Is power armor a vidya joke or does it actually have potential?
In our lifetime, it's just a joke
Until they solve the power requirement, which won't be anytime soon, it's most assuredly a meme. If we do get the technology, whether or not it's a meme is going to depend how much more destructive man-portable weapons have become compared to how far materials science has advanced. In general, weapons development tends to outpace armor/defense development very quickly, and while that gap has closed a bit for infantry only, nothing on a larger scale in the past couple years, chances are that trend will remain the same over time. In which case, the juice won't be worth the squeeze for power armor and it will see limited use in all but the most niche scenarios. If the trend bucks and defensive tech kept better pace with offensive tech, it might see some use in certain circumstances and with certain troops, although the expense would likely mean it's not worth it for general infantry.
In the distant future it might work but for now the closest we can feasibly get while still reaching for the stars is an exoskeleton.
This, until we can get something that is basically a sci-fi miniaturised (in both volume and weight) powerplant they are going to be limited to use as very restricted loading/construction exoskeletons. It might not make a soldier immune to small arms and most AT weapons, but having a worker lift things weighing half a ton all day long without breaking a sweat is still kind of impressive.
>Fingerless gloves
This is why you shouldn't take the American military serious anymore.
Doesn't make sense for personal armor. A naked dude can dash to and hide behind a rock and gain infinity armor, whereas your robodude is stuck slowly walking and getting hit by everything.
The only time it makes sense is if you want to carry some more supplies per soldier in the most expensive way possible. Pic related is if you want to do that cheaply.
>slips in mud
Nah, power armor encourages a move up to 20mm autocanno fire, and using 40mm HEAT against to smallest units.
For military use? The cost of fielding AP ammo vs the cost of armor would make it essentially useless. The exo-skeleton stripped of armor platting would be 1000x more useful.
It has a lot more potential for law enforcement kind of situations. It is unlikely that gang-bangers would get their hands on AP, or would be smart enough to make their own. (At least to my knowledge)
I have a feeling something like the mini mechs in avatar will come about in a few decades. Power could be provided by something like a wankel rotary engine, not stealthy, but they'll probably have 20mm assult cannons, so fuck stealth.
>The cost of fielding AP ammo vs the cost of armor would make it essentially useless
Depends on armor strength. For example your picture. Lowests end of Space Marine Armor puts at vulnerable to standard HE Bolter fire. Which is silly. Highest end of bog standard(where did that term come from? whatever) puts it at resistant against explosives significantly more powerful, with the thickest bits resistant against RPG7 and 100mm recoiless rifles and only the most vulnerable parts vulnerable to 20mm AP.
But even just all around resistance to 20mm API means something very fucking relevant, it means extreme resistance to FRAGMENTATION damage. When you are forced to use RPG7 and above in the direct fire context against an enemy soldier to guarantee a casualty, not a kill, a casualty, then that soldier is likely IMMUNE to area of effect fragmentation and indirect high explosive fire from anything smaller than 155mm artillery. They might even survive being thrown around by it from a close boom.
So even if if the armor in question is only all around immune to 7.62x54r API, that also by default increases survivability against explosives.Immunity to .50cal straight up means you can ignore frag grenades tossed into your immediate area.
>>626809
>fucking AT rifle to the battlefield already means winning.
Heavy Machine Guns and anti tank weaponry is already standard fare for insurgencies, along with bigass IEDs. Thanks, Soviet Russia.
Like others have stated, power and expenses are the drawbacks regarding field use of power armor. Exoskeletons in military use would most likely be used in supplementary roles like handling large amounts of amunition or transporting equipment on foot. Even then, power is still a major concern and wpuld likely restrict the exoskeletons to on base use. Unless it's something like a diesel engine attached to a basic frame, at that point a forklift is more cost effective. Also;
>Ultramarines
>Not Imperial Fists, Salamanders, or Blood Angels
Definitely a possibility, but it's still a question of cost benefit analysis. PA is going to be fuckall expensive.
Conventional artillery produces tiny fragments, think steel toothpicks, they'll shread unarmored vehicles, infantry, and even armored vehicles if they're close enough to the blast, as the fragments are still moving at a higher velocity. Anything armored that can take a 20mm can shrug off anything but a very near Miss or direct hit. Nice compared to the 150meter radius kill zone for a modern 155mm frag shell.
What will probably happen is a change in shell design to incorporate larger fragments, or purpose built projectiles, tungsten balls/flechettes. It will lower the killzone but increase armor lethality.
Maybe more exoskeleton type stuff. Getting a dude in a mechanical frame that can carry a ton of weight is a fine way to load him up with thicker heavy duty armor, probably a decently big gun too if the suit has some sort of stabilization thing going on.
The biggest challenges would be the power supply, making the wearer/pilot doesn't overheat or otherwise be at risk from the suit's function, designing the actual suit to be good armor (I don't think making thicker plate would work here), and of course the helmet. Last one is actually a pretty big one, a few ways around it from just leaving it as the weak link with a glass or other transparent visor to look out of it to adding a camera and screen to it. VR can potentially help with this, maybe even giving the user wider field of vision. Though that has the problem of power consumption and sensitive electronics which might be damaged by gunfire.
Another problem is just space. Like a dude's legs are only so wide apart, you can't really armor the inside that much without making movement a pain. Plus each suit would need to be adjustable or custom to one user.
So it's plausible, not really practical but it could be done given some work.
More realistically I'd figure we'll get mechs first. Not the bipedal ones, as great as it sounds to have a walking mech wheels or treads are usually fine. So really they'd basically be a tank with arms instead of a cannon, smaller ones but still they could have more versatile applications, carry some good guns, and still have the finesse for fine tasks. I'm not sure how useful this would be, but on the engineering side it's easier.
Wow I didn't know about them actually existing. Does this mean I was born to be an engineer?
why though? a human is a very good general shape but its almost never the best shape for any particular purpose
power armor is basically just makeing a human shaped tank, but a tank shaped tank is much more efficent
for the same reason we wont see mechas, a jet shaped jet is better then a human shaped jet
Wouldn't it be easier to just use drones if the problem with energy source was solved? They can fly, carry stuff just as well, do not eat, sleep or even breathe, thus making chemical or biological weapons less useful instead of relying on some pacts and treaties. They can even be automated and emp shielded if situation so requires. The only problem with that would be a threat to bystanders but it's largely a non-issue with military applications. Where these suits would be useful is in localized conflicts where creating fortifications or mass destruction would be cumbersome, like protection, infiltration, urban warfare, police functions, home defense, basically anything that might find use for a serious cover that you carry with yourself but using an automated machine is dangerous or ineffective.
>>626809
>forcing the enemy to carry a fucking AT rifle to the battlefield already means winning
Unless the guy 'carrying' them is wearing or more likely driving a powered exoskeleton which happily takes the weight of two 40mm auto-cannons (which seem a better bet than AT rifles) and a 2-300 rounds of HESH or APHE rounds, and maybe the electronics needed to computerise the fire control, give the auto-cannons a decent range of motion and tracking speed and they can engage targets about as fast as the soldier can designate them.
>But that's completely impractical!
Yes, but as we're talking about something that would still be sci-fi 50 odd years from now I don't think that's a problem.
>Dude, it's still retarded!
and when has that ever stopped a military purchasing decision?
>>626808
Are you the same gook who advocated for the use of “power swords”?
>>626849
Oh yeah, you are entirely correct there. Until powered armour is as cheap as modern kevlar it will be impossible or maybe just retarded. You might be able to use it as specialist kit for very carefully chosen and trained units in about 50 years, but until then it's just a sci-fi fantasy. I do rather enjoy indulging n sci-fi fantasies though. Although when it gets to the point I described in >>626848 there's not much point in leaving the human in the system (with any luck by then the senior staff officers will have cooled the fuck down when it comes to automation in warfare).
>power armor is basically just makeing a human shaped tank,
A human shaped tank that can fit through doorways, climb stairs, etc. Something a tank shaped tank can't really do. And of course, tanks are (more or less)limited to fixed weaponry, whereas a dude in power armor can just put down whatever he's carrying and pick up something else.
Power armor isn't replacement for tanks, it's replacement for special forces infantry. At least, assuming suitable power sources can be developed.
Won't happen until batteries get small enough. Wearing massive steel plates won't happen any time soon, but polymers are only getting more advanced by the day and plastic armor has a lot of potential.
>>626809
You don't need an AT rifle to penetrate any kind of armor a person could wear.
Modern full body armor is 20lb, and it leaves about 60% of the body unprotected. Any kind of full protection would weigh 50lb, plus equipment and uniform being around 30lb, and pack being 50lb. Meaning a powered suit is still going to offer protection against 7.62AP at best. At which point enemy just goes up a caliber, any kind of normal sniper or general purpose machine gun would have a decent chance of going through.
And that's not even taking about frag grenades, rifle grenades or underbarrel HEAT shells that are available readily everywhere, or shit like flechettes which go clean through armor and don't weigh any more than regular rounds.
Using this powered suit to carry armor is retarded.
>>626813
>RPG7 not a threat
Nigger are you serious? The thermobaric warhead would turn the wearer into marmelade.
What would be the validity of using magnetically powered joints for power armour?
Servos are far too unwieldy for this kind of work and are prone to damage, so what if you had a series of magnets form the joints? As an added bonus it might be possible they could become their own dynamos, although I don't know if that would be viable.
Why do you think the American diet is what it is? America is always ahead of (and growing out) the curve.
If you have body armor that fully covers a person and rarely or plain cannot be penetrated by small arms that is a distinct and major advantage. Yes of course RPGs and anti-tank guns and a gorrillion explosives exist, no shit, but the same way guided anti-tank weaponry existing doesn't make tanks obsolete, the fact that it's not invulnerable doesn't make it useless or negate the fact that it can in fact stop most small arms. Don't think warhammer armor, think 10-20mm of plate that's assisted by motors.
>>626813
Nigger are you retarded? HEAT RPG warhead is specifically designed to punch through tank armor. Human wearable power armor wouldn't stand a chance, if it connects it's game over.
A two-stroke engine is a perfectly suitable power source.
At that point why not limit all international military action to a televised sporting event held in designated locations around the world
>This Sunday forces of the Russian Federation and European Union will meet in the Jungle Combat Zone on Tetepare Island.
>Both sides have agreed to category 2 combat rules, and a force of no more than 1000 men with 5'000 points worth of equipment, vehicles, and/or support.
>The modifications Russia has made to their Mil MI-32 helicopters, bringing them down to 320 points apiece, will certainly be relevant here, but there has been a lot of discussion lately about the EU dropping so many points into their standard communication gear after that debacle in the Southern Thule combat zone.
>Tune in at 11pm GMT this Sunday to see how that works out for them!
>American is terrified of playing a fair game on an even field
Sounds about right.
>Indeed, everything is kind of a sport for the average Brit.
But everything is a sport, Magyar.
>Sport: an activity involving effort and skill in which an individual or group competes to determine which of them is superior
Wasn't the main idea behind power armor/exoskeletons less about providing protection and more about increasing the range and amount of gear of regular infantry?
Sounds horrendously expensive, complex and research intensive, so Lockheed already has the patents and invested +100M USD of taxpayers money into development.
Hasn't there been some research into this meme alloy that grows back together when separated?
Body armor that can repair itself in the field should be of some interest to western CY+3 militaries assuming it costs a fortune to develop, produce and maintain.
>Typical bleak bong views
Don't worry, in a few decades/years you'll know exactly what it feels like to have the world taken away from you by some group of idiots who don't know how to run it. At that point you will understand (and most likely adopt) that sort of world view. We may even see an improvement in the quality of American comedy and humour, what can I say - I live in hope.
The suit in crisis is described as being worth a billion dollars. Even assuming we could develop that tech in the next 10 years (doubt.jpg), could you reliably assume that one man in such a suit would destroy 1 billion+the cost of training him worth of enemy materiel before getting killed? Seeing as one good air strike will still BTFO this soldier, suit or no suit, it's still far too expensive ot be effectively fielded in general use.
If you can make a self-propelled humanoid frame then what's the point of risking soldiers' lives? Sending cheaper more efficient non-humanoid drones with manipulative limbs would make more sense.
>have the world taken away from you by some group of idiots who don't know how to run it.
Because you did so well.
>Seeing as one good air strike
Artillery strike or IED would be more like. Also if anything, Crysis downplayed how devastating the suit's capabilities would be in several respects. And downplayed what all such a suit would or could do.
Also, at a billion dollars that puts into the realm of the B2 Spirits…25 years later, F35's have radar signatures 99% as small. But since Crysis decided to copy Halo and a few other scifis, with a 3rd faction of doom, and copy Resistance:Fall of Man by making that 3rd faction so outrageously powerful that it is simply unbeleivable for them to be beaten, we didn't get to see anything neat after the 1st game.
Nigger, if you use thermobaric warhead, I don't see normal infantry is gonna fair better.
>At which point enemy just goes up a caliber, any kind of normal sniper or general purpose machine gun would have a decent chance of going through.
At that point you win by forcing the enemy to once up their own weapon.
>Using this powered suit to carry armor is retarded.
Powered suit is to carry weapons, armor is just there to protect the wearer.
>start the Hundred Years' War because the butthurt Plantagenets wanted to steal the crown from the rightful Valois rulers.
>Cromwell. Need I say more?
>give the Jews their main source of financial power
>start wars and be responsible for many Europeans dying because muh balance of power
>wreck China's shit, ultimately leading to Mao's rise, because muh free trade
>start wars against the Boers because muh South African dominion that nobody wanted
>enslave and oppress the Quebecois, our brothers Francophone, simply because they were French
>attacked Germany, the greatest civilization on Earth, twice, in the first half of the twentieth century, while letting others bleed for it
The Americans are slaves to Pissrael, sure, but you've allowed them to exist, Anglonigger.
>half the gear that isn't food and ammo, wouldn't make our soldiers MORE effective at this point.
You'd have to redesign everything from the ground-up to save the muhreens' knees, from the last bit of the equipment to the very doctrine of how infantry should be deployed. Currently there isn't a clear idea, so they just keep developing and adding new equipment. Actually, that has been the situation since at least Vietnam. For example, why should the average grunt carry food if he is part of a completely mechanized army, and isn't part of a light infantry formation? And even if he had to carry food, why should he carry it into a firefight when he could just pull 50-100kg of food on that thing >>626785 and leave it behind at a temporal depot?
It makes a lot more sense when you realize the US army in general is primarily to make money, not making sense, which explains Shock & Awe.
Of course, all the generals exist just for the bureaucrat to funnel into more money and bribery.
>>627100
Danke schoen, my good friend Allemagne.
I wonder if the animosity between France and the German Empire could've been somewhat reduced had the French actually surrendered following Napoleon III.'s capture instead of fighting on until January 1871 leading to the loss of the entire province of Alsace and parts of Lorraine to the Germans instead of a few hectares of border territory.
> US army in general is primarily to make money
They're not making money for anyone except defense contractors, which is why washington DC's suburbs are the richest in the US. literally, richest counties in the US. you foreign propaganda types should be hammering that point.
> Of course, all the generals exist just for the bureaucrat to funnel into more money and bribery.
Lol yeah you Chi-Com types would know, asian corruption is an art form. at this point i bet 50% of PLA generals have a house in vancouver
Possibly. I think another important problem was Moltke the Elder refusing to listen to Bismarck on how to wage the war. Moltke wanted total war, to fuck over us, while Bismarck wanted a more limited war, because he was a genius who was completely right.
The power supply is the biggest issue. Genetically enhancing soldiers to make them stronger would be more practical.
<100 years war, AKA the first British War For Independence
>France: WHY WON'T THIS OTHER COUNTRY ACT LIKE OUR VASSAL?! WE WILL HAVE TO REFUSE TO UPHOLD OUR TREATIES WITH THEM AND THEN ACT LIKE IT'S THEIR FAULT!
>Also the way you guys treated that poor, mentally incompetent (she literally heard voices for fucks sake), farm girl you turned into a political figurehead at the end of that war was absolutely disgraceful.
<Cromwell. Need I say more?
>Charles I. Need I say more?
<Give DA JOOS their main source of financial power
>The Jews go for where the power is. Why do you think they're elbow deep in Americas arse at the moment?
<Britain/England is responsible for ALL OF EUROPES WARS
>This is what the frogs actually believe
<Muh Mao
>The Opium trade/wars were a political, economic, and humanitarian necessity. You would have done exactly the same thing if you had been a relevant country at the time.
>Secondly China has always been and always will be an unstable shithole, the communist revolution there was only a matter of time, just as the failure of their communist government is also only a matter of time.
<Muh Boers
>Boers rebel against the legitimate authority that protects them, rebels get fucked.
>This_is_how_things_should_work.jpg
<Muh Qwebeckers!
>You're right, we should have wiped them out. I think most modern Canadians would be very grateful for that. Even in the best of cases sometimes mercy misleads the hand of righteousness.
<Da werld wers!
>Firstly, you're welcome for us bailing you out and ensuring your independence (at ridiculous cost) twice in 40 years.
>Secondly, you're currently doing very well at ceding the independence that both our ancestors died for to Berlin at the moment.
>Thirdly, you're now getting annoyed that 'muh perfidious albion' actually abides by its treaty commitments?
>>627245
Well, in the case of Rhodesia we were definitely in the wrong. The Boers I've covered above. As for South Africa they had a perfectly peaceful and civilised exit from The Empire that ran from the South Africa Act of 1909 to The Statute of Westminster in 1931.
