Good day to anons reading this,

This thread is going to be an attempt to build the Qmap by building the bridges and making the connections between different issues & threads, as well as finding out the truth about the REAL history of mankind. It’s all about digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs, digs…

Link to:

Bridges & Maps 3: https://8kun.top/qresearch/res/6687429.html

Bridges & Maps 4: https://8kun.top/qresearch/res/9207873.html

Bridges & Maps 5: https://8kun.top/qresearch/res/13198790.html

Bridges & Maps 6: https://8kun.top/qresearch/res/13718828.html

Bridges & Maps 7: https://8kun.top/qresearch/res/15012526.html

Archives of :

Bridges & Maps 1: http://archive.is/yzA4B

Bridges & Maps 2: https://archive.is/VbcWi

This is the old man,

Bridges & Maps thread 8 is a continuation of the long dig started in Bridges & Maps thread 4. I will pick up where I stopped in thread 7 for old readers. For new readers, I would be asking them to go back to thread 4 and start reading from the very first page or they will be unable to fully grasp what it’s all about since this is a long chain.

When the lights go out, I will keep on working, keep on posting as long as I can.

I thank everyone for their patience. Hope you will enjoy reading this thread.

Wishing you a good day.

God bless you all.

(Please read from the start)

From Spider Grandmother, I want to move to the Spider Web, kinda. It’s called Dream Catchers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamcatcher

“In some Native American and First Nations cultures, a dreamcatcher (Ojibwe: asabikeshiinh, the inanimate form of the word for 'spider') is a handmade willow hoop, on which is woven a net or web. It may also be decorated with sacred items such as certain feathers or beads. Traditionally, dreamcatchers are hung over a cradle or bed as protection. It originates in Anishinaabe culture as "the spider web charm" – asubakacin 'net-like' (White Earth Nation); bwaajige ngwaagan 'dream snare' (Curve Lake First Nation) – a hoop with woven string or sinew meant to replicate a spider's web, used as a protective charm for infants.

Dream catchers were adopted in the Pan-Indian Movement of the 1960s and 1970s and gained popularity as a widely marketed "Native crafts items" in the 1980s.”

>> We have 2 very important details about the “original function” of a dream catcher =

1 - it was used to protect infants.

2 – it is a replica of a spider web.

If I combine the 2 ideas together this projects that the Spider was used as a “symbol” to protect infants. But protect them from what or whom exactly? Well, if you read what I put about the Native American monsters/demons, like the Wendigo or the Horned Serpent for example, you will understand whom these Spider charms used to protect the infants from = from the pedovores. And this is an idea which keeps on re-occurring in this thread as in the Horned Serpent Clan keeps on “snatching” children or even going after pregnant mothers…and the warriors of the Light (from all the Light Clans) protect the children. Here, with the Spider web, we have a projection that the Oracles/Seers used to also protect the children from the pedovores.

“Ojibwe origin

Ethnographer Frances Densmore in 1929 recorded an Ojibwe legend according to which the "spiderwebs" protective charms originate with Spider Woman, known as Asibikaashi; who takes care of the children and the people on the land. As the Ojibwe Nation spread to the corners of North America it became difficult for Asibikaashi to reach all the children. So the mothers and grandmothers weave webs for the children, using willow hoops and sinew, or cordage made from plants. The purpose of these charms is apotropaic and not explicitly connected with dreams:

Even infants were provided with protective charms. Examples of these are the "spiderwebs" hung on the hoop of a cradle board. In old times this netting was made of nettle fiber. Two spider webs were usually hung on the hoop, and it was said that they "caught any harm that might be in the air as a spider's web catches and holds whatever comes in contact with it."

Basil Johnston, an elder from Neyaashiinigmiing, in his Ojibway Heritage (1976) gives the story of Spider (Ojibwe: asabikeshiinh, "little net maker") as a trickster figure catching Snake in his web.”

>> So at the start, dream catchers had nothing to do with dreams but about protection in general. It was used for infants and children. It first came from Spider Grandmother = the Seers protecting children. And as the last sentence in this section is clearly stating it = it used to catch Snakes in its web. This is pointing to the 2 details I’ve mentioned about the original function of the dream catcher just above. It supports and confirms my interpretation.

• Page 2 259 –

>>16650662

(Please read from the start)

“Modern uses

While Dreamcatchers continue to be used in a traditional manner in their communities and cultures of origin, a derivative form of "dreamcatchers" were also adopted into the Pan-Indian movement of the 1960s and 1970s as a symbol of unity among the various Native American cultures, or a general symbol of identification with Native American or First Nations cultures.

The name "dream catcher" was published in mainstream, non-Native media in the 1970s and became widely known as a "Native crafts item" by the 1980s, by the early 1990s "one of the most popular and marketable" ones.”

>> So it’s the modern day media whom distorted the original meaning of the dream catcher and commercialized it. Do you think this was done on purpose? Do you think there was an agenda behind this?

“In the course of becoming popular outside the Ojibwe Nation, and then outside the pan-Indian communities, various types of "dreamcatchers", many of which bear little resemblance to traditional styles, and that incorporate materials that would not be traditionally used, are now made, exhibited, and sold by New Age groups and individuals. While some people see this popularization as harmless, many Native Americans have come to see these imitation "dreamcatchers" as over-commercialized, offensively misappropriated and misused by non-Natives.”

>> This is a good example for anons to see how (((they))) disfigure, change and “hijack” something from other cultures. (((They))) did this to the purple dye, and we talked about it before in this thread. This is the same M.O. used by the Bloodlines and the Horned Serpent Clan for centuries now. It’s cultural theft which always culminate in identity theft. Here, they did it to the Native Americans and twisted it to make it go (((their))) way and it was presented to the public in a commercialized, mutated way. The real question is: Why? Why (((they))) chose this specifically = the dream catcher and not something else from the Native American culture? This should be an interesting dig if someone is interested. It should also open the eyes of the reader and help them appreciate those little treasures in the many cultures worldwide which were hijacked or stolen by the Bloodlines. Don’t let (((them))) hijack, steal, and disfigure the cultures of the others. Help to put a stop to this.

“A mounted and framed dreamcatcher is being used as a shared symbol of hope and healing by the Little Thunderbirds Drum and Dance Troupe from the Red Lake Indian Reservation in Minnesota. In recognition of the shared trauma and loss experienced, both at their school during the Red Lake shootings, and by other students who have survived similar school shootings, they have traveled to other schools to meet with students, share songs and stories, and gift them with the dreamcatcher. The dreamcatcher has now been passed from Red Lake to students at Columbine, Colorado, to Sandy Hook, Connecticut, to Marysville, Washington, to Townville, South Carolina, to Parkland, Florida.”

>> Oh my Lord! Do you understand what this means?

I’m going to stop here about the dream catcher. The idea behind it is clear.

• Page 2 260 –

>>16650679

(Please read from the start)

The last thing I want to check as a common point is a creature called: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piasa

“The Piasa (/ˈpaɪ.əsɔː/ PY-ə-saw) or Piasa Bird is a Native American mythical creature depicted in one of two murals painted by Native Americans on cliffsides above the Mississippi River. Its original location was at the end of a chain of limestone bluffs in Madison County, Illinois at present-day Alton, Illinois. The original Piasa illustration no longer exists; a newer 20th-century version, based partly on 19th-century sketches and lithographs, has been placed on a bluff in Alton, Illinois, several hundred yards upstream from its origin. The limestone rock quality is unsuited for holding an image, and the painting must be regularly restored. The original site of the painting was on lithographic limestone, which was quarried away in the late 1870s by the Mississippi Lime Company.”

>> Say what?!!!??? The original painting was “quarried” away by the Mississippi Lime Company in the late 1870s????!!!! Whom used to own Mississippi Lime Company back in the last 1870s? What are the odds it’s owned by (((them)))? And anyone reading checked the location on a map of the site where the Piasa Bird is? I did…look how close it is to Saint Louis. ^_~ This is getting very interesting.

“History

Murals

The original mural was created prior to the arrival of any European explorers in the region. The location of the image was at a river-bluff terminus of the American Bottom floodplain. It may have been an older iconograph from the large Mississippian culture city of Cahokia, which began developing about 900 CE. Cahokia was at its peak about 1200 CE, with 20,000 to 30,000 residents. It was the largest prehistoric city north of Mexico and a major chiefdom. Icons and animal pictographs such as falcons, thunderbirds, bird men, and monstrous snakes were common motifs of the Cahokia culture.”

>> It’s very clear for the reader of this thread which is which now = ThunderBirds are good, monstrous snakes are evil.

“An Alton Evening Telegraph newspaper article of May 27, 1921 stated that seven smaller painted images, carved and painted in rocks, believed to be of archaic American Indian origin, were found in the early 20th century about 1.5 miles upriver from the ancient Piasa creature's location. These pictures were authenticated in the Levis Bluffs area by George Dickson and William Turk in 1905. According to the article, four of these paintings were of "an owl, a sun circle, a squirrel, and a piece showing two birds or some kind of animals in a contest", the other three paintings were of "a great animal, perhaps a lion, and another an animal about as large as a coyote". These paintings were photographed by Professor William McAdams and were to be placed in his book Records of Ancient Races in the Mississippi Valley. These seven archaic American Indian paintings were lost in transit to the Missouri Historical Society c. 1922. Other Native American carved petroglyphs of a similar time period and region as the Piasa monster are carved into the rocks at Washington State Park in Missouri about 60 miles southwest of the current Piasa image.”

• Page 2 261 –

>>16650706

(Please read from the start)

>> I think I understand what happened here = the collectors got (((their))) hands on those carvings and murals. (((They))) took them, and what we are being told is fantasy story. (((They))) took them because of the symbolism of the carvings = it’s the 7 Sebetti clans. We have the wolf, the feline, the thunderbird, the monster is most probably a multimorph = (((their))) clan. I doubt we have a squirrel, it’s most probably something else mistaken for a squirrel since it’s damaged and unclear. Well, if it didn’t show all 7 clans, it’s showing most of them anyway. This is why all of this theater and excuses were presented for the public just so that (((they))) can remove these and get (((their))) hands on them. These carvings and murals must have some type of importance to (((them))). I don’t believe one zit the murals and carvings were “quarried” away = destroyed.

“The 1797-8 map of French explorer Nicolas De Finiels' shows the cliffs above the Piasa labeled as Hauteurs De Paillisa.

An earlier 1778 map titled "A new map of the western parts of Virginia, Pennsylvania, Maryland and North Carolina; comprehending the river Ohio, and all the rivers, which fall into it; part of the river Mississippi, the whole of the Illinois River, … Author Hutchins, Thomas, 1730-1789" clearly shows the place name "PIASAS" where the present day City of Alton is located and bounded by the Wood River to the east. This map is one of the earliest documented references for the word Piasa.

