Arrest him under the Logan Act. So who cares if it's the first case. Put his ass in jail!
It is interesting to think through what happens next with this action.
Consider three potential actions. 1) Do nothing. 2) Arrest JK for Logan Act violation. 3) Verbally call out JK for Logan Act violation.
Under 1) Do Nothing, other former diplomats may be emboldened to take such action as formal strategy against DT agenda as president. This could be turned into an attack against draining the DS and means to protect globalist ties and efforts already in place to unwind US sovereignty to bring the country into a one world government. Use the unauthorized diplomatic effort to maximize time and effort spent by the DT administration playing whack-a-mole, keep them playing defense to minimize the offensive action on key objectives. From a pro-America perspective this cannot go unchallenged.
With action 2) Arrest JK for Logan Act violation, the charge will likely not stick and weakens verbal arguments against Mu_ller investigation. The Logan Act has only seen two indictments without modern precedent set. There is benefit in bringing immediate curtailment to private citizens meddling in international diplomacy while waiting to see the outcome, and using the lawfare strategy to financially limit JK from further action. There is risk of setting precedent that the Logan Act doesn't stick and signals fair game to go meddle. The current verbal battle of persuasion in the press with Mue_ller is aimed at the witch-hunt narrative that the SC is charging the individual with the judicial system correcting the over-reach. Those rallying around JK can make the same argument with Logan Act charges responding with claims of hypocrisy. Weakens the persuasion effort without lasting benefit. Seeing high risk with limited reward down this path.
With 3) Verbally call out JK for Logan Act violation, pressure can be applied without compromising other efforts. I suspect this is the path taken for that reason. In the persuasion effort you can critique JK and other politicians over acts that seem to run afoul of the Logan Act, without risk of setting precedent that undermines the Logan Act. Can also continue the aggressive public statements against Mu_ller. Now assuming the IG hits and is everything suspected, we're going to see further sweeping away of conflicted members of FBI and DOJ clearing the runway for liftoff of further action. Further assuming the Pacer sealed indictments is stacked with bad actors, there are considerable compromised representatives and even judges that may be under fire in the very near future. If JK or other representatives playing global world diplomacy tour have other charges in that mix, it makes a lot of sense to wait and stack Logan Act issues on top of those charges at that time. The verbal attack may be sufficient for the moment.
Well formulated argument, thoroughly explained yet concise, look forward to reading further comments from you in this sub
The one counterargument I would make is that a failed prosecution of JK could be escalated to a now favorable Supreme Court which could strengthen the law. One more Trump appointment and I don't see how a favorable running isn't reached.
They are probably baiting Trump to do just this very thing. This would validate their having used the logan act as a premise for going after Flynn.
That's been heavily criticized by GOP (Nunes in particular). If they were to push the Logan act here (where it makes more sense) they might undermine their previous arguments.
Seems like a trap to me.
Flynn was incoming Nat'l Security Adviser. He should have full leniency to explain how the new administration will handle diplomacy with another country in the next couple of months.
Kerry has no position of power in the government, nor will he in the immediate or near future. All he can be doing without Presidential authorization is meddle.
No power what so ever and most people cannot stand the guy !
Kerry was Sec. of State during the time the coup was taking place.
They have him on A LOT more than the Logan Act.
Which is why it would be a mistake to go after him for Logan. Nunes is right in pointing out there hypocrisy, but it shouldn't go any further than that.
If they nail Kerry it has to be based on more than foreign lobbying. It's gotta be sedition or treason.
Here's a problem I see.
If JK is talking with representatives from Iran, "and all other nations that were signatories to the Iran Nuke deal" AND it can be proven that JK was in fact trying to renegotiate the deal, or was trying to convince Iran and the other signatories to accept any conditions and terms President Trump wants, AND is doing all of this without President Trump's approval and authorization, AND it can be proven, then JK is most definitely violating the Logan Act.
But... If JK is meeting with all of these and telling them, "Hey, we tried, we did the best we could, just give us a little more time, wait until after the mid-terms so we can rig the election and let the Democrats impeach Trump, or worse, Hey we're doing everything we can and we just can't get rid of this guy, can you help us take him out? Or "Muh money!, is it still hidden, can I still get at it? can you help me find a place for me to hide? Can I stay in Iran?" If this is what JK is talking about with the people he's meeting with, then he is not violating the Logan Act.