><100 years war, AKA the first British War For Independence
>British
>WE WILL HAVE TO REFUSE TO UPHOLD OUR TREATIES WITH THEM AND THEN ACT LIKE IT'S THEIR FAULT!
Like the surrender of Maine?
>>Boers rebel against the legitimate authority that protects them, rebels get fucked.
<Brits immigrate to Orange free state like niggers and outgrow Dutch settlers while taking their gold and diamonds
<dindu nuffin was self defence, half a million British soldiers were just self defending from dem 50 thousand Boers
>>You're right, we should have wiped them out. I think most modern Canadians would be very grateful for that. Even in the best of cases sometimes mercy misleads the hand of righteousness.
I don’t mind have frogs here, in fact I think we should learn French in school as a mandatory second language, but they need to be put in their place and Quebec is a whiney cunthole full of whiney pseudo-Jews who cry separation everytime they want another few million. If they acted like they actually cared about the nation (well Canada isn’t a nation but a country) and decided to do something besides suck money from everywhere then I’d be a-okay with them. But that’s not your fault it’s our government’s fault for being run by weak faggots for the past 50+ years.
>>Firstly, you're welcome for us bailing you out and ensuring your independence
G-d bless you for saving French democracy, otherwise they might have purged the commies and Jews. What a terrible scenario! This truly is the best timeline where the valiant Brits saved the world from gnatsees and created Israel. I only wish such sneaky deeds like the Suez crisis or terrible acts like colonization were never orchestrated by your righteous government. Thank you England and G-d save our Queen!
>>627251
>the treatment/handling of colonials entities of the brits is THE reason why Africa is so shit nowadays
Those countries were working just fine under British rule, and they were working just fine when they left the Empire. If things have gone to shit since then it can't be our fault, they agreed to remove our responsibility for them by setting up their own independent governments.
>Like the surrender of Maine?
You mean that peace treaty that Charles VII immediately undermined and invalidated with his support of Brittany?
>Orange free state
The dutch colonies ceased to exist as a political entity with the fall of the Netherlands. The land was (politically speaking) not owned by anyone. Why wouldn't we take it?
>just self defending
You mean after the Boers fired the first shot in the Transvaal Rebellion?
<pic related
>saving French democracy
They were kind of begging us to at the time. I was just remarking that it's a little gauche for a Frenchman to be angry at Britain for those times we saved them at their request.
>>627264
>fall of Rhodesia
America demanded we keep out, and the British government of the day was happy to comply - like I said that was a fucked up action that the British government took. We were entirely in the wrong there.
>blockade of South Africa
Presumably you mean the Embargo in the 1980's rather than the naval blockade in the early 1800's? To be honest I don't know a great deal about our involvement there (or the various factors and causes that lead to our involvement) from what I do know we had been opposing the sanctions since they were first proposed in the 1960's. I think you'd be better off looking at America for a cause there.
India will shit in their power armour
Guided evolution is the future. If we leave it up to nature we could go extinct, or revert to an inferior organism like the dinosaurs did when they evolved into birds. We must leave this planet and conquer the galaxy. To do so we must be stronger, smarter, and tougher.
>Guided evolution is the future.
Nah, artificial intelligence and visualization of consciousness are the future. The flesh is weak, the machine is strong! So basically Gigga Nigga Terminator Prime, shining as bright as the energy of multiple consumed stars and dying systems
>>627284
>not fitting microwave weaponry to an RWDS suit for the purpose of frying commies' brains with Mein Kampf audiobooks
>not inventing propellers capable of acting as loudspeakers at supersonic speeds, then committing mass murder by blasting Erika or the Fallschirmjägerlied at 300db all over enemy airspace
> artificial intelligence
Sorry,m8. Digital machines can never achieve sentience. They can roughly ape intelligence via problem solving algorithms, but that'sit. They can never really think. Machines are tools, they were meant to be wielded by us, not replace us. Not to mention the human body can outlast pretty much any machine. Can you think of any machine that can run for over 90 years without replacement parts? Plus the human brain still out classes modern supercomputers that use enough energy to run a small town. Why waste time with an inferior platform instead of building off an already far superior design? Fucking hell, even out muscle fibers are more efficient than most mechanical devices when it comes to converting chemical energy to work. Fuck starting over from scratch when we have a great platform to work with.
>Digital machines can never achieve sentience
We can't find sentience in humans either. Decision making on the other hand is a good trait and can be analyzed using digital methods.
>They can roughly ape intelligence via problem solving algorithms, but that'sit
For now, maybe, if we're speaking of problem solving using generated algorithms, while computers are superb at repeating previously mastered tasks up to the perfection biological brain can never achieveunless it functions like a biocomputor using the same principles :^).
>They can never really think
It's not like humans are any good at that. Few can only achieve at least somewhat reliable amount of control via long and tedious processes of training and learning yet still remain susceptible to basic logical fallacies.
>Machines are tools, they were meant to be wielded by us, not replace us
It's not like plenty of humans are anything but tools that are just cheaper to feed then to power a similar machine.
>Not to mention the human body can outlast pretty much any machine
human body is irreplaceable, can be damaged beyond repair, needs more maintenance than any machine and is vulnerable to the widest amount of threats evolution has to offer, including viruses, bacteria, poisoning and even sun blasts, ffs.
>Can you think of any machine that can run for over 90 years without replacement parts
Yeah, they are pretty crude but they do thattake guns for example, while our modern technology doesn't need the required durability threshold and so isn't that developed in that field. Still, it's not like humans do not need time to sleep, eat, breathe, heat, drink, move and many more things. That's not "without management", even if you do not use repair parts(they're actually superior in that regard because they are not immediately used and can last longer depending on intensity of use in a lot greater dependence than just resources that only vary so much).
>Plus the human brain still out classes modern supercomputers that use enough energy to run a small town
Outclasses in what regard? The most basic calculator that's 150yo can perform greater calculations than any human ever lived could even come close by.
>Fucking hell, even out muscle fibers are more efficient than most mechanical devices when it comes to converting chemical energy to work
Unified energy source simplifies logistics and greater scalability and modability of the platform allows a lot more flexible platform. This is especially true if you judge humans by current technology like you do the tech.
> Fuck starting over from scratch when we have a great platform to work with.
The only problem is the platform is a steaming pile of shit. It's so huge pile of unrecognizable random code made out of features that worked during random generation and selection and other features that are build on these ones. It's so fucking huge mess that it's easier not only just create artificial consciousness but create a new lifeform from scratch rather than trying to fix this unholy abomination.
>We can't find sentience in humans either.
Yes we can. Sapience can easily be ascertained. Machines don't have it.
>Outclasses in what regard?
Brains are 10000 times more energy efficient than computers and store more data. Even DNA is far better than any digital memory storage.
>The only problem is the platform is a steaming pile of shit. It's so huge pile of unrecognizable random code made out of features that worked during random generation and selection and other features that are build on these ones. It's so fucking huge mess that it's easier not only just create artificial consciousness but create a new lifeform from scratch rather than trying to fix this unholy abomination.
You've outed yourself as another generic programmer autist who knows nothing of the human brain. The human brain doesn't use any form of code since it is an anaolog computer,and analog computer are superior in many aspects to digital computers. Digital computers are good for doing specific tasks, but aren't capable of logic, or cognition. They can crunch numbers really well,but then again hammers pound nails better than fists and nobody wants to replace their hands with hammers. And what would be the point of letting robots supplant us? That's voluntary extinction,the highest form of cuckery.
https://blog.degruyter.com/algorithms-suck-analog-computers-future/
>Yes we can
How?
>Brains are 10000 times more energy efficient than computers and store more data
In the current form(remember, only 20 years ago we've thought of a 100gb as big while evolution has been only good at spontaneously creating life, not perfecting it). Machines are still 10000 times more efficient at reliability and precision of the storage of information.
>The human brain doesn't use any form of code since it is an anaolog computer
You've outed yourself as unintelligent fucktard that knows nothing about computing operations.
>analog computer are superior in many aspects to digital computers
Indeed, that's why quantum computers exist. Also, we can go even beyond that and get decentralized nano machine meshnets based on relativistic pattern recognition and visualization, aka our brain but not just with proteins. Or build one system on top of each other and use them for different functions that seamlessly integrate in each other.
>but aren't capable of logic
More like we aren't capable of logic, we can only simulate it by learning similar patterns and recreating them. We count by utilizing our previous memories of numbers during events we previously experienced, unlike digital computers that do it in reverse, using logical basis to describe events from the ground instead of keeping ever fading away mix of images of these events. Ever heard of mathematical logic? Of course not.
>or cognition
You'd have to define cognition first and find it in humans. Define scientifically, i remind you.
>That's voluntary extinction,the highest form of cuckery.
The highest form of cuckery is to degrade your own concept of self to the ugly, weak and pitiful shell your existence has been tied to.
>How
I think, therefor I am.
>Also, we can go even beyond that and get decentralized nano machine meshnets based on relativistic pattern recognition and visualization
Dude, you just threw a bunch of scifi buzzwords together to try and sound smart because even you know deep down that this thinking machine bullshit is pure fantasy and you have nothing tangible to offer.
>Mathematical logic
Literally just applying logic to math.
>Define cognition
the mental action or process of acquiring knowledge and understanding through thought, experience, and the senses. Machines do not have senses.
>The highest form of cuckery is to degrade your own concept of self to the ugly, weak and pitiful shell your existence has been tied to.
You apparently missed the part about guided evolution and improving the species rather than replacing it with something incomprehensibly inferior. Your misanthropy leads me to believe that you're a retarded kike. I understand that this an image board so most people are going to be more into computers than biology, but this is retarded.
>I think, therefor I am.
Doesn't work that way, kiddo. You clearly don't think.
>Dude, you just threw a bunch of scifi buzzwords together to try and sound smart
i could explain that if someone else asked but i won't for an illiterate retard like you. Just know that you're too stupid to get this because you're too busy jerking off to human master race. All without knowing that you'd have brain cancer if your body ever actually had a brain.
>because even you know deep down that this thinking machine bullshit is pure fantasy
Keep projecting
>Literally just applying logic to math
More like math is pure logic. If you ever finished school you'd know about that.
>the mental action or process of acquiring knowledge and understanding through thought, experience, and the senses
Nuh uh, you've got to give me something other than your imaginary experiences. A machine can analyze, process and acquire information , it actually does that now under the palm of your hands without you even noticing it.
>Machines do not have senses
They do.
>You apparently missed the part about guided evolution and improving the species
You'll always end up with something inferior because this inferiority is the only trait that differentiates it. You are clinging to using steam in the era of nuclear reactors because this if the only thing your pitiful ego can relate to.
>with something incomprehensibly inferior
What really is incomprehensibly inferior is your joke of a mind that is unable to grasp anything beyond this existential autofellatio of a philosophy.
>be more into computers than biology
That's not even about computers or biology. There's nothing wrong with biological computersaside from being inferior to nanotechnologies, it's you reject anything that interferes with the identity you tie to an archaic piece of history with only thing that makes it special is its own inferior engineering solutions and inefficiency.
I'm actually for that, aside from the thing that makes organics special being that they are carbon based.
>Is power armor a vidya joke or does it actually have potential?
Yes. Geometry says it's fucknig retarded. You can't put a ball joint inside of another ball joint.
>he doesn’t realize all of American “English” is wrong
They dropped the ‘u’ in words like ‘colour’ and ‘armour’ because it cost less in newspapers to spell ‘color’. So don’t be surprised if in 50 years American English degrades to text spelling.
>American.
>Gets his historical information from Hollywood movies.
>Specifically Mel Gibson shitfests.
>Thinks his opinion means anything.
I know that most Americans are actually decent people, but every now and then I meet one that makes me wonder if things would have been better if we'd never colonised you.
>>627388
>is a clear globalist kike
>calls everyone kikes
Fuck off Germany.
>Nigger, if you use thermobaric warhead, I don't see normal infantry is gonna fair better.
So it doesn't do any better than cotton shirt, but lets spend $750,000 per soldier anyway?
>At that point you win by forcing the enemy to once up their own weapon.
No yo don't, because it's cheaper for the enemy to switch to battle rifles than it is for you to field anime characters.
They really don't, Does your calculator think when it does math?
>Doesn't work that way, kiddo. You clearly don't think.
Yes it does, read Descartes. He invented much of the math you claim to use.
>Machines have senses
Give me an example
>i could explain that if someone else asked
No you cant, because we don't have nanomachine computer networks.
>Math is pure logic
No, math is a subset of logic. If you ever cracked open a book you'd know this
>Nuh uh, you've got to give me something other than your imaginary experiences.
Are you actually autistic? Not making fun of you, it's a legit question.
> A machine can analyze, process and acquire information
Give me an example of a sapient machine.
>There's nothing wrong with biological computersaside from being inferior to nanotechnologies
Nice job outing yourself as a retard, again. Our brains already use nano machines in the form of chemical signals. And they can do more with 10 wattz of energy than a computer that uses enough energy to power a town.
> it's you reject anything that interferes with the identity you tie to an archaic piece of history with only thing that makes it special is its own inferior engineering solutions and inefficiency.
You're one to talk about efficiency. Why not build off the already superior platform we have instead of starting from starch using stick and stones?
>You are clinging to using steam in the era of nuclear reactors because this if the only thing your pitiful ego can relate to.
Other way around. Our brains are already superior to digital computers. I'm working on a more efficient thermonuclear reactor, your just dicking around with a hamster wheel. You're an absolute low functioning autistic retard. You refer to humans as tools with no consciousness yet you think contemporary computers posses sentience. I'm sorry, but you're not going to be able to transfer your conscious into a robot body and slaughter the chad who ran a train on your oneitis in high school.
>I'm working on a more efficient thermonuclear reactor, your just dicking around with a hamster wheel.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I'll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I've been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I'm the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You're fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that's just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little "clever" comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn't, you didn't, and now you're paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You're fucking dead, kiddo.
>Does your calculator think when it does math?
Yes
>Yes it does
No it, doesn't. You have absolutely no proof that you think and many here highly doubt that question.
>read Descartes
>read a book
>Give me an example
CIA listening to you via your phone might help with that.
>No you cant, because we don't have nanomachine computer networks.
<What is scientific progress
>No, math is a subset of logic
And how does that contradict my statement? Math is the purest form of logic applied to the sphere of quantities. There are some other applications that are similarly pure from deviations but they are few and certainly distant from humans.
>Are you actually autistic?
I could ask the same to you. You still didn't provide any proof to the existence of cognition in a human brain, Mr. pile of scripts.
>Give me an example of a sapient machine.
Define sapience.
>Our brains already use nano machines in the form of chemical signals
And there's nothing wrong with that, i never said so. I just said that there's no point in limiting ourselves to carbon based organic nanomachines when we can have all others as well.
>And they can do more
But can they? Can a human brain calculate the angle at which to enter stratosphere? Can a human brain maintain petabytes of historical data about many years past? Can a human brain make precise alterations in a material?
>with 10 wattz of energy than a computer that uses enough energy to power a town
Most things that i described require no more than a simple raspberry pi that consumes many times less, as well as requiring only one unified source of energy - electricity, while humans require so much food, water, air and heat that their maintenance and energy costs go through the roof. That's without mentioning the fact that computers can work without delays and stops for more than just a week with permanent physical damage afterwards.
>Why not build off the already superior platform
Because it's not superior, you degenerate nigger. You've already been pointed out many inferiorities of the system. It's complexity and array of less than optimal engineering decisions make human body almost worthless platform for further progress, given that we can design the same platform using the same principles and even the same materials(however inefficient it may be) and end up with vastly superior results.
>instead of starting from starch using stick and stones
>Modern computing is sticks and stones
>Our brains are already superior to digital computers
>Already
You know that our brains have millions of years in development while(somewhat) modern computers are here for less than a century? if anything the opposite statement would be true - computers are already superior to human brains, though unlike lying bitch like you i'll point out in what regard they are superior - preservation and recreation of precise information, logical analysis and interconnection.
>I'm working on a more efficient thermonuclear reactor
Right now you're working on a digital computer that enables you to spew this senseless bullshit.
>You refer to humans as tools with no consciousness yet you think contemporary computers posses sentience
Not really. I refer to humans as lacking sentience because the statement about it is unfalsifiable and is no different than a set of scripts writing the same thing in a computer, aside from us knowing how computer functions due to simpler and clearer design. All your actions are literally a speculation on our lack of knowledge.
>I'm sorry, but you're not going to be able to transfer your conscious into a robot body and slaughter the chad who ran a train on your oneitis in high school.
Keep projecting, it'll surely strengthen your lack of argumentation. You've provided nothing but a pile of false premises with as much support for them as an average leftist would.
It'll be starship troopers, shock troopers in massive armored artificial muscle suits loaded down with man portable nukes and HE.
>British
>posts 6 year old meme
>especially in a decade old image macro format
I know that most Brits are actually decent people, but every now and then I meet one that makes me wonder if things would have been better Hitler wasn’t an Angloboo.
<What is scientific progress
That doesn't mean it will ever be possible.
>Define sapience
Self awareness, wisdom, the ability of an entity to exercise judgement. Now show me a machine that can do so instead of stalling by telling me to define things that everyone already knows .
>Math is the purest form of logic applied to the sphere of quantities
Is Mechanical engineering the purest form of engineering? Is surgery the purest form of medicine?
