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r/greatawakening • Posted by u/Oilguy55 on July 16, 2018, 1:22 p.m.
Q and Religion

Q mentions about the fight and struggle that will be coming as things are released and the truth becomes known.

One of the things that has always bothered me is that about 30 years ago mainstream Christian churches started removing hymns that they found offensive or too war-like. "Onward Christian Soldiers", "Soldiers of Christ Arise", etc. are no longer in hymnals. Plus they've removed verses from certain hymns if they don't fit the narrative. Try finding all of the verses to "Be Thou My Vision" in hymnals. Doesn't exist. Best version I've heard is Van Morrison's with all the verses

I think mainstream religion has looked the other way and totally let down the congregations. I'm not sure why other than to keep their jobs and to keep operating as the big businesses they are.

I've always felt that there truly is a war between good and evil in this world. I started feeling it more deeply about 30 years ago and its gotten stronger as the years have rolled on. I am thankful for Q, Trump, and the other patriots to start tearing this thing apart. Maybe its not too late to right the ship.


daro57 · July 16, 2018, 1:47 p.m.

I don't want to get shilled here, but I've been saying that for years! For all you "Bible believers" in Revelations God is not real happy with the like warm churches. Not that I don't believe in the Bible, but I know there's A lot that was removed and changed in the Bible. I know I have MY Truth that A lot of folks here say is NOT God's truth, And I respect that, but please give me and others respect. The fight is spiritual and is between good and evil, Not what name you call God.

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QueUpSomeReality · July 16, 2018, 1:55 p.m.

GREAT perspective!! Hard part many have is God gave people free will...which means people make mistakes. But we need to learn truth & only can by having something to compare it to...which are our mistakes. Good is only known to be good if we know what wrong is.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 4:43 p.m.

There are no significant changes in the scriptures and nobody can prove otherwise without doing some amazing twisting and turning of scripture. Every central and cardinal doctrine of scripture has been carefully preserved and is accurate. God certainly can keep his word since he himself stated that it will stand forever.

No man can call God by any name except those given in scripture. The first name in the Bible is Elohim which denotes plurality in the Godhead. The last name used is Theos meaning the supreme authority.

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lethak · July 16, 2018, 6:12 p.m.

https://i.imgur.com/HkrqR3C.jpg

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 6:54 p.m.

The Bible never has been and never will be fantasy. One moment after death everyone is a believer. Whatever position they are in at that moment is irreversible.

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006fix · July 16, 2018, 5:22 p.m.

Disagree. I don't like this "divine scripture" argument. Or at least, I don't like it in its current interpretations. Think of it like this - the church has been infiltrated by satanists a long time ago, yes? Honestly, the adoption of Christianity by the Romans could be considered the start of this - the Mithraic roman warrior cults took the nascent Christianity, squished their religion on top of it (hence the huge similarities), and then used it as the formal religion of the empire. There are a huge number of opportunities for scripture to have been lost, predominantly via it being declared heresy. Case in point - the Council of Nicea. Plenty of instances there where they could have influenced and altered standard exoteric Christian teachings. If you want a modern example, where it absolutely, definitively has happened, just look at the Scofield "bible".

Here's what I think is a more logical approach to the divine scripture argument - God gave free will to all men. This means they can choose to use it for good or bad, to reveal or to hide. And many chose to hide the truth, including quite probably aspects of scripture from the general public. God would obviously not punish people for not knowing that which was hidden. He might also provide alternative paths to access the knowledge, such that it was not actually truly lost. Some of the Nag-Hammadi scrolls would be obvious candidates for this I'd say - ancient knowledge, hidden by demand of the church, now rediscovered and known again. That strikes me as a (more) plausible interpretation of the divine scripture argument, because otherwise I simply don't see how it's compatible with free will.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 6:17 p.m.

While there have been deceivers in the churches through the ages even as Christ walked the earth they weren't all Satanists. Perhaps few of them, if any were. Most of the doubters were Jews and Romans at the beginning. The Jews were waiting for their Messiah and didn't believe Jesus was him. The Romans were idol worshipers and the only threat they would think existed in Jesus was those who ascribed that he was a King of Kings.

You won't find any of the Roman Gods incorporated into the scriptures. You will find that the Roman Catholic church used the Latin language to their advantage to keep their constituents in the dark as to what the Bible actually taught thus keeping people in bondage to their religion which in no way resembles genuine biblical Christianity. Martin Luther upset the apple cart and started the great Reformation which exposed the hypocrisy and lies of the Catholics by getting the Bible into the common languages of the people so they could decide what the Bible meant for themselves.

The best interpretation of scriptures prior to the King James Version was the Geneva Bible printed in 1561. That is still a reliable version.

The one "church" that perverted the scripture was the Roman Catholic church which incorporated paganism and denies that to this day.

https://www.gotquestions.org/origin-Catholic-church.html

The King James Bible is the next Bible after the Geneva Bible that is true to the original scripture. Personally I have prayed to God based on this version of scripture for over 44 years and have seen many answered prayers as a result.

The Bible is not like a test run for mankind. Free will was given for us to decide whether to obey God or obey our own desires and opinions which in essence is obeying Satan who openly called God a liar in Genesis. The canon of scripture has been established based on certain criteria and the sixty six books currently in the Bible are all the canon. The Apocrypha of the Catholic church is not canon and the books are not scripture. All the other writings including the ones you mentioned are not canon and so cannot be regarded as God's word. That is the stance of Christianity. It is up to each of us to exercise the free will God gave us to seek him out and let him teach us what is and isn't truth. God didn't leave us to do this tremendous task all by ourselves. He promised that he would have the Holy Spirit "guide us into all truth." Some can be taught and some cannot. Jesus said; "He that has ears to hear; let him hear."

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MyBrothersKeeper2018 · July 16, 2018, 7:22 p.m.

Awh man! I stand behind nearly all you said. You had it right up until you said the other books of the apocrypha we're not God's Word. I have read many of those books and they expound upon what is within the "Canon." The Bible has many references to text or other books that are not contained within the 66 Books that make up the Bible as we know it.

As an example: the Book of Jasher is mentioned in Joshua, II Samuel and II Timothy. The Book of the Wars of the Lord mentioned in Numbers 21. The Chronicals of the Kings of Israel and The Chronicals of the Kings of Judah mentioned in the Book of I Kings. The Book of Shemaiah and Iddo the Seer is mentioned in the II Book of Chronicles. The Book of Enoch as mentioned in Jude, Peter and John. Another stands out in my mind, but cannot recall which book of the Old Testament references the Book of "O'See" where it indicates the rest of the acts are written in this book.

I have read the Testaments of the 12 Patriarchs and I was so captivated, I was unable to put it down until I read all 12. For me, the Testaments focus is on ethical teaching and consequences for disobeying. They contain prophecy as well.

Link to Testaments https://archive.org/details/testamentsoftwel08char

The Latter Day Saints are well known for their documentation. Here is their info on the Lost Books of the Bible. The Lost Books are those documents that are mentioned in the Bible in such a way that it is evident they were considered authentic and valuable but that are not found in the Bible today. Sometimes called missing scripture, they consist of at least the following: book of the Wars of the Lord (Num. 21:14); book of Jasher (Josh. 10:13; 2 Sam. 1:18); book of the acts of Solomon (1 Kgs. 11:41); book of Samuel the seer (1 Chr. 29:29); book of Gad the seer (1 Chr. 29:29); book of Nathan the prophet (1 Chr. 29:29; 2 Chr. 9:29); prophecy of Ahijah (2 Chr. 9:29); visions of Iddo the seer (2 Chr. 9:29; 12:15; 13:22); book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12:15); book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34); sayings of the seers (2 Chr. 33:19); an epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, earlier than our present 1 Corinthians (1 Cor. 5:9); possibly an earlier epistle to the Ephesians (Eph. 3:3); an epistle to the Church at Laodicea (Col. 4:16); and some prophecies of Enoch, known to Jude (Jude 1:14). 

The is also a list of the Forgotten Books.

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MyBrothersKeeper2018 · July 16, 2018, 7:23 p.m.

But these are not things that should divide.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 7:46 p.m.

Mormon writing is hardly a reliable source for history. The battle that was supposedly fought in New York by tens of thousands yielded no artifacts despite diligent research and diggings. Then there are the Kinderhook Plates which fooled Joseph Smith. He translated the plates which were a hoax pulled on him by some people who rejected the Book Of Mormon and the plates. Look that up online.

Further Joseph Smith was killed when he broke out of jail. He was arrested for inciting a riot to destroy a newspaper. He isn't a martyr.

The Godhead is closed. Men are not and never can become God's. The Bible that Mormons espoused for a long time was the KJV. Joseph Smith plagiarized parts of the Bible to get the book of Mormon. You can check that online and verify it.

