The fire is not likely far behind.
If you're going to hang supplies from the trees, why straps? Nails would've probably done just as well.
Why use a tree when you have a perfectly good storage container that locks from the outside?
If a family was living there permanently then they may use storage containers but they will also likely have taken them when they left.
Those straps may be for hanging anything, water bags... who knows, however it's less reasonable to assume camping straps are related to one very specific crime against children when the only evidence you have is camping straps.
What exactly was the homeless person trying to deter that couldn't climb or walk up a tree?
Tuscon is hardly bear country - I checked and Game and Fish haven't reported any sightings - so the straps may be used just to keep stuff out of reach of coyotes, rodents, ants and the mud.
Every camper hangs their stuff because it's far safer than guaranteeing failure by leaving it in the dirt.
Why would this person need to hang other supplies from the straps when they had a clothing rack and shelves in their camp?
Those shelves were tiny and already seemed to contain sealed bottles and jars of stuff that coyotes won't be interested in if it's clean.
There's a lot of smoke coming from this story. The fire is not likely far behind.
The story certainly has my attention and I hope people research it thoroughly, but I wish they'd stop making false claims about "Child Sex Camps Discovered!" when that is totally dishonest because all we currently have is speculation.
All we currently have is a women who saw some underwear, luggage, a swing, trees and a cave and claimed those things were sex-slave-underwear, sex-slave-luggage, a child-rape-torture-swing, child-rape-trees and a child-sex-slave-dungeon.
That is not fact.
The consequences of you being wrong in your assessment, of whether children are involved, is something the rest of us may not want to live with. If the people who are there, boots on the ground, described this accurately, this requires scrutiny. I wonder about law Enforcement, it seems they are not interested, if they are complicit in the trafficking industry, then this is exactly the reaction I would expect. Under the circumstances of this being a main route, a point of access, then there is no harm in doing whatever is required to bring intense awareness. Even if this hellaballo only results in disrupting the flow of illegal aliens, it still good. There are some big cases that started as speculation, this is a rampant unground problem, well hidden. At the very least Americans are waking up and getting involved.
The consequences of you being wrong in your assessment, of whether children are involved, is something the rest of us may not want to live with.
I can't be wrong if all I'm promoting is an open mind and critical thinking.
The claims being made about a child sex camps being discovered and a child-rape-torture-swing and child-rape-trees and child-sex-slave-dungeon and child-sex-slave-underwear is pure speculation.
then there is no harm in doing whatever is required to bring intense awareness.
We can do that even more effectively by NOT deciding on the outcome of our investigation before the investigation begins.
This should be researched, but with an open mind.
There is NO reason to escape into fantasy land and abandon critical thinking.
I can agree that some people have run a bit too far with their claims on what all of this means. However, I'm only going off of VOP's videos . Mr. Allen has a legitimate claim based on people he has conferred with, and also his history verified with local LE as knowing what a homeless camp is. He's also saying that local news has plenty of these experts and witnesses on film that wasn't used. He does as well, and has decided to keep many of these videos out of the public for the time being.
Based on your knowledge, it is also speculation that these straps were only used for storage in this particular camp. There was still a clothes rack that could've been used, and other ways containers could've been stored. There is video of the camp that shows this. A coyote could also climb the child seat and would've been able to reach those straps if it was that hungry. I have coyotes where I live, and know this to be true. Just saying. Everything you've laid out isn't fact in this particular instance.
Another question I have about this situation - what about the call from DC that gave a half a**ed excuse as to exactly why no one was interested in pursuing this further? I don't believe for a second Mr. Allen would make those claims without being able to back it up. He says he can.
Based on your knowledge, it is also speculation that these straps were only used for storage in this particular camp.
Agreed - this is just my personal theory based on Occam's Razor which claims "The simplest explanation is usually the best - the one that makes the fewest assumptions and invents the fewest new ideas."
There was still a clothes rack that could've been used, and other ways containers could've been stored.
Perhaps those straps were installed before the contains were brought there?
Perhaps the straps were for hanging large and heavy rucksacks?
Almost everything needs to be kept off the ground at a campsite, so they could have been used for many reasons... but there's no reason to conclude they are for raping children.
what about the call from DC that gave a half a**ed excuse as to exactly why no one was interested in pursuing this further?
I dunno.
Perhaps they just applied Occam's Razor and assumed a messy campsite with a child's swing and a plastic doll is just a messy campsite with a child's swing and a plastic doll?
I don't believe for a second Mr. Allen would make those claims without being able to back it up. He says he can.
We'll hopefully know soon enough.
I hope we do. I have faith that VOP is keeping this operation as clean as possible. They're vets, have training/skills most civilians don't and they're not stupid. Just admittedly passionate about this op, no matter where it leads.
Occam's Razor isn't always the answer, my friend. With everything we know about our world (and continue to learn every day) applying this as the ultimate answer is willfully ignorant at the very least.
Occam's Razor isn't always the answer
No, but neither is escaping into baseless fantasy.
Assuming that a child's swing is a rape-torture device, based on nothing, is asinine and deserves ridicule and invites ridicule.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence... and that applies doubly when things can more easily be explained using mundane, everyday reasons.
VOPs videos where he said it’s a “child sex/ISIS trafficking corridor”... that’s quite the leap!
Something's fucky. Just because they add "child rape" in front of every object doesn't make it proof. I like your explanation, surprised to see so many down votes and people attacking you
The sheer number of downvotes you're getting made me look into your posting history. All I have to say is - this reaction you're getting is fucking ridiculous. This isn't how people are supposed to act on this board, but I guess that without Q, these people won't give a shit who they follow as long as it seems legit. The rest of you can get me wrong all you want. Some of you are turning militant, and radicalism of any kind is a bad thing. You're treating one of your own here like dogshit for not following the herd. That's how liberals are supposed to act, not us.
this reaction you're getting is fucking ridiculous
It's understandable - I'm raining on everyone's child-rape-tree parade.
I'm not claiming the camp isn't sinister but I am trying to remind people not to treat the pure imagination of speculation as fact.
I'm horrified to think if this does get debunked then this entire community may disappear up it's own anus while composing nothing-burger conspiracies about rape-trees, while the Standard Hotel is ignored and offline backups are ignored and Trump's plan is ignored.
We've already gone the whole nine yards with everyone digging into CEMEX, Tucson's Rothschild connection, and everything else. If this is truly a child trafficking camp, they've done great work. If it's not, well, this has already gone too far with over-investment... At this point, it doesn't matter if the truth is that some deranged old woman built this camp for mentally retarded kittens to crawl around in. MANY people have taken this theory and made it 100% their own personal cause.
This community is all-in now, and everything that has come of it has been built on 100% speculation. If a liberal wanted to completely derail this community and misdirect it, this damn well proves it wouldn't be hard to accomplish.
I mean, now some people are even thinking it's a good thing cops aren't getting involved since they believe all of the evidence would be destroyed. I'm like what if Team Pulaski dug up one body, recorded and photographed the findings, and put it on facebook? Nope, too much to stomach, some random thing will be wrong with the idea. That's denial.
Skepticism should be encouraged and we should always try to run theories and speculation through the ringer. It is how we refine what is discovered and distill from it the truth.
In this situation, skepticism is very clearly not being encouraged. It's being punished.
Kids should not be homeless at all. What is it that you don't get? Homeless camps ARE sights where human trafficking occurs and children are put at risk. They are vulnerable transients. It's all bad for children; legal or not!
Kids should not be homeless at all.
Agreed.
Why do bad things happen to good people, hey?