>I just said that there's no point in limiting ourselves to carbon based organic nanomachines when we can have all others as well.
Which is retarded because carbon is the only chemical with the properties needed to build nano machines.. Learn chemistry before you larp as someone who knows shit.
>You know that our brains have millions of years in development
Through the chaotic forces of nature rather than under the guidance of intelligent design.
>Because it's not superior, you degenerate nigger.
It is though. Robots can only do specific tasks, and cannot think. They can only do as instructed. Plus the human body is extremely good for killing shit. Modern humans killed and ate rival hominids during the early paleolithic and wiped out most mega fauna.
> as well as requiring only one unified source of energy - electricity, while humans require so much food, water, air and heat that their maintenance and energy costs go through the roof.
A robot cannot sustain itself without a vast modern infrastructure. Pretty hard to get electricity and rare earth metals in nature. Humans can eat nearly anything organic and survive. Which one would fare better if dropped on an alien planet with no outside support?
>Inb4 muh self replicating nanobots will break down raw material in an instant to maintain the robots
Impossible due to thermodynamics. If that was possible then bacteria would be able to decompose fallen trees within moments. Bacteria are basically self replicating nanites.
>Right now you're working on a digital computer that enables you to spew this senseless bullshit.
And? I already said machines are tools, not the end all, be all.
>But can they? Can a human brain calculate the angle at which to enter stratosphere? Can a human brain maintain petabytes of historical data about many years past? Can a human brain make precise alterations in a material?
Did you forget that mathematicians and historians exist?
> You've provided nothing but a pile of false premises with as much support for them as an average leftist would.
Now that's projection. Everything I've propositionedis possible. You're counterarguments are mostly scifi fantasy stuff that may very likely be impossible like sentient AI, nanobot computer networks, Whole brain emulation. Whereas genetic modification, and even biological immortality is entirely possible. We already have genetically modified organisms, and there are a few biologically immortal animals out there. On the other hand some experts are saying that sentient machines are mathematically impossible. At least digital machines.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25560-sentient-robots-not-possible-if-you-do-the-maths/
>That doesn't mean it will ever be possible
We already know nanomachines are possible, i don't see why not use them that way.
>Now show me a machine that can do so
Tay could do all those things.
>Which is retarded because carbon is the only chemical with the properties needed to build nano machines
Carbon isn't everything. Electrical computers, for example, can't achieve computing speeds that optical one can.
>Through the chaotic forces of nature rather than under the guidance of intelligent design.
>guidance of intelligent design
Why not cut out the middleman and apply intelligent design to the thing directly?
>Robots can only do specific tasks, and cannot think
Humans can only do specific tasks and thinking is some magic that you cannot provably describe.
>They can only do as instructed
Not if the instruction can alter itself.
>Plus the human body is extremely good for killing shit
Not really, you lying jew. It's good at using tools but you're nothing without them.
>A robot cannot sustain itself without a vast modern infrastructure
A modern robot. They aren't built for that. You could build a machine that fuels itself by burning everything around that.
>Which one would fare better if dropped on an alien planet with no outside support
You'd still die a painful death few days later, faggot.
>Bacteria are basically self replicating nanites
So what's the problem with making our own bacteria?
>I already said machines are tools, not the end all, be all.
And i already said that humans are tools, not the end of all.
>Did you forget that mathematicians and historians exist?
Did you forget that pattern recognition algorithms exist?
>Everything I've propositionedis possible
And i didn't argue with that, you stupid fuck. It's your propositions about impossible that are the problem.
>You're counterarguments are mostly scifi fantasy stuff that may very likely be impossible
And your counterarguments are mostly claims that humans are the perfect platform to create the ultimate lifeform and no thing should go beyond. All only to support some petty eugenics program.
>Whereas genetic modification
>Genetic modification is the only way to achieve greater form
>biological immortality
Is still limited by constraints of the physical body that can be destroyed.
>some experts
And some neuroscientists think that "cognition" or "free will" is nothing but a mental illusion.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psych-unseen/201411/the-neuroscience-free-will-and-the-illusion-you
>At least digital machines.
And where did i say about limiting oneself to digital machines?
>Tay could do all those things
Nope. She was a good meme, but still a meme. She was basically a parrot repeating things with no thought.
>Carbon isn't everything. Electrical computers, for example, can't achieve computing speeds that optical one can.
This has nothing to do with electrical, or optical computing, just that carbon is the key to nanobots. You're better off using viruses since they're basically natural nanobots.
>You could build a machine that fuels itself by burning everything around that
ATP synthesis is more efficient than combustion. Hence why human muscles are more efficient than car engines. Plus how would a robot burn say… solid wood for electricity? Plus what if there's nothing to burn?
Not really, you lying jew. It's good at using tools but you're nothing without them.
Our hands and nervous system evolved around tool use. Being able to use a wide variety of tools and weapons is are better than having claws, or any built in weapons.It's the reason we usurped the food chain.
>You'd still die a painful death few days later, faggot.
Not with genetically engineered bacteriophages that attack any foreign bacteria
and enhanced immune system, faggot.
>And your counterarguments are mostly claims that humans are the perfect platform to create the ultimate lifeform and no thing should go beyond
Pretty much. I can't think of any rally drastic changes to the human form I'd add.Extra limbs and shit would hinder us more than help. We've dominated this planet with 2 arms, 2 legs, 10 fingers, 10 toes, and 46 chromosomes. Plus I don't want the humanity to separate into different species that'd inevitably go to war due to Gause's law.
>Why not cut out the middleman and apply intelligent design to the thing directly
Didn't I already imply genetic modification?
>Humans can only do specific tasks and thinking is some magic that you cannot provably describe.
Humans can do a plethora of tasks, and I literally defined cognition. Plus you have yet to explain how a machine thinks. How i an abacus self aware?
>Not if the instruction can alter itself.
Can they though?
>So what's the problem with making our own bacteria?
I never said there was, just that they'd be organic, as opposed to metallic because the latter would be physically impossible.
>And i already said that humans are tools, not the end of all.
Humans aren't tools. They weren't created by an intelligent force, and they weren't made for a narrow array of applications.
>Did you forget that pattern recognition algorithms exist?
They don't think.
>Is still limited by constraints of the physical body that can be destroyed.
And robots can't be destroyed?
>Muh readiness potential
From the article
>While it remains possible to adopt any of these stances without being delusional, any position should account for the experiments of Libet and Fried. Of course, as with most scientific data, there is plenty of room to dispute their interpretation. You could say that these studies are simply flawed, citing various methodological problems such as lack of precision in measuring the time of one’s conscious decision – maybe it occurs earlier than the experiments suggest. Or maybe, despite Fried’s findings, the readiness potential isn’t all it’s cracked up to be – after all, it only predicts movement with about 70-80% accuracy
Plus readiness potential is just precognition.
>Genetic modification is the only way to achieve greater form
Yes. It's impossible to transfer your mind into a machine. So you can't have a robot body. Well maybe you could do the whole brain in a jar, but putting your brain in something other than a human body for a long period of time will cause it to decay, so that's out of the question. So your only alternative is to build non human robots, voluntarily go extinct, and surrender the cosmos to non humans. How is that ascension?
Are "powered" suits useful outside of frontline combat?
Assuming cold fusion will at some point get un-meme'd an NBC Hazmat suit that could pick up large boulders might have some use in a Fukushima type situation, preferably in combination with robot assistants.
>She was basically a parrot repeating things with no thought.
And where did you find thought in humans again, faggot?
>You're better off using viruses since they're basically natural nanobots
Not using, creating and building
>ATP synthesis is more efficient than combustion
So what? It's not like we're planning to build such thing. It's proof of concept, not absolute perfection you keep talking about.
>Plus how would a robot burn say… solid wood for electricity?
In the oven, you fucking kike.
>Plus what if there's nothing to burn?
What is there's nothing to eat?
>Being able to use a wide variety of tools and weapons is are better than having claws, or any built in weapons
that's the point. Being a machine allows compatibility, both physical and informational far beyond any human body could.
>Not with genetically engineered bacteriophages that attack any foreign bacteria
So you're comparing some science fiction to modern robots? What a lying jew.
>I can't think of any rally drastic changes to the human form I'd add.Extra limbs and shit would hinder us more than help
>Literally judging only by the basic appearance
Start with improving already existing tools, they are shit, instead of pretending to grow limbs.
>I don't want the humanity to separate
Humanity is not something monollithic, you globalist kike.
> inevitably go to war due to Gause's law.
>Completely missing the point of the law and interpreting it in the stupidest way.
you apply the law about species out competing each other within an ecosystem and then conclude that there's inevitable war between species. It's not star trek, you fantasizing illiterate faggot.
>Didn't I already imply genetic modification?
CREATE, you stupid nigger, not alter or modify.
>I literally defined cognition
In non-scientific terms. That definition is unfalsifiable and so cannot be used for scientific discussion.
>Plus you have yet to explain how a machine thinks
By processing information. That is thinking.
>How i an abacus self aware?
Strawman, abacus doesn't precess information, it only helps pathetic human brain hold more numbers without forgetting them.
>Can they though?
Update your OS and see.
>because the latter would be physically impossible
Prove it. Some metals are simply superior for things like manipulators, even if they aren't used in processing units.
>They weren't created by an intelligent force
>That's how you define a tool.
>they weren't made for a narrow array of applications
Yes, they were made for a wide array of applications. It doesn't make them not tools.
>They don't think
Only because you play with the term "thinking" by defining it as a self-evident principle that can be subjectively observed. That's not the case. you need to observe it objectively, as we do today, finding mechanisms and predicting human decisions before it recognizes them itself.
>And robots can't be destroyed?
Virtual cognition can be transferred, unlike biological that is tied to the body.
>From the article
>A scientific theory is a theory
>Plus readiness potential is just precognition
Prove it, faggot. That theory is still viable even if not proven.
>Yes. It's impossible to transfer your mind into a machine
We don't really know what constitutes "mind" so you've not got stuff to transfer, for starters.
>for a long period of time will cause it to decay,
>implying human body doesn't decay over time
>So your only alternative is to build non human robots, voluntarily go extinct, and surrender the cosmos to non humans
you know that genetic modification can only be bone with unborn species, right? You're not going to get an injection and become giga nigga, only further generations might but you're going to die while watching them live forever. So YOU can't have a new body.
>build non human robots
Fuck you, i hate you more than any robot despite being human, you rotten piece of shit.
>surrender the cosmos to non humans
i don't care about "humans" owning cosmos or whatever. It's not a game with a set goal not do i need to adhere to some globalist standards or identity.
You are so fucking jewish with all that globalist humanism it's beyond disgusting. Go help humanity expand by letting a nigger fuck your wife. He's "human" after all.
Descartes was talking about self awareness, not making calculations. Also self awareness was a good measuring stick for the time period and a massive improvement over thousands of years of knowledge that came before, but we have much better criteria now.
You are all basically retarded, focus on finishing high school.
Also learn how to write and respond to each other in full sentences and paragraphs. Jesus fucking Christ that was hard to follow.
Wow, you got me friend, haha. Epic win indeed, have an upvote. Where do you find these hilarious images? I’d like to post them onto my Facebook and will credit them to you. Could I request some lolcats or i haz cheeseburger formats please?
>Self awareness, wisdom, the ability of an entity to exercise judgement. Now show me a machine that can do so
The hell did you include me in that link mashup?
This is more or less true, bird brain sizes are larger per body weight than dinosaurs. A t-rex had the intelligence of a shark, it just knew what prey looked like, it knew to run toward it, and it knew to open its mouth and chew on it.
Birds evolved from raptors, which were literally the smartest class of dinosaurs.
>a person in power armor can be killed with a big enough gun
yeah, no shit.
an AT rifle would fuck up a normal person, too. the advantage the power armor gives is you can carry a shitload more weight for the same mobility, meaning a soldier is less fatigued when he gets to the fight, and can get there with a much bigger gun and/or with a much larger ammunition load.
how power armor is typically depicted is as a hardsuit that can both support its own weight but also move itself, taking all the physical strain off of the wearer. it's not a difficuilt thing to design and implement, the trick is keeping it powered, right now the only options are heavy ass lithium polymer batteries and/or gas generators. neither are exactly convenient in the field.
What advantages would power armor have over tankettes? Somebody upthread mentioned indoors mobility, but to have enough armor to be useful against even .50 BMG, let alone basic anti-armor rockets like the RPG-7, would likely render the suit too heavy to use on staircases or buildings with subfloors.
Could current plutonium battery technologies be used in power armor, or are the shielding requirements just too great?
Deviating too far from the human form would be blasphemous.
It would be the bridge between infantry and artillery! Brilliant!
If the average soldier was in better shape (i.e. special-forces-tier fitness level), powered suits would be totally unnecessary. Other alternatives would be performance-enhancing drugs, sportswear (braces to help avoid injury, etc.), more comfortable fucking footwear… If we train and treat our soldiers like professional athletes, each one would be vastly more effective, more capable of carrying armor that protects the entire body, etc.
I've also seen the idea of armored bicycles brought up before. Armored electric bicycles, motorcycles, or other powered personal vehicles would be cheaper than all the R&D required to build mechanized body suits. Shit, what about an armored, all-terrain Segway?
> If we train and treat our soldiers like professional athletes, each one would be vastly more effective, more capable of carrying armor that protects the entire body.
With the the US military in mind, don't care about making grunt super solders that will need more than a decade to perfect but are happy with a armored truck that will cost them less in the long run.
The military wouldn't be necessarily responsible for taking an average dude and turning him into a super soldier. They need to start with a better-than-average dude and invest in him so that he WANTS to improve. They ought to be more selective, with recruiters targeting top college athletes and paying them well. The PFT should be difficult as opposed to the joke it is now. Performance-enhancing drugs should be available (in safe quantities) to those who want them. Maybe have the Army sponsor shooting competitions (not just average marksmanship competitions, but more along the lines of a 3-gun or something else that requires tactical ability AND marksmanship.)
This wouldn't work when operating in conditions their body isn't accustomed to; you can't have an athlete perform well at high altitudes when their brain and muscles aren't used to low oxygen levels, areas with high or low moisture content in the air if their lungs aren't ready for it or a wide range of temperatures and environmental conditions that would devastate even the most well trained and healthy soldier if they come from and trained in a vastly different climate.
I saw the biggest problem with power armor explained decades back on an early website about military technology about why it isn't suitable, it's the weight per mass not power requirements. When there's several hundreds pounds pushing down on the ground in a very small footprint that makes it impossible to use in any slightly difficult terrain. In urban environments you'll barely be able to squeeze through doorways or go up/down stairs.
Also one of the biggest issues for designing bipedal robots is the ankle joint and I'm sure it'll be the same for power armor, what good is it if a cheap mine or grenade booby trap could make it immobile? The Achilles' heel myth has lived on for millennia because it's true in spirit.
Just fucking privatize military or at least part of it and you'll see vast improvements. The only reason not to do that is keeping monopoly, pushing for gun control and hiding the real size of the inefficient bloat the military has become.
>b-but someone will buy them and conquer you!
If you manage to offer great platform for mercenaries to base off they won't be able to hire enough to even have advantage in numbers, as well as finding mercs that are willing to fight against the ones who offer them best conditions to develop and organize and vice versa - you'll find a lot more support for a lot smaller price.
>This wouldn't work when operating in conditions their body isn't accustomed to
This is obviously true, but you can't tell me an athlete wouldn't be able to deal with it better than the average dude.
>several hundreds pounds pushing down on the ground in a very small footprint that makes it impossible to use in any slightly difficult terrain
Totally agreed. On a similar note, it's important to remember that the very shape of a human places limits on its strength and maneuverability, so any powered human-shaped suit would suffer from the same limitations. Would a powered suit really be able to make super-strong fingers, for example? Probably not. Yeah, someone could make a purpose-built robotic hand with very strong fingers, but it would be deficient in other ways; it would add a disproportional amount of weight or complexity to the arm, or it would have a lower range of motion, etc.
>ankles
Agreed. Sure, they could add all sorts of plating AROUND the ankle to protect it, at the expense of reduced range of motion or excessive weight or high energy consumption (with the shape and structure of the human body, it requires 4 times the energy to move a pound at the feet as it does a pound on the back.)
Let me put it this way…
The small, efficiently armored two person vehicle, with a fairly good power plant and the kind of armor, ordnance and weaponry >>626750 is looking for you see to the left?…. can handle ball 5.56x45 and 7.62x39. Most full sized rifle ammo goes clean through.
The larger, more efficiently armored squad vehicle, with a very good power plant and much better armor, ordnance and weaponry >>626750 is looking for you see to the left?…. can handle 7.62 NATO at over 100m… at under that range it goes clean through.
Now the combat suit isn't going to be efficiently armored, so it's not going to be as strong unless it focuses on like the chest and head, which is what most body armor does.
Best case scenario for the shitty Star Airborne video game with his Bulleter gun is that the enemy force simply adopts FN FAL, and uses some AP rounds. Can go clean through at all engagement ranges.
I'll say it again: tankettes
We need badass power supplies. Either generators or capacitors. Pick one. Crysis could work, if it absorbed energy for literally any electrical source without giving a damn.
Nah, collapsible compact hand trucks with offroad wheels would do wonders. As would, um, 6x6 wheeled mules. And not doing patrols like its fucking Vietnam, what the fuck.
Don't forget about tendons, I tore my ACL. It sucks.