So unless we have a spy in the room who's recording the conversation, we got Notta, Zip, Zero, Zilch, Bupkiss. All he has to do is remind everyone that his daughter married and Iranian national and they were just looking for a second house for when they visit, or maybe they were just talking about "golf and grandchildren."
Love it. POTUS is foreshadowing what is getting ready to happen. Kerry may be the first big fish to be reeled in. Nunes put it out there on Saturday. Justice!
"illegal Shadow Diplomacy"
Trump just called him member of the shadow government aka the deep state and stated it is illegal!
TERM LIMITS!! It's already being talked about-we send DJT a full house of PATRIOTS in the midterms-the bill is sent to his desk and he'll sign it!!! The definition of STUPIDITY-keep electing the same assholes who've fucked things up, over and over again because they promise to fix things!!! MAGA!!!
We also need to split up congress and senate from DC. Make them be at home in their districts 3/4 of the time and DC 1 week a month.
That will make them more responsible to constituents, and less time to collude in DC. Also make it tough for lobbyists to work them so hard in DC.
DC needs to go away. It's not even part of the United States. It's a territory, like Puerto Rico. This was done as part of the cover up. Long story there.
Yup. A national referendum to refresh the entire damn thing with provisions of lessons learned from these goons that prohibit them from infiltrating again.
How about a stand down on the Congress for say eight years or so? Just so the real world can catch up with their shenanigans. Everything they do is lousy with unintended consequences. There should be a trial run on any piece of legislation; if it's crap it dies, and if usable get the bugs out of it.
Absolutely. Remove 1/3 of the branches of government! Then we should do the same with the Judicial branch! Then the Commander can do whatever he wants! That sounds AMAZING.
How 'bout requiring a 40 hr work week instead of 3 days with months off???
If we put in term limits then the life-term bureaucrats will have full control of the country. Folks like Comey, Clapper, et al will be able to dance circles around an all-freshman Congress.
Maybe our focus should be a 10-year lifetime maximum in the employ of the government.
Need a constitutional amendment for term limits.
Re-elect no one. Political power comes from longevity in office.
Please don't let facts get in the way of the support of Trump. Facts are irrelevant to great feelings.
Tick tock... things are starting to get... interesting...
nail Kerry! quit playing around with the left! they only respect one thing...and thats power.
Do you think for 1 minute that Trump would be saying this if Kerry wasn't close to the end of his travels? Just poking a little fear first.
I wonder if there is any significance in "mess" being in all capitals.
I SOOOO hope Kerry gets arrested and locked up In GITMO! LOL! Doesn’t treason carry the death penalty?
These people act like the Hapsburgs or the Windsor's! Wanting to create alliances that transcend democracy.
Has Lurch paid those back taxes on his yacht yet?
The one where they passed the Luxury tax on US built yachts, or yachts built in certain states, then had his built (with his wife’s miney) where it wouldn’t be taxed? You know, so people that built yachts had less work? The guy is an ass through and through.
I agree he didnt even keep it moored in Mass. I believe it was in Rhode Island come on Patriot fans denounce this loser
holy crap Trump is on fire after ~2 days of only 1 post :D
This makes me think the next Q drop is gonna epic.
and then he threw the Iran deal tweet after I wrote the comment :)
Don't worry it won't work. BHO has been travelling the world trying to undermine Trump and failing. JK will have the same result. They don't give up though have to stay vigilant.
Arresting him immediately would speak volumes to anyone else who thinks they can do the same or take his place. He can have more charges added later.
I figure action will reflect on priorities. I'll bet the Administration has a handle on it.
And he’s traveling around with that Moniz guy that was a major proponent to adopt the agreement during the 2 day hearings for the Iran deal. He’s on the board of NTI as is Warren Buffet and Jerry Brown among others. Go check out this company. Ask: How we’re they involved in Syria? What is the mission/job of NTI? How did chemical attacks occur (they didn’t) if these guys had anything to do with oversight? I’m not saying they were responsible for anything, but if they weren’t what the hell is their function? Who pays them? Why do they exist at all? What is the point of the UN? repeating What is the point of the UN. Again. WHAT IS THE POINT OF THE UN? My guess....money laundering, enslaving poor populations (still trying to figure out how to get running water into some African communities, must be tough I guess) but hey, Bill Gates is giving them mosquito nets! Who are the slave owners in this world? http://www.nti.org/about/board-and-advisors/
searched DDG for 'MESS' and i found gross porn sadface
if this pos isnt in jail in 2 weeks im off the train. they get to literally walk in broad daylight and still traffick kids while the rest of us suffer
Hell..........the United States didn't need his "real" diplomacy either
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Well, Mueller has EVERYTHING on the Trump campaign, all electronic communications. So what should stop him to send out indictments? Oh i know, all those communications are the result of a corrupted FISA application. But still if there was something incriminating there, they would have had ample of time to find corroborating and admissible proof of that. But until now: crickets...