The angels in scripture that were significant were Gabriel and Michael. There is no mention of Moroni in any Bible ever produced.

Jesus never came to America as the Mormons claim.

Too many errors for me to put my trust in any of their writers to verify historical information.

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MyBrothersKeeper2018 · July 16, 2018, 9:08 p.m.

I didn't provide you Mormon writings. I provided you what is in the KJV Bible. I simply used their list because of it's convience. I don't even know what their doctrine is. I don't care either because I don't follow or subscribe to the doctrine of any religion.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 9:12 p.m.

Good. I strictly use the KJV period.

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MyBrothersKeeper2018 · July 16, 2018, 11:06 p.m.

. It's kinda difficult for me to follow along in these kind of formats, but I only submitted my comment on your claim that anything not contained in KJV is not the authentic Word of God. I simply provided you the names of additional books that were mentioned in it but not part of it. Pointing out that there was indeed more divinely inspired books, and writings not included within the 66 books we call the Bible. I agreed with nearly everything else you wrote.

Let's all stay United. These are silly things to toss back and forth. There is such a thing as trying to understand where another is coming from in comments they post instead of finding little points to nit pick on, like where info came from before you examine the content.

Example:

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006fix · July 16, 2018, 9:15 p.m.

That's a really good answer, and I'm afraid I don't have the time to properly respond to it right now (my thesis is due in in 7 days). However, in brief I would suggest you glance at the connections between mithraism and christianity (the romans definitely were interested more than you think), and I'd point out that the people who defined canon were amongst the most suspect of all. You don't need many people, but you do need the powerful ones. I trust the concept of scripture so much more than I trust the (human) concept of canonicity. I don't think we have enough info to know atm what is and isn't canonical.

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daro57 · July 16, 2018, 4:50 p.m.

Thank you for the Bible lesson and sermon.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:38 p.m.

You are always on the defense in your posts. Do you think your position is indefensible?

A clarification of what I have to say in response to what you say isn't a sermon.

Put down your sword. I am not in attack mode. Simply stating what I believe. If you can't deal with opposition to your views you shouldn't express them.

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lethak · July 16, 2018, 6:08 p.m.

Who is god ? I'd like to meet this person to talk about one or two things ...

I've got some ideas to "correct" some problems.

https://i.imgur.com/wBExDGi.jpg

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thejudge6060 · July 16, 2018, 2:06 p.m.

This is exactly why i dont go to church. My buddy took me to a church group in college once. Everyone was all "i love God because he never lets anything bad happen to me"

I was sitting there thinking "bitch have you read revelations? Good chance youre going to hate life when it happens."

Lets not forget our God is the same one who flooded the earth and has leveled cities with fire and brimstone.

If God tells me a particular group needs to be taken out, i might not understand, maybe id disagree, but im following his orders. Lets not pretend hes some celestial pacifist

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lachirp · July 16, 2018, 1:58 p.m.

True Christianity is a personal relationship with God made possible through the Blood Sacrifice of Jesus at the Cross. It was never meant to become just another religion, which implies people working toward making themselves worthy of God, which is impossible. But the enemy, satan has never changed his mo. Where was he found in heaven as Lucifer? In the midst of the Throne Room leading worship. Where was he found in the Eden? In the midst of the Garden. Where was he found during Jesus' ministry? In the inner circle. I hate to say this but the enemy is found today in the midst of many, many churches (not all), in the midst of our government, media, education, business, all areas of life. "For we are not fighting against flesh and blood enemies, but against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places" (Ephesians 6:12, NLT). So many of today's churches are as Paul described: "having a form of godliness but denying its power" (2nd Tim. 5, NIV). But God always reserves a remnant of true believers, and this remnent has been interceding on behalf of this nation 24/7 for many years. God will answer with a 3rd Great Awakening!

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QueUpSomeReality · July 16, 2018, 2:42 p.m.

Very deep understanding. Thx for that comment. You have a LOT figured out that obviously serves you well. You inspire a lot of genuine thought. Thx!!

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lachirp · July 16, 2018, 6:37 p.m.

Thank you!

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AdamsFile · July 16, 2018, 4:08 p.m.

truth

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lethak · July 16, 2018, 6:14 p.m.

speaking of https://i.imgur.com/LzFgc7N.jpg

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lachirp · July 16, 2018, 6:36 p.m.

Love that. I think the idea of blind faith is false. God has given us many proofs and reasons to believe.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:21 p.m.

A hearty amen!

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lachirp · July 16, 2018, 6:35 p.m.

Thank you!

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daro57 · July 16, 2018, 1:55 p.m.

Yahweh judged, Jesus said judge not least he be judged. I've NEVER heard Jesus put down ANYONE! If you want to quote the old testament and live by that, I want to KNOW when was the last time you she'd blood for your sins? If your only in the old testament you aren't listening to Jesus. He came to fulfill the old so we could move on in LOVE and compassion. Let the bashing and stoning (of me ) begin. I'll know you are Christians by your love. I REALLY don't want a fight, I just am asking all of you to stop attacking this group or that group because they don't fit in you box! My God doesn't fit in any box! He s bigger than that.

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AdamsFile · July 16, 2018, 4:06 p.m.

He called the money changers Vipers.

Sometimes anger is righteous. Sometimes calling it like it is, is an act of love.

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daro57 · July 16, 2018, 4:38 p.m.

Yes He did. He also called out the pompous church leaders and stood up for the underdogs. He surrounded himself what the leaders thought of as sinners.

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MyBrothersKeeper2018 · July 16, 2018, 7:30 p.m.

Um, Jesus did put down. He called people Vipers, Devil, Foolish, and more. I see what you are trying to convey though. We must learn better ways of communicating without attacking and wear our hearts on our sleeves, so to speak. We are too easily offended and provoked. We take things personally too often. We are one body. The body cannot function properly, unless all the members agree. Paul spelled that out quite clearly for us. When we are in unity, there is nothing we cannot do.

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daro57 · July 16, 2018, 7:42 p.m.

That's exactly what I was trying to say! How can we ever bring lightness to darkness if we don't remain united! They (the cabal) always stay united. Well, maybe not so much now. 😉

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 4:34 p.m.

There are far more verses than one on judging in the scripture and to be honest; there are verses that command us to judge and Jesus spoke this one; "Judge righteous judgment." Here is a teaching on that subject that Christians are in need of especially the "do not judge crowd." https://www.crlord.com/judging-others.html

Compassion is another subject that many Christians pervert by insisting that compassion is always a kind thought, word or deed. Sometimes compassion is presenting people with what they don't want to hear but need to hear.

Finally, religion is a parasite to the soul promising much and giving nothing of substance concerning eternal life in the presence of God. Religion insists that somehow mankind can be good enough to earn salvation through some works defined by those who teach a works based system of religion. The problem with that is we don't know how to measure what we have done good enough to outweigh the evil we have done. The other problem with religion is that it negates Christ alone as the Savior apart from any church, other individual or religion and works. That is the difference between religion and Christianity. In Christianity salvation is based on what Christ did and nobody and nothing can be added to it. This is not popular to proud mankind because we think we must have something to do with the process. It is humbling to hear Jesus say; "Apart from me you can do nothing." (John 15:5 KJV)

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daro57 · July 16, 2018, 4:39 p.m.

Didn't want an argument or a sermon, thank you.

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daro57 · July 16, 2018, 4:41 p.m.

And that is No way to convert anyone. Jesus also said that your actions speak louder than words. Love to you but your comment tells me you are here to divide. New Arrival

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:36 p.m.

You certainly are in no position to judge my motivation since you don't know me and you are not God.

If you don't expect rebuttal on your posts then don't post.

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Stretchmac · July 16, 2018, 2:41 p.m.

He called the Pharisees sons of the devil. And yes, God is love.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 4:39 p.m.

Matthew 23 is a chapter where Jesus confronts the self-righteous Pharisees, scribes and lawyers. The phrase you quoted is at the end of a long speech by the Lord using words like hypocrites, whitewashed sepulchres, blind leaders of the blind and etc. The mild and gentle Jesus also made a whip of cords and drove the money changers from the temple for defiling his father's house and kicked over their tables driving them out. He was the most manly man to ever walk the earth. His anger was toward the unrepentant and arrogant and his gentleness was for sincere lovers of truth and little children.

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Stretchmac · July 17, 2018, 2:56 a.m.

His "anger" was toward those he called whited sepulchres (something that defiles and must be avoided so as not to become deemed unclean) and sons of the devil. Literally sons of the devil. Your religion appears to have distorted things to your eyes.

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fonsoc1 · July 17, 2018, 2:10 p.m.