Discovery

In 1673, Father Jacques Marquette saw the painting on a limestone bluff overlooking the Mississippi River while exploring the area. He recorded the following description:

"While skirting some rocks, which by their height and length inspired awe, we saw upon one of them two painted monsters which at first made us afraid, and upon which the boldest savages dare not long rest their eyes. they are as large as a calf; they have horns on their heads like those of a deer, a horrible look, red eyes, a beard like a tiger's, a face somewhat like a man's, a body covered with scales, and so long a tail that it winds all around the body, passing above the head and going back between the legs, ending in a fish's tail. green, red, and black are the three colors composing the picture. Moreover, these two monsters are so well painted that we cannot believe that any savage is their author; for good painters in France would find it difficult to reach that place conveniently to paint them. Here is approximately the shape of these monsters, as we have faithfully copied it.”

>> I like this description = it’s of a multi-morph. That long tail is that of the scorpion and the scales are from the Serpent Clan, the beard (= powerful jaw) from the Feline and the horns from the Antelope Clan.

“The French cartographer Jean-Baptiste-Louis Franquelin compiled a map titled ″The Mississippi″ in about the year 1682, from Louis Jolliet′s description of his 1673 journey with Father Marquette. A creature similar to the underwater panther is sketched on the map east of the Missouri River and south of the Illinois River. As in Marquette′s description the animal is wingless with no resemblance to a bird.”

“Later French explorers, like St. Cosme, reported that by 1699 the series of images were badly worn due to the habits of the local Indians to "discharge their weapons" at the images as they passed. Author A. D. Jones, in his book "Illinois and the West" c. 1838, also describes the ravages of weapons (firearms) upon the images, and further refers to the paintings as being named "Piasua”.”

• Page 2 262 –

>>16650720

(Please read from the start)

“John Russell account

The monster depicted in the mural was first referred to as the "Piasa Bird" in an article published c. 1836 by John Russell of Bluffdale, Illinois. John Russell was a professor of Greek and Latin at Shurtleff College, Upper Alton, Illinois. The article was entitled "The Tradition of The Piasa" and Russell claimed the origin of the word to be from a nearby stream: "This stream is the Piasa. Its name is Indian, and signifies, in the Illini, "The Bird That Devours Men." The original Piasa Creek ran through the main ravine in downtown Alton, and was completely covered by huge drainage pipes around 1912. According to the story published by Russell, the creature depicted by the painting was a huge bird that lived in the cliffs. Russell claimed that this creature attacked and devoured people in nearby Indian villages shortly after the corpses of a war gave it a taste for human flesh. The legend claims that a local Indian chief, named Chief Ouatoga, managed to slay the monster using a plan given to him in a dream from the Great Spirit. The chief ordered his bravest warriors to hide near the entrance of the Piasa Bird's cave, which Russell also claimed to have explored. Ouatoga then acted as bait to lure the creature out into the open. As the monster flew down toward the Indian chief, his warriors slew it with a volley of poisoned arrows. Russell claimed that the mural was painted by the Indians as a commemoration of this heroic event.

Some sources report that this account was simply a story created by John Russell. In the book Records of Ancient Races in the Mississippi Valley … Chapter 2, 1887 by W. McAdams, the author says he contacted John Russell, who admitted the story was fabricated.

The bird imagery is not reported in Father Marquette's description, which makes no mention of wings. It is also possible that Marquette's description and Russell's account were both accurate for their respective times. The image may have been repainted at some point between 1673 and 1836 to revise its appearance.

When contemporary historians, folklorists, and tourism promoters are looking for a narrative description of the story behind the Piasa "Bird", they often rely on Russell's account.”

>> Russell’s account is not that certain, and yet, it’s relied on by modern day “historians” and others. We need to verify things before relying on an account, don’t we? Or it will become a mutation or a distortion, close to an urban legend, while stepping far from the original.

“The original image was the largest Native American painting ever found in North America.”

>> The Native Americans used to shoot arrows at them: this might be part of some type of ritual or habit done on purpose to repel these evil multi-morph warriors. This is indication the multi-morphs used to harm humans, so humans used to shoot arrows at them. They are all gone, but the memory stayed.

“Origin story

Esarey, Costa, Wood, et al now link the Underwater Panther to the Piasa both iconographically and phonetically to proper legend. "Payiihsa" is a "small supernatural being" and "pai'ssa" was referenced in an early explorer's list of supernatural beings. The "Payiihsa" often bear large feet with 4 or 6 toes and are referenced frequently in pottery and rock art symbolism along with the symbolism of the underwater panther. (To complicate matters, the term "Piasa" was applied in the 1970's to any symbolism matching the "protean super theme" of underwater panthers.) Costa's research in 2005 led to a Miami-Illinois Indian's tale of the malevolent twin dwarves (the "Payiihsaki"), the underwater panther, and the supernatural culture hero known as the Illinois Trickster, "Wissa Katch Akwa" who encounter a French trader. This legend of the Payiihsaki and the cliff art of underwater panther, as misinterpreted by Russell and others, is now believed by Esarey to be the origin of Russell's story of the Piasa.

The Underwater Panther origin is supported by research by Dr. Mark J. Wagner, Director, Center for Archaeological Investigations and Professor, Department of Anthropology, Southern Illinois University at Carbondale.”

>> I see the Piasa as a multi-morph warrior, while I see the Underwater Panther more like those Frankenstein, lab created monsters.

I just want to point out that it reminds me a lot of the Manticore and the Chimera, regardless if it the Piasa has wings or not. This is it for the Piasa.

• Page 2 263 –

>>16650745

(Please read from the start)

While taking a look at the Piasa, I stumbled about little treasures made of copper. They are amazing, so let’s take a look at them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippian_copper_plates

“Mississippian copper plates, or plaques, are plain and repousséd plates of beaten copper crafted by peoples of the various regional expressions of the Mississippian culture between 800 and 1600 CE. They have been found as artifacts in archaeological sites in the American Midwest and Southeast. The plates, found as far afield as Florida, Georgia, Illinois, Mississippi, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Wisconsin, were instrumental in the development of the archaeological concept known as the Southeastern Ceremonial Complex. Some of the more notable examples are representations of raptorial birds and avian-themed dancing warriors.”

>> LoL! “Avian themed dancing warriors”, they make it sound like they are talking about chickens and hens here. These are ThunderBirds warriors anons, this is why I’m taking a look. Oh and by the way, about the dates given about the Piasa and these copper artifacts, I rather not rush and believe it to be true because I know the chronology (((they))) presented to us about many things is inaccurate and incorrect. So it’s better to be “careful” for now about the dates.

“Copper in the Eastern Woodlands

Copper trade routes throughout the Eastern Woodlands were established during the Archaic period (3000 - 1000 BCE) and continued into historic times. Copper was usually imported from the Great Lakes region; however other sources of copper have been found elsewhere including in the Appalachian Mountains near the Etowah Site in Alabama.

For generations the Indigenous peoples of North America pursued copper sources and transmitted the skill of copper's manipulation and preparation as a special material for use in elite goods on to their descendants. Elites at major political and religious centers during the Mississippian period used copper ornamentation as a sign of their status by crafting the sacred material into representations connected with the Chiefly Warrior cult of the Southeastern Ceremonial Complex. These elites used a trade network that spanned most of North America to acquire exotic trade items from far away, trading their own locally manufactured elite goods and materials.”

>> There is an important detail = these copper artifacts are luxury items which the elite in the Native American Nations used. This reminds me of most of the Phoenician artifacts I’ve put for anons as evidence = they were also artifacts used by the Phoenician elites; most of them anyway – like the combs and the ivory plates on furniture etc.

• Page 2 264 –

>>16650766

(Please read from the start)

“After the collapse of the Mississippian way of life in the 1500s with the advent of European colonization, copper still retained a place in Native American religious life as a special material. Copper was traditionally regarded as sacred by many historic period Eastern tribes. Copper nuggets are included in medicine bundles among Great Lakes tribes. Among 19th century Muscogee (Creek), a group of copper plates carried along the Trail of Tears are regarded as some of the tribe's most sacred items.

Methods of Manufacture

The native copper, as well as the technique of cold working it, is believed to have come from the Great Lakes area, hundreds of miles to the north of the Cahokia polity and most other Mississippian culture sites, although the copper workshops discovered near Mound 34 at Cahokia are so far the only copper workshops found at a Mississippian culture archaeological site. Researchers at Northwestern's School of Engineering and Applied Science used an electron microscope to analyze pieces of the flat copper sheets found during excavations at the Mound 34 site at Cahokia. The researchers found that the metal had been repeatedly heated and cooled and while it was softened by the heat, had been hammered, a process known as annealing, similar to how blacksmiths work iron. They were also able to determine that the Cahokian coppersmiths had heated the copper in a wood fire to produce sufficient heat for this process. This process of heating and hammering was repeated over and over until a sheet of the desired thickness was obtained and was sufficient to work the copper into very thin sheets. Researchers have also tried different techniques to duplicate how larger pieces were manufactured. They determined that the larger pieces had not been laminated together but had most likely been riveted together with small copper knobs. Researchers were also able to determine that the artisans cut the copper into the desired shapes by bending the sheet metal back and forth until it broke in the desired location.

After the flat sheets of copper were produced, designs were then embossed into the surfaces probably with stone, bone or wooden tools. Frank Hamilton Cushing, an anthropologist working in the early 20th century, worked out a method for flattening and embossing the plates. He hammered raw nuggets of copper smooth and removed imperfections by scouring the surface with a piece of sandstone. He was then able to duplicate the avian designs by resting the sheet of copper on a rawhide pad and pressing into the surface using a piece of pointed deer antler and pressing with his chest. This produced a sharp thin line that when the plate was reversed resembled the embossed lines of the aboriginal artifacts. This process is thought to be similar in principle to the means used by Mississippian coppersmiths.

“Iconography

Avian themed plates

Avian themed plates are thought to depict aspects of the Birdman, a major figure in Mississippian iconography closely associated with warfare, ritual dancing, and the game of chunkey. Numerous examples of similar avian themed plates have been found in locations across the Midwest and Southeast, from the large cache found in Malden near the bootheel region in Dunklin County, Missouri to others from Mangum in Mississippi Spiro in Oklahoma, Etowah in Georgia, Lake Jackson Mounds in Florida and other sites in Missouri, Illinois, and Alabama.”

>> It’s obvious these are ThunderBirds.