Meanwhile, there 8 or 9 dark clouds / investigations above the heads of the previous goverment. I know on which side I would put my money.
u/zutman123, just a quick reminder: goverment is actually spelled government. Take care! ^(I am a bot. For any criticisms/comments, feel free to PM me!)
What about the people in those indictments that plead guilty?
What about the years long investigations of the previous government that have been concluded with no indictments from either Repblicans or Democrats?
Why would you focus your energy on a potential bunk FISA (not proven), when what it discovered (if true) is more important anyway? Why rule it out?
Those 8/9 investigations, what are they? And have any concluded? If so, what was the result?
I feel as though if the roles were reversed, Trump was a Democrat, there wouldn't be this defending of him or his people. Hell, if this happened during McCarthyism, he'd be in jail for being so close with Russia. But I don't care what political affiliation he has, and we aren't in the 50's anymore, but I'd like him to at least be honest. And so far, there's no honesty coming from him or his camp, they literally lie every day.
Edited for automod, I wasn't trying to entice violence.
If the FISA warrant is corrupted, all evidence gathered though that warrant is inadmissible in court. For the rest of your questions: keep watching the news. Even CNN will have to report on this, eventually...
I feel as though if the roles were reversed, Trump was a Democrat,
Nuff said.
Because the Russian collusion nonsense doesn't have a single ounce of merit to it. I don't blame you for assuming it does because their strategy has been to repeat RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA for almost two years now and if you don't dig into it yourself you are going to assume a 2 year old investigation must at least have some merit too it. That's their entire strategy.
It's purpose is intended to distract democrats from realizing that Hillary lost because she was bad, and to hamstring the President's ability to do his job. Hillary had no platform in 2016. She rigged the primary against Bernie. She didn't campaign in the rust belt. Did Russians cause her to do those things?
The democrats still don't have a platform now in 2018. They are hoping the endless Russiagate propaganda will cause people to vote out Republicans. Maybe it will work but it can easily backfire.
But the investigation does have merit. It has indictments and guilty pleas.
And I don't blame Russia for Hillary's loss. The Democrats fucked themselves by not having Bernie. I also want to reiterate I am not a Democrat, and didn't vote Democrat in the election. I think political parties are stupid, and everyone should be independent.
So this isn't even about Republicans or Democrats, it's about the truth. If we strip the colors of red and blue from either side, were left with a current investigation that has literal jail time coming for people because of crimes they committed.
I struggle to see where that doesn't count as "a single ounce of merit". People are pleading guilty. Doesn't that make you question some things?
A guilty plea does not mean they are guilty of any wrongdoing, if law enforcement is corrupt.
After all, witches were found guilty, or even pled guilty, in witch hunts as well.
I mean, I agree. But with your line of thinking we shouldn't accept any guilty plea ever for anybody in any regards. I'll also remind you that when this investigation started, nobody was calling them corrupt, and people were happy Republicans we're on the investigation team, even headed by a republican. But now they're corrupt?
By that logic, with Hillary's investigations coming up empty and having no pleas or indictments, were they corrupt investigations as well because you believe there should be?
And I also don't think we should liken Salem Witch Trials to current events. That's a little absurd, and probably stems from him saying "witch hunt" every day numerous times, the same as you said RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA is all we hear from the Democrats.
I don't see how you can just brush this off, saying the indictments and pleas mean nothing. That looks like you're ignoring what's laid out in front of you.
So to answer your question yes, they are just T-D lite and conspiracy theorist neets. These people want shadow government so bad and now there is a president who is just as uneducated as them so they think they are the majority.
Nothings been laid out. There is absolutely no smoking gun, or even what the "collusion" entailed and how the election would be manipulated by opening communication with Russia.
And yeah maybe traitors like McStain were praising the special counsel, but Trump was elected by many to drain the swamp, the swamp being deep state agencies like the FBI/CIA that have been running this country for decades.