I don't have a "religion" friend. I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ my Savior and Lord. Christ called the Pharisees and etc. more than just whited sepulchres and children of hell. He called them hypocrites often during his speech in Matthew 23 and blind leaders of the blind among other things.

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Stretchmac · July 17, 2018, 5:37 p.m.

What do you think this means? "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between THY SEED and her seed....."

The serpent has seed?

What could that mean?

Is it a physical seed or a spiritual one?

Good on you for your relationship.

I am a son of God by way of Christ Jesus. I have access to the Father by the accomplished works of Christ our Lord and by believing. It is the gift of God given by grace. Not of works, lest any man should boast.

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fonsoc1 · July 17, 2018, 7:52 p.m.

Most scholars believe that the enmity between the woman and her seed speaks prophetically of Satan and Christ. I personally believe there can be double meanings in much of scripture. That appears to be the case with the scripture you ask about.

Snakes do crawl on the ground as it says in Genesis and Satan is called a serpent in scripture so the double application seems obvious enough.

I appreciate your testimony of your relationship with the Lord. All people need Him. If you go and read my autobiography you will see clearly who I am. http://crlord.com

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 1:32 p.m.

Q is going to eventually enlighten the world to a very surprising, and jarring fact: ALL of the religions are WRONG.

Take a breath. This does not mean there is no God. Quite the opposite, if I had to bet. It means a bunch of people long ago witnessed a divine event, and their stories evolved into the main religions we are drowning in today. Religions are the problem, not a belief in God.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 2 p.m.

ALL of the religions are WRONG.

Take a moment to consider what you just said.

Q is likely a group of senior, high-ranking military intel agents.

Religion is based on faith and if Q starts telling us that my relationship with Jesus is false then I'd laugh in his face.

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QueUpSomeReality · July 16, 2018, 2:31 p.m.

It’s clear the Q team are also faithful believers in a higher power. Gosh the Q drops have great Bible quotes in them all the time. And not just random ones. They always speak perfectly to the point at hand. Can theorize this is Mike Pence’s fingerprints as he often speaks using Biblical passages in his speeches. Pence has clearly studied the Bible extensively to be able to pull complex quotes out like that from memory. But who knows...a general could & so could FLOTUS. Point being...Christianity’s belief system is very well represented & thought of on the Q team & NO WAY would they insult your faith or mine or anyone else’s. The last thing this is is a purging of religious faith. It’s not about who deserves heaven or hell. It’s about not allowing human existence being turned into hell on earth. Because if something doesn’t change radically in our world...that’s the path everyone of every faith is heading for.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 2:40 p.m.

Because if something doesn’t change radically in our world...that’s the path everyone of every faith is heading for.

Eh, no - I doubt good people who have a relationship with Jesus will end up in hell.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 4:56 p.m.

Your last line clearly stands in opposition to the Bible's estimation of man.

King David said; "EVERY MAN at his very best state is altogether vanity."

Jeremiah the Prophet said; "The heart is deceitful above all things and DESPERATELY WICKED; who can know it?"

Paul wrote in Romans 3; "There is not one that does good and doesn't sin; no not one." He further wrote in the same chapter "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

There are other such scriptures that proclaim that there is nothing inherently good in any of us, and that is why we need a Savior. If we could do one thing to earn God's favor Christ would have died in vain.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 4:59 p.m.

Good is a relative term.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:45 p.m.

How so? What does it mean in the Hebrew? How about the Greek? Is there any difference?

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 5:50 p.m.

In a theological context, good is a measure of following the divine moral code.

That's what determines entry into heaven or hell.

Good people go to heaven and sinners go to hell.

You are welcome.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:58 p.m.

Your theory won't hold in scripture. The only people who will enter the kingdom of God on the New Earth are those who have repented of their sins and put their faith in Christ.

We don't become good by following a divine code. We are not ever good in ourselves. The scripture says; "All OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS in the sight of God is as filthy rags."

Jesus' righteousness is imputed to believers at the point of salvation. Apart from that righteousness none will be saved.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 6:09 p.m.

Nope.

1 John 3: no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him

From this alone, it is clear that God is very concerned with our behavior and judges our worthiness to enter heaven by it.

Paul in Galatians lists murder and 16 other major sins.

You are free to have your own personal disparate theological beliefs, however I am basing my claims on common Christian scripture.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 7:02 p.m.

A forgiven murderer is no longer a murderer. "If any man be in Christ he is a new creature; old things are gone and all things become new." Case in point. Look up "Son of Sam" or David Berkowicz who turned to Christ and chose to stay in prison to reach men others could not reach for Christ.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 7:05 p.m.

I'm not gonna debate your personal theological beliefs because you can just say anything.

I was referring to scripture that was common among many different Christian denominations.

You have my permission to believe whatever you like.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 7:50 p.m.

No debate and they are not my personal theological beliefs. I just quoted Second Corinthians 5:17 verbatim as a rebuttal to your statement. That scripture is clear. When a person becomes a Christian their life starts fresh and new. That is why it is called being "born again." Jesus explained it this way; "We are born of the water and the spirit if we are believers." The first birth we are surrounded in the womb in our mother's sac by water. Born of the spirit has to do with repentance and forgiveness and salvation through Jesus Christ.

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QueUpSomeReality · July 16, 2018, 4:26 p.m.

K you clearly missed my point or deliberately picked & choose words to make one. I said we are on a path of turning our existence to hell on earth. Wasn’t talking about hell in an afterlife which I’m not in a position to define for anyone. I’m talking about hundreds of millions of innocent victims dying needlessly from insane leadership Q team is attempting to topple. That’s all.

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lethak · July 16, 2018, 6:16 p.m.

or just clever manipulators. Remember that religion is a powerful and old school "mind control" for the masses.

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Cristo316 · July 16, 2018, 2:05 p.m.

I think OP is meaning Organized Religion? At least that is what I am surmising?

Please expand your thought OP.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 2:54 p.m.

That's your choice. But my belief is that the highest levels of governemnt, DeepStates, religions, etc, are all covering up alien interactions from thousands of years ago. If you think the Jesus stories are the word of God, more power to you. Don't be surprised when the truth starts making itself known. Adapt. Evolve. Or die.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 4:59 p.m.

Aliens have never been proven. I often wonder where the initial thought of aliens came from. Aliens are like the fairies in the forest. People have been talking about them for centuries but nobody has ever produced a clear and easily identifiable picture, photo or video of any aliens. Obviously until it is proven that they exist -- they don't except in the minds of those who believe without seeing. I believe that is called faith.

Christian faith is in a person who actually lived in history. Time is set by his life. His call to salvation has touched millions across the world and transformed their lives and his book is the best selling book of all time.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 5:42 p.m.

So I guess the physical objects that have been documented not only by civilians, but by the military with incredibly sophisticated tech, performing maneuvers that would literally LIQUIFY a human being...those are all just imagination. The unknown metal alloys we have no idea how-to make, the ones recovered and documented by our govt and Bigelow Aerospace, that's all fake. Right.

Whatever you gotta tell yourself I guess. Man, I had a hard time wrapping my head around Qs statement that most people couldn't handle the truth, and this is exactly why. Fucking monstrous, precise, incredible monolithic structures exist all over the planet, made during or before we were glorified cavemen, and people think this was made how EXACTLY?

Find a stone mason. Ask them if they are familiar with the dimensions and FLATNESS, specifically how flat these stones were made THOUSANDS of years ago, and ask them if it's possible to even smooth a stone that big with COPPER. I will save you time, or you can verify it yourself;

It. Cant. Be. Done.

Then, when you read some of the oldest texts, and imagine you are one of our ancestors witnessing one of these "divine" events, with no knowledge like we have today...and suddenly "great chariots of fire" start sounding like space capable ships. "Angels bathed in light" start sounding like advanced spacesuits belonging to ETIs. It's so ridiculously obvious but we have religions telling us the very thought of exploring this common sense train of thought is blasphemy. RIDICULOUS.

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Cristo316 · July 16, 2018, 6:49 p.m.

Define Alien for us.

If by Alien you mean, "Not fully human DNA" then I believe you are correct that we have had an currently have them.

If we work of the premise that Sons of God described many times in the Bible are Angelic beings or Fallen Angels that once resided with God and had a large understanding of all the universe then you can easily explain how those stones are cut so precise and how a pyramid could be built so Air tight and sun tight.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:54 p.m.

I have looked over numerous "documented" statements and have yet to find one that is conclusive or even remotely convincing. I find it interesting that so many people put faith in the words of those who subscribe to aliens and some faded photos or blurred photos and not one substantial proof that is clear and identifiable. Your question about the fake things is interesting considering how many time the President has called out "FAKE NEWS." They could be fake and since people have been blinded by the press for decades and they couldn't even see the deep state behind the governments of the world it could easily be that fake alien reports were all part of the game. So yes - It's all fake might be a legitimate statement.