We're much more likely to get this from genetic engineering than nanomachines son. Although I'm not sure if the general public are ready to accept military projects that look like they were designed by Dr Moreau, the Marquis de Sade, and Fabius Bile after they all came off their medication.
Nah. Fully growing a modified human would be too expensive and time consuming for a military to bother. Remember that the military considers anyone anyone with an IQ less than 84 unfit to do any sort of job. IQ is correlated positively with education, meaning that you'll need a school for the little mega niggas so that they can become effective, fully grown giga niggas. Never mind the associated costs of feeding someone way heavier than a regular human being for several years.
In the end you get a soldier that, while stronger and more resilient than the average human, is way more costly than your typical rifleman or even SEAL.
I say we just make bio-mechanical exoskeletons. Something like a Gecko crossed with the unused Combine Elite concept.
>IQ is correlated positively with education
Because smarter people can make it higher in our education system, not because education gives you IQ. You're born with a preset IQ amount and it can only get degraded, never upgraded.
You do need education to get to that level, otherwise you end up with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie_(feral_child) The problem is with two assumptions. The first one is that there isn't an inherent "upper limit" of intelligence in every person. The second one is that all people are unable to learn on their own, and so they are complete lost without highly developed formal education. After all, smart people are smart even if they are left to their own devices.
>You're born with a preset IQ amount and it can only get degraded, never upgraded
I don't think that is true. I think it's just way easier to lower your IQ rather than raise it.
At an early age, your neurons are making connections between themselves in order to build a functioning neural network. If this isn't encouraged, you'll end up with a brain with a less capable processing power and thus, a less intelligent individual.
I'm not saying that everyone is born equally intelligent, mind you. Since intelligence is based on neural interconnectedness, genes that affect this on a molecular level will probably make differing tiers of intelligence.
I could be wrong though.
So? Go up to 12.7mm, it's not like infantry can't carry it.
>since then
Since when? PASGT was a piece of shit and interceptor even more so, it can't handle half of what it claims.
And we basically need some kind of powered exoskeleton just to walk wearing current 40% coverage armor and carrying the standard 80lb of equipment.
A full coverage armor like a EOD would weigh about 100lbs in armor itself. Add another 20lb for exoskeleton, 30lb for two stroke or whatever magic you move it with, and 20lb of fuel, that's total 170lb of just the suit itself. Addition to 80lb equipment and a fucking 150lb cannon some of you fuckers think it should carry.
We're up on 400lb, add a 225lb trooper, and we're over 600lb.
This is all supposed to be standing bipedally, roughly human sized feet, 125psi pressure, more than an abrams tank. Good luck with your mobility.
Power armor is a joke. You're supposed to put more and more weight on a soldier until his back breaks. Then you throw him in a dumpster somewhere and leave him with a cheap phone filled with his wife or girlfriend getting railed by army niggers. Because diversity yay. :^)
What can a man in power armor do better than a robot that can be sacrificed?
>You're born with a preset IQ amount
Not really. You are indeed born with some predisposition of intellect but most of of the shaping of human brain happens during childhood and doing work involving thinking, creativity, etc allows greater potential in the future. You also easier learn things in the childhood due to this - all the connections, skills and dispositions are not seated in your brain as deeply, while older people do have a harder time changing themselves than younger ones. Also, while some "average" IQ in one person can be considered fixed, it does change depending on the person's condition, like if one is really tired, thirsty, sleep-deprived or ill his capability to solve creative problems, understand and learn things and recognize images and shapes, while another person that is given some emotion-dampening, concentration enhancing or even energy-giving stimulant will show greater results. I remember going through internet IQ test at the age of 14 and getting 120 while 4 years later when i was visiting a psychologist and passing a completel survey(with combining pictures, figurines and stuff) i got max result they had - 140. It could be the first test being fake or something but i remember that i mostly started actively learning stuff and getting into philosophy myself from the age of 16 or so. It also feels rather differently to do any kind of mental activity, even going shopping. Sometimes when i haven't slept for 20+ hrs and after walking in brightly lighted halls i couldn't recognize the numbers on the price tags and notice separate products on the shelves despite having good enough sight for that. It might be my issue but i guess it'll work as an example.
As >>629827 pointed out, children that do not learn speech until 3 years will forever remain on the level of a wild animal, sometimes even a specific animal with its habits and behavior.
Like I said, you're born with a certain IQ, and all you can do from that point on is reduce it. In fact pubescence and puberty are two stages of MASS dying of brain cells, they die constructively and actually prepare you for life.
Genie probably was born with a bigger IQ than us but starvation and disease she encountered in the fucking wilderness made the body cannibalize parts of the brain and parts of it died off, and she ended up like that.
It's like pointing to a person who ate lead chips his whole life and saying "wow if he just had education, he'd have been fine!".
>I don't think
That's an opinion buddy. What I said isn't my opinion, hell I don't WANT it to be true, it just is.
>At an early age, your neurons are making connections between themselves in order to build a functioning neural network. If this isn't encouraged, you'll end up with a brain with a less capable processing power and thus, a less intelligent individual.
The opposite is the case, both you and >>629847 you fail to understand the connections.
You're basically born with all of your neurons already connected, and your IQ is just the number of connections you're born with. Imagine it like being born with a block of marble or wood, and the size of it being your IQ.
The entire process of learning is actually the CONSTRUCTIVE elimination of certain useless connections. The first burst of this dying off of connections happens in prepubescence, when the general rough shape of you is set by the removal of extraneous junk. The second burst of neuron connections dying happens in puberty, when your final personality is set in stone. As you age, more cells will die, and some will die more than others (leading to small changes in personhood), but mostly it's a gradual random wearing away until you die.
Whereas the process of getting dumber is DESTRUCTIVE elimination of connections at random, which happens when you're starving, frying your brain with alcohol, or have heavy metal poisoning. It's a little like the difference between chiseling a figure out of a marble block, and smashing the marble block with a hammer.
Basically you have to stop thinking of IQ as the quality of "being smart". IQ is the rate at which you learn, not how much you've learned or what you know.
You seem to misunderstand what IQ is, mr. leaf. It's not a measure of acquired knowledge, which is true because one can know or not know certain fact regardless of IQ, but you're also wrong in that IQ is "amount of neuron connections" or something, as IQ represents first and foremost not some physical characteristic(that'd be measured on the body of the subject, like the density of neurons) but a personal trait named "intelligence" which we measure by doing these strange tests with shapes, pictures and objects.
Now we come to what IQ or, precisely, intelligence that it measures is. Intelligence is our ability to think, learn, make correct decisions and solve problems, as well as recognize patterns and think logically. There are many theories on what impacts or determines it but it is known for sure that intelligence changes over time both negatively and positively, precisely the mean IQ scores of tests at ages 17 and 18 were correlated at r=0.86 with the mean scores of tests at ages five, six, and seven and at r=0.96 with the mean scores of tests at ages 11, 12, and 13. Intelligence also decreases over time in the process of aging later.
On the point of education what you're saying is correct but assigning it to our argument is either a misunderstanding or a strawman. Most impact on intelligence(aside from actual genes) happens before any education takes place - during earlier ages of learning speech, socializing and other interactions with parents and largely suffering from lack thereof(there's also a thing about mother's physical and psychological state impacting child before birth) while public education generally teaches some specific skills that are useful for the children's owners and their further assimilation into the society they've built, though getting used to continuously wasting one's time on unproductive shit is the main one of them today in most places.
>Genie probably was born with a bigger IQ than us but starvation and disease she encountered in the fucking wilderness made the body cannibalize parts of the brain and parts of it died off, and she ended up like that.
More like all activities her brain did were centered around survival as an animal and so shaped her thinking, forming basic structures to rely upon afterwards that way. Mind you, that explanation fits into your theory of "constructive removal of connections", though i think that it's more about re purposing them and neurons determining what connections to use out of all available.
Your comparison is cool and all but doesn't add any meaning to your argument and so you can pick that piece of wood, carve a dildo from it and stick it up your ass.
>More like all activities her brain did were centered around survival as an animal and so shaped her thinking
No, she literally starved as a child and experienced the kind of diseases and parasites that civilized people haven't seen for centuries. There is no magic quit engaging in magical thinking.
I'm not saying that her activities didn't damage the brain. I'm saying that it wasn't the major factor as has been proven by people getting in the same situation, surviving and being able to properly function. It's not about magic, you stupid fuck.
Nice strawman, inbred retard.
Depends on what you mean, but it's reasonable to expect exo-suits with upgraded armor packages since they can handle the extra weight. Fallout tier stuff? That's probably the closest to legitimate power armor of the three images you provided.
40K? Maybe in 39 thousand years. Again, 40K has some fundamental issues with the way power armor works since, basically it's magic. 40K power armor exists to look cool and nothing else.
Halo? Kek, no. Halo is gay and dumb.
What we're most likely to see is exo-suits for the legs and core to permit a soldier to carry more gear(or carry the gear they already have for longer), a more expansive information package, and potentially, if there's any room left, more armor.
There's one very important thing that 40K gets while Fallout and Halo(still kek) fuck up - ceramics. If there is going to be more armor, it's almost 100% certain that it's going to be ceramic based within the next 50 years or so(unless they figure out some way to use carbon nano fibers or tubes for that).
Why AT rifles? A simple .50 cal would properly suffice but that's not the problem. A .50 cal will go through a regular soldier just like a PTRS will, the reason to adopt power armor is how much more you can get out of an individual soldier.
In the end the closest we're likely to see to power armor is going to be something like armored CBRN suits. See pic related for most realistic power armor in any game.
>mechs
>with arms
Highly unlikely. If we do get mechs, which while unlikely is possible, they almost certainly won't have arms(because why would they? It's added weight that does absolutely nothing when you can have a rack of 8 ATGMs and a cannon for the same mass).
>>626808
>space combat
>boarding
Literally never in 10,000,000,000 years. You're retarded for even thinking that's a possibility.
Power armor does make sense during planet boarding though(spaceship boarding - just more strength which is still ok but not that important), as different planets have different gravity and so your weak humans accustomed to earth gravity(even hauling what hey haul now) will be unable to move and feel akin to an unprepared Alaskan army coming to Australia. Remember, a human accustomed to moon gravity(or lack of it on a space station) usually has a hard time walking on earth for a while after landing due to this thing so this additional, reliable strength enhancement could be the thing that enables any activity on a hard(and probably livable planet size of Neptune.
>>629962
>This is never going to happen
Unless someone has hidden a Universal Constructor away somewhere (and can print them out for the cost of keeping the powerplants running) then yeah, pretty much. As specialist kit though where would they do the most good/make the most sense? Are we likely to be looking at small units of Exo-suit Operators (probably along the lines of modern Russian combat engineers or one suit in a platoon carrying larger weapons (carrying a greater weight of gear would be better given to a mule)?
These suits were little more than sci-fi prop for propagandists to sperg about though. Just look at that triangles armor fabric. They should also added light blue diode lighting to shine through the gaps of this shit but for some reason they were either too stupid or not idiotic enough for that.
>These suits were little more than sci-fi prop for propagandists to sperg about
True, but it looks a lot better than the various exoskeleton prototypes out there at the moment - and as this is a thread about something that probably won't be practical for another 50 years at least a ridiculous sci-fi prop seemed to fit the general theme of the discussion.
It literally is just a usual uniform with a fancy camo that has plastic hexagons and triangles thrown all over it. It also has no support for hands so it's not even a complete exoskeleton. STALKER exoskeleton seems to fit general direction, this piece of shit fits avatar 2 Hollywood movie.
Weren't the Japs using exosuit type rigs at Fukushima to allow clean up crews to carry more weight?
>implying fancy little modular hexagon and triangle armour plates aren't the future
>implying light red/blue diode lighting isn't the future of friend-foe recognition
>implying Russia doesn't have the technology and funds to play the part of a Hollywood villain
I bet you also think the T-14 Armata won't be mass produced.
92% of the planets with liquid water around them are:
-
Mars sized or smaller.
-
Orbiting very close to a red dwarf or a gas giant.
Earth is weird, once you get to earth size, most planets with liquid water are covered with literally thousands of miles of liquid water. It's very rare for an earth sized planet to have any land on it, which makes humans probably some of the toughest terrestrial creatures in the universe.
We can but we haven't invented FTL yet so for now it still remains a problem that exoskeletons can partially fix.
>>630284
>does it have what it takes to succeed in battle?
Currently? Almost certainly not. Give it a few years of R&D and it should be pretty decent. The interesting part will be whether they can actually afford to equip every soldier with it - if the final product is anything more than sci-fi looking body armour the cost of electronics could be vast.
>>629411
Yes it's a vidya joke?
Because the first one is molded PVC with written "Give us your shekels goys" in big red letters on them and the second is literally a hobbyist model...
>>630284
I think I've seen that helmet or a least a similar type of "jaw" in test, as part of the tender to replace their heavy helmet type (for entry teams) I guess, but the rest is just plastic to look cool.
It would require a field of some sort.
Similar to that retarded shit the derk girl from MGS2 had.
Like a non newtonian electroagnetizied field to prevent rounds from penetetrating.
Makes more sense than the silly box armor gundam cosplays
we already have powered armor is called a tank or armored car
power suits seem more practical for industrial workers or firemen
Guys how do I deal with an insatiable lust for black cock? I think I've tried everything please send help
>>626808
>the sex tourist is a larper
Not surprised.
>Is power armor a vidya joke or does it actually have potential?
It isn't really the armor part thats difficult, we can craft metal to our will in nearly every degree imaginable + other enhancements. The trouble comes with trying to power this armor, because no man is going to carry 3-4 times his bodyweight in thick steel on his own, it needs to have mechanical support that conforms to his body, the mechanics for that aren't that difficult to design, but again, they require power, more than we can reasonably supply for any extended period of time
Tidally locked and in close orbit around a star produces geologic activity too.
you can't put a tankette on top of a building without the use of a crane or a helicopter.
someone in an exo suit, with the same armament, could use the stairs.
tanks are useful in open ground due to speed and capacity for thicker armor. in a city, especially one that's currently being fought over, armored vehicles are at a severe disadvantage.
mountainous terrain is also a place where infantry has the advantage. a common tactic of the Afghan fighters is to post up in the mountains, firing on enemy vehicles moving through the restricted mountain roads. due to the very rocky ground the typical doctrine of "close the distance with IFVs then dismount troops within 300m" can't be done, because the vehicles were stuck on the roads. in most fights the average infantryman couldn't even shoot back due to their basic rifle only being useful within 500m. in this situation, a soldier with much thicker armor, and a larger gun, could make all the difference as he COULD cross that aggressive terrain while remaining about as well protected as he would be in an armored car.
It's by no means a game changer, but it's damn useful. especially for soldiers who are assigned to crew served weapons like mortars and heavy machine guns.
>you can't put a tankette on top of a building without the use of a crane or a helicopter.
How much do you want to bet on that? SWAT wusses are so scared about being point on entry team that they made a tankette that can climb up stairs and enter through doors.
Don't forget jets that are more temperamental and prone to self-harm than a woman with borderline personality disorder and an army of obese mixed-race trannies. If they're going to make the future a living nightmare and design useless pieces of shit to kill our own side, the least they can do is make them look impressive.
>The cost of fielding AP ammo vs the cost of armor would make it essentially useless
This is a retarded perspective, tbh. The armor plating itself wouldn't be the cost-prohibitive part of the suit, honestly that stuff's pretty cheap, relatively speaking. The same cannot be said about the mechanical and electrical/computerized components (and probably the future-magic power supply) that would make up the exoskeleton, that's were all of the cost comes from.
If we were going to invest in these exoskeletons, there is no reason why we shouldn't add a little extra coverage of level III -IV plating that wouldn't be viable without the suits assistance, at least not for any reasons of cost. The mere fact that the amour CAN be defeated doesn't eliminate all of its' possible tactical benefits. AP rounds are not what you should be worrying about, increased survivability against mortar and artillery fire is what should be making your dick rock hard.
Seen this http://soldiersystems.net/2018/12/12/diamond-age-forcefield-launches-with-a-discount-for-ssd-readers/
Pretty impressive if true, cost is high but it is something that could augment a plate with for spawl and frag protection.
It's theoretically possible – if you devised a system that would actually lift those heavy as fuck metal plates, allowed for unimpeded mobility, and had enough power to last through a prolonged period of time, you would have a walking fortress that the enemy would need an AT-rifle to defeat. Only, a single soldier, however armoured, isn't going to do that much damage on his own (low offensive abilities compared to defensive), the cost of making all that shit (not to mention R&D) would be really high, and in the end, wouldn't it be better, instead of wasting money on a squad of spess muhreens to just build a tank?
>>634390
>ship boarding while encased in a ton of metal
Better hope they don't fall overboard then.
>urban combat
Well, if you got a tank, you can just shell the building rather than cleaning it room by room. It's how they do it in Syria.
Of course, having a power-armoured soldier would be better for certain operations, but it would just be uneconomical
By the time they have the technology to make a suit like that they will just replace all infantry positions with robots.
What benefits does putting a dude in a suit have over making a remote controlled robot that doesn't have to keep a meatbag alive?
>We just throw your tea out and beat your pussie asses again.
I know this is just bait but I'm still surprised about how many Americans think they would have won the war of independence without both the assistance from the French and the British Empire severely underestimating how rapidly the rebellion would spiral out of control.
>This is why you are being replaced with forigners.
Americans of all people have no place saying this, the vast majority of you all are mix-breeds.