• Page 2 265 –

>>16650767

(Please read from the start)

“Cahokia and the Birdman

Years of study by archaeologists, ethnologists and historians of artifacts of different materials found at many sites throughout the midwestern and southeastern United States has led many of these researchers to conclude that the cosmology associated with the avian imagery of this artwork originated at Cahokia (the largest Mississippian culture site, in western Illinois near St Louis, Missouri) between 1100 - 1300 CE. This cosmology was expressed as the "Braden style", a label applied to ceramics, shell pieces, stone statuary and copper artifacts all bearing the hallmarks and elements of the same sophisticated style. These pieces were exported to other centers where they were emulated by regional craftsman and became the basis of local styles, such as the "Craig style" of Spiro Mounds, the "Hightower style" of Etowah Mounds and the "Hemphill style" of Moundville.”

>> When I was taking a look with fellow anons at St. Louis, I didn’t understand why the Cahokia mounds were “taken out”. But now I do. This is about the Sebetti clans. This is the reason why the geographical location of St Louis is so precious to the Bloodlines, including Lewis Cass whom I believe is none other than Louis XVII.

“Avian imagery occupied a central place in Cahokian iconography, with examples including an incised sandstone tablet with a birdman excavated from Monks Mound and an elaborate elite personage burial in Mound 72 with thousands of shell beads arranged in the shape of a bird.”

>> This means that the dominant deity worshiped were the ThunderBirds; this is also indicating that the people living in the Cahokian culture, were most probably direct descendants of these ThunderBirds. Usually, the descendants wear items with heraldic symbols of their ancestors or clan, like seal rings, or jewelry, or patterns on clothing etc. I’ve noticed a pattern: some of the places which are established by ThunderBirds and their descendants rule are slowly taken over from the inside by the Horned Serpent Clan, hundreds/ thousands of years later. It’s like (((they))) cannot stand to see a place ruled by the descendants of the ThunderBirds, and (((they))) gotta mess it up or make it (((theirs))).

“Although no copper plates other than some small fragments have ever been found at Cahokia, it is the only Mississippian culture site to date where a copper workshop has been located by archaeologists. Excavations of the copper workshops at Mound 34, (a small mound located on the Ramey Plaza east of Monks Mound) indicate copper was worked there. The area contains the remains of three tree stumps thought to have been used to hold anvil stones used for beating out the flattened sheets of copper. However, despite the lack of copper plates, one copper artifact has been found at the site. A copper-covered wooden mace 6.3 centimeters (2.5 in) by 2.5 centimeters (0.98 in) thought to have been part of a headdress was found during surface collections at Cahokia. Several other copper ornaments have been found in nearby locations.”

>> It’s obvious the Mississippi river has acted like a trade and a chronological spine for the Cahokia culture. It helped spread it and facilitated exchange of goods.

• Page 2 266 –

>>16650783

(Please read from the start)

“Other themes

Many of the hundreds of plates found have not been specifically avian themed and come in a variety of other shapes. These include embossed geometric designs, weeping eye motifs, bi-lobed arrow motif headdresses, head shapes with headresses, and plain sheets. The unique "Upper Bluff Lake Dancing Birdmen" plate was found in the same burial in Union County, Illinois as a Malden style avian plate. Several related examples of bi-lobed arrow headdresses have been found at the Etowah Site and the Moundville Site. A variety of non-avian themed plates were found at the Spiro site. These finds include copper feather and flame-like shapes believed to have been part of headdresses, a human head cutout wearing similar "feathers", 13 inches (33 cm) square sheets with Forked Eye motifs and concentric circle designs, and several copper covered wooden plaques also with Forked Eye motifs and circles

Known locations

Arkansas plates

A number of plates have been found in various sites in eastern Arkansas. At least three of the Arkansas examples (Rose Mound, Scott Place, and Clay Hill) and two others (a 32.6 centimeters (12.8 in) found in a Dallas Phase burial at the Henry Farm Site (40 LO 53) in Loudon County, Tennessee in 1975 and a specimen unexamined by archaeologists thought to come either from the Neeley's Ferry (3 CS 24) or Rose Mound sites in Cross County) have stylistic similarities that indicate they may have all been made by the same artist. Four of the five were found in the St. Francis River Valley area of Arkansas. Researchers think the five plates may represent a composite creature that is part snake and part hawk as the shape of the tail feathers resemble a rattlesnakes' rattle or that the design may represent a hawk in the act of swallowing a snake.”

>> The river acts like the spine, either for trade or chronology. As for the hawk swallowing a snake = ThunderBird defeating a Horned Serpent. If it’s a composite animal, then it’s a multi-morph. But if the Cahokia people are ThunderBird Clan (or at least their direct descendants) then, I say it’s a hawk swallowing a snake.

“A copper plate found at the Clay Hill Site (3 LE 11) in Lee County, Arkansas has the same chest region design and long narrow shape and distinctive tail feathers as the Scott Site and Rose Mound examples. Although fragmented it is approximately 14 inches (36 cm) in length. It was recorded to be in a private collection in 1978 but has not been seen since. The plate was found in an Armorel Phase burial that also contained a Clarksdale bell, an item of European manufacture that is a hallmark of the 1541 Hernando de Soto excursion through the southeast. This does not date the era for the production of the plate though as such items were often kept as heirlooms for long periods, even many generations, before they ended up becoming grave goods.

In 1910 Clarence Bloomfield Moore found a stylized hawk or eagle plate while excavating graves at the Rose Mound Site (3 CS 27) in Cross County, Arkansas. The plate was 16.25 inches (41.3 cm) and remarkably well preserved, missing only the tip of one wing. The plate is not embossed but merely a shape cut from a flat copper sheet.”

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>>16650791

(Please read from the start)

“In the 1970s a copper bird 28 centimeters (11 in) in length was found by looters at the Scott Site (3 MS 24), also known as Big Lake Bridge, in Mississippi County, Arkansas. The specimen was located at the back of the head of an extended adult burial, and may have been bent over the top of the head. Eight plain pottery vessels grave good vessels were found with it.”

>> For those whom are interested, you can check out if the Bloodlines or the Free Masons were interested in the locations mentioned here or if (((they))) built something like a lodge or a temple or whatever. If it turns out to be the case, then you will know that (((they))) have tried to hijack and desecrate a holy place which used to belong to the ThunderBird Clan; exactly like what the Romans did to the Phoenician temples. Try to go back all the way till the 1800s while checking this. There is a possibility there was something, but it was demolished a century later and something else was built in its place. Don’t forget (((they))) like to desecrate and hijack = claim as (((their))) own what was initial for the Light.

“A possible partial avian style plate was found at the Magness Site (3 IN 8) in Independence County, Arkansas along with several engraved shell cups. The plate is a typical head portion with the forked eye, earspool, and elaborate headdress and hairdo known from other examples. As the lower portion of the plate is missing it is impossible to tell if the figure is a dancer or a human headed bird like the Wulfing A plate.

A 8 inches (20 cm) avian themed plate very similar to the Wulfing Plates copper plate was discovered at the Toul Creek Site in Baxter County, Arkansas by several local farmers. The plate was located in the chest area of an extended adult who was also wearing the two limestone ear spools. Other grave goods found in the burial included a marine shell dipper and a 6 inches (15 cm) chert knife. Its whereabouts are currently unknown.”

>> LoL! This is a good joke: “the whereabouts of the chert knife are “currently” unknown”. Yeah, right! If I look into (((their))) “private” collections, will I find it in there? What do you think anons?

“Etowah and the Rogan plates

The Rogan plates were discovered in a stone box grave within Mound C at the Etowah Site by John P. Rogan in the 1880s. Several are very similar to plates later found at Lake Jackson Mounds, and it is believed that the Lake Jackson plates came from Etowah. The designs of the plates are in the Classic Braden style from the Cahokian area, and it is generally thought that some of the plates were manufactured at Cahokia before ending up at sites in the Southeast. The two Rogan plates were interred as a pair and are very similar to one another. The first is approximately 20 inches (51 cm) and the second 16 inches (41 cm). Holes in the plates suggest they were once hung as a decoration. Other plates were found by Warren K. Moorehead at the Etowah site in excavations during the mid-1920s. The other plates are in a slightly different style and indicate that local artisans had begun production of their own copper plates in emulation of the Braden style. These plates, along with artifacts from Spiro and Moundville Archaeological Site were instrumental in the development of the archaeological concept of the S.E.C.C.”

>> It’s clear the copper plates were “produced” or should I say manufactured at Cahokia, then transported to the other side, using the river as a means to get there. This is why I say the river is a trade and a chronological spine.

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>>16650817

(Please read from the start)

“Florida plates

Although at the periphery of the Mississippian world, Florida has been the site of the discovery many S.E.C.C. associated copper artworks. Archaeologists believe that this is because of the busycon shell trade, the shells being a valuable ritual and high status trade good to Mississippian elites. It has even been proposed that the Fort Walton culture founders of the Lake Jackson Mounds Site moved east and founded the settlement in approximately 1100 CE to strategically position themselves in this trade network. Lake Jackson trade for copper pieces seems to have taken place almost exclusively with the Etowah polity of north central Georgia. When Mound 3 at the site was excavated it yielded fourteen copper plates, deposited in the burial mound sometime between 1300—1500 CE. The so-called "Copper Solar Ogee Deity," a 21 inches (53 cm) high repoussé copper plate, depicts the profile of a dancing winged figure, wielding a ceremonial mace in its right hand and a severed head in the left. The extended, curling nose resembles a proboscis and resembles another S.E.C.C. motif, the long-nosed god maskette. The figures elaborate headdress includes a bi-lobed arrow motif and, at the top of the plate, an ogee motif surrounded by a chambered circle. Some art historians have argued that this plate and one of the Rogan plates may represent a female or "Birdwoman" because the breast on the figure protrudes slightly more than it does on other examples, while others have argued that the plate may represent a third gender or "two-spirit" tradition. After the collapse of the Etowah polity in approximately 1375 trade continued for the Lake Jackson peoples, albeit now with peoples located in the northern Georgia and eastern Tennessee area. No longer able to get the elaborate copper plates from Etowah, a local style developed, producing a new style of such as that depicted on the "Elder Birdman" plate, thought to represent the merger of the Birdman corpus with a local solar deity.”

>> Personally, I don’t believe in ANY third gender or whatever it’s called. This is a ThunderBid with what looks like a SHINE or a Solar Disc on top of his head. It could very well be the Light shining from him just like the ones we’ve seen before in this thread either from the Andean region and from Mesopotamia = where a Sebetti ruler was represented with light rays coming out from his head. The one from Mesopotamia is where we see the Evil One stabbing the King of kings. So this place talked about here, might represent the Sebetti ruler of the ThunderBirds which us old men think is the founding father of the Phoenicians = the Crown Prince of Atlantis.