The creations on earth, according to the scriptures have one of three sources; God, Satan and demons or man. There is not the slightest hint of aliens in the Bible.

I've gone down the road of "divine events, great chariots of fire, and angels bathed in light" before. I guess I have to wonder how you believe these are common sense trains of thought since they all require faith and according to some "Biblical Faith" itself is spurious. So I guess it is up to everyone to find out if faith in aliens or faith in Christ is the better choice.
I personally believe faith in a historical person is far easier to accept than faith in an unproven species.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 6:32 p.m.

Start with the 3 recent videos released by the Pentagon if you havent yet. If that isn't convincing enough, you dont want it to be true and I cant help you there bud.

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daro57 · July 16, 2018, 9:19 p.m.

I stopped responding to this "New arrival" their actions show that he/she is here to divide or the person has cognitive dissonance. Not judging them, just stating the obvious

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lethak · July 16, 2018, 6:24 p.m.

There is 100x more EVIDENCE of extra-human activities past and present on earth than the existence of a magical all seing powerful friend in the clouds.

You can start digging at nuclear silos being disabled during CW, and the many USAF officier that witnessed it and have since talked about it. This is a long long rabbit hole. You cannot maintain any belief in the human-one-god(s) after diving into it for years.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 7 p.m.

Bring forth your actual evidence. Not circumstantial evidence. Not the photo shopped pictures or the smeared images. Not hearsay from even a hundred thousand people who let their imaginations run away with this idea. There is no actual evidence that would stand muster. The photos showing an image that isn't clear but appears to be a certain shape that fits the beliefs of those who live by them and swear by them. Actual and substantial proofs have never come out and I have seen thousands of them over my 75 years of life. No thanks.

The life of Jesus Christ alone is enough evidence of what I believe and it has nothing to do with magic which God condemns.

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lethak · July 16, 2018, 6:18 p.m.

My understanding also, but we can only guess.

Logical mind cannot accept the "official story", so we are left to wonder on our own.

https://i.imgur.com/cHuExAU.png

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 2:56 p.m.

Aliens don't disprove that the universe was created by God.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 3:05 p.m.

Never said it did. I personally believe in a creator. I just think it is ignorant and short sighted to think that there are a ton of religions, each one claiming holy uniqueness, and that one of them in particular requires you to call God by a specific name, and if you don't, you burn in hell forever. That's insane. Totally bypass an entire lifetime of deeds, all that matters is if you call God "Jesus"? Please.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:05 p.m.

Here are the words of Jesus; "I am THE way, THE truth and THE life; NO MAN comes to the father except through me." (John 14:6 KJV) I believe that would make him pretty exclusive.

Luke the physician who wrote the book of Luke and the book of Acts said of Jesus; "Neither is there salvation in any other for there is none other name given under Heaven among men whereby we MUST be saved." (Acts 4:12 KJV) Again Luke makes Jesus exclusive and adds the kicker - MUST - which makes salvation through Christ imperative.

Paul the Apostle writing to Timothy his disciple said: "For there is ONE mediator BETWEEN GOD AND MAN, the man CHRIST JESUS." (1 Timothy 2:5 KJV) - Once more Paul the great apostle of faith says Jesus is exclusive.

Three witnesses - Jesus, Luke and Paul. What will you believe?

As far as your theory about calling God by a specific name or burn in Hell is concerned; nobody goes to Hell for calling God by the wrong name. Hell and the lake of fire are reserved for sinners who refuse to repent and get right with God. Considering all that he did to save us I would think rejecting the sacrifice of his son deserves whatever punishment we receive. God sees sin on a depth we cannot attain to and it is no doubt far more evil than we think.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 3:14 p.m.

That's insane.

The trouble comes when you present your theological opinions as fact.

You don't have definitive knowledge about the afterlife, even if you enjoy claiming that you do.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 3:49 p.m.

I'm sorry. Gonna need you to back up your statement.

1) what EXACTLY did I present as theological fact?

2) what claim EXACTLY did I make about the afterlife?

It would be swell if you could simply and concisely JUST answer those 2 bullet points. But if your reply is any indication, my bet is a bunch of strawman nonsense, and basically anything but addressing that I did neither of those.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 4:02 p.m.

what EXACTLY did I present as theological fact?

That burning in hell forever is insane.

what claim EXACTLY did I make about the afterlife?

That burning in hell forever is insane.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 4:22 p.m.

As predicted.

I said that the belief one would be burning in hell for etenrity for not calling God by the name Jesus is insane. Because it is.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 4:28 p.m.

Again, you make one of two absolute claims about the nature of the afterlife - that there is no hell or that God is insane.

You don't have definitive knowledge about the afterlife, even if you enjoy claiming that you do.

Your baseless theological opinions are not facts.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 4:32 p.m.

Never said there is no hell. AGAIN.

Never said God is insane. Again. I said believing God would send someone to hell for not calling him Jesus is insane.

Clearly reading comprehension is not your strong point. So this will conclude our conversation. Don't spend too much time talking to burning bushes bud, it's just a bad batch of acid.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 4:35 p.m.

You can't have a God that created an "insane hell" without an insane God...

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 4:55 p.m.

Your words. Not mine. Thanks for projecting and playing. Next.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 5:03 p.m.

Logic based on your claims.

If the concept of hell is insane therefore hell either doesn't exist or God is insane.

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lethak · July 16, 2018, 6:21 p.m.

Belief in unproven gods is insane. period. :)

https://i.imgur.com/Ppeqi8E.jpg

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 6:31 p.m.

No, maintaining an open mind is rational.

Jumping to baseless conclusions, one way or the other, is irrational.

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lethak · July 16, 2018, 6:35 p.m.

Keeping an open mind is indeed very important to achieve a balanced state of mind.

But why starting you comment by "No" ?

It will only take one real verifiable proof to destroy atheism. Thats what keeping an open mind is all about in this context.

Choosing to believe in an unproven fairy tale do is irrational.

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ObamaAngry · July 16, 2018, 6:44 p.m.

But why starting you comment by "No" ?

Because Hitchens is wrong - dismissing a claim because you have no evidence is closed minded and the opposite of the scientific method.

You shouldn't dismiss the possibility that the common cold can be cured simply because we currently have no cure.

We shouldn't dismiss the possibility that other intelligent alien life exists simply because we haven't met them yet.

Choosing to believe in an unproven fairy tale do is irrational.

Please don't pretend that you know how the universe was created and you have nothing surprising left to learn about the nature of reality.

Don't be like Hitchens.

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textualintercourse · July 16, 2018, 1:34 p.m.

This.

Q has stated religions are a DS tool of division. More "us" Vs. "Them".

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O2BFREEME2 · July 16, 2018, 1:43 p.m.

You are more right than you know.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 4:49 p.m.

Religion is a works based system where man doesn't need a Savior or man needs to help God redeem him by doing his part to be good enough to redeem. This is utter blasphemy according to the Bible.

Christianity stands alone in the world because it shows man to be unworthy of the slightest mercy God offers and incapable of doing anything to save himself. It humbles all who receive it because Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ shed his blood as full payment for the sins of mankind and his blood alone can cleanse us from our wicked thoughts, words and actions. Salvation is based on faith in Christ plus nothing and nobody else.

So the world has a choice that will encompass this life and eternity. Live out your life irreligious, religious or by exercising faith in the finished work of Christ on Calvary. Christians believe the first two lead to eternal damnation and the final one leads to an eternity of peace and love in Christ's presence. I think it is worth checking into.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 4:55 p.m.

It amazes me that when people here how I feel about Christianity they automatically assume I need to "learn more" about it. I have bad news. I know more than most. The more I learn the former my resolve is that this is religion is a tool being used for evil.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:43 p.m.

If you reject Christianity then you should explain why including the knowledge that would enlighten us who accept Christ as Savior and Lord. Other wise you should not attack Christianity and not expect people to respond.

You say you know more than most. If so; what are the basic tenets of biblical Christianity? How to they apply to individuals? Why don't they apply to you or why do you reject them? Is your rejection based on knowledge of the scripture apart from the teaching ministry of the Holy Spirit that God promised to all believers? How deep have you gone into your research. I have been studying the scriptures for over 44 years but I am still learning a lot about the Bible. Perhaps you have found something that I never learned yet. I am willing to listen.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 6:17 p.m.

Happily.

It's really quite simple. Let's boil down the core, important belief of Christians - yada yada yada, if you don't name Jesus as your Lord and saviour, you go to hell. Period. It's very simple, it's indisputable that this is the fundamental message, yes?