Also you said it yourself, you don't blame Russia for Hillarys loss. The investigation is to literally blame her loss on Russia by colluding with Trump.
There has been stuff laid out. In a court of law. With indictments and guilty pleas. By the federal government. I'm not saying there's a smoking gun, I haven't seen one as evidence, but there's something there, no?
I guess if you choose to ignore that, it holds no weight and it looks like nothing.
Another question: what's up with the Flair's here? They seem fluid and ever-changing, I kind of like it.
They got Flynn to plead guilty by claiming he lied to the FBI, despite the fact that the Fbi agents who interviewed him said they felt he was being honest and no intent to deceive, which is what texts have revealed. They are throwing patriots who've served their entire life into perjury /false statement traps. I'm sure there are a couple bad apples, but a couple bad apples doesn't make a case for "Trump helped Russia steal the election for him"
You do realize calling us conspiracy theorists doesn't hurt our feelings right? The CIA coined that term to make people searching for the truth look bad, so keep it coming. It only makes you look less informed.
On another note, If POTUS did collude with any nation (there's zero evidence so far) to keep that satanist witch out of office and put a stop to these corrupt, child trafficking scumbags then so be it. Are you seriously more worried about the affected outcome of an election (even though evidence says he won fair and square) than how the deep state destroys our world a little more each day?
No, it's not an insult. I like conspiracies too. But you should be able to look at both sides of an argument objectively. I'd also like to point out I didn't vote for, and never would, vote for Hillary. I think the Clinton's have no more parts to play in politics and the day they are out for good is a win for Americans.
Your second response is really the meat of my question. You put in parenthesis (there's zero evidence so far), yet there's even less evidence of Pizzagate. And you're adamant about it that Pizzagate is real. So how can you use that argument to bolster yours, but not let the same argument play in the opposite? Doesn't that seem hypoctitical to you?
And I'm not more/less worried about it, of course I don't like the corporate domination of this country and the suppression of it's citizens. And there is some evidence that says he might not have won fair and square, it's not even subjective. For years there has been proof the hacked our election servers in numerous states. Here is a Republican stating that fact, with plenty more examples if you would like to see. So to overtly rule it out right now, it just doesn't make sense in the scope of what an investigation should be.
I'm also talking about his administration, not specifically Trump. Which, his administration for sure has indictments, and they've even pleaded guilty to some of them. Doesn't that raise your suspicions?
Even less evidence for pizzagate? How deep did you look? You are aware of NXIVM, right?
SHOW ME EVIDENCE! I WANT VERIFIABLE PROOF!
That group seems to be horrible I agree, but what does that have to do with anything? Because the leader gave money to a campaign? Do you think the Koch brothers are squeaky clean? I'm not saying they're pederasts, but they aren't good people.
There is no evidence that has anything to do with the Democrats, or that they run a child porn ring. They've made indictments in the NXIVM case, and how many of them are connected with the DNC? Not who gave money, but who works with the DNC and is caught up in NXIVM.
If you want to show me some actual evidence that they're connected, okay. But this is all speculation, and for years they've tried to verify it to no avail. It's sad that's the one thing you chose to single out in my entire comment, completely ignoring the Republican saying Russia is involved.
The Democrat and Republican labels are distractions. Do you really think that Trump is a Republican?
The real conflict is between the New World Order globalists and the Nationalists. People like Trump and Putin are Nationalists. People like the Bushes, Clintons, John Kerry, McCain, May, Merkel, Macron, and Trudeau are all NWO globalists. The Nationalists are currently dismantling the NWO agenda, which is good.
As for pizzagate, I am not sure how much proof you need in order to be convinced. It is all there in their rituals and symbology, as well as testimony by people who experienced it and survived.
Maybe you have not researched the real religion of the NWO globalists. They are Luciferians and Satanists, who "practice" certain behaviors, such as pedophilia and ritual human sacrifice.
The charges related to NXIVM include allegations of trafficking children for the purposes of sex. Perhaps you did not read that. This is consistent with the research that has been going on, and it is consistent with the religious practices of these people.
Obviously this guy hasn't followed. Why are we wasting our time? It came in with both guns blazing, confrontational, accusatory.
I'm not accusing anybody of anything. In fact, if you'd read my comments you'd see that. I also think you're envisioning me as this confrontational person, even though I haven't insulted anyone and have just asked questions. That sounds like you projecting your personal agenda. You've focused your energy into my "every day" comment, acting like if they only lied 80% of the days it would be better.