“Further east and south into Florida were non-Mississippian culture peoples who were involved in long-distance trade of local high status items such as busycon shells for gorgets and yaupon holly for the black drink. The Mill Cove Complex is a St. Johns culture site in Duval County, Florida with two sand burial mounds, one platform mound shaped and associated village habitation areas. Clarence Bloomfield Moore excavated the mounds in 1894 and found numerous copper grave goods, including two copper long-nosed god maskettes and 11 copper plates. The one plate found in the Shields Mound was plain, but several of the other 10 found in the Grant Mound were decorated with an oval central boss and ringed with an oval embossed or beaded line. They measured 10 centimeters (3.9 in)-15 centimeters (5.9 in) to 5 centimeters (2.0 in)-10 centimeters (3.9 in). They had perforated holes for hanging. Archaeologists speculate they were used either for gorgets or headdress ornaments. Analysis of the metal in the plaques has connected them to locations in the Great Lakes region, Wisconsin and the Appalachian Mountains.”

>> These copper goods/plates came a long way, didn’t they? This can be explained once more by the Mississippi river which was like a trade spine. After that, at some point, and in some way, it reached Florida.

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>>16650828

(Please read from the start)

“A little further down the Atlantic coast was the Mount Royal Mound (8 PU 35), a site occupied on and off since 4000 BCE, and during the historic period a Timucua settlement. Construction of the mound at Mount Royal, began in approximately 1050 CE. In 1893 and 1894, Clarence B. Moore excavated the mound. Among the copper ornaments he disinterred, Moore discovered a copper breast-place with a "forked eye and blade image", and another plate with concentric circles and lines. The first plate was almost 11 inches (280 mm) square and the second plate was 10.5 inches (270 mm) square.

Located in central Florida, the Old Okahumpka Site (8 LA 57) is a now destroyed burial mound in Lake County, Florida near the modern town of Okahumpka. The site was excavated by Clarence B. Moore in the 1890s. During his excavation he found a burial associated plate measuring 7.1 centimeters (2.8 in) wide by 15.2 centimeters (6.0 in) in length and depicting the lower portion of a dancing figure wearing a sash, kilt, cuffed moccasins, and holding a knife. The design is almost identical to two examples known from Spiro and a site in Jackson County, Alabama, although of the three it is the only one to show a figure wielding a knife. Archaeologists estimate the plate was deposited in the mound sometime between 1100 and 1300 CE. The plate is now part of the collection of the National Museum of the American Indian.

From an unknown location on the west coast of central Florida comes the Wilcox plate, a partial avian themed copper plate showing the middle section details of scalloped wings, tail feathers and a raptors leg and claw in the Malden style very similar to the Wulfing plates. It was discovered somewhere near Waldo, Florida in Levy County in the 1880s, where it was purchased from a local doctor by Joseph Wilcox for the Academy of Natural Sciences of Philadelphia. It has been part of the collection of the University of Pennsylvania Museum of Archaeology and Anthropology since the mid-1930s.

Illinois plates

Outside of Cahokia, Illinois has seen the discovery of many Mississippian culture copper items including copper maces, ear spools, several avian plates, a wooden copper covered mask (known as the Emmons mask), and headdress pieces. Three copper plates have been found, one of them been identified as being from the same workshop as the Wulfing plates and others as having stylistic similarities with the Wulfing, Spiro and Etowah plates.

The Edwards falcon plate is a 37.8 centimeters (14.9 in) by 11.3 centimeters (4.4 in) copper avian plate found at the Material Service Quarry Site in La Salle County, Illinois. Before it was deposited as a grave good it had its head riveted on in the reverse position. It is one of several plates found in Illinois believed to have been made by the same workshop as the Malden plates.

The Peoria Falcon is a unique avian plate found in 1856 on the shore of Peoria Lake. It is a 7 inches (18 cm) by 9 inches (23 cm) copper plate depicting a naturalistic peregrine falcon. It is part of the collection of the National Museum of Natural History, but it is on long-term loan to the Lakeview Museum of Arts and Sciences in Peoria, Illinois where it is on display.”

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>>16650833

(Please read from the start)

“The Upper Bluff Lake plates are two plates found at the Saddle Site (11U284) in Union County, Illinois in the 1880s, in the same stone box grave. One of the plates is avian themed and the other a unique double birdman design, but still within the corpus of the S.E.C.C. The Upper Bluff Lake falcon plate is a 25.7 centimeters (10.1 in) by 8.25 centimeters (3.25 in) avian themed Wulfing style plate. It has a mostly intact tail, which the Malden plates do not, and has helped archaeologists understand what the tails of the other pieces would have looked like. The Dancing Figures plate is a rectangular 15.5 centimeters (6.1 in) by 16.5 centimeters (6.5 in) plate depicting two Birdman figures holding ceremonial chipped flint maces, possibly dancing, and shielding themselves from a possible liquid or ropelike motif falling from the top center of the plate. Stylistically the Dancers plate has been linked to the Classic Braden style associated with Cahokia and it bears stylistic similarities to Craig A style shell objects found at the Spiro site. Both the plates date from 1100 to 1300 CE. Both of the Upper Bluff Lake plates are now in the collection of the National Museum of Natural History.

“Malden plates or the Wulfing cache

The plates of the Wulfing cache, named after an early owner, were discovered by a farmer named Ray Groomes while plowing a field south of Malden in Dunklin County, Missouri in 1906. The eight plates, made in the Late Braden style associated with Cahokia, are thought to date to the late 13th or early 14th century. The Wulfing plates depict raptors and one bird-human hybrids, ranging human heads to raptor's heads to double-headed raptors on stylized bird's bodies, with naturalistic bird's claws. The plates were found buried in a field with no known local mounds or village sites. They had been considerably used prior to their burial, as each plates shows multiple episodes of aboriginal repair work including patch repairs and riveted cracks.

The eight plates are designated Plates A-H. Plate A, the only anthropomorphic human headed avian in the Wulfing cache, measures 30 centimeters (12 in) in length by 13.5 centimeters (5.3 in) in width and weighs 84 grams (3.0 oz).

Many similar plates found in other states are now believed to have come from the same workshop, if not the same artist, as the Wulfing cache. The sites of the discovery of these other plates span the United States from central Florida to northern Illinois to Oklahoma, and include the Upper Bluff Lake falcon plate, the Toul Creek plate, the Reed Mound plate, the Edwards plate, and the Wilcox plate, as well as showing stylistic links to plates found in burials at Etowah and Spiro. “

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>>16650842

(Please read from the start)

“Spiro plates

Spiro Mounds is a Caddoan Mississippian culture archaeological site located in present-day LeFlore County, Oklahoma. In the 1930s the only burial mound at the site, the Craig Mound, was looted by locals who used dynamite on the mound to gain access to its interior. Once inside the 10 feet (3.0 m) high and 15 feet (4.6 m) wide cavity the looters discovered almost perfectly preserved fragile artifacts made of wood, conch shell, fabric of vegetal and animal fibers, lace, fur, feathers and copper. The Great Mortuary, as the hollow interior has since become known to archaeologists, was a burial structure for Spiro's rulers. It was created as a circle of sacred cedar posts sunk in the ground and angled together at the top like a tipi. The cone-shaped chamber was covered with layers of earth to create the mound, and it never collapsed. Minerals percolating through the mound hardened the chamber's log walls, making them resistant to decay and shielding the perishable artifacts inside from direct contact with the earth. No other Mississippian mound has been found with such a hollow space inside it or with such large and distinctive collection of preserved artifacts. Among the grave goods were numerous copper pieces, including ear-spools, celts, copper sheathed wooden knives and 265 repoussé plates. One of the more famous of these copper plates depicts a man's head, possibly severed, in profile, with a Forked Eye motif, an ear-spool, and hair styled into an occipital hair knot from which a single feather projects. The plate measures 24 centimeters (9.4 in) by 17.4 centimeters (6.9 in). Another of the plates is the avian themed "naturalistic hawk cutout", which measures 11.5 inches (29 cm) in width. The plate shows stylistic similarities with the Wulfing plates. Some of the other repoussé copper pieces found include eight examples of copper "feathers" that were worn as hair ornaments. Many of the plates found at Spiro are in the "Braden Style" and are thought by archaeologists to have been imported from Cahokia.”

>> Leave it to grave looters to use dynamite and damage the site. When such things happen, “silent” information is lost forever. The thirst for wealth = finding gold and gemstones (imagination in their minds) drives people to destroy the site, which might have contained “silent” information, sometimes, much valuable than gold.

“Other locations

Besides the Spiro site, four other plates have been found during excavations at Caddoan Mississippian sites. The Reed Mound in Oklahoma produced a fragmentary Malden style plate thought to be from the same workshop as the Wulfing set. Three other plates were found at the Gahagan Mounds Site in Red River Parish, Louisiana in the early 20th century, along with numerous other copper objects including copper covered ear spools and a matched set of large copper long-nosed god maskettes. The plates were large rectangular plaques embossed with concentric circles or squares and are similar to the Mount Royal plates from Florida. A matching pair of large thin sheet copper cutout human hands were also found at Gahagan.”

• Page 2 272 –

>>16650850

(Please read from the start)

“Two plates were found in a Plaquemine culture site in Mississippi. Three fragments of a repoussé plate with an avian design were found in a burial in the Mangum Mound Site in Claiborne County, Mississippi in 1936 by a farmer who owned the site. When pieced together the plate was about 12 inches (30 cm) in width and weighed a total of 53 grams (1.9 oz). The plate had been reinforced and riveted in several places to protect weak spots in the metal. A second plate was found during archaeological excavations at the site in 1963. The Mangum plates stylistically resemble the Rogan plates from Etowah.

Other copper items

Besides the repoussé copper plates, Mississippian people also created copper axes, knives, gorgets, beads, and fishhooks, as well as wooden beads and ear spools covered in copper. Long-nosed god maskettes, a special kind of ear ornamentation, are sometimes found made of copper. Copper examples have been found at the Gahagan Mounds Site in Louisiana and at the Grant Mound in Florida, each of which produced two of the earpieces. Several copper covered cedar knives were found in the Great Mortuary mound at Spiro. Several matching pairs were found, although of slightly differing lengths, ranging up to 17 inches (43 cm) long. One set had Weeping eye motifs repousséd into the copper sheathing. A variety of copper and copper covered items have been found at the Moundville Archaeological Site in Alabama, although no copper plates have been found there. Moundville copper artifacts generally consist of copper covered ear spools and tear drop shaped pendants thought to represent trophy scalps. A unique copper piece was discovered at the Emmons Cemetery Site in Fulton County, Illinois. It is a wooden 11.9 centimeters (4.7 in) by 9.9 centimeters (3.9 in) by 5.5 centimeters (2.2 in) copper covered object shaped like a human face with a crenelated crown-like decoration on its forehead. It resembles the small human face that makes up part of the headdress of Malden plate A (including the distinctive crenelated crown-like structure) and archaeologists believe it was in fact part of a real headdress.”