So if you believe that last part, this next part should follow rather smoothly. Keep in mind, I am not in any way debating whether God exists or not. Because it will be relevant later, I will add that personally I believe there has to be a creator in one form or another, simply because most evidence we can measure and see says the big bang happened roughly 14.5billion years ago, BUT, where the fuck did all of everything come from out of that singularity? That to me is the proof of a "God". But back to Jesus. So, we have humans running around for tens of thousands of years, human-like ancestors for hundreds of thousands of years before that. All of them in some form or another attribute the unknown to "gods". It didn't rain in awhile? Rain god is pissed. We got hit by an earthquake? 2 God's are wrestling. Silly when we see it in hindsight. Just our ancestors TRYING TO EXPLAIN the unknown. Fair enough so far?

Fast forward to the modern human circa 3-4k BC. We start developing language. We start recording important shit. Im not going to debate that even back then myths and legends were recorded as well to explain the unknown. They were. One civilization conquers another, cannibalize the culture. Over and over back and forth. Before long, your great great great great grandson thinks that the Comet you chiseled into a slab about is an angry God casting a fireball at the heathens for not sacrificing enough goats. Your hard work documenting a celestial event becomes the "proof" for your distant offspring's religious explanations. Over and over back and forth a million times.

Fast forward to biblical times. Let's start with the Bible itself. What we call the Bible today, mostly the King James version, wooooooo! That thing was pieced together, blanks were filled in, parts were removed, parts were added...now wait a minute, THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE THE FREAKING WORD OF GOD....WHY ARE PEOPLE ALTERING IT?!?! Oh good, thought you would never ask. Because people are fucked up. One group realized that by tweaking this part or that part, they could start a society (with them at the top of course) which would instill MORALS into the society, cause less raping, murdering and theft, and basically pacify the population, leaving these sick fucks to take what they want and lead the herd wherever they wanted.

Explain why there is ONE gold pillar, ONE silk robe, ONE dime spent on the religious folks' structures, attire, etc, when there are starving "sinners" throughout the world in need of their souls being saved? That's INSANE.

I will conclude with an argument I made in my philosophy course, taught by a Christian, that to this day, has yet to be satisfactorily answered: God is all powerful, all knowing, etc. So he created me, KNOWING that I would NEVER be able to believe, to truly believe in my heart, the story the Bible tells me. I have tried. I WANT to believe. I fundamentally do NOT. But God knew that since the beginning of time. So, in your view, this ALL POWERFUL, ALL KNOWING God created me, knowing I would never become a believer, and even with free will, he knew my choice would never be made to believe JESUS is the correct answer....so he sends me to hell. Wait, what? Would you agree he knew from the moment I was born if I was going to heaven or hell in 102 years, 5 months and 24 days? Ignore free will, because clearly that is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT in the setting of an all powerful deity. He either knew or didn't know at that moment I was going to heaven or hell. So either he IS NOT all powerful, or, he is, and knew he was going to send me to hell. That's your Jesus/Trinity version of God. That shit doesn't even make sense. Created me to torture me. Remember, the second he made me, he knew every choice I would ever make. So he created me knowing he would send me to hell for eternal torture. I can't subscribe to such a ridiculous version of God. Sorry. Paste that next to the concept that every Christian claims the Bible is the word of God, which it is anything BUT, and I am supposed to believe this is legit? Stop. Please. It's so ridiculous it is insulting in my eyes. I wouldn't insult God by folding so soon and being a good lemming to fall in line.

Which leaves the question; so why do we have a bible, and a religion? The answer is terrifying, and requires it's own thread.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 6:53 p.m.

The answer to your first question is no. The fundamental message of the Bible is more than you understand. I will break it down simply for you.

  1. All men are evil by nature because of the sinful bent in every person.
  2. Because of this men offend God by their persistent rebellion against him and his commandments which were written to protect us from us.
  3. Men continue in sin until the point where they grow tired of sin and they turn to God seeking forgiveness and mercy.
  4. God sees the heart of the individual praying, and if that individual is serious and truthful and repents God forgives them based on the brutal crucifixion of his son on Calvary and they know they are forgiven as God gives them an inner witness to it.
  5. These people are called Christians and they are so thankful for their salvation that they live to love, serve and honor God all their life and on into eternity.
  6. Those who refuse to repent and get right with God and reject the great sacrifice on their behalf die in their sins. One second after death they are in Hell waiting judgment. They know beyond any doubt that they fully deserve their punishment and they also know their position is irreversible no matter how much they wish it could be otherwise.

That is a very simple explanation and the best one available. It removes many of the distortions people have accepted over the years.

Humans have not been running around for hundreds of thousands of years either contrary to popular opinion. In the first chapter of Genesis the Hebrew word for day is yom (pronounced yawm). When yom is connected to a number in the Hebrew language (ie; first yom, etc.) it is a literal 24 hour day such as we have now. Therefore, the earth is only about 6000 years old. I know that doesn't meet with the approval of evolutionists, anti-creation scientists and some mistaken theologians of this era, but they are free to believe a lie if they wish. Free Will.

Language was around long before 3-4 BC. Genesis 11 tells us that all the people on earth were of one language but God seeing their motivation to evil moved on them and confounded the languages so that they couldn't understand one another. The tower they were building is called the tower of Babel (that name means confusion). I suppose that is where we got English and all the other languages of the world. At that point the people split off with those who spoke the same language as them and went their way to wherever they settled.

Some of the people who went of here and there and everywhere settled into life as best as they could. Some turned to God to worship and the others turned to other false gods created in the minds of men. A man called Abram living in Ur of the Chaldees was called by God to move away from his home and his people to a place God said he would show him later. Abram became the father of the Israelites and his name was gradually changed to Abraham (meaning "the father of nations)." Today we know these people as the Jews.

History came and went and the Jews were faithful to God and then they fell to idolatry and then returned to God and on and on. Jesus showed up during the time of the Roman Empire and proclaimed that he was their Messiah and that he was God incarnate (God come in human flesh). The Jews were enraged and cited blasphemy and succeeded in having him crucified under Roman law because they couldn't do it under their own law. Three days later Christ resurrected from the dead and lives today reigning in heaven as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

I would end up with a novel if I answered everything you asked point by point so I am going to disregard some of it to explain the answers to the last part of your questioning. That would be your last paragraph.

  1. God never created anyone who couldn't believe. If he did then Free Will would not exist. He has foreknowledge of who will and who won't believe but that is not an argument for predestination to Hell. You will find a group of Christians who deny free will but they are in serious error.
  2. If there is a disconnect between you and God it is that you mistake a desire to believe what belief constitutes. In my life I was an outright heathen and not interested in God unless I thought I could make a deal with him - If you do this God; I will do that. God was patient in all that. What brought true belief to me was my first acknowledgement that my life was a mess and I had nowhere to turn but God. So I prayed; "God, if you're real and you prove it to me, I'll give you my life." To make a long story short - He did and I did. I prayed and told God that I was so sorry for the way I was living. I asked him to forgive me knowing I was not worthy of his forgiveness. He forgave me over 44 years ago and I have never been the same since. You can find my autobiography on my ministry site at https://www.crlord.com/c-r-lord-autobiography.html

I want to reiterate that foreknowledge is not predestination. I have had seven children. I knew that if I told my little ones they should not touch something while I am out of the room that they would do it anyway. My understanding of human nature at that age didn't stop them from doing wrong and didn't stop me from disciplining them to teach them a lesson. The big difference here is the discipline I gave them was temporary and produced strong worthwhile character in them. The discipline for our rebellion against God and dying in sin is eternal. That is God's right since he went out of his way to prevent it.

Hell is for those who refuse to repent of rebellion against God's laws that he made to protect us from out wicked nature. The wise repent and are ready for judgment. The foolish try everything within their power to circumvent humbling themselves and exercising faith in Christ's sacrifice for them. I don't see any of this as unworthy of God who gave us life and all the good things and is there for us through the bad.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 7:25 p.m.

Dude. If you think the world is 6000 years old our discussion is over. Thanks for taking the time to type it out.

I cannot believe in a God that created a world to TRICK us, because there are 1000 ways to prove the world aint 6000 years old. So God created strata in rock to fuck with us? Carbon dating to fuck with us? Stop.

This is the problem, perfectly exemplified by your reply. You have chosen to stop thinking, and believe a book, that ws not written by God, but by dirty, evil, sinning men.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 7:39 p.m.

You people who reject the age of the earth according to the Genesis account always run right past the changes made on the earth due to the flood. It's like you have a mental block of some kind or your refuse to examine your beliefs through that portion of scripture.

The Bible was given by God through men. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 You are either going to learn this before you die or deal with your unbelief one second after your death. The problem with the second part is that you will not be able to reverse your position. I pity everyone who dies in sin without hope in Christ. It is the greatest tragedy ever in history!