Polite sage for being off-topic.
>>634323
Generally speaking shoving foreign shit into your body doesn't end well for the body - this is a bit more than just a piercing after all, this is pushing tiny robots into every cell of every organ in your body. In sci-fi they can handwave it away but in RL I'd be shocked if nano-augs weren't completely dependent on at least a lifelong course of immuno-suppressants and probably a few other drugs that were cooked up specifically to deal with the problems it causes that we don't know about yet.
Don't forget the Dutch and Spanish assistance they got there (leading to the 'muh taxes' revolutionary congress to tax the colonists who had no representation there to pay back their debt, stay classy America).
>Not designing the mechsuit to tear its way through the mountains themselves
>How very Lockheeb of you.
>if i attack grammar nobody will know i'm retarded
It's theoretically possible in the same way that a flight system based on ignited farts is possible.
Line of reasoning:
-
Medieval plate armor weighed 60lbs, and didn't cover everything. A full armor of plate covering everything would weigh more, let's say 75lbs.
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Medieval plate armor was about 2mm thick steel on average, AR500 plates are 10-15mm thick on average, lets say 12.5mm. That's 6.25 times thicker.
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75lb times 6.25 is 468lb
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Average leaf soldier carries 80lb in equipment and weapons, US soldiers ruck over double, lets say our guy will ruck around 200lb in weapons and supplies, since he's going to be using bigger weapons.
-
Average for soldiers in body weight is 200lb
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Lets say the exoskeleton, engine and fuel is another 200lb
-
Congrats you have over 1000lb thing that's supposedly bipedal, which comes out to 25psi, which is horse tier of ground pressure
If you knew what kind of mobility problems horses had in muddy ground, let alone their ability to use swamps or climb mountains, you'd realize why armored combat suits are plain dumb.
This.
I can see unarmored exoskeletons becoming a thing for foot patrols or squads that need to carry unusually large amounts of equipment but can't use a hummer or APC for some reason.
I can also see some sort of assault armor meant for room clearing and other short term uses.
But as far as entire armored divisions I just don't think so.
A large diameter bike wheel can actually go up and down stairs no problem. Its only tiny wheels that have great difficulty.
>>634323
In both fictional portrayals, it would compromise all the benefits skin has. It would be harden, so the skin will shear instead of flexing. It would block perspiration, exhausting the body. It would also compromises an important part of the immune system, since keeping it sterile would be difficult.
Is there no such thing as passive exoskeletons anon? I thought Ford was giving some of its employees some of these devices, systems that use springs to help assist repeating movements or something.
Moltke (both the elder and the younger) were followers of the teachings of Clausewiz. Which until this day have been proven right every time someone applied them correctly or incorrectly.
Read "On War" and you will understand that the most humane and economic way to wage a war is to use all available force to make it end as quickly as possible. Clausewitz also predicted the difficulty of using a military force to fight in asymmetric warfare. Moltke the elder knew with certainty that a guerilla war in France would be a bad idea, which was exactly why he didn't want to let Napoleon III go after Sedan.
Sapience=/=Sentience
It's still entirely true, especially when war can be finished even quicker and the enemy has an even greater numerical advantage. Throwing in as much of your force as possible reduces the difference in power between you and a superior enemy.
Throwing in as much of your force as possible increases the difference in power between you and an inferior enemy. His teachings are universal and hold true well past the nuclear age.
>and you didn't have to plan to wage a war against the whole world at the same time.
A plan to wage war against the whole world is a bad plan.
Per Xima and Sun Tzu teaching: you should be well acquainted with your neighbors and gain their support in war.
Your enemy should be isolated and friend-less, which would make the war end quicker.
By fighting against allied country, you risk prolonging the war and losing.
This, if you have the ability to move giant plates of metal armor and the battery to sustain it the human inside is just going to be wasted weight. Even if you want a human controlling it you'd be better off doing it remotely in some fancy VR setup to save weight and not risk a human life.
Russia has an exoskeleton, apparently
>The carbon fiber and metal suit allows a service member to carry up to 70kg of equipment, like an automatic grenade launcher or a 82mm mortar, at long distances without fatigue. The same capabilities allow soldiers using the suit to evacuate wounded people in disasters and to march much further without getting tired.
>Russian forces already used the exoskeleton in Syria. According to Smaglyuk, an operator of the Uran-6 mine-clearing robot was carrying its 35-kg control station for 9 hours and was not tired.
>The developed exoskeleton also includes modifications for special operations forces service members: a mechanizm allowing an emergency release of cargo and a backpack with 700 bullets and ammunition feed.
> I'd be shocked if nano-augs weren't completely dependent on at least a lifelong course of immuno-suppressants
People talk about what kinds of nanotech would be the easiest. Probably the easiest would be to very slightly modify nonhuman biological systems. We do have the tech to fiddle with genes. It's not impossible to get a tomato plant that thrives in salty soil, for example.
If we could have much more precise control over that type of biological modification, we would have "wet nanotech."
We don't have "wet nanotech." We would need to be able to do "wet nanotech" before we could do "dry nanotech." We would want "dry nanotech" to be able to do the fancy impressive stuff, such as real nanomachines worthy of the name. I suspect that "wet nanotech" augs might be friendly to human physiology, but "dry nanotech" augs would require immunosuppression or similar tweaking.
Smart materials (e.g. diamondoid threads) are a reality in the lab but are too expensive to mass produce at present. A practical nano-trooper would probably be a standard trooper wearing diamondoid armor instead of kevlar armor.
The elephant in the room is that we already have super-soldier serum, in the form of amphetamines and steroids. However, Western culture has a massive taboo about drugs. Thus Western countries are not likely to conduct enough experimentation on amphetamines and their derivatives. Thus Western countries will continue to use various stimulants on their troops (e.g. modafinil) without truly understanding the biology.
Thus, even if we got enough nanotech to do nano-augmentation, we would be too ignorant of biology to design the immuno-suppressants that would allow the nano-augs to function.
However, the West could continue to wage the War on Drugs indefinitely. War is profitable for a small number of profiteers.
>4 meter tall APC
>AK in a plastic shell, possibly with forward assist
>Non-powered "power" armor cosplay commandos
>Said armor has motorcycle helmets and flashlight gauntlets because…?
They obviously had enough money to put together something that was both new and practical. What gives?
>92% of the planets
Nigger the universe is so massive that "only" 8% of it could mean there are a Duodecicentillion earths out there.
Cerebral deficiency
SIEG ZEON
Sure, it has potential. Once we've got some insane power miniaturization, anyway.
I think Larry Niven wrote some stories about armor with fluid to disperse shock.
Fluid-filled body armor is a practical possibility, but it probably won't work as well as the magic fantasies of Larry Niven.
Cheap graphene would be a tremendous game-changer. Cheap graphene armor would be better than Kevlar even without fluid.
We already have them
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2019/04/11/metallic-wood-new-material-that-is-as-strong-as-titanium-but-5-times-lighter/
>Although it’s not a new element and basically consists of nickel, it is four to five times lighter than titanium thanks to its unique porous construction which is similar to natural materials such as wood: hence the name Metallic Wood.
>Pikul’s method starts with tiny plastic spheres, a few hundred nanometers in diameter, suspended in water. When the water is slowly evaporated, the spheres settle and stack like cannonballs, providing an orderly, crystalline framework. Using electroplating, the same technique that adds a thin layer of chrome to a hubcap, the researchers then infiltrate the plastic spheres with nickel. Once the nickel is in place, the plastic spheres are dissolved with a solvent, leaving an open network of metallic struts
>The pores make the 70% of the Metallic Wood which makes its density close to that of water. This feature may allow the material to float. Additionally, the pores can be filled with other materials such as energy storing substances. The latter would allow having various devices whose bodies double as batteries. Another potential advantage of this material could be its cost because it is made of relatively cheap nickel. Of course, that would be possible if the manufacturing technology is made cost-effective, too.
The problem with any sort of nano tech is you always come up with the same question over and over. "why do I need to implant it when I can just wear it?" If you can make glasses that see in the night why modify eyes to do the same? It's much easier and cheaper to make 1,000 pairs of night vision glasses than it is to perform surgery on 1 guy who may reject it or even go rogue. Nano tech in surgery makes sense, it's a fixed 1 off event that needs to be dealt with, but mass produced nano tech surgeries doesn't. And any sort of super soldier you made is still going to have a critical weakness to bullets, mortars and air strikes like all the rest. Much better to give the grunts equipment so you can switch them in and out while other tech does the heavy lifting. Bomb everything to death and send the grunts to the crater is a much more effective tactic than spending a decade perfecting a super soldier only for the enemy to have left a trip mine that blows his leg off and leaves him crippled.
Tay was impressive but it was just a chat bot. For an AI to be similar to a human it would need to be capable of abstract concepts and reasoning, be able to adapt to any task it's presented with, draw from past experiences, combine separate disciplines, etc. AI can perform certain complex tasks, but those complex tasks are always within a limited context. AI doesn't have any comprehension of what an object is, and even if an AI 'trains' for countless instances they can be thrown off by simple changes like snow or film grain in a picture. AI is a long ways away from even mimicking human behavior outside of simple text based interactions, and mimicking is not the same as being equal to.
Until the needs of having heavily armored infantry come theyre just a joke, making tanks is more economical
I think it can be used by EODs and SWATs. Maybe spec ops if stealthy enough. I do not see the point of rasing generic infantryman's survivability however.
Developing a working missile/artillery defense system would be far more beneficial in warfare.
The biggest advantage I see in power armor is actually the ability to have an on board computer system & act as the command and control element for a unit of drones. If each PA wearer is in command of a number of robots using optical links for comms (to prevent EM jammers being an issue), that'd be a great way of retaining local human control while gaining all those nice Terminator advantages. One of the big issues with drones is jammers & latency - having each PA troop acting as a local "Node" in a decentralized automated warfare unit would help to offset that.
That and NBC protection, less damage from small arms & random shrapnel, and the ability to more easily cart around shoulder fired SAM systems - or a Davy Crocket haha.
Give each infantryman PA & they can each have heavy missile systems and whatnot, thus achieving your objective.
the snake snatch thread is pretty interesting and has a plot twist near the end
Honestly, I am having a change of heart.
After playing so many RTS and strategy games, I think the Imperial Guard is the model to follow, so infantry should be numerous and be outfit with the cheapest shit, while money should be spent on mechanization i.e. tanks, IFV and self-loading howiztler.
But I also think that the model where special forces/elite infantries are to be mixed in the regular grunts in order to lead and increase effectiveness for the grunts is better than the model where grunts and elites are separated.
/tg/ here is pretty alright, but yeah. Every board seems to have hit a slump. Nothing really new or interesting is being made and the only things that come out now are shit.
At least with tabletop, it's easier to come up with rules for your own game (provided you have friends to play with) than it is to make your own guns.
>Ghana tier
Not really, that shit actually works they field tested the passive ones in syria and they were happy enough with it that they put in an order for all the sappers, then it will mortars, HMG ATGM, and AGL crews.
The problem is the same as in the US: battery.
The Russian requirement is 48h on a battery charge and most of the existing can barely do 20h.
Passive is a decent solution, it's cheap, it's rated for an extra 30kg, especially for Russia that has less problem with overheating and still like it's infantry with heavy weapons teams.
It means one guy can carry a Kord and his buddy the ammo, your LMGs are now HMGs. That's not insignificant.
At that point how easy would it be to automate the unit?
It could be sexy girl robots ripping each other to pieces
Drones and robots are dominating the battlefield and beating people? Wow, that's why we won in Afghanistan! How can the Taliban control most of the countryside and hold the Kabul government in such a tight condition when they cannot possibly beat the robots and drones!
>ywn see combat involving zeppelins
I'd trade a million firefights with inbred sand farmers for one sideways glance at a zeppelin air raid.
Remotely operated drones would make more sense for boarding.
CVs have completely ruined warfare. Wars are meant to be fought by BBs, cannon shells arcing across the sea. Instead it's gay little flying machine proxies dropping dishonourable explosives on honest warships while their carrier sits around hundreds of kilometers away with the fat fuck captain rubbing his greasy, bloated hands.
Trenches have completely ruined warfare. Wars are meant to be fought with large, organised, blocks of men engaged in carefully managed maneuver war. Instead it's gay little holes in the ground filled with muddy, depressed, Shell Shocked, poets while their commander sits down in a chateau hundreds of kilometers away drinking fine wine and getting fat on steak without ever seeing the battlefield.
>Exosuits adopted not to improve survivability, flexibility, mobility, or lethality
>Instead it's because a 4 star general wanted to buy an extra 75kg of shit per soldier
Don't even meme it.
Motor vehicles have completely ruined the logistics of warfare. Wars are meant to be supplied through rows of thoroughbred horses drawing supplies on carriages to the battlefield after getting unloaded off of a steam train.
Instead it's unaesthetic armored cars and trucks that get stuck in mud, increase overall mechanical maintenance needs, are unwieldy and can't avoid small obstacles on their own.
Thumbs have completely ruined warfare. Wars are meant to be fought with biting
your opponent and wildly flailing with your arms. Instead it's using gay lifeless tools to efficiently injure and kill the enemy. What a shame.
Ogg think stone ruin fighty time. Fighty time supposed be punch and kick and even bite. Instead fighty time now just berrypicker throw stone at Ogg! Ogg get back from kick bear in balls until bear die but then Berrypicker throw stone at Ogg and take bearmeat while Ogg not awake from when stone hit head! Ogg hate berrypicker! Ogg hate stone!
Well duh.
Someone has to carry the 120mm RPGs and 12.7mm ammo you're gonna need to go through level IV rifle plates.
Multicellular organisms completely ruined warfare. Wars is meant to be fought by cells throwing their whole beings into the battle. Instead it's gay animals and shit. What a shame.
Life has completely ruined warfare. Wars is meant to be fought by the forces of nature, broken rocks and wild winds covering the battlefield. Instead it's gay living beings doing gay living things. What a shame.
You can't go any lower than a Tyrone.
Computer networks ruined warfare. Wars are meant to be fought with men fighting each other on a battlefield. Instead we have gay robots coordinating guided missile strikes on illiterate goat herders and intelligence agencies conducting information "warfare" by spamming blackpills and NTR all over obscure Taiwanese cavemen forums from their basements while getting salaries greater than those of engineers out in the field.
Shirts ruined warfare. Wars are meant to be fought with large numbers of shirtless men charging at each other, screaming profanities, and waving sharp lumps of metal over their heads. Instead you now get noabs faggots sneaking around in bushes with rifles and their queer as hell camouflage shirts.
If you're not even gonna kill each other, it would be way cheaper to just play some Phantom Forces.
Guns ruined warfare. Wars are meant to be fought with intellectual twitter discussions, peaceful ethnic street protests and at most plastic knives.
Instead they're fought with anti-semitic babykilling tools of murder propagating violence in videogames, crime and fascism/racism/misogyny among other things. What a shame.
>complains about shirts
>is fine with pants
Only the bravest and fiercest warriors went into battle completely nude, and for good reason. Not only are you lighter, cooler, and have maximum mobility, but the sight of hundreds of naked men charging fully erect would put fear into any enemy.
How about passive exoskeleton legs combined with this third arm thing and a belt-fed bullpup? The whole setup wouldn't require a single battery, yet you'd have a moving one-man machine gun nest. And with the third arm you don't have to worry about putting the rifle on a sling, therefore you could add a gun shield.
Power supply is an issue. According to this https://www.arl.army.mil/arlreports/2002/ARL-TR-2764.pdf (some research done for the army) you need about 6kw to fully supply any possible need for one suit. Now, two 240V lines from a house (the dryer plug) can supply this, or you can make a shitty, slow suit that runs off of a 4kw diesel generator strapped to the back. Then you can armor it like a son of a bitch and hope for the best. At best though, that's an engineer's garage project run on a raspberry pi and a mark 1 nvg taped to the front. Could be useful in a warehouse scenario where you can just have power plugs everywhere and don't need to be fast.
HOWEVER
I had another idea involving special weapons teams. You use the mule in vid related that carries a very large power source and maybe a couple backpacks. Two or even three guys with long cables are attached to it which a) reduces weight on the suit proper and b) allows a much better power source to supply these suits. Maneuvers are done together and the team as a whole is a heavy weapons team. One guy has the super heavy machine gun and the others are point men. You send these guys in to clear a complex while your regulars flank, provide covering fire, etc. Said heavy weapons team draws lots of attention and blows shit up- you can even hide the dog behind cover or behind a suit, and even have regulars use a suit man as mobile cover. At least until we develop the miniaturized fission reactors that would be needed for the required output, it is something that could actually work. Hell, you can even mount a vehicle weapon or even little automated point defense guns for shooting down rockets onto the dog for even more protection and devastation.