>> The notables:

1 – These copper artifacts were produced by Native Anmericans whom were part/descendants of the ThunderBird Clan or at least worshiped the ThunderBirds.

2 – The Mississippi river played the role as a conduct pipe or as I like to call it a trade and chronological spine.

3 – The copper artifacts were produced on an “industrial” scale and sold out as luxury products.

4 – The Bloodlines got their hands on the artifacts and kinda “hijacked” the sites because (((they))) recognized it was a site of the ThunderBird Clan descendants/members.

• Page 2 273 –

>>16650851

(Please read from the start)

It’s time to take a look at the Cahokia culture and the mounds. I’ve always been interested in them since we did that dig on St Louis with fellow anons. Now I understand why (((they))) were interested in the site, the mounds and why St Louis is so important for (((them))) = the Cahokia mounds and the geographic location is connected to the ThunderBird Clan. I didn’t reach to this conclusion because I found it written in some source or in Wikipedia. I’ve reached it because of the archaeological artifacts pointing in that direction and I want to add that I’ve reached this conclusion because of the behavior and interest of the Bloodlines to the site and the artifacts. I’ve combined both.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahokia

“The Cahokia Mounds State Historic Site /kəˈhoʊkiə/ (11 MS 2) is the site of a pre-Columbian Native American city (which existed c. 1050–1350 CE) directly across the Mississippi River from modern St. Louis, Missouri. This historic park lies in south-western Illinois between East St. Louis and Collinsville. The park covers 2,200 acres (890 ha), or about 3.5 square miles (9 km2), and contains about 80 mounds, but the ancient city was much larger. At its apex around 1100 CE, the city covered about 6 square miles (16 km2) and included about 120 manmade earthen mounds in a wide range of sizes, shapes, and functions. At the apex of its population, Cahokia may have briefly exceeded contemporaneous London, which at that time was approximately 14,000–18,000.

Cahokia was the largest and most influential urban settlement of the Mississippian culture, which developed advanced societies across much of what is now the central and southeastern United States, beginning more than 1,000 years before European contact. Today, the Cahokia Mounds are considered to be the largest and most complex archaeological site north of the great pre-Columbian cities in Mexico.

Cahokia Mounds is a National Historic Landmark and a designated site for state protection. It is also one of the 24 UNESCO World Heritage Sites within the United States. The largest prehistoric earthen construction in the Americas north of Mexico, the site is open to the public and administered by the Illinois Historic Preservation Division and supported by the Cahokia Mounds Museum Society. In celebration of the 2018 Illinois state bicentennial, the Cahokia Mounds were selected as one of the Illinois 200 Great Places by the American Institute of Architects Illinois component (AIA Illinois). It was recognized by USA Today Travel magazine, as one of the selections for 'Illinois 25 Must See Places'.

History

Development (9th and 10th centuries)

Although some evidence exists of occupation during the Late Archaic period (around 1200 BCE) in and around the site, Cahokia as it is now defined was settled around 600 CE during the Late Woodland period. Mound building at this location began with the emergent Mississippian cultural period, about the 9th century CE. The inhabitants left no written records beyond symbols on pottery, shell, copper, wood, and stone, but the elaborately planned community, woodhenge, mounds, and burials reveal a complex and sophisticated society.”

>> Don’t trust the dates blindly. Dates everywhere need to be re-evaluated.

• Page 2 274 –

>>16650854

(Please read from the start)

“The city's complex construction of earthen mounds required digging, excavation and transportation by hand using woven baskets. Construction made use of 55 million cubic feet (1.6 million cubic meters) of earth, and much of the work was accomplished over a matter of decades. Its highly planned large, flat, ceremonial plazas, sited around the mounds, with homes for thousands connected by laid out pathways and courtyards, suggest the location served as a central religious pilgrimage city.”

>> It’s getting clearer and clearer why the Bloodlines were interested in the site and wanted to get (((their))) dirty hands on the artifacts. This site seem to be a religious site of the ThunderBirds = the Light - and the chances are high, its location was not randomly chosen by the ThunderBirds but it was special = as in it could related to some sort of energy point on earth or something like that. I’m no expert on such things, so I’m saying this is a possibility. Think about it a bit logically: there is no way the Bloodlines would be interested in a site like this one if it didn’t related to the Light or to Divine power = (((they))) want to take that and make it (((theirs))); not forgetting (((they))) like to desecrate Holy places of the Light too.

“The city's original name is unknown. The mounds were later named after the Cahokia tribe, a historic Illiniwek people living in the area when the first French explorers arrived in the 17th century. As this was centuries after Cahokia was abandoned by its original inhabitants, the Cahokia tribe was not necessarily descended from the earlier Mississippian-era people. Most likely, multiple indigenous ethnic groups settled in the Cahokia Mounds area during the time of the city's apex.”

>> It’s good this is mentioned because I thought it was the Cahokia tribe which was settled here from the get go. That was wrong of me. So it turned out this site was built long ago by “someone else” but was abandoned at some later date; then the Cahokia tribe lived in the area.

“Historian Daniel Richter notes that the apex of the city occurred during the Medieval Warming Period. This period appears to have fostered an agricultural revolution in upper North America, as the three-fold crops of maize, beans (legumes), and gourds (squash) were developed and adapted or bred to the temperate climates of the north from their origins in Mesoamerica. Richter also notes that Cahokia's advanced development coincided with the development in the Southwest of the Chaco Canyon society, which also produced large-scale works in an apparent socially stratified society. The decline of the city coincides with the Little Ice Age, although by then, the three-fold agriculture remained well-established throughout temperate North America.

Rise and peak (11th and 12th centuries)

Cahokia became the most important center for the Mississippian culture. This culture was expressed in settlements that ranged along major waterways across what is now the Midwest, Eastern, and Southeastern United States. Cahokia was located in a strategic position near the confluence of the Mississippi, Missouri, and Illinois rivers. It maintained trade links with communities as far away as the Great Lakes to the north and the Gulf Coast to the south, trading in such exotic items as copper, Mill Creek chert, and whelk shells.”

>> The ThunderBirds always pick a good location or a strategic location for their sites. They never pick them randomly. We found out about this when checking out the Phoenician sites. It’s like they study the geography well and pick the best location in an area to build a site on.

• Page 2 275 –

>>16650855

(Please read from the start)

“Mill Creek chert, most notably, was used in the production of hoes, a high demand tool for farmers around Cahokia and other Mississippian centers. Cahokia's control of the manufacture and distribution of these hand tools was an important economic activity that allowed the city to thrive. Mississippian culture pottery and stone tools in the Cahokian style were found at the Silvernale site near Red Wing, Minnesota, and materials and trade goods from Pennsylvania, the Gulf Coast, and Lake Superior have been excavated at Cahokia. Bartering, not money, was used in trade.”

>> Battered metals were used for exchange in midway between the barter system and the coinage system way of payment. It’s like a transition stage between the 2. This existed worldwide and not just here. Each area reached it at a different period in History.

“At the high point of its development, Cahokia was the largest urban center north of the great Mesoamerican cities in Mexico and Central America. Home to about 1,000 people before circa 1050, its population grew rapidly after that date. According to a 2007 study in Quaternary Science Reviews, "Between AD 1050 and 1100, Cahokia's population increased from between 1,400 and 2,800 people to between 10,200 and 15,300 people". An estimate that applies only to a 1.8-square-kilometre (0.69 sq mi) high-density central occupation area. Archaeologists estimate the city's population at between 6,000 and 40,000 at its peak, with more people living in outlying farming villages that supplied the main urban center.

As a result of archeological excavations in the early 21st century, new residential areas were found to the west of Cahokia; this discovery increased estimates of historic area population. If the highest population estimates are correct, Cahokia was larger than any subsequent city in the United States until the 1780s, when Philadelphia's population grew beyond 40,000. Moreover, according to some population estimates, the population of 13th-century Cahokia was equal to or larger than the population of 13th-century London.

One of the major problems that large centers like Cahokia faced was keeping a steady supply of food. A related problem was waste disposal for the dense population, and Cahokia is believed to have become unhealthy from polluted waterways. Because it was such an unhealthy place to live, Snow believes that the town had to rely on social and political attractions to bring in a steady supply of new immigrants; otherwise, the town's death rate would have caused it to be abandoned earlier.

Decline (13th and 14th centuries)

The population of Cahokia began to decline during the 13th century, and the site was eventually abandoned by around 1350. Scholars have proposed environmental factors, such as environmental degradation through overhunting, deforestation and pollution, and climatic changes, such as increased flooding and droughts, as explanations for abandonment of the site. However, more recent research suggests that there is no evidence of human-caused erosion or flooding at Cahokia.

Political and economic problems may also have contributed to the community's decline. It is likely that social and environmental factors combined to produce the conditions that led people to leave Cahokia.”

• Page 2 276 –

>>16650856

(Please read from the start)

“Another possible cause is invasion by outside peoples, though the only evidence of warfare found are the defensive wooden stockade and watchtowers that enclosed Cahokia's main ceremonial precinct. There is no other evidence for warfare, so the palisade may have been more for ritual or formal separation than for military purposes. Diseases transmitted among the large, dense urban population are another possible cause of decline. Many theories since the late 20th century propose conquest-induced political collapse as the primary reason for Cahokia's abandonment.”

>> Having a palisade doesn’t necessarily means it was put there for war. Sometimes it’s put to keep something or someone OUT and control access to the site. There were a lot of “wild” animals, like wolves, bears, panthers etc. so having a palisade would contribute to protect the site from such animals. Also, it made it difficult for thieves and other persons with ill intentions of the sort to get into the place easily, or without being detected. The palisade can slow down people with ill intent.

“Together with these factors, researchers found evidence in 2015 of major floods at Cahokia, so severe as to flood dwelling places. Analysis of sediment from beneath Horseshoe Lake has revealed that two major floods occurred in the period of settlement at Cahokia, in roughly 1100–1260 and 1340–1460.”

>> As mentioned above, there are many possibilities as to why this site was abandoned. It could also be a bit of all the mentioned above, as in many factors played a role, one coming after the other to cause the people to abandon this site and go live somewhere else.