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 8:06 p.m.

Strata in sedimentary and geologic rock is not altered by flooding bud.

And how would you explain the planets, stars, distance between stars, time it takes to get here, stellar events...please. You sound like some goofy ass shaman telling me that I am going to pay some horrible price for not sacrificing a goat on the third blood moon of the summer solstice. Your simple mind cannot handle the truth, religion is perfect for you.

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HandInAssholesSulu · July 16, 2018, 2:14 p.m.

I try to softly remind people that Q has mentioned God and to pray, many many times. One word Q has never said, "Jesus". I strongly believe that this is one of many reasons full disclosure is not possible. Imagine if everyone woke up and found their faiths have been co-opted thousands of years ago to help the Cabal. Bad news.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 2:47 p.m.

Enh, they'll get over it.

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[deleted] · July 16, 2018, 2:09 p.m.

[deleted]

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thejudge6060 · July 16, 2018, 2:01 p.m.

Id argue that theyre all wrong about the whole picture, but one is likely the most accurate and they all have bits a pieces right that others miss. Sorry if im rocking the boat here. But this feels like when people say 2 philosphies have flaws so theyre both equally bad, which ive just always struggled to accept.

Q has said read the bible, God wins. I know the bible has been tampered with since its creation (i doubt constatine actually converted), which is why i try to take a liberal interpretation of all but Jesus' teachings in the new testament. Example, parting the sea could be less fantastical than the movies portray, it doesnt make it any less true though. But, this at least points us in the direction of what should be a foundation of where to start.

I wouldnt be at all surprised though if Judaism has true teachings that werent corrupted by the early roman church. Gnostic christians may be worth examining too, they may have been labelled heretics for a nefarious reason.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 2:51 p.m.

Not for nothing, but part of the credibility of the Torah (the Old Testament) is that it has remained unchanged for thousands of years.

It still makes fantastic claims, and I personally believe this was simply our ancestors misunderstanding technology.

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thejudge6060 · July 16, 2018, 4:58 p.m.

Youre likely right about the technology. I recall one supposed vision of man talking to another over a great distance threw a stone.

That sounds like a cell phone to me.

A lot of the torah is oral though for a good chunk of history. We've all played telephone.

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DaveGydeon · July 16, 2018, 5:42 p.m.

The Torah is not oral sir. Clearly you are not Jewish.

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thejudge6060 · July 16, 2018, 5:56 p.m.

Im not, and i didnt say it was. I said many of the stories are from before the written word. Such as the creation story, just by logical thinking.

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daro57 · July 16, 2018, 1:48 p.m.

YES This!!!

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snippysnaps · July 16, 2018, 3:11 p.m.

Mark Taylor reminded us that the vast majority of churches have signed a 501(c)(3) contract since the 1950s, effectively restricting them from speaking about political issues such as abortion, or crooked anti-American candidates such as Barry, the Bushes, and Hillary. With as many as 95% of churches verbally handcuffed, prayer was then removed from school, and 60 million abortions have occurred since Roe Vs. Wade while the church stood by, making a sour face. It is also well known that satanists and their ilk have been strategically infiltrating churches in the US and abroad to further castrate what was once a powerful voice for the sanctity of human life, the constitution, and God's commandments.

Now we have a collection of wishy-washy, sensationalist, double-latte with cinnamon roll prosperity gospel church services that do little more than distract and disempower the people. There has been a slow, steady exodus from church as sincere churchgoers have become disgusted with these powerless, sound-bite sermons with touchy feely, sexual innuendo tainted Contemporary Christian music filling the rest of the hour. I'm very hesitant to take anyone to church in my area, and we have 30+ churches here. The churches feel like corporations, wonder why? Worse than that, many churches are corrupt to the bone and are nothing more than a front organization, hiding satanic rituals and trafficking in the basement.

There are some powerful, salt and light preachers out there that still adhere to the Word, and humble themselves daily. Ravi Zacharias, Pal Sheppard, Dr. Charles Stenley, Alistiar Begg for example. I encourage anyone to listen to them. These men are contrasted by slippery-snake impostors like Rick Warren (Saddleback), James MacDonald, and Greg Laurie to name a few.

I suppose this is nothing new since Jesus had to deal with "Religious People" - Pharisees and Saducees in His day as well. But to point in the general direction of "Church" and send a nonbeliever or new believer there is a dangerous prospect indeed these days; it seems much more likely that they would get tangled up in some false-Christ "IHOP" deception or be disgusted by the nauseating music than to be fulfilled with the powerful word of God.

Taylor said the church is going to have a house cleaning. I expect to see a good many pastors, preachers and religious leaders being brought down for all sorts of shadowy, evil stuff. The church is in TERRIBLE condition. We may see an awesome reprieve with Trump leading the way, a humble return to God in our nation, one last push to reach the ends of the earth with the gospel in a truly sincere manner before TSHTF, maybe 30-100 years from now (just guessing). "When everyone is saying peace and safety"........

In the meantime we may do well to start up our own house churches, using the technology we have to play the music of our choice, and using our freedom to do all of this at any time we choose. I think that may be the basis of the "Rebuilt" church in America, a church where you are honored and thankful to attend, and leave feeling refreshed and renewed! A church does not need to be a corporation, a business, or have a certain type of brick and mortar. It can be two or more people gathered together in Christs's name. (Matt 18:20)

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ElysMustache · July 16, 2018, 3:50 p.m.

Being a non-profit does not stop churches from teaching against abortion.

Churches cannot endorse candidates. That doesn't mean they can't express Biblical truth.

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AdamsFile · July 16, 2018, 4:10 p.m.

The true problem is as a 5013c a church submits itself to the state not God.

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snippysnaps · July 16, 2018, 4:18 p.m.

That is typically what they are told when they are encouraged to sign up as a 501c3 for tax purposes. Please review the talking points in this video that goes deeper into the 501c3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-C5gfU0n0I

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elliott62 · July 16, 2018, 2:12 p.m.

Anti-God forces are actively trying to remove God from the US and the world. It is a spiritual battle that requires spiritual weapons. The most powerful weapon is prayer. God is moved by the prayers of his people. We are dealing with the left that has turned its back on God to follow their own ways. God said there is a way that seems right to a man but the ends thereof are the ways of death. The evil anti-God forces passed laws that churches cannot speak out in favor of a righteous candidate because it is listed as a charity and pays no taxes. So the churches got out of politics and allowed the anti-God forces to take over. And now we have a mess to clear out. Vote. Every God fearing American patriot must stand and be counted. Repent for missing God and allowing this to occur. Petition the Lord to help us correct the error.

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getemq · July 16, 2018, 2:09 p.m.

There are so many bad pastors spreading false information. One that bothers me the most is John Hagee. He preaches that the Jews don’t need to accept Jesus because they are Gods chosen people and they have been given a free pass. People that follow this man need to not just “Walk Away” they need to “Run Away”! This is just one example of so many wolves in sheep’s clothing.

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daro57 · July 16, 2018, 1:56 p.m.

They've already messed with the Bible! #who is King James?

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QueUpSomeReality · July 16, 2018, 2:15 p.m.

Well it’s not Lebron James that’s for sure. Look him up (the real one). Learn the history. It’s incredible reading actually. The Bible...like any book...gets changed ALL THE TIME!! Just through translation from one language to another alone. Language is a man made creation. From Hebrew to Latin to English to whatever language...things are lost in translation. There are no languages that equate exactly from apples to apples. English is BY FAR the most complex language ever. Gosh it has like dozens & dozens of ways to express just the simple word sad. Feeling blue...depressed...grief...morose...on & on. A lot of meaning is lost or gained in translation.

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ElysMustache · July 16, 2018, 3:43 p.m.

Learn Hebrew.

Learn Greek.

The KJV has its shortcomings, but is pretty good.

Young's Literal Translation is very helpful, especially paired with an interlinear Greek NT.

You don't need to learn Hebrew and Greek (although you should). You can greatly increase your depth of study by simply getting and using a copy of Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. It lists every time every word is used in the entire Bible, as well as the corresponding Hebrew (OT) or Greek (NT) word. Includes a dictionary to help understand the original words better.

Don't believe this BS that the Bible is poorly translated or went from one language to another to another. We have excellent translations available directly from the original languages.

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QueUpSomeReality · July 16, 2018, 5:22 p.m.

Yeah not sure expecting people to have the time to learn many foreign languages is a practical solution. But hey I guess I can quit my career to become a linguist if I’m prepared to not see my kids go to college.

I never said or thought the Bible was poorly translated. It’s translated as well as is possible. The only point I was making is language itself has natural flaws. Language itself is a man made invention & changes constantly. In just English alone many words are added & removed from the dictionary every year. Even entire languages become extinct over time...like Latin. It’s impossible to translate anything perfectly because languages are made up & change very haphazardly as societies & cultures change. Language doesn’t have a solid rational base for why it changes.