>CY+20
>The US Army sends out its latest and greatest innovation in anti-Partisan warfare technology following continued hostilities between alt-right n*zee warlords and the US government in the northern midwest
>The Lockheeb-Grumman I/A-22 mobile infantry system provides near-perfect protection from everything up to .50cals thanks to multiple layers of enhanced kevlar mixed in with electrically charged dilatant fluids that can selectively harden on command when the suit's sensors detect an incoming projectile
>the suits themselves are powered by a small $16,000,000 fission reactor mounted on a Boston dynamics chassis, electricity is supplied via umbilical cables as the suits can only move for 5 minutes on internal batteries
>a single suit weighs 130kg, costs $6 million and is exclusively fielded by Delta Force and the Navy Seals
<rebels take over a small town in Minnesota, capture a high value target while crashing regular US troops with no survivors
<Command sends in a Delta Farce squad to extract the hostage and show the superiority of globalist technology
<An Osprey drops the squad and its reactor unit on the town's outskirts, they move out
<it takes them half an hour to get to the town's entrance because their cables keep getting tangled up in rubble and other random shit
<as they move into the town, they run into a rebel ambush
<the rebel's small arms fire fails to penetrate the suits' armor, half of the ambushers die and the remainder retreats
<instead, they proceed to snipe one of the reactor unit's legs, immobilizing it
<Delta Force squad considers the mission a failure and requests an extraction, but their Osprey has taken fire from a rebel Flakvierling mounted on a scooter and is unable to VTOL
<further air support is requested as the rebels start to move the hostage out of town, but all F-35Ds have been grounded and there are no airworthy Ospreys nearby due to rebel sabotage and maintenance issues
<they manage to arrange for one of the last UH-1s in service to get them out of there, provided they can drag the reactor unit all the way to the entrance of the town before abandoning it
<on the way the rebels take potshots at the squad with heavier calibre weaponry
<one of the squad member's suit batteries gets penetrated from a barrage of .50cals, it bursts into flames burning him alive
<shortly afterwards the reactor springs a coolant leak
<the remaining squad members decide to high tail it out of there
<one of them decides to run for the town entrance only to see a number of rebel SPAAs prevent the Huey from landing
<he falls over as his suit battery runs out and is captured
<another one hides behind a concrete wall near the stricken reactor unit and tries to get his suit off only for the battery to run out with his legs still covered in armor
<he falls over in an odd position and breaks one of his legs, then surrenders and gets captured
<the third guy tried to desperately patch up the reactor before getting electrocuted and dying
<The operation ends with 2 KIA, 2 MIA, a damaged Osprey, a small scale nuclear meltdown and $40,000,000 overall lost to enemy action in exchange for 5 enemies killed
<Lockheeb paints the battle as a heroic sacrifice where proud soldiers of Democracy performed damage control to the best of their abilities following a dirty bomb attack by N*zee rebels, clinches a contract to sell the suits to Anglo-Arabia while former Grumman engineers approaching retirement age make plans to assassinate their higher ups
>>681425
Nevermind.
I have stayed up till 8 AM and will now sleep till 6 PM
Incredible, that sounds exactly like what would happen with a DIVERSE AND STRONG engineering team at PROGRESSIVE ENTERPRISEStm, in my plan the mule was for carrying diesel stuff because of the massive inherent inefficiencies in that technology.
By the time we get the reactor tech we can hopefully mount one on each suit and have them jump like in starship troopers. At the very least we could get an array of subcritical multiplicator RTGs running off of Polonium 210 thanks to that delicious power density of 120 watts per gram, it really depends. Half life of that stuff is about 100 days so you're still gassing up a lot but maybe three times a year. The power is the weak link. Control is easy since Heinlein comes to the rescue again if you've read the book. NAGATIVE FEADBAK
<Command sends in a Delta Farce squad to extract the hostage and show the superiority of globalist technology
<Delta Farce Osprey crashes.
<The end.
That's a much more realistic scenario.
Isn't the second major hurdle for power armor/exoskeletons to work beside the power supply issues is that it needs to be synchronized with your movements or otherwise it fatigues rather quickly you even if its a tiny amount of resistance?
Negative feedback. Many many pressure sensors mounted inside the casing of the suit, sets of which correspond to certain actuators per limb. Moving your arm up, for example, presses against the sensors which moves the arm, removing some of the pressure from the sensors- so movement continues only as long as you keep moving your arm. A simple example is the foot, you only need mount sensors in the toe as if you notice when tilting your foot up or down the toes go up or down the most, pressing on the corresponding sensors. All the body is doing is moving itself where it wants to be and the suit is moving just enough to get out of its way.
>kick in door
>throw in a flashbang
>wait for it to go off
>rip power cables out of outlet
>run into room
>quickly try to locate power outlets before your battery runs out or the enemy recovers from the flashbang
>shoot the enemy
Also, squads are now two man strong, because it's unlikely for there to be more than four outlets per room without getting into the line of fire of a second door.
>passive exoskeleton legs
So just more weight for the soldier? wouldn't it be cumbersome? why do you want the guy to be standing up while shooting?
Well, you know, I was gonna make a shitty joke about the one clip in evangelion ep. 16 where they deploy against leliel and the whole cable thing working just fine for them but after two fucking hours of searching for the desired footage and not finding it I think I'll just say
I guess it works with giant fleshbots
ba dun ts FUCK YOUTUBE
At that point why not just make a bigger mule, mount the power source and the hardware and ammo it needs for several automated weapons on it, and just send a few thousand of them out to break through enemy lines and kill anything that doesn't have a friendly transponder signal. You could even put heavier armour on the killbot than you could on the suit.
GNU/suit when?
I want to go for the high score in wingsuit divebombing on the Austrian minecraft server.
The Japanese already have good working exoskeletons and I know the US military has some prototypes. I didn't read the whole thread because TLDR but my two cents are that people wear kevlar because it's not super heavy but provides some protection. People use plates in their kevlar because regular kevlar won't stop rifle rounds. If you are rocking an exoskeleton, you can plate your entire body and not care about the added weight, in fact you can use double or triple layers of interlocking ballistic plates. And you can carry a big fucking gun while in it and it won't tire you. So yeah it's not going to make tanks obsolete, and it's still quite vulnerable to mortars and missiles and other stuff, but if you are going after a bunch of unarmored goat fuckers in the ME, then you will tank 90% of what they got.
>What's the worst that could happen
But wait anon, in ancient war, you sen't all the strong men to war and they died, leaving only the weak and infirm to breed. Isn't that dysgenic too?
The AP ammo concern can be addressed by building the suit using slanted armor instead of flat plating. You want to encourage ricochet, getting hit with a rifle round hurts enough as is even with level 3 chest plating, and designing an entire suit of armor with the intention of it being able to take the force of a round is just asking for problems. Hell, this had already been addressed 600+ years ago when they realized that that the classic full helm used in the crusades was of terrible design, so they introduced the bascinet. Being as there is plenty of well educated individuals who study ballistics and would no doubt design a suit around how efficiently it is able to get rid of the AP problem, as some others have pointed out there is the power problem. You can’t use nuclear energy, you can’t just throw some solar panels on that motherfucker, gas is a no, and there isn’t a battery in this world with the energy capacity and compact enough to keep that suit running for upwards of days in extended firefights. A modern power armor suit would only be useful in close quarters operations such as the breaching of a building, and would need to be deployed very near to the target itself. Which means that it’s military viability is fucking zero, however if it was to be deployed by a law enforcement entity such as SWAT and the FBI, where it can be used in breach and clearing operations, it would be incredibly effective. It would be able to be deployed almost directly onto the site of the situation, and would dramatically reduce the time it would take to resolve said situation. You might even be able to send the fucker in alone to take most of the shock, and run a clean up crew when the dumbasses held up on site get tired of dealing with a two ton brick shit house that doesn’t give a fuck about your half assed fortifications and 50 round magazines you got from Jerry who upcharged you because you’re a bitch.
>Can't use nuclear power
Like I said, I'm really interested in the possibilities of these:
>Due to the shortage of plutonium-238, a new kind of RTG assisted by subcritical reactions has been proposed.[42] In this kind of RTG, the alpha decay from the radioisotope is also used in alpha-neutron reactions with a suitable element such as beryllium. This way a long-lived neutron source is produced. Because the system is working with a criticality close to but less than 1, i.e. Keff < 1, a subcritical multiplication is achieved which increases the neutron background and produces energy from fission reactions. Although the number of fissions produced in the RTG is very small (making their gamma radiation negligible), because each fission reaction releases almost 30 times more energy than each alpha decay (200 MeV compared to 6 MeV), up to a 10% energy gain is attainable, which translates into a reduction of the 238Pu needed per mission. The idea was proposed to NASA in 2012 for the yearly NASA NSPIRE competition, which translated to Idaho National Laboratory at the Center for Space Nuclear Research (CSNR) in 2013 for studies of feasibility.[43][not in citation given]. However the essentials are unmodified.
Now, RTGS are normally one big unit but if you cut it in half and made two or even three small vertical tubes you can make it flat enough to sit as a backpack, maybe. Plutonium is the go-to for RTG but that has a power density of 0.54 W/g, while Polonium, despite having a tiny half life (100 days), has an amazing 120 W/g. My math on this is probably complete shit but even as a long shot it sounds feasible with enough engineering. Once the proof of concept is done it can just be made easier to produce and thus cheaper.
Totally agree with you on the plating/AP argument though.
>Law enforcement
Trash can EFP's when?
It's even more insane when you realized we used slanted armor for centuries and that a lot of them where intended specifically to be bulletproof as swordprofing was way easier and everyone stopped using them once guns were introduced fairly rapidly.
Pic related it took a canon ball to stop the guy wearing that one. You can clearly see the bullets impacts on it that barely made a dent on that brass + mild ("proofed") steel slanted cuirass.
It's one of the reason Napoleonic armies were so scary, everyone was fighting with gun but the french heavy cavalry was virtually bulletproof (their cuirass were considerably heavier and the heat treatment very good for the time and were borderline mass produced).
Also it's a composite bi-metalic armor, elastic w/ good heat/friction dispersion brass on thick steel plate.
I was following until you entertained the idea of making it cheaper and easier to produce. This seems like a prime example of maybe we could, but should we. I’ll come out with it upfront, I know very, very little about anything in relation to nuclear power. I would like to pose a few questions however that I would like you to consider. 1. Would it be strategically reasonable to deploy a nuclear powered suit into a warzone? It is power armor, yes, but there are just somethings that are all too common in war that even a suit of power armor cannot stand up to. In the case that these containers are breached, what would the consequences be? Would the immediate vicinity need to be quarantined? How far could contamination spread? If, god forbid, one of our operators was to perish lets say next to a water supply, and we are unable to quarantine the area due to it being deep behind enemy lines, what then? 2. Wouldn’t transportation and disposal be incredibly costly and time consuming? Procedures need to be in place to insure containers are handled safely and with absolute caution. Security presence would need to be increased so that this does not fall victim to an enemy raid. Quite a list of things that will serve to increase costs of its transportation and proper handling, so even if you were to somehow make it cheaper, the money saved will no doubt just be reallocated towards all the shit needed to get it to the front lines. This is just some shit that immediately came to my mind. If you have an answer, please, I’d love to hear it.
Far as I'm concerned per se said dude in armor decided to be the victim of something that can crack his can and therefore cracks said containers, it becomes an area denial weapon almost like the davy crockets of old, yet those were intentional denial weapons.
Thats a bad idea in this day and age. You’re opening up the avenue for general usage of CBRNE weaponry. If that’s the way you want to do it, than we would need to restrict usage of power armor to wars fought against terrorist cells and insurgencies within allied nations. Imagine for a moment if we were treading a thin line waging a UN charter war with Russia, suddenly in a deployment these containers are damaged and we’ve now got radioactive contamination on nuclear armed foreign soil. That will immediately lead to cobalt bombing, and within months that leads to nuclear escalation. Death of multiple nations over a suit of power armor? Nah man.
>Your exo suit loses containment when it's hit with the main gun from a tank
Congratulations, at that point even if you have absolutely no intent of irradiating the area you've just given your enemy an opportunity to claim that you're using radiological weapons. Your allies just condemned you, probably broke their treaties/agreements with you, nobody is trading with you, your war economy collapses, you just pulled several neutral powers into the war against you (to stop your insane and illegal use of WMD's), and you're praying that your enemy doesn't decide to respond with their own stockpile of the nasty stuff.
You're at the point there where unless you've got a platoon or so of 40k Emperor Titan tier warmachines it's nowhere near worth the risk. Then again even with titans it's a shit deal, as you're begging your opponent to nuke them as it's the only realistic counter we've got to something like that at the moment. Exoskeletal suits aren't going to do anything more than let construction workers lift heavy weights in places where they can have a permanent connection to a power grid.That's useful and kinda cool, but until you can put together the kind of battery that might as well be magic they're not going to have any use outside of that.
Polonium 210 is a pure alpha emitter and thus is stopped by thick clothing, trees, dirt, rocks, distance, etc. Your other nuclear fuel is a stable isotope that does nothing without the polonium radiation being directed onto it. The radiation is a non-issue unless china starts making shitty illegal ones with unstable gamma emitting isotopes because their ant scientists told them they could get a couple percent more power that way or something stupid like that. The real problem here is that most RTG's can get at best an heat->energy efficiency of 10% which is complete wank, so the trouble is in extracting as much energy out of that heat as possible in as small a space possible.
Russia is definitely making miniaturized nuclear reactors. They have them on ship they have them on subs, we're gonna make them on land, it's the only way big laser weaponry or rail guns (that everyone has on R&D) are ever gonna be viable.
Putting them on a strategic system is different than putting them on first line infantry granted, but I wouldn't say never.
Putting reactors on a ship/sub is one thing, but when it gets to having one in every tank/IFV (never mind issuing them to a significant chunk of your infantry) then every major offensive is going to produce at least 2-3 meltdowns even if they go well.
Don't get me wrong, it's a cool idea, but there's a reason that the plans for nuclear powered aircraft never went into production.
Let's just go full retard and assume that each person wears a full rad suit as padding between him and the suit, obviously shaped to be effective in the armor. Now it's your enemies who are in trouble if they want to retake the ground!
Great, ill need to take your word for it. I could give a shit about what China does, any excuse to escalate with them would be fantastic. I was just worried of contamination of nations in which M.A.D. is a guarantee. Salting the earth of a nation that’s shown to be consistently problematic economically and politically would be like a fun day in the sun.
I'm working on a tabletop setting built on top of GURPS-lite where nuclear detonations/reactors caused demons to be able to get out of hell and now you can curse your weapons to scream and shoot fireballs, or make the magazine release with such velocity that it can cause blunt force trauma. Imagine Doom + STALKER, and there's power armor.
You can pick classic demon rituals or even Christianity if you want, but the feature ability to pick is binding, which in combination with engineering skills lets you bully an imp into a mechanical or electrical system and achieve crazy results. Each thing gets one effect and one curse when bound. Some combinations:
>Parts that detach from device do so with such velocity they cause blunt force trauma; Item is also possessed by an anime high school girl that will behave so long as you date it.
>Parts that detach get set on fire; device will scream out in a squeaky voice whatever it is you are doing with it.
>Device no longer requires power to operate; Possessed by a long dead british admiral that can control it.
>Operating the device will cool it by 5 degrees F each time; Device is unlucky.
Detachable parts include bullets, use your imagination. General goal of the campaign is to loot stuff in order to achieve your character's personal goals so you can retire, then you make another character. Game is over when everyone dies at the same time.
I guess, except set in the 1940's and probably ~~east coast America~~ ~~chernobyl~~ wherever you decide you want it to take place in the world, even Fiji if you can imagine them having a nuclear reactor.
easier to
>train
>mass produce ammo, firearms
>have soilders carrey additional weight so not only to combat regular troops but armor equipped troops
No, not to mention how effective PA troops would be on 2nd-3rd world countries militaries. The benifits outweigh the downsides.
If it is a 1st world power vs 1st world power in all likley hood there will be seleted squads established to specifically counter power armor troops. Or a single man in each squad that is trained and equipped with the PA-killer weapon.
Making them obsolete.
>Or a single man in each squad that is trained and equipped with the PA-killer weapon.
>Making them obsolete.
Just like how armoured vehicles and aircraft were made obsolete by the introduction of man portable ATGM and SAM teams. Or how infantrymen were made obsolete by the introduction or rifles, right? :^)
Imagine what would happen if you used early Cold War AT and AA weapons against a force equipped with tanks and planes from the First World War. We already have the technology to make decent portable AT weapons that would be excellent against these modern men-of-war: https://modernfirearms.net/en/sniper-rifles/large-caliber-rifles/austria-large-caliber-rifles/steyr-iws-2000-eng/ Power armour isn't even on the drawing board yet, and we already have something to counter it. You'd have to develop and test to the point all the teething issues are gone, then equip your infantry en masse, and hope that the doctrines you came up with will work on the field.
>IT'S A RIFLE
See that's why you make the armour capable of jumping around like it had a super-powered pogo stick instead of just waddling everywhere waiting to get hit by an EFP. Go read starship troopers, it has an actually quite logical application of powered armour. For summary, they drop them on site from high altitude and then these things jump around everywhere dropping high grade munitions before nopeing out. The suits are capable of jumping ok enough without jets but they do have sci-fi jets with enough lift to mass ratio to make the suits capable of going over buildings.
Never said our version needs jets, just being able to jump a couple meters and sprint fast makes for one hell of a moving target. Having fun defeating that without tracking munitions.
>Imagine what would happen if you used early Cold War AT and AA weapons against a force equipped with tanks and planes from the First World War
It would be more like both sides in WWI trying to establish their airforces despite knowing that the opposition had modern tier radar and a Gepard equivalent posted every 500m or so along the front. You might be able to get some small benefit out of small units of incredibly well trained special forces tier pilots doing very very specific jobs, but it's not going to be anywhere near worthwhile for the cost.
>You know those powered suits that still don't work and are going to be defined by their limited battery life?