“Notable features

The original site contained 120 earthen mounds over an area of 6 square miles (16 km2), of which 80 remain today. To achieve that, thousands of workers over decades moved more than an estimated 55 million cubic feet (1,600,000 m3) of earth in woven baskets to create this network of mounds and community plazas. Monks Mound, for example, covers 14 acres (5.7 ha), rises 100 ft (30 m), and was topped by a massive 5,000 sq ft (460 m2) building another 50 ft (15 m) high.

Monks Mound

Monks Mound is the largest structure and central focus of the city: a massive platform mound with four terraces, 10 stories tall, it is the largest man-made earthen mound north of Mexico. Facing south, it is 100 ft (30 m) high, 951 ft (290 m) long, 836 ft (255 m) wide and covers 13.8 acres (5.6 ha). It contains about 814,000 cu yd (622,000 m3) of earth. The mound was built higher and wider over the course of several centuries, through as many as 10 separate construction episodes, as the mound was built taller and the terraces and apron were added.”

• Page 2 277–

>>16650857

(Please read from the start)

“Monks Mounds was named for the community of Trappist monks who resided there for a short time, after Euroamericans settled in the area. Excavation on the top of Monks Mound has revealed evidence of a large building, likely a temple or the residence of the paramount chief, which would have been seen throughout the city. This building was about 105 ft (32 m) long and 48 feet (15 m) wide, and could have been as much as 50 ft (15 m) high. It was about 5,000 sq ft (460 m2).

The east and northwest sides of Monks Mound were twice excavated in August 2007 during an attempt to avoid erosion due to slumping. These areas were repaired to preserve the mound.”

>> I had a strange thought when I read this: could it be a ThunderBird warrior resided/lived here as the first ruler of this site? Then, his direct bloodline must have lived in this palace/residence spot. It’s just a thought.

“Urban landscape

Early in its history, Cahokia underwent a massive construction boom. Along with the early phase of Monks Mound, an overarching urban layout was established at the site. It was built with a symbolic quadripartite worldview and oriented toward the four cardinal directions with the main east-west and north-south axes defined with Monks Mound near its center point. Four large plazas were established to the east, west, north, and south of Monks Mound.

To the south of Monks Mound is the Grand Plaza, a large area that covered roughly 50 acres (20 ha) and measured over 1,600 ft (490 m) in length by over 900 ft (270 m) in width. Researchers originally thought the flat, open terrain in this area reflected Cahokia's location on the Mississippi's alluvial flood plain, but instead soil studies have shown that the landscape was originally undulating ridge and swale topography. In one of the earliest large-scale construction projects, the site had been expertly and deliberately leveled and filled by the city's inhabitants. It is part of the sophisticated engineering displayed throughout the site. It was used for large ceremonies and gatherings, as well as for ritual games, such as chunkey. The game was played by rolling a disc-shaped chunky stone across the field. The men would throw spears where they thought the chunky stone would land. The game required a great deal of judgment and aim.”

>> This is not the first time we see in this thread that the terrain was “leveled” before the construction of the site started. In fact, when we study the sites built by the survivors of the Flood or should I say if we study the sites built by the “early” people, we will notice this is a common point = leveling and “mastering” the terrain. We mustn’t forget that most of these same sites were also oriented and/or had symmetry, parallelism and other feathers of the sort. Most, if not all of the Phoenician sites I’ve showed anons are in line with these “construction” methods. We also saw the same things with many sites in the Andean Region, like Tiwanaku and with Caral/Norte Chico, not to forget other sites as well like Mount Nemrut, Teotihuacan and even the petroforms from the Native Americans along with the Petroglyphs in the Andean Region (mostly). These “construction” methods and characteristics are common to all the EARLY civilizations and cultures we saw so far in this thread.

Another notable point in this paragraph is the “sport” activity mentioned here. We know that Amrit had a “stadium” older than those of Greece and we also know that games (unfortunately brutal ones) were also played in Mesoamerica. This might be projecting the type of “sports” which used to be played before the Cataclysm, as this is a common point to SOME of the civilizations and cultures we’ve seen so far in this thread.

• Page 2 278 –

>>16650859

(Please read from the start)

“The major ceremonial north-south 'axis' connects the main precinct with the large ridgetop mortuary mound to its south now known as the Rattlesnake Mound (Mound 66). The feature, named the Rattlesnake Causeway by archaeologists, was an elevated embankment about 18 metres (59 ft) wide, roughly 800 metres (2,600 ft) in length and varies in height from 0.5 metres (1.6 ft) to almost 1.3 metres (4.3 ft) as it traverses a low swampy area to the south of the Grand Plaza. It is aligned 5° east of north, a direction thought to mimic the maximum southern moon rise of 5° west of north, albeit in reverse. This is thought to have had symbolic associations to the builders in connection with their lunar maize goddess of the underworld. This is further strengthened by its close proximity to the ridgetop mortuary Mound 72, the underworld connotations of the low water-filled area the causeway traversed, and its terminus at the mortuary complex at the Rattlesnake Mound. The causeway itself may have been seen as a symbolic "Path of Souls".”

>> Well, now is it really a coincidence that Mound 66 happens to be named Rattlesnake Mount? I’m no expert of Native American cultures or history, so I’m really scratching my head about this. Why would the modern name archaeologists call Mound 66 the Rattlesnake Moound?

Also, I found the information is rather interesting on Mound 72, mostly having “underworld connotations”. How many co-conspirators Seth (from Ancient Egyptian mythology) had again? = 72 co-conspirators. So once again, I’m scratching my head, wondering if this is all a coincidence and if I’m seeing too much into this.

“The high-status central district of Cahokia was surrounded by a 2-mi-long palisade that was equipped with protective bastions. A later addition to the site, when the palisade was constructed, it cut through and separated some pre-existing neighborhoods. Archaeologists found evidence of the stockade during excavation of the area and indications that it was rebuilt several times. Its bastions showed that it was mainly built for defensive purposes.

Beyond Monks Mound, as many as 120 more mounds stood at varying distances from the city center. To date, 109 mounds have been located, 68 of which are in the park area. The mounds are divided into three different types: platform, conical, and ridge-top. Each appeared to have had its own meaning and function. In general terms, the city center seems to have been laid out in a diamond-shaped pattern about 1 mi (1.6 km) from end to end, while the entire city is 5 mi (8.0 km) across from east to west.”

>> Sometimes when I see this many Mounds or Tells in one area, I cannot help but feel like the people living here constructed them like this on purpose maybe because they were still afraid of the Flood water coming back up. Another possibility is that this type of building on top of mounds or tells was done in order to be closer to the sky.

“Mound 72

During excavation of Mound 72, a ridge-top burial mound south of main urban precinct, archaeologists found the remains of a man in his 40s who was probably an important Cahokian ruler. The man was buried on a bed of more than 20,000 marine-shell disc beads arranged in the shape of a falcon, with the bird's head appearing beneath and beside the man's head, and its wings and tail beneath his arms and legs.”

>> This is done so to indicate that this buried man is a descendant of a ThunderBird.

• Page 2 279 –

>>16650877

(Please read from the start)

“The falcon warrior or "birdman" is a common motif in Mississippian culture. This burial clearly had powerful iconographic significance. In addition, a cache of sophisticated, finely worked arrowheads in a variety of different styles and materials was found near the grave of this important man. Separated into four types, each from a different geographical region, the arrowheads demonstrated Cahokia's extensive trade links in North America.

Archeologists recovered more than 250 other skeletons from Mound 72. Scholars believe almost 62% of these were sacrificial victims, based on signs of ritual execution, method of burial, and other factors. The skeletons include:

• Four young males, missing their hands and skulls

• A mass grave of more than 50 women around 21 years old, with the bodies arranged in two layers separated by matting

• A mass burial containing 40 men and women who appear to have been violently killed, some of these may have been buried alive: "From the vertical position of some of the fingers, which appear to have been digging in the sand, it is apparent that not all of the victims were dead when they were interred – that some had been trying to pull themselves out of the mass of bodies.”

The relationship of these burials to the central burial is unclear. They were unlikely to have all deposited at the same time. Wood in several parts of the mound has been radiocarbon-dated to between 950 and 1000 CE.

Excavations have indicated that Mound 72 was not constructed as a single mound, but rather as a series of smaller mounds. These mounds were reshaped and covered over to give Mound 72 its final ridge-top shape.”

>> When and mostly WHY were these people killed this way? Human sacrifice seemed to have taken place here, but as said, this was not done from the get go, but done at a later period and the mound was reshaped from the original one. See how you can identify burials with remains of human sacrifice in them? Now compare what we have here with what we have in Phoenicia: oops! We haven’t found a single grave like this one is Phoenicia. Then please compare what we have here with the graveyard of Carthage. Once again: oops! The cases are very different. See what I mean anons?

What I think happened is that at some point in time, after the founding of this site by the ThunderBirds, probably MANY generations later, the Evil Clan infiltrated instead of invading, and slowly took over and they replaced the cult of the Light by (((their))) disgusting cult. There is no way the ThunderBirds would accept humans to be sacrificed this way, NO WAY! This is not just my belief, but this is also supported by what was said about the Mound. The last 2 sentence are extremely important because they are proof indicating that this was added later on = by younger generation or by someone else which practiced human sacrifice and it was not part of the original site built by the ThunderBirds.

When I think about it, I’m not that surprised to find out this was added later on by (((them))) taking over this site, because (((they))) did the same thing to all the sites initially built by the Light Clans/warriors. And now I understand even more why the Bloodlines were interested in this site: it’s not just because this site was built by the Light, but because (((their))) ancient clan members desecrated this site and practiced human sacrifice here. It’s even making more sense now why this Mound was given the number of 72 by modern day archaeologists.

• Page 2 280 –

>>16650948

(Please read from the start)

“Copper workshop

Excavations near Mound 34 from 2002 to 2010 revealed a copper workshop. This unique find was originally discovered in the 1950s by archaeologist Gregory Perino, but its exact location was lost for 60 years. It is the only known copper workshop to be found at a Mississippian culture site. The area contains the remains of three tree stumps thought to have been used to hold anvil stones. Analysis of copper found during excavations showed that it had been annealed, a technique involving repeatedly heating and cooling the metal as it is worked, as blacksmiths do with iron.

Artisans produced religious items, such as long-nosed god maskettes, ceremonial earrings with a symbolic shape, thought to have been used in fictive kinship rituals. Many of the stylistically related Mississippian copper plates, such as the Wulfing cache from southeastern Missouri, some of the Etowah plates from Georgia, and many of the Spiro plates from Oklahoma, are associated with the Greater Braden style and are thought to have been made in Cahokia in the 13th century.”

>> It’s amazing how the location of the workshop “was lost” or forgotten for 60 years then miraculously found back. Doesn’t this give (((them))) time to excavate the spot incognito and allows (((them))) to gather the information and artifacts (((they))) want without drawing the public’s attention? This way, (((they))) keep the information and the artifacts all to (((themselves))) without anyone asking questions.

“Cahokia Woodhenge

The Cahokia Woodhenge was a series of large timber circles located roughly 850 m (2,790 ft) to the west of Monks Mound. They are thought to have been constructed between 900 and 1100 CE, with each one being larger and having 12 more posts than its predecessor. The site was discovered during salvage archaeology undertaken by Dr. Warren Wittry in the early 1960s interstate highway construction boom. Although the majority of the site contained village house features, a number of unusually shaped, large post holes were also discovered. When the holes were plotted out, they formed several arcs of equally spaced holes. Detailed analytical work supported the hypothesis that the placement of these posts was by design, and Wittry hypothesized that the arcs could be whole circles. He began referring to the circles as "woodhenges", comparing the structures to England's well-known circles at Woodhenge and Stonehenge.

Additional excavations in the 1960s–1980s used predictions based on verified posthole locations and spacing to locate other postholes and confirm the existence of five separate timber circles in the general vicinity. The circles are now designated Woodhenges I through V in Roman numerals. In 1985, a reconstruction of Woodhenge III was built with the posts being placed into the original excavated post positions. The circle, which has 48 posts in the circle and a 49th central post, has been used to investigate archaeoastronomy at Cahokia. The Illinois Historic Preservation Division that oversees the Cahokia site hosts public sunrise observations at the vernal and autumnal equinoxes and the winter and summer solstices. Out of respect for Native American beliefs, these events do not feature ceremonies or rituals of any kind.”

>> Got this feeling it’s not just the Woodhenges that are connected to astronomy, but the entire layout of the site. Also, did anyone checked if these circular Woodhenges might match a medicine wheel? Just a thought there, I’m no expert, so I’m simply thinking out loud.

• Page 2 281 –

>>16650964

(Please read from the start)

“Related mounds

Until the 19th century, a series of similar mounds was documented as existing in what is now the city of St. Louis, some 8 mi (13 km) to the west of Cahokia. Most of these mounds were leveled during the development of St. Louis, and much of their material was reused in construction projects.

The lone survivor of these mounds is Sugarloaf Mound. Located on the west bank of the Mississippi, it marked the initial border between St. Louis and the once autonomous city of Carondelet.

One of the largest Mississippian sites is Kincaid Mounds State Historic Site, located in Massac and Polk counties in southern Illinois. It is 140 mi (230 km) southeast of Cahokia, located in the floodplain of the Ohio River. With a total of 19 mounds at the complex, it is considered the fifth-largest Mississippian site in terms of the number of monuments. It is believed to have been a chiefdom, as an elite burial mound was among those found. The site is designated as a National Historic Landmark.”

>> Ever wondered why the mounds in St Louis were “leveled”?

“Cahokia Museum and Interpretive Center

The Cahokia Museum and Interpretive Center, which receives up to a million visitors a year, was designed by AAIC Inc. The building, which opened in 1989, received the Thomas H. Madigan Award, the St. Louis Construction News & Reviews Readers Choice Award, the Merit Award from the Metal Construction Association, and the Outstanding Achievement Award from the Brick Manufacturer Association.

Designations

Cahokia Mounds was first protected by the state of Illinois in 1923 when its legislature authorized purchase of a state park. Later designation as a state historic site offered additional protection, but the site came under significant threat from the federal highway building program in the 1950s. The highway program reduced the site's integrity; however, it increased funding for emergency archeological investigations. These investigations became intensive, and today continue. They have resulted in the present understanding of the national and international significance of the site. The site was designated a National Historic Landmark on July 19, 1964, and listed on the National Register of Historic Places on October 15, 1966.

[…]”

>> This is it for the Cahokia mounds, but I have one last comment to make about the global picture:

There is no doubt the Mississippi River played a very important role; as I’ve said before the Mississippi river played a double role of being a chronological spine and a trade spine. I’m not an expert, so I’m thinking out loud again: is there a High mountain, more than 4000 m high, in the vicinity or the path of this river? From the starting point, to the finishing point = it must all be checked out? After checking that: what about the North? Is it connected to Canada, to the Great Lakes?

What I’m trying to say is: this is how you should be thinking each time you find a similar site to Cahokia mounds? And just like I did with Kilimanjaro/Nile and the 3 mountains in Mexico with Teotihuacan, you might be able to retrace the survivors’ path and maybe find an Ark.

• Page 2 282 –

>>16650991

(Please read from the start)

There is one additional very interesting point to mention about the Cahokia site. In Wisconsin, there is a lake called Rock Lake. There are “claims” there is a stone pyramid at the bottom of this specific lake. So let’s see what this is about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Lake_(Wisconsin)

“Rock Lake is a lake in Southeast Wisconsin, United States.

Geography

Rock Lake is in south central Wisconsin, at Lake Mills, Wisconsin in Jefferson County, Wisconsin approximately 20 miles (32 km) east of Madison. Rock Lake is a 1365 acre lake with a maximum depth of 60 feet (18.3 m).

The lake shape resembles a slight figure eight with several distinct areas. South of the figure eight portion of the lake lies Bean Lake State natural area which is a protected marsh. Part of the south western part of the figure eight is usually covered in tall aquatic vegetation that reach out of the water. In the north western portion of the figure eight there is a sand bar which often has boats anchored and is swimming accessible.

The Glacial Drumlin State Trail runs across an old rail road bridge across the southern portion of the lake. The trail separates the lake from the marsh area to the south of the lake.

Pyramid Claims

Rock Lake is perhaps most famous for its underwater rock piles frequently claimed to be pyramids built by the Mississippian culture at a time when water levels were much lower.

Mounds shaped like pyramids exist three miles (5 km) east of Rock Lake in Aztalan State Park on the Crawfish River in the town of Aztalan, Wisconsin. The park has National Landmark Status. The mounds are thought to have been built by the Mississippian culture and it is speculated that the site at Aztalan was a northern outpost of Cahokia, a much larger city in present-day Illinois not far from St. Louis, Missouri.

The waters of Rock Lake have been referred to as "Tyranena", (Tie-ra-nee-na). That name has persisted in the area and is used by businesses, road names, and a park that is on the lake.

[…]”

>> The Wikipedia page is always “dry” about interesting subjects, isn’t it anons? Well, we have good info here about the location and general shape of the lake. But they do have a good point when saying this might be a settlement or a post of whomever built the Cahokia site. This shouldn’t come as surprise for anons because the Mississippi River acted like a chronological and trade Spine. We have the same situation with the Euphrates and the Nile Rivers where we see many City-States built along the banks of both rivers. Of course the possible existence of a pyramid underwater are “claims” according the Main Stream History or the “official” narrative because (((they))) don’t want us = the public, to go looking into it all and make connection with the Cahokia site and the ThunderBirds. It’s the History that (((they))) don’t want us to know about and want to keep it hidden from us.

• Page 2 283 –

>>16651018

(Please read from the start)

Let’s take a look at this: https://www.milwaukeemag.com/unsolved-mystery-ancient-underwater-pyramids-rock-lake/

“Unsolved Mystery: Are There Ancient Underwater Pyramids in Rock Lake?

Were these structures man-made?

BY MATT HRODEY

Rock Lake, at some 1,300 acres in western Jefferson County, is only about half the size of Pewaukee Lake. Its water is murky, a screen of silt and algae stirred up by the weather. Lake Mills, the town on its eastern shore, has had several businesses with the word “pyramid” in their names: Pyramid City Driving School, Pyramid Silo Services and the Pyramid Motel.

But you won’t see any pyramids above ground. You have to look under the water.

The Lake Mills Chamber of Commerce has promoted a legend that large stone structures lie beneath Rock Lake, dating back hundreds of years. The chamber claims Native Americans built pyramids in a valley, hoping to end a drought, and the gods responded by filling the valley with water.

The modern history of that legend began in the early 20th century, when a variety of divers and local fishermen reported seeing structures in the lake that looked man-made. Most famously, Wisconsin diving pioneer Max Nohl dived into the lake in 1937 and came across a stone structure that “looked like an upside down ice cream cone.”

That’s according to the Rock Lake Research Society, a group of divers, pilots and scientists that launched several expeditions between the late 1990s and early 2000s, resulting in a series of tantalizing photos but no conclusive evidence.

The society and other investigators have enjoyed little to no support from mainstream scientists. Former state archaeologist Bob Birmingham told the Wisconsin State Journal in 2015 that the tales were “a bunch of baloney.” The structures are just rock piles left by glaciers, Birmingham and others say.

In recent years, believers have used sophisticated sonar systems to produce maps of such large shapes as an 18-foot tall, tent-shaped stone pyramid with a 60-foot by 100-foot base. Whether any of the objects are man-made, they still don’t know.”

>> See how this article is written in a way to “mock” and ridicule whomever doesn’t fall in the narrative pushed forward by the paid experts? Whenever there is something that (((they))) don’t want us = the public, to ask questions about, to look into, (((they))) bring out the supposed experts and this is the result of their “expertise”.

• Page 2 284 –

>>16651034

(Please read from the start)

More: https://www.ancientpages.com/2018/08/22/remarkable-man-made-underwater-structures-could-rewrite-history-of-wisconsin/

“Remarkable Man-Made Underwater Structures Could Rewrite History Of Wisconsin

August 22, 2018

Ellen Lloyd - AncientPages.com - All across the world there are many underwater structures that still remain unexplored. Beneath the waters of our oceans and lakes lie sunken buildings, roads, entire cities, pyramids, and artifacts belonging to long-lost and forgotten civilizations.

Why have these submerged ruins not been properly investigated?

There are remarkable, artificial underwater structures beneath the waters of Rock Lake, Wisconsin but unfortunately for many years, these prehistoric ruins have been ignored by researchers.”

>> Good observation by saying these specific ruins have been “ignored”; I will add this was done on purpose.

“Although the lake is at least 10,000 years-old, no scientist wanted to seriously consider the possibility that 3,500 years-old ruins could actually exist at the bottom of the lake. Yet, something is definitely resting there.”

>> I think the dates should be re-evaluated/revised, most probably to older.

“Over the years, due to climate changes, it was occasionally possible to catch a brief glimpse of the lake's bottom. The first known discovery occurred in the early 1900s when Claude and Lee Wilson announced that their oar struck the apex of a pyramid about six feet below the lake's surface.

Several attempts were made to locate the unknown structure, but they all failed. Newspapers ignored the discovery and the Milwaukee Herald even referred to it as mass hysteria.”

>> The good old MSM doing a great job once more to cover up the truth. The existence of these underwater structures, if made public = known by the general public, would blow a huge hole into the carefully woven historical narrative (((they))) been spoon feeding us for so long. It would have raised too many questions (((they))) don’t want to answer and it would have attracted too many eyes (((they))) don’t want. So to hush things up, as usual, (((they))) activated (((their))) media assets; which by the way, buys (((them))) also time, to quietly and discreetly search and explore whatever is down at the bottom of the lake. We’ve seen (((them))) do this same exact thing many times already in other sites worldwide, in this thread – it’s a déjà vu.

“About 35 years later, a couple of divers detected other underwater structures beneath the surface of Rock Lake. Charles E. Brown, director of the Wisconsin Historical Museum, and Earnst F. Bean, a geology professor became interested in this discovery.”

• Page 2 285 –

>>16651043

(Please read from the start)

“The divers were asked to investigate the underwater ruins, but their results could not offer anything that would shed more light on the mysterious submerged structures.

People who participated in the investigation of Rock Lake were ridiculed.

It was said they were chasing a fantasy and the entire project was a waste of tax money.

One who did not give up his search was Alex Max Gene Nohl, an engineer and diver from Massachusetts.

In 1937, while diving he successfully located a triangular-shaped structure. It was a pyramid! His discovery was confirmed some years later when two pilots reported observing a huge triangular-shaped object beneath the surface of Rock Lake.”

>> See how the experts and the media treat such cases = they go after the messenger, not the message. I’ve talked about this many times before and this is how (((they))) twist things around and push (((their))) narrative forward. And did you notice how murky the water is? This is the same type of situation the divers face when trying to find the sunken palace of Cleopatra; I’ve already mentioned it before.

“The public was now eager to learn more about this fascinating discovery, but there was one problem. No archaeologist showed any interest or willingness to investigate Wisconsin's underwater pyramid.”

>> I volunteer, for free, but I need a team, mostly divers. Anons, if Potus and the Alliance are going to bring out the true History of mankind, then you can count on them to bring up this to light. I know for now theirs hands are full and they have loads to tackle, mostly more dangerous issues to face off with. This can wait, but as I just said, you can count on them to bring the truth about this issue out, one day, in the near future; maybe a couple of years down the road when things might have calmed down a bit with the economy and politics.

“Scientists were confronted with what could be the most significant and controversial North American archaeological discovery of the twentieth century and yet no, archaeologist was interested in the subject!”

>> Underwater archaeology is the new frontier for us. This type of site needs big funds because it’s underwater and it needs special treatment/ equipment’s. It’s better if this is done under State/Potus’ supervision (= big scale and not local small scale). This is a great cultural and historical treasure of the States and the Native Americans alike. Great care should be given to such a site, with the establishment of a local museum to host the possible artifacts which might be excavated. I guess it all depends what is there, under the water.

“For many years, scientists chose not to write or discuss the Rock Lake pyramid. Finally, in 1962, "The Wisconsin Archaeologist" printed an article conveying the opinion of the academic world. Readers were informed that it was highly unlikely a man-made pyramid could actually be found at the bottom of Rock Lake. Experts estimated the lake to be at least 10,000 years-old and that fact alone clearly spoke against the underwater pyramid.”

>> This is why I’ve said the dates should be revised. What are the odds these “scientists” kept quiet on purpose?

• Page 2 286 –

>>16651069

(Please read from the start)

“It was obvious archaeologists rejected the theory because this kind of this discovery would force scientists to rewrite the history of Wisconsin.”

>> LoL! I think it goes deeper than just the history of Wisconsin = it’s about the History of mankind and the ThunderBirds = the story of Atlantis.

“About five years later, diver Jack Kennedy found the underwater pyramid and brought to the surface several stone artifacts. In his excitement, he, unfortunately, forgot to mark the location of the pyramid and was unable to find it again. Lon Merrick, diver director at the Milwaukee Museum quickly used this opportunity to trivialize the Rock Lake case. He claimed that the so-called underwater pyramid was nothing else than large pieces of ice.”

>> Whom does Lon Merrick work for? Really work for?

“In 1970, "Skin Divers", a professional magazine dedicated to diving published a more objective article, giving the underwater pyramid some credibility. The Skin Divers informed its readers it was difficult to believe in the existence of the Rock Lake's underwater pyramid, mainly because of the structure's age.

If this structure was truly man-made, then it must be very old. Who could have built it? Logically it should not exist, but history is hardly ever logical. It would seem that the underwater pyramid posed a real challenge to all logically thinking American historians.”

>> It is truly much older than what it is admitted. It was built by the Flood survivors and the ThunderBirds. There is a reason why the Bloodlines are so secretive and interested in St Louis, the Cahokia mounds, the Piasa monster and the copper plates. This is one heck of a big “cover up” (((they))) did there.

“About 13 years later, Robert Boyd, a diving instructor arranged a somewhat larger underwater expedition together with his friend, Robert Bass. They were able to confirm the existence of stone structures resting at the bottom of the lake.”

• Page 2 287 –

>>16651079

(Please read from the start)

“In 1987, Frank Joseph, an American author became interested in the underwater pyramid. Together with other scientists, he completed a side-scan sonar study of the lake floor. The scientists managed to observe a number of unusual-shaped structures along a submerged beach. Side-scan sonar reading clearly indicated several artificial structures beneath the surface of Rock Lake.

According to Frank Joseph, beneath the waters of Rock Lake lie at least ten structures! Two of them have been mapped and photographed by skin divers and sonar. One of these structures which has been named the Limnatis Pyramid has a base width of 60 feet, a length of about 100 feet, and a height of 18 feet. It is a truncated pyramid.

After ending a series of descents, Frank Joseph was able to confirm the existence of Rock Lake's man-made underwater structure.

"We definitely found two structures about in the middle of the lake in 55 feet of water. I would have been satisfied with only one, but finding two is terrific," Joseph said.

"I'd say the first one is about eight feet high, 12 to 15 feet wide, and more than 100 feet long. The second is 10 to 20 feet south of the first and about the same width, with a steeper slant to the sides, and is shorter in length. They look to be the same height and exactly north and south on a compass alignment," Joseph's diving companion, John Shulak who has been exploring Rock Lake for several years added.

One is exactly like 'the loaf-of-bread pyramid' Kennedy described," said Shulak, referring to a 1970 account in Skin Diver magazine of a 1967 scuba dive by John Kennedy, a botanist from Lombard, Ill. "The area of rocks looks like a tent-shaped pyramid, collapsed."

Careful planning and ideal conditions are credited with the success of the expedition and the documentation.

"Visibility was the best ever, maybe because there was little runoff into the lake during last year's dry summer. I could see at least 10 to 15 feet," Shulak said. Frank Joseph theorizes that the lake, in much earlier, drier times, could have been a "city of the dead."

The key to understanding such sites is the geographic location connected to the river. It’s more than clear this site along with the one of the Cahokia mounds civilization, are not just connected but also are most probably built by Flood survivors or their direct descendants (= first generation). From what little information there is about these sites, they don’t seem to have megalithic blocks in them, for now anyway, until a new discovery is made. The construction technique of the structures should be highly significant and I won’t be surprised one bit to see the clamps and other masonry work we’ve seen the survivors of the Flood use in other parts of the world. I’m also in the mindset this site is connected to the ThunderBirds, as in we will most probably find traces and even possibly artifacts connected/in relation with them.

• Page 2 288 –

>>16651094

(Please read from the start)

The reaction of the Bloodlines, the supposed experts and the media about the whole of the sites along the Mississippi river is highly notable and it’s indicating (((they))) don’t want us looking into this and discovering what’s in there. I won’t be surprised at all to find out there are other sites along the river, still undiscovered.

The real question is where did the survivors come from? By that, I mean where is the Ark carrying them located? The Appalachian mountain chain’s height is too low. We should be looking for a point which is 4000 m + above sea level, from which the River can be easily accessible by foot, for the survivors to reach.

This leaves me with the Rocky mountain range. Please take a look at this Wikipedia page listing the peaks and their height: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountain_peaks_of_the_Rocky_Mountains

There are 3 possible candidate states where the Ark could be located:

1 – The highest possibility is the state of Colorado where we have a multitude of peaks all taller than 4000 m. Because of the high number of peak s, it’s going to be hard to locate the Ark just by visually searching for it. Finding/locating ancient human settlement/sites or even petroglyphs in the area can be a hint/clue there is an Ark in the vicinity, but this needs verification and the information should be handled with care, with no rush. From Colorado heights, the survivors could have navigated down the Arkansas river all the way to the Mississippi river (possibility). Of course anons shouldn’t forget that the water level must have been different from what it is now, because the flood waters SLOWLY receded = it took time for it to be what it is now = it happened gradually. I don’t know if there are human traces or sites on the path of the Arkansas river leading towards the Mississippi river since I’m unfamiliar with the Native American history. Maybe someone reading is knowledgeable and can help out by indicating sites with petroglyphs or other “clues” along the path of the river which might be helpful.

2 – The second possibility is the state of Wyoming, where we have a few peaks that fit with the altitude (like BigHorn mountains = Cloud peak; and Wind River Range – Gannett peak). We even have “human traces” like the Medicine Wheel. If I understand the geography well, there are rivers flowing from Wyoming state towards the state of Montana and from there on, you take the Missouri river to reach the Mississippi river. Bighorn is a possible candidate.

3 – The last possibility is the state of Montana with the Missouri river flowing to reach the Mississippi river. There are a few peaks in the state of Montana which could fit for the place the Ark landed in.

If there is an anon acknowledgeable reading and can help out identify the route/ path the survivors took it could help to trace it all back to the peak where the Ark might be.

It can be done by someone whom knows the terrain well and someone whom knows about the human “traces” left behind (petroglyphs for example) along this path. Since I’m unfamiliar with it, I cannot do it alone; my knowledge is limited to what I can find on the net and I know that’s very narrow. It’s different and much better if it’s done with the help of a local.

• Page 2 289 –

>>16651112

(Please read from the start)

I want to take a look at the Aztalan site as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aztalan_State_Park

“Aztalan State Park is a Wisconsin state park in the Town of Aztalan, Jefferson County. Established in 1952, it was designated a National Historic Landmark in 1964 and added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1966. The park covers 172 acres (70 ha) along the Crawfish River.”

>> Look at the numbers anons.

“Aztalan is the site of an ancient Mississippian culture settlement that flourished during the 10th to 13th centuries. The indigenous people constructed massive earthwork mounds for religious and political purposes. They were part of a widespread culture with important settlements throughout the Mississippi River valley and its tributaries. Their trading network extended from the Great Lakes to the Gulf Coast, and into the Southeast of the present-day United States.

Pre-history (900-1300)

Aztalan