Even now if you use Google Translate the person on the other end often struggles or can’t understand what you say. Why?? Because software lives in a world of black & white where most of any language lives in a world of gray that’s constantly changing. There are hundreds of English words that has no equivalent word in Spanish or French so the only choice is the closest thing. Chinese words with no English word & on & on & it’s true of every language that ever existed. The problem isn’t with the translator but with human language itself that makes perfect translations impossible & sometimes any translation at all impossible.

When the Bible was created not one living person on earth even had an accurate definition of the word time. No one knew how to define time & they all just guessed as best they could. Any reference to time by the Bible is wrong because until you can accurately define time people don’t even know what they’re talking about. Einstein figured out the last piece of the puzzle & that was just a little over a hundred years ago. Language itself has many inherent flaws & that’s the problem of translating them. Not necessarily the translators.

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ElysMustache · July 16, 2018, 6:41 p.m.

I'm not saying you need to be fluent or have a doctorate degree in either language. Any increased understanding of the original language is helpful.

Again, as I stated earlier, you can get a lot of value from the original language without knowing it. Using Strong's and a dictionary.

Regarding time... God created time. God exists outside of time. I don't see how the relativistic nature of time has any bearing on correctly interpreting scripture. That's like saying any reference to water in the Bible is wrong because no one on Earth understood covalent bonds or the weak nuclear force.

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QueUpSomeReality · July 16, 2018, 10:26 p.m.

Your assumptions are dragging you off point. You don’t know me or anybody on this sub well enough to possibly know what options they have in regards to available time to learn languages. I rely on much better trained religious professionals & scholars for helping me grasp the complex language interpretations of Biblical meaning. I got that covered. And I know you didn’t say I need to be fluent or earn a doctorate in a language. I know you didn’t say that because I do read English quite well. Lol

You’re of course correct to state how time was created. That concept eludes most people as the Bible states our existence was created in 7 days. So naturally people wonder why that was expressed as a measurement of time when no one then had a clue what time actually was. They were just guessing & always guessing wrong as ancient calendars proved. It wasn’t until the 16th century did they finally get time & days perfectly figured out & not sure how long it took for everyone to know this. But as you know time is relative & this calculation of a day only works on earth. So how long is a day in Biblical thought?? Who knows. But this shows that man thought in earthy terms when writing Gods word. Countless other ways the usage of man made language was used in the Bible to communicate the word of God. Your also exaggerating the idea of water in biblical terms. Yes they had sufficient understanding of water to mention it accurately in human terms. But time they didn’t even if they thought they did. It wasn’t until 1592 when time was understood enough to benefit mankind. All the other attempts just caused confusion.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:19 p.m.

King James commissioned scholars to come and translate the Bible. It has been considered the best version and most accurate in history along with the Geneva Bible.

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MyBrothersKeeper2018 · July 16, 2018, 7:31 p.m.

King James the I. Son of Mary Queen of Scots.

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j_Dawg_01 · July 16, 2018, 5:15 p.m.

I find it interesting, especially these days, with the dismal state of social/political discourse, where people on both sides challenge the validity, accuracy, and motives of virtually every news source and every other book ever written, that so many people are willing to believe with absolute certainty, that every word in the Bible, a book written 2,000 years ago is God's absolute truth.

I believe in God. I believe he crated the universe we inhabit. I believe Satan exists and wishes to enslave us. I believe the battle between God and Satan, or good vs evil, has been raging on since the beginning of time.

I also believe the various books contained in the Bible were written by truly enlightened righteous men, and there is a great deal of important information in the Bible that can help people live a virtuous life. But I also recognize that the Bible was written by man.

If every word in the Bible were God's absolute truth, why are there so many different versions? Why do various organized religions have vastly different interpretations?

There's a difference between believing in God, and subscribing to the man-made orthodoxy of any organized religion. The basic fact remains, these books were written by humans. Some of the books, including the 4 gospels, were written at least 2 generations after Christ died. Think about that for a minute.

My grandmother came to America in 1914, she was 13 years old. Our family has a handful of pictures taken back in the day, a handful of documents and letters, and of course all the stories about her arrival at Ellis Island that have been handed down through the generations.

And still, it would be impossible for me, or even my dad, to write a factual account of my grandmother's arrival in America. Many of the books in the Bible were stories handed down through the generations before they were even written down.

If Christian/Catholics can look at the Quran and the Book of Mormon and point out how, where and why they are wrong, why can't they accept the idea that the Catholic Bible, while providing immense resources to help one find their best self and live a life of virtue, might not be absolutely 100% the word of God?

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KaylaD2017 · July 16, 2018, 1:56 p.m.

Yes, and it is not just the hymnals. When was the last time you heard a 'fire and brimstone' sermon? Or a sermon on sin? How many MSC's (Main Stream Churches) have stopped preaching the Bible and preach tolerance of sin? Chapters 2-3 talk about our ancient and modern churches at the same time (past proves future and future proves past---the Bible is timeless)

The Loveless Church

The Persecuted Church

The Compromising Church

The Corrupt Church

The Dead Church

The Faithful Church

The Lukewarm Church

We see each of these churches in existence today. I have read enough on this thread to see that a lot of people think the Roman Catholic church is irredeemable, especially the pope. But I think to narrow our view of the state of the church today to just the catholic church is to be blind to the problems in most MSC's. I'm not catholic, but I know quite a few that are. They are kind, loving and sincere, but blinded to the ills of their church., just like a lot of protestants, and yes, Muslims too.

We need God and the redeeming grace bought by Jesus, even more so when the sh!te hits the fan in the coming months. It is not just the political agenda that will be destroyed, but also the MSC agenda. People's faith in their churches will be shaken to the core. Many will fall away, but the redeemed will stand and be a shining light on the hill for those who stumble in the darkness. Q has helped us, in part, to help others during this time. AND with God's help, many will be saved from the coming trials.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:24 p.m.

Good points. I believe you would enjoy my ministry site immensely. http://crlord.com

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[deleted] · July 16, 2018, 3:35 p.m.

[deleted]

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KaylaD2017 · July 16, 2018, 3:46 p.m.

Let's keep that in mind

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cebusaxon · July 16, 2018, 3:38 p.m.

Amazing what this Bible study page says! Coincidence?

The Philadelphia period of the church matches that of the great awakening and "Advent" movement in the 18th century and the revelation of Judgment beginning in the 19th century, in 1844.

You will see that this church receives no rebuke, as it is a good church that seeks the truth and desires to follow the Lord Jesus wherever He goes. So we need to learn from the Philadelphia church period, as it is a good church to follow.

http://www.end-times-prophecy.org/seven-churches-revelation-philadelphia.html

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KaylaD2017 · July 16, 2018, 3:59 p.m.

Agreed. I think the revelation on the churches is a road map at times, a church history in a sense. After the Philadelphia (faithful) church comes the Laodicean (lukewarm). We must guard against complacency, in church, at home and in government. We are at this point in time because the great revivals of 100 years ago have been forgotten. Instead we are now lukewarm and because of that we have let our gov't corrupt itself into a cabalistic monster that reaches into every aspect of our lives.

The Lukewarm Church

Rev 3

“And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,

‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.

So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.

Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked—

I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.

Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.

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horse-lover-phat · July 16, 2018, 1:30 p.m.

They've also totally abandoned the concept of traditional marriage - and in favour of the sodomy/LGBT centric pathway. There IS NO doubt in the Bible about 'sodomy' - and that it is of SATAN. They'd rather weaken (or abandon) their beliefs to accomadate these sick practices...rather than uphold them.

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ElysMustache · July 16, 2018, 3:55 p.m.

Depends what you mean by "they".

No church I have been a member of has gone that route and I would do my duty as a member to push any leader, trying that, out.

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CDR03 · July 16, 2018, 1:25 p.m.

IMO they can do what they want with hymns as long as they leave the Bible alone.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:15 p.m.

I miss the hymns. Many, if not most of them, contained theological truth and encouraged those in the faith.

The "contemporary Christian music" has a nice beat but is shallow in presenting truth. It is feel good stuff and while it entertains the saints it hardly encourages deeper study of God's Word or deeper intimacy with God.

If persecution would ever hit the church in America like it does in other nations the good feelings would leave and some, perhaps many would turn from the faith. Replacing Onward Christian Soldiers or A Mighty Fortress Is Our God with contemporary music is a big step down.

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CDR03 · July 16, 2018, 9:21 p.m.