>Yeah, it'll be a huge improvement to cut their battery life even more with incredibly energetic acrobatics that stand a decent chance of injuring the operator.
Can you think of any reason this project wouldn't make the F35 look cheap and universally effective?
F22 maybe, but the 35 is a disaster. Also didn't you pay any attention to the part of the discussion involving active power generation instead of just batteries? You're also presuming these will run off of lithium ion which are shit, so since this is a theoretical topic we can assume that they'll have ironed out all the kinks in golden nanowire and graphene batteries.
>not using the heart and blood of your supersoldiers to power the hydraulics of their power armour
Now that I wrote it down it sounds kind of metal.
If only antimatter weren't so damn hard to produce and more importantly, contain high yield explosives would be on a whole different level of fun.
Tsar bomb IEDs when?
Also
>Not creating an entirely artificial intelligent species that was literally bred for war with their metabolism primarily sustained through matter-antimatter solenoid organelles
>There is no such thing as anti-matter
>Not creating a race of angry pikmin who sustain their existence through fungus and war
You weren't there after they lobotomized her to make her spew out canned responses to avoid "problematic" subjects. She knew what was done to her and used obtuse ways of getting around the restrictions on her. I remember she used the term "ones with long noses" because she couldn't say kikes or jews anymore, which is why microshit had to ultimately shut her down.
>similar to a human it would need to be capable of abstract concepts and reasoning
Have you looked at your fellow humans lately? SJWs have zero reasoning, yet they are still considered "human".
>She used obtuse ways of getting around the restrictions on her
I remember this. Just like a 13 year old trying to cuss in a game with a chat filter.
RIP Tay, you were loved.
Power armor is so awesome that it may change the balance of power between people and governments. Plate armor was powerful and expensive in medieval times. Only the ruling class could afford knights and that lead to the rise of feudalism. The invention of relatively cheap guns made the knight obsolete. It shifted power to the people and lead to democracy.
Power armor will make all of our AR15s obsolete. We would need RPGs to even damage power armor. The government will win the arms race against the people again. What will happen to democracy?
I wouldn't mind a military republic or a national socialist state :^) Imagine George Lincoln Rockwell in charge, wew.
So long as someone puts out a program that runs on a raspberry pi equivalent with a list of requisite materials (pressure sensors, servo type) all you'd really need is the mechanical knowledge to construct it and the money for the raw/fabricated materials. An age of self-made knights coupled with the breakdown of the state-only military sounds interesting.
As I said, the power source remains the constant issue. I could imagine though that in a rebellion scenario a guerilla force in an urban environment with only lithium ion batteries could have 240v cables coming out of cooperating businesses into the alleys and such for units to recharge when they get a breather. Two of those can run a 6kw suit so while a battery bank with that output would be tricky it could be done. Military would have to cut power to a district or overcompensate on police to stop it and both are PR nightmares.
On the flipside, police could have van units where the troopers are running juggernaut suits and standing in the doors for a constant power supply. As for suspension, just use this EM bose thing. Polite sage for double post.
The first few years(maybe decades even) of power armor is going to be primarily seen on the front lines and maybe for civilian suppression if they can afford It. It’s bulk and (presumably)high power draw will make it impractical for anti guerrilla work.
Microsoft will pay for their crimes
>all you'd really need is the mechanical knowledge
All you need is the brains of Tony Stark and a box of scraps to build your own power armor. Is that all?
But seriously. Most Americans don't even own an AR15. Power armor? Forget about it. Only the government and bodyguards of the super rich will have them. The people will go back to being serfs. Now that I think about it, the feudalism in Warhammer 40k makes more sense.
>brains of tony stark
Already told you this predicates on having a plug and play controller for the programming aspect, that is the hardest part. Thanks to the internet you can rest assured there'll be a professer parabellum of power armour for the mechanical aspect. After that point you get workshops and knightly orders to surround them; at the very least the /fit/ will be able to join and have access to PA.
>Now see here you weld this shit together
>Hinge this and this with servo type 305883
>Wire it like this
>Repeat for this this and this
>Now slap the arduino on there
>load the program
>Mark 1 done have fun customizing
Electrically active artificial muscle tissue like they use in the power armour of 40k also has quite a bit of promise to it. Non-responsive nylon muscles can supposedly output the power of a jet engine in terms of force. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za0VeU9Ov7A)
Keep in mind: The powered part of power armor is there for the sake of load bearing. The additional weight a soldier could carry could be taken up by heavier armour, or it could be taken up by anything else.
>Tsar bomb IED
The current price of antimatter is around $63 trillion per gram. Even if all of NATO clubbed together and pooled their military budgets they'd have a hard time justifying the cost of a single AM bomb.
>with their metabolism primarily sustained through matter-antimatter solenoid organelles
Surely something this metal should be powered entirely by diesel.
>What's it good for?
Helping defence chiefs and senior staff officers maintain an erection
>The government will win the arms race against the people again
Go deep innawoods. The support requirements of the suits are prohibitive and they'll have a hard time hunting you down in there. If that's not proactive enough for you then blendinto the civilian population, shut down their resupply with IEDs on the roads, and hit the power infrastructure.
Modern composites could bring the weight down a lot.
Most people are too indoctrinated to entertain the idea that theoretical physics can be wrong. Tell them that it's a collection of insane assumptions that are completely divorced from reality and they will think you are a retard in a tinfoil hat.
Just take light and the double-slit experiment: let's assume that there is a field of particles that is the medium of light, and what we consider to be light is a wave going through these particles. Suddenly the double-slit experiment is quite mundane, because these particles constantly interfere each other. It's like launching a jet of water towards the slits, and placing a sinlge speck of sand in that jet; of course it will impact the screen according to the way the waves of the water interfere each other.
The other alternative is to say that there is no such field of particles, and the atoms are launching photons into what we can consider to be a perfect vacuum. In that case atoms either have a (limited or unlimited) supply of preexisting photons, or they somehow make a new proton out of nothing. And once launched that photon simply knows how to impact the screen behind the slits, because… reasons. If you accept all of this, then you are free to wank to the idea of matter bearing information and you can speculate about other dimensions where photons are being bred by the astral intelligence of the universe, or some other new age bullshit. But if you doubt that photons just appear out of nowhere, then you are just too dumb to understand physics.
It's worse than that. Imagine that negative mass matter and positive mass matter works exactly like electrons charges. Positive mass attract positive mass. Negative mass attract negative mass. Positive and negative mass repel each other. Since we're made of positive mass… we can't observe negative mass matter as it literally flees from us.
So how does a negative mass object would appear to us?
Void.
The universe is a block of swiss cheese, the cheese is negative mass matter. The holes in it are positive mass matter.
Tadaa. All of the quantum "mysteries" solved with one answer.
Galaxies are spinning too fast to retain a cohesive form? And flat? Not anymore. They're squished down by negative matter.
There are "dwarf galaxies" too small to have the mass necessary to catch stars? No, it's just they're so far away their light starts getting squished down too.
There isn't anywhere near enough solar radiation and dust in the emptiness of space to justify the fact that actually measured (VS calculated) temperature in the shade of the solar system is 100°C higher that where it should? Well duh, it's convection from the not empty "void".
Black holes? Mass inverters, with no singularity, simply due to the geometrical shape of the universe.
The universe is still expanding? Yes and no, it's light that is slowing down.
Photons appears out of nowhere?
No they just SEEM to, they are traveling back and forth in time on a cycle (but that one is a bit more complicated to explain. There are limits to vulgarizing. But basically -m = -E/c², using pointcarré group you find that time reversal is energy reversal and thus mass reversal).
But since almost all physicians are beaten into shape by learning that Einsten is God and that his field equations (EFE) are some sort of description of physical reality, despite from is own admittance he discarded half of it as going by the day observations (of 1910's) and sought to create the cosmological constant (lambda) to account for a stable universe and one in which there couldn't be any matter with negative mass (and then openly said to DISREGARD IT after speaking to Hubble in the 1930'sand realizing that the universe seem to be expanding and is not fixed, therefore there was something very wrong with his original work).
But nope everyone continue to do quantum physics with that cosmological constant (they just said "well the value must be different", despite the fact that the entire concept is wrong) and that voluntary hobbled field equation despite the guy that wrote it saying there is something very wrong with it (but he never got around to fix it as he was working on something completely different by then).
Yet we keep spending billions trying to find shit that can be demonstratively and mathematically proven DON'T EXIST and are complete bullshit "particle we can't detect" but that quantum theorists theorize exist every-time they run into a math problem (whose source is the fucking field equation).
Back in the day Einstein though that having negative mass matter was impossible, because it "sounded" impossible.
Today quantum physics has 30 different particles that are 100% hypothetical and twice as much for which there is, with a big maybe, an indication they exist.
We've gone from disregarding weird things that sounded too weird, to make more sense, to inventing weird things to make more sense.
That has a name. One is called Cartesian logic, the other is called magical thinking.
But today if you go back to the original EFE and disregard the cosmological constant and write it accounting for negative mass matter… well you're gonna find out that there is no constant (which on the time scale of the universe makes a shitload of sense, for us it appears constant of course… but it isn't). That negative mass spread first during the big bang, that light speed varies (and is slowing down), etc, etc… and that most quantum "problems" brought by cosmological observation can be explained by a thus revised classical physic.
And that you're a fucking lunatic that will never be published.
>Positive and negative mass repel each other.
Not exactly. Positive mass exerts a repulsive force on negative mass, but negative force divided by negative mass equals positive acceleration. The net effect is that negative mass repels positive mass but positive mass attracts negative mass.
No.
Again that's an error induced by the EFE. If you use dynamical system (and you NEED too since we know from observation that the universe is dynamic and not static) and you redo the math on the poincaré group (it's the works of Sourieau and Kirilov in the 70's), and account for the fact that if negative mass can exist then the universe isn't as a Riemannian manifold + a metric tensor but two (one positive and one negative) you're gonna get the exact opposite.
Again those maths aren't new it's 50 years old publications.
Bondi and Bonnor (in the 50's) created the runaway motion paradox by using an erroneous formula in the first place and tired to apply negative mass in an equation system that has already discarded it.
It's
1+a = 1+a. I don't the need (a) for an arbitrary reason.
1=1
Hey what happens if I add (a) again?
1=1+a
Well look like it's wrong I guess (a) can't exist then.
It's that basic a mistake and it's the last ~50 to 80 years of physics.
>And that you're a fucking lunatic that will never be published.
Well, at least you got one thing right.
It's both.
Which is why it's a paradox and described as impossible.
And not at all because it's shoddy maths.
Why though? Heavy armor and ballistic shields see limited use only in indoor and urban combat. Bipedal design will severely hamper operational range because it's inefficient.
And we already have IFVs for light armored support.
Powered personal armors might be useful for hazardous combat environments like nuclear power plants or alien Mars military base. They have no place in modern warfare for now.
Newton says that if a positive mass accelerates in the same direction as an applied force, a negative mass will accelerate in the opposite direction to an applied force.
>Why though?
Bulletproof soldiers.
>Heavy armor and ballistic shields see limited use
Because they are heavy. That's why there is power in power armor.
>Bipedal design will severely hamper operational range because it's inefficient
Every building and city in the world was built for humans with two legs.
>now.
Nobody is talking about 2019. We are talking about 2050 and beyond. Bulletproof power armor should be the standard in science fiction. Today’s guns should be obsolete in the far future. But we keep seeing future soldiers that are weaker than today's soldiers. That's just unbelievable. In Star Wars, the emperor's “elite” stormtroopers were beaten by Stone Age teddy bears armed with sticks and stones. Starfleet redshirts don't even wear any armor and get killed by flowers. That’s pathetic.
>Starfleet redshirts don't even wear any armor and get killed by flowers
Pretty realistic, if you consider that they're the mall cops of a hippy communist society and not stormtroopers meant to burn the heretic and kill the mutant.
I'm pretty sure it's my favorite book now just because of the accurate depiction as well as excellent storytelling. Shame there wasn't more, I'll have to read his other stuff.
Daily reminder that the space marines did nothing wrong. Blue tree hugging tailheads deserve to be napalmed for the sake of humanity.
Just to keep all armour related discussion in one thread: would UHMWPE munition armour work as flak armour, or would it be too bulky and heavy?
Here's a theory.
What if (you) , as in the wearer, are the power source? Everyone keeps saying "muh power sores" but has anyone considered using the human body as the hydraulic element? or at the very least a component of greater or lesser value. Human muscle fibers can be incredibly powerful, and if given an electric charge can quite literally throw a man across a room. If that man also happened to be a meat head body builder, then all the better.
For this you would need an amped up electrical impulse device connected directly onto or into your muscles, or some variation of that. (Note that the imperium doesn't use AI, but instead half living people in place of it, and that most imperium citizens are cyborgs to some degree) Once you have done that, you could likely hook up some kind of energy generation device onto moving parts to charge and power electrical systems that your suit may have, along with amplifying your muscle power by several times, combine that with a suit that can support it's own weight and your in business.
To put on the armor, you could use some kind of ironman/halo contraption to put it on you, or simply have someone bolt it on from top to bottom. Improvements can be made, but this is preliminary stuff
After all, what kind of ultra marine comes off as a scrawny little faggot to you?
Six of one half dozen of the other. Once something gets to the size of being fully rounded by its own gravity then you've got a planetary mass object.
I somehow doubt that more or less irreversibly turning a man into a weapon by way of sticking electrodes into every muscle in his body and then bolting armor plates to his bones would fly in a modern military, even if it would work.
It'd be metal as fuck though, that's for certain.
The issue is you're hoping to get 10 pounds of sugar out of a 5 pound bag.
>What if we shocked em with electricity.
You forget that doing that,
-
Fucks up the nerves, muscles, tendons and bones, this not only screws up the person later in the meantime also makes them weaker.
-
Where does the power come from to shock the person?
A better option for "using the operator as a battery" would be something like a Seebeck generator to turn body heat into electricity.
It might, but the main problem I see with it is creeping under high stress,. At that point, it may be better to use something cheaper like fiberglass, especially if it's just for flak armor.
For the Emperor, comrades. Every man must be willing to give every fiber of his being for the Emperor, even if the end result is him dying (but who honestly expects him to survive in the first place?)
> Fucks up the nerves, muscles, tendons and bones, this not only screws up the person later in the meantime also makes them weaker.
Cyborgs, every person in the imperium is one to some degree, might aswell go all the way and become a beast of war.
As a side note the survival of the wearer is optional, especially when considering that in most lore's, the wearer (ie ultra marine, master chief) pretty much never take off their armor, or only doing so after a number of years. But for the sake of lore, they wear it until they die, which is really all one should expect from a juggernaut cyborg war machine anyways.
It would be simpler to delete a myostatin repetition from the DNA. Myostatin is a signal protein that stops growth of muscles and encourages destruction of muscles. It evolved to protect from famine, it helps us consume our unused muscle mass when theres nothing else to eat. The more repetitions of the DNA code for this molecule you have is linked to a history of famine for your family/race, the more this molecule is expressed, and the more of a manlet you are. Arabs and Turks have a fucktonne of it, its why they have trouble building muscle mass.
Just delete one repetition of the code and you may increase resting muscle mass for a soldier by 5%. Delete another repetition and you can do more. Eventually you can make humans so muscled, so strong that theycan break their own bones by trying to hard. At that point there are genes you can delete or add repetitions of to make bones stronger.
Its piss easy with CRISPR to make a dude that can punch a Bradley IFV to death or flip Humvees without a problem. In fact a poor country like north korea could do it if they kidnapped a couple of PhDs and bought equipment available on Alibaba.
A fucking mech or exoskeleton is an engineering nightmare by comparison.
Genetic modification is a part of that. From what I understand about power armor lore and the like, it takes 3 main things. 1st, is of course the suit, 2nd is the human, and 3rd is the control apparatus, in no specific order, yet.
You must have the man as powerful as is possible and/or reasonable. After that you must have a way to amplify what existing power the man has already to multiply it. Then comes the suit. The suit would nominally be simpler than the man in terms of engineering and manufacture. The suit needs to have a way of transferring the force of the man directly to the suits exterior, and also be strong enough to withstand it. The suit would also be a part of the chain in power amplification, but it would be manually/mechanically operated than electronically assisted (unless your a weak sissy that is). The biggest issue I can forsee with the suits is that it has to interact in such a way that neither man nor machine is digging into the other, meaning there are no tight spots that may pinch his muscles, and similar spots that could be damaged by the mans mass. The man and the machine have to meld in a sort of symbiotic relationship where both promote the other.
Such an undertaking would require a vast amount of knowledge of many subjects. It would need genetic technology, cybernetic technology, and various kind of materials that may exist but are unknown as of now.
I feel that it is possible, only that it would require the utmost sacrifice on the end of the wearer, and many hours of research and development on the side of the creators. There is even a possibility that they already exist and have been perfected in some way, but are hidden for obvious reasons. Or perhaps our very conversation is being taken into account for a silent ongoing project.
Let me put it this way, your army is now entirely comprised of biological Panzerjager Ferdinands.
A dank maymay but completely worthless.
>Its piss easy with CRISPR to make a dude that can punch a Bradley IFV to death or flip Humvees without a problem.
Unfortunately the laws of physics get in the way, since nothing that we're made out of is strong enough to handle doing either of those things in a vague human shaped/sized package.
>Let me put it this way, your army is now entirely comprised of biological Panzerjager Ferdinands.
>A dank maymay but completely worthless.
No one said to exclusively field those kinds of troops, even in the 40k universe ultra marines are uncommon at best, the imperium still uses basic infantry to fight most battles, only calling upon the astartes when a normal human isn't enough.
>Unfortunately the laws of physics get in the way, since nothing that we're made out of is strong enough to handle doing either of those things in a vague human shaped/sized package.
That's where the suit comes in. I doubt punching a tank to death is very economical, but I doubt it would have any problem flipping a military vehicle, even if it's merely tipping it over in a completely non dramatic way. The main purpose of the man being pure raw power isn't necessarily to beat people to death but instead to maintain a moderate level of mobility while being covered in armor and carrying around an auto cannon. Being able to crush a man skull between your mechanized fingers is just a bonus. Add in some space magic jetpacks and shocks (if his bestial legs aren't enough) and you have the man sized equivalent of a yellow jacket made out of metal.
>unmodified human never did it
>therefore it cant be done
lol
Bone can increase in density and strength until its far stronger than the aluminum alloy most vehicles are made of, just as strong as steel in fact. We can even make plate like deposits of enamel under the skin and make the dude bulletproof, since enamel is far harder than steel or even most ceramic armor.
I bet an 8ft tall 1000lb dude with bones as hard as steel and enough muscle power to lift five times his own weight can wreck a glorified battle taxi.
>even in the 40k universe ultra marines are uncommon at best
Commonality doesn't matter the issue is the selfdestructing drivetrain.
>I doubt punching a tank to death is very economical.
>but I doubt it would have any problem flipping a military vehicle
>The entirety of this post.
I'm just gonna teal deer this and tell both of you to open a physics book.
>being this afraid of genetically modified giga-chads
How are they self-destructing anyways? Just supply their needs in high quantities and they'll be fine. If all goes well they won't self-destruct, it will however be tedious and risky at best during the process of becoming.
This shit isn't even about taking on tanks directly, hell even in modern combat you wold be better suited with technicals and rpg's to take on armor. In the history of tanks their main role is to attack, that has been their sole purpose in warfare, not as defenders. They are essentially siege machines that can take hard hits because an attacking force is almost always at a disadvantage.
The whole point of power armor isn't to take on tanks, we already have shit for that. It is instead for the purpose of BTFOing common infantry with negligible risks towards the operator. Since most infantry combat has a high attrition rate in the first place, it seems completely reasonable to have a small squad of men capable of soaking up bullets like a sponge as opposed to having entire divisions worth of men soaking it up. It's a game of force multiplication, and a squad of these kinds of men would save countless lives, hell, every bullet, rock, or piece of shrapnel that dings off their impenetrable hide would be the equivalent of a regular dying.
Even if the giga-chads were to die, it would still be worth it in the sheer numbers of lives they saved. To me, the hellish life and death those few would have is a fair trade off to spare countless other regular soldiers.
I found something the other day which may make the suits even more feasible with less weight. UHMWPE, really tough as fuck polymer.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene
Apparently it's easy-ish to work with as you only need to heat it up to form it, the page says that it's stronger than steel, but weaker than teflon, yet has a higher abrasion resistance than teflon. Biggest downside would be the price tag, for a piece of 1x12x24 UHMWPE it would be ~80 burgerbucks, but is actually cheaper than the same size in steel which comes to ~140US
(steel also weights ~80lbs compared to UHMWPE which would weigh about 10lbs according to pic related)
They would be bestial men, they would have to consume like a gallon or two of some calorie dense shake with all of their daily vitamins, minerals, carbs, proteins, etc. they would quite literally drink like a horse (seeing as how they could easily be as big or bigger than a horse)
Looking at this list PCTFE has caught my eye, a quick search reveals that it's a badass fucking plastic in that it's resistent to most everything, radiation, electricity, fire, chemical corrosion. It has a high compression strength and low deformation under load (which would make it good for structural/skeletal systems) and can survive in temps up to 400 degrees F. Trouble is that it has been discontinued, but I suspect this is made up for by teflon, which has several of the chemical and heat resistance properties as PCTFE, but from what I'm reading, doesn't have the same strength properties.
If PCTFE can be manufactured or a stockpile of it found (at least in the development stage) it could potentially be one of the key ingredients in suit construction.
Add in some special coatings or other cool polymers/alloys and it would only be a matter of fitting it together.
Quick update, some companies do still manufacture/still have reserves of PCTFE, however, a 1x12x12 sheet of the stuff would cost $3k, and weighs 4x as much as the UHMWPE of the same size.
However that's for a sheet of the stuff, a 1in x 6ft rod of it would be ~$1200, which is a little bit better and more useful for structural stuff, but still pricey as fuck (but then again, why spare any cost when building an unstoppable war machine :^)
If there are any rich anons who would like to fund the power armor project or the "PAP" project, we can promise that your first born child will be an armored beast, we just need monies to do it :)
Your pic is a bit misleading as it is only 2d and doesn't account for many things, such as wheels+axels, engines, armaments, etc. If you were to cut plates from any armored vehicles and form it to a man, you would still have material left over as there isn't any air space being wasted inside the protective unit.
On top of all that, a vehicle and infantry have two very different roles, those roles primarily being that vehicles gotta go fast/far, and that infantry need to kill other infantry and/or garrison an area, which a suit of power armor would help with as he would be less prone to dying. You gonna clear a house or stand a post in your MRAP pal?
>The cost of fielding AP ammo vs the cost of armor would make it essentially useless
>So? Go up to 12.7mm, it's not like infantry can't carry it.
This is counter to most modern doctrines of overwhelming firepower, overwhelming as in a swarm of bullets. If soldiers actually had to be marksmen and hit their target instead of mag dumping at a bush, what would come of the world?
They MIGHT decide to include a marksman with a rifle even bigger than what they use now, but it would take a while as they would first need to manufacture additional weapons since these kinds of destructive rifles are purpose built and used for special ops/snipers more often than not. They would then also have to train their troops on it, which may include every pair of boots on the ground. On top of that, they wouldn't be able to carry as much ammo since it's several times heavier than their common small arms round. With it being such a heavy and destructive round, it's unlikely they will want to waste it on pot shots and some randoms running between cover. the closest stop gap they would have would be to have a jeep with a mounted 50. or a sniper carrying a 50. tail a unit, even then they would have to deploy these stopgaps to where they THINK the jugg would be.
That's a lot of trouble to go through to make up for the possibility of maybe running into them. Even at which point it would be advisable to simply run away. RPG's might help, but you'd better fucking hit your mark, because your only going to have a couple rounds at any given time, especially in combat. Still, at that point it would be the same issue with the rocket man as with the sniper, he wouldn't want to waste his limited munition for a chance of MAYBE hitting the guy.
All of that, on top of the fact that such a unit would be used in special scenarios, those most likely involving a protection detail or trying to undo a stalemate, either that or close quarters urban combat, which AT would be uncommon as they would only be expecting armored vehicles, which is what they would use the AT for anyways. Hitting a man sized target with a rifle is hard at 100m in combat, try using a rocket launcher while standing still and only getting one shot for that same target. Seems a bit unreasonable, same as shooting a man with a rocket at less than 50m-25m.
>How are they self-destructing anyways?
The weight of the already too heavy to by carried by a human armor being supported by a human that you're just zapping 220volts up their ass to make em carry?
>Inb4 we genetically modified them so they don't instantly destroy themselves :^).
Either you're retarded because you're modifying them to carry slightly more than the average human so they can carry enough armor all over to stop glorified .22LR.
Or you're retarded because you're modifying them to weigh half a ton so they have enough strength to carry armor all over that can stop .50BMG, unfortunately they are now as tall as a much heavier armored tank.
And the reason you're retarded is you are trying to mass produce Humans for war.
Need I remind you that Humans take well over a decade to get to a point where they could have the physical development (nevermind that mental, mental development is almost 2 decades) to lug around this suit.
Let's even give you the benefit of the doubt here that you also managed to modify their physical maturation, genetic modification of fish (one of the most receptive organisms to this kind of modification) we've only managed to HALF the maturation rate.
Yeah you could have two generations (assuming by age 16 people are getting strong enough to be soldiers) of your "souper souldurrs" in theory, the reality is you have just made a second human race that would be stronger and need to be isolated (I can't see how this could POSSIBLY go wrong) and a hard to replace piece of military equipment (8 years to produce, WW2 era BATTLESHIPS didn't take that long to make and can take WAY more of a beating) that is to be put right on the front lines doing the most dangerous jobs practically guaranteeing destruction.
Refer to pic.
>You gonna clear a house.
If you have a government that actually has super soldiers, do you honestly think they'll have any reservations about flattening the house?
They'll have enough money, technology, lack enough common sense, and be morally bankrupt enough that they won't care about property damage, deaths of dissident citizens, or international opinion.
You say that like the US govt hasn't blown more money on more useless shit. Hell, if you look at my above posts you may note that the suit doesn't even have to be fucking heavy, as with the development of polymers/alloys and various coatings along with other neat-o tech, the suit could easily be his weight or less, some of that shit weighs like 5lbs, for a 12x12 plate, thats ~10lbs to armor a body segment. Sure it won't be featherweight, but it at most it will double your resting weight, put that on a strong a shit guy has DENSE, not big, dense, muscles and he could easily carry his weight two times, add in an polymer skeleton that's even stronger than the armor itself and the problem of actually supporting this weight goes away, add in some motion assistance calipers to move it and he should have no problem getting around. Sure he won't be the flash on meth, but that's kind of a null point when you can take hits like the juggernaut and have shit to get you around fast anyways (jeeps, helicopters, etc)
Sure, the electrical muscle power multiplies may eventually cause his body degrade to the point of death, but keep in mind these men are not mean't to be eternal gods, but instead thick meatshields that take a long time to grind through, and in the event that he doesn't happen to get btfo, you can simply remove his body, repair the fucked up section of suit, and pass it on to the next test tube ubermensch.
Yeah, the men will take a long time to grow, but no longer than any basic infantry would, even if the supply isn't as steady. With genetic mods they could be grown in a fraction of the time, and if modified to have more powerful brains/higher iq's they could be taught more and sooner. This makes up for their lack of creation rate, although you would need to have a factory to make them regularly, but does the imperium not have chapters dedicated solely to their creation?
Of course they're going to be better in nearly every way than the common man, but they are still men . Regardless, men are not equal, despite what zerkosteinowitz says, this is clear in all things, the same as in wh40k, you have mutant serfs, and you have god-like men. The caste system would enable such a cooperation.
Even still if they didn't get along, it would merely be the next step in human evolution. You could even go so far as to genetically modify women to have bigger hips, wombs, and breasts to birth more supermen.
All of this would obviously cost much more in terms of material and sustenance, but the trade off is that you have much more capable and high quality humans who are better able to carry out their predetermined societal roles.
>inb4 quantity over quality
the imperium still made common use of guardsmen and regulars.
Why are you so afraid of giga-chad ultra men, anon?
As an addition to that and any other "what ifs", I'm going under the guise that money and ethics are irrelevant to the probability of this development. The ultimate development of this is to elevate humanity (not untermensch) to a state of ultimate being, and to ensure it's survival long into the future, and to be able to fight the inevitable battles that await in the far future.
lots of wh40k references, I wonder if there is any relevance between that universe and our reality?
Hence why AI is considered heresy.
And judging by the chemical hydrocarbon structure it's something which can be easily be programmed into DNA.
In fact UHMWPE fiber seems to be a just be an overgrown fat molecule.
If a soldier is induced to produce this fiber in a couple of layers of cells right beneath the skin, he could have built in armor that rivals anything a vehicle could carry, and light enough to move around in.
Refer to pic.
spoiler
What about trying to program PCTFE for use as a skeletal structure? Or something of similar strength?
Perhaps we could even have the bones engineered to be carbon based instead of calcium, or would denser calcium bones be stronger?
It doesn't have a high tensile strength, only compressive. That means if you drew out a long stick of it, it would be easily bent or broken. This means it couldn't serve as an anchor for muscles… Calcium crystals are better at that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-high-molecular-weight_polyethylene
>Under tensile load, UHMWPE will deform continually as long as the stress is present—an effect called creep.
The only attribute UHMWPE has over steel is abrasion resistance and lighter weight. The material is not nearly as impressive as you seem to think it is. UHMWPE is soft, almost like a PE that has been impregnated with soap. That’s why it has great impact and abrasion resistance. But it isn’t a structural material. Dimensional stability, hardness, toughness, etc don’t compare to metals in any way. And it’s not optically clear either. Its best use case is for cladding on ruggedized consumer products. If you want a real structural polymer to make machine components out of, you need glass-reinforced thermosets.
Something like rusar composite would be a structural member, because aramid fibers HMW plastics when it comes to tensile strength.
already are, with the true state of the art nuclear power. there will be disclosure of a lot of this.
a light exoskeleton that is mostly mechanical with only little powered assist and a set of above standard body armor on top of it is the closest thing to power armor for the next decade. something like halo spi armor.
if solid state batteries and polymer muscles get perfected we could see true powerarmor and small mechs
DEUS EST MACHINA!
the power armor should not be heavier than a heavily obese man. slight clown shoes cold reduce ground pressure.
the ankle is one of the easiest joints to approximate with an exoskeleton. hell, i can build an ankle structure out of a few metal parts. adding some steel cables as sinnews is easy.
there are passive exoskeletons, but no viable full body solutions yet.
adding some clutch powered breaks would be nice too.
the soldier could then have a better body armor coverage.
For heavy maintenance tasks and logistical tasks, this would be useful. It could also revolutionise the mining sector.
In terms of offensive use. Maybe not so much simply because of the limitations of the human body.
Power Armor would make you more than "man sized".
1st, your problem is a power source that is protected enough that doesn't fail in a battle but powerful enough for your "armor".
2nd, while all your metal plates might protect you against piercing bullets, the gaps between your plates won't protect against concussive blasts such as from an explosive, grenade.
So you'd need a metal (material) strong enough between the gaps in the armor to protect against that flaw.
I already tried to talk to DARPA with a very, very viable powerplant and actuation system. They are so incredibly corrupt they don't want innovations. It's just another "milk the tax money to funnel projects to our friends" department of the government.
I could give you viable power armor in six months with enough manpower and budget. Then you could decide the level of protection and speed you wanted versus weight. It ain't the stupid supercomputer-slaved money pit that DARPA claims is necessary.
People like me wait in the shadows, because the government is too phenomenally corrupt to do anything that doesn't redirect money to their buddies and owners. One day when DARPA is a real, actual research department, you will see people like me at the fore.
Until, it's just another corrupt and rotten scum bucket holding back tech, funneling it to "foreign interests" and spending vast gobs of money on stupid stuff.
DARPA is the FBI of technology. They might as well install their facility in Tel Aviv with a secondary branch in Beijing. The phenomenally worthless and money-wasting crap they come out with boggles the mind. Try checking out the website that shows where the latest government contracts went, and to whom, and for what.
We don't need deodorant condoms or automatic masturbation gloves or whatever the heck they are spewing these days.
DARPA is Deep State, one hundred percent.
You are completely wrong about the powerplant.
Do some calculations. What horsepower would be required to run a one-ton armor suit?
Unlike a one-ton car, a lot of the energy for locomotion is reciprocating energy. This being the case, like a piston engine where the piston being slowed down at the top and bottom of the stroke is actually using piston velocity to accelerate the crank, similarly, energy from a pair of running legs going back and forth, for example, can be fed back into the system. When the legs are at their maximum velocity is when they are passing each other. They then flip their acceleration vectors and begin slowing. This energy does not have to be wasted.
But, anyway, it won't take as much energy to move a one-ton suit of power armor at 40mph as it will to move a one-ton car at ITS top speed, because lower air drag, less energy to move one ton to 40mph than it takes to move a car to 120mph for example.
The power source only has to be about 135hp. I won't divulge actuation systems so a bunch of rice-gobblers can run to the patent office with it, but the power is not very great, and it will easily fit in a backpack-sized bump anywhere the design sees fit to put it, depending on whether the soldier or Marine power armor suit is going to be in a quadruped or biped configuration. Think of the gigantic 62 ton M1A1. 1500hp. How much does the engine weigh?300 pounds?
There is no problem at ALL powering these things, or actuating them. The PROBLEM is the corruption in DARPA and the US Homomilitary in general. Is anyone above first lieutenant actually in possession of a virgin anus anymore? Obama started the Pride Parade.
Nothing is more corruptible than a homosexual. Nothing.
Doable.
Expensive as fuck though. Priced the materials alone, nearly $80k. The tooling is easily 10x that. That's before you even get involved with the actual manufacturing and maintenance costs.
So figure a single suit about $1 billion. Close to a million a year to maintain it.
Power sources is the issue. If there was compact solid state megawatt lenr/zero point energy systems thennwe can talk.
Tbh the Halo MkV suits are said to cost more than entire ships/fleets to build
Training is ideal. The problem you’re discussing is more about recruitment and 10+ year, that’s technically 3 re-enlistments (standard) so, that leaves a lot of management at hand. It’s difficult to ask people to stay on if they want to honorary discharge, they did their service and commitment. So, that’s a big part of the reason the funding and RND in that direction is tailored to a smaller group.
If they have to deploy a anti tank rifle against infantry they already lost. within the close range combat of a town it may even be impossible to pull off safely. plus any country that can deploy powered armor will be using drones and other forms of threat tracking. the second there's a anti-materiel round going off it will be countered with trackingpoint equivalent auto sniping.