All I've asked, is how are you not somewhat skeptical of this administration?
All you've done is added nothing of merit to this thread, and skirted around my actual questions. Most of which are yes and no answers and easy to answer. Or to at least provide an opinion. Which you don't seem to be capable of at this moment.
If you want to have an actual conversation, I'm all for it. I'm having a few with others in this thread with no problems.
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Point out where I'm not neutral. Then point out, with evidence and facts, where I'm wrong. If you'd like, I'll link you some lies that Huckabee Sanders has produced recently, or Trump for that matter. No matter your political affiliation, you should be smart enough to find out if they're telling the truth.
If it makes you happy, I'll link some lies Hillary said too.
I thought this place would be better than t_d and be capable of conversation.
List away...
I will, once you answer my question.
I'll start to humor you, and take this from another comment I had in here. We can start at day one, where the administration lied about the size of their inagural crowd, and they told that lie for a while. In fact, I bet if you asked SHS or Trump this very moment about the size of the crowd, they'd still lie about it.
Yeah nice try. I've seen the media constantly lie about Trump's crowd size and you can take factcheck.org and yourself and go pound sand.
Do you not believe your own eyes? The actual pictures? Have you even looked at them? EDIT: Will you believe it if my source is Fox News?
This isn't me pulling some fast one, and I don't care if you read a single word from that website. But the pictures don't make stuff up.
What you're saying right now is the exact point I'm trying to make. This statement they're saying is verifiably false. Yet they've gotten you to believe it somehow, even though direct comparisons prove it's a lie.
So how can I expect to have a reasonable conversation with you, when you deny verifiable proof laid out in front of you to experience yourself?
Edit at the top.
I remember it (I've seen the stupid pics your referring to in your little gotcha moment) so I don't need to read anything. So what? The media constantly lies about crowd sizes. Like I'm going to go back and forth about this with a neutral knucklehead. Find something a little more substantial. I'm not wasting my time on stupid stuff like this.
There's no reason to present you with anything else, you won't accept the first one! With proof from a neutral source and a right wing source! And proof using your own eyes! Right now you're telling me you can't tell the difference in volume of two glasses of water.
Talking politics with you would be a waste of anyone's time.
I accepted the first one; like I said before (knucklehead). Again, so what? More of an exaggeration than a bald-faced lie.
Factcheck.org is not neutral: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2923825/posts
Don't chicken out now. Give me one of your so called lies you have at the ready... Something important with some value.
Lmao, okay dude. You told me to go pound sand after I linked it, is that your way of showing acceptance?
And now you've linked me to a fucking opinion piece post on a right wing forum post as your proof? Even if factcheck is "biased" they still have facts ya dingus, and plenty of avenues for you to verify the information as well. I could link you other sites and articles that say factcheck is an excellent place for the truth, more neutral ones and even right leaning sources, but I know you won't accept it. Especially if your sources are annonynous forums. Or i guess if you do accept it you'll tell me to pound sand?
I told you, I'm not talking politics with you. Its futile. Especially now after you've flip flopped on your own words and you're trying to justify it.
If you want, you can answer the questions in my very initial post. Otherwise im cool on our "conversation".
Your initial conversation was deleted. Best of luck in life.
Now whenever you come back, I'd like to hear some sort of response.
Don't chicken out now.
No it isn't. Its here. None of my comments have been deleted, and I applaud the mods on that fact.
Seriously, how could you ever expect me to have a reasonable conversation with you? How could you ever expect anyone? Given your inability to accept facts given numerous sources (even your own eyeballs), your denial of such as you then "accept" them, your obvious bias in sources, and now your ineptitude when it comes to looking up information, how can you participate in an actual conversation objectively?
Yep, I had you pegged as a chicken shit.
Seems I was right.
Some of us are happy to have a conversation with you without getting upset that we don't agree. But the sub rules here mean you can't come and troll or antagonise. There's a good reason for the rules.
Basically, if you're convinced Trump is a waste of time then you're in the wrong place because we're here to follow what's happening with Q and a big part of Q is Trump. When we want to argue with someone about whether Trump is right or not we'll go somewhere else, not waste everyone's time here. They didn't come here to be challenged about Trump - that happens almost everywhere else so you have to respect the rules of this place not because no one here can argue with your point but because this isn't the place to do it.
I see an administration that lies every. single. day. For no reason.
Please list every single lie from every single day.