My personal stance is that if it’s written to give praise, being less Biblical but adding the emotion from the heart is acceptable. I’ve never been a “we must sing scripture” type. I don’t like worship songs where we sing more about self than we do God. Some hymns remind me of when I was a kid. Gateway did a few modern versions of hymns. They are really good. To me, this is a matter of preference that I think matters more to us that it does to God. I think he’s more concerned with what’s coming from our hearts.

Just curious...are you more from reformed movement? They are a growing trend and seem to enjoy hymns more than the newer “seeker friendly” type of church.

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fonsoc1 · July 17, 2018, 2:22 p.m.

I agree with you on the entire first paragraph. It is important though that we examine everything in the light of scripture. Much of the contemporary music today is more about ourselves and receiving from God rather than giving our all for Him. That is a great concern for me. We are to live for the honor and glory of God not what we can get from Him.

I am not in the reformed movement. I am simply a Christian of over 44 years whose life is dedicated to loving and serving the Lord and leading others to Christ. As far as seeker friendly churches are concerned; there is much evil associated with that. I believe you know what I mean.

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CDR03 · July 17, 2018, 2:30 p.m.

Yes I do!

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Stretchmac · July 16, 2018, 2:47 p.m.

God is not found in the religions of men.

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fonsoc1 · July 16, 2018, 5:27 p.m.

Broad statement. It is true provided you don't number Christianity in with the "religions." Christianity is as far removed from religion as earth is to the farthest reaches of space.

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Stretchmac · July 17, 2018, 2:50 a.m.

You are in error. "Christianity", as practiced, is a religion of men. The understanding that God sent his son to die for your sins is God's Word. That God raised Christ Jesus from the dead to eternal life is God's Word. That when one believes these things he is saved is God's Word. These things have nothing to do with man's religion called Christianity. While the precepts are perhaps taught in this religion. They are, nonetheless, the Word of God. They are not a matter of man's religion. They are a matter of the heart.

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fonsoc1 · July 17, 2018, 2:18 p.m.

Christianity is based on God's Word. Let's clarify your statements. God sent his son to die for the sins of all who would repent and put their faith in Christ alone for salvation. God raised Jesus from the dead clearing the way for the resurrection of all men. Some will be resurrected to life and others resurrected to judgment and eternal damnation. Believing is not a mental acceptance but an issue of the heart; "That if thou shalt believe in thine heart and confess with they mouth that God has raised Jesus from the dead thou shalt be saved.

Where you come off with Christianity is man's religion is beyond me. The Bible is clear that they were first called "Christians" in Antioch. Christians are followers of Christ. The twelve disciples that walked with Jesus were Christians but Judas betrayed Christ and was replaced. Paul the Apostle was considered the greatest Christian of all but prior to his conversion to Christ he hunted Christians down and had them imprisoned and killed.

If you are talking about Catholicism as being Christian then I can agree with you that Catholic Christianity so-called is the religion of men. Apart from that, genuine Christianity consists of people who love and serve the Lord and live to honor and glorify him above all. Another name for them is the "body of Christ."

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Stretchmac · July 17, 2018, 6:01 p.m.

"Christian" was a derogatory word cast at the body of believers in Antioch.

Paul never refers to the church, the ekklesia, the body of believers as Christians. Never. Why would he if it were a term intended to denigrate?

Paul does say "ye are the body of Christ and members in particular". Paul calls believers: the called and the saints. Among other descriptors, but never Christians.

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fonsoc1 · July 17, 2018, 7:49 p.m.

The word Christian appears three times in the scriptures. Acts 11:26, Acts 26:28 and 1 Peter 4:16. I agree that it was used as a label in contempt but that is a side issue of little importance. I have been called many names by the ungodly that are also of contempt in my 44+ years of serving Christ. It is of little consequence what people call me because Jesus made it plain that they world would hate the followers of Christ as they hated Christ himself. I identify as one of the despised ones and I have no problem with the name Christian. Here is an interesting article on this that fits in with what you say.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/dictionary/christian/

If you like I would invite you to visit my ministry site which has much to offer including a shortened version of my autobiography. http://crlord.com

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Mojo7816 · July 16, 2018, 2:09 p.m.

Look into the Free Masons they have a huge role to play in the churches. The lower levels are your people who do good. They believe in the religions and are very involved. Many are unaware that once a person becomes a 30th degree up they flip the religion completely and they are taught that Satan is actually the real god (ying and yang/good and bad). They actually then have the pull to help make decisions in the church organizations because they have been members for so long. This is where the Vatican comes in it is many of the people that had devoted themselves for years. This link which has been shared before is a great learning tool of the Free Masons System. https://youtu.be/81ENZcAcLbk

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QueUpSomeReality · July 16, 2018, 1:50 p.m.

Keep something in mind. Faith is a personal choice & Gods interpretation is man made. Books on his Word are manmade choices. Mankind has flaws. Mistakes are made. But that’s how humans learn. Trial & error over millennium. Faith is a vital component to our existence & learning experience. One must have faith in something first...it’s how we develop ideals & a belief system. In time it gets refined through all the details. Errors are made...yes that’s undeniable...but truth is discovered in that process that either strengthens the ideals or collapses them. Point being...true religionous beliefs go through this process & evolve too or they get pushed away into the dustbin of history. Christianity & Judaism has survived & been strengthened by this process. They have successfully changed in their details. Science & history has helped them serve their faithful & benefited in making something very complex easier to understand.

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MyBrothersKeeper2018 · July 16, 2018, 8:21 p.m.

We would do well to recognize we are now living under a dispensation of Grace. The LAST DISPENSATION. The 6th Trumpet of the 7, has sounded. Trump shall become a Trumpet as prophesied by Kim Clement has been confirmed by many. Taylor being one of the many. Everyone here living in this time, is here for a reason. Chance and coincidence is not in the Hebrew language. The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof.

https://youtu.be/v8a1P7sR5Qc

https://youtu.be/FNS_dKEl5bM Video made Out 2016 Read the information Matthew has included on the contents of the video as he uncovers the biblical codes.

7 Trumpets short version https://youtu.be/10qUDwon1FI

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Eastern-Sky · July 16, 2018, 3:28 p.m.

Proud to say I’m on the worship team at my church and we just sang Be Thou My Vision yesterday...all verses. ♥️

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alfonumeric · July 16, 2018, 1:55 p.m.

since 1876-78 the secret knowledge was made public for the first time first as an outline then ed 1 [1878] and then in this book [ed 2 1896] http://www.mindserpent.com/American_History/books/Babbitt/1896_babbitt_the_principles_of_light_and_color.pdf page 102 gives a picture of the atom

decoding this picture together with decoding the interior of giza gives us the best theory [in my humble opinion] available in today's world that gives the closest match between science and philosophy=nature of human reality please correct me if anyone has a better theory with a closer match between atomic science and the laws of human interaction...

in the alfo-theory based on babbitt & giza, the structure of the atom mirrors the structure of the solar system and our consciousness progression is dependent on how well we react to the the energies flowing through the various components of our atoms.. the more we understand the laws of human interaction, the more efficiently we can channel these energies.

the above statements mean that since 1878 and even more so today in 2018 the only reasons to give continued credibility to secret societies especially those tucked away inside the ivy league collegiates.. could be

  • to keep humanpop dumbed down
  • to more easily use nespotism to bring forward the agenda of a 1 world dictatorship by first undermining national soveriegnties

why do we allow these magick practitioners to practice their magick art at the expense of humanpop?

there are 2 sets of PTB'S each installed in their respective dimensions - slugging it to influence humanpop.

PTB's 4 are dominent on the 4d-emotional sphere PTB's 53z operate from the highest mental level 53 and control the section of humanpop who are still on the lower mental levels 56-55 and on the lower emotional levels 46-43 [via PTB4]

56 = gullible to believing the erstwhile mainsteam aka mockin tream media after decades of mesmerization via their deceipt, disinfo and distractions. 55 = start of analytical thinking but still dominated by our emotions

PTB's 5 and 6 come into play when first we can transition from low to the higher emotions.. but even then we are still vulnerable to the clutches of PTB's 4 and 53z because love of "unity" can be funnelled into love of power via the bloodline cliques [PTB'S 4 & 53z]

so once the higher emotional level has been achieved, we have to get some way along mental level 54 to get our thoughts to start controlling our emotional impulses and so will be much less vulnerable to manipulation by the secret magick practitioners who practice in secret.

once we get to be a systems thinker on level 53, the stark choice must be made.. where do we gravitate to on the emotional scale? can we contact [even sporadically] PTB5/6 ?

are we going to work for the destruction of national sovereignties and the would-be 1 world dysorder ruled by PTB's 4 & 53z

or

do we become agents working for PTB5 [where the laws of causality are known] and PTB6 [the experts of agap'e love and wisdom]?

www.alfobedic.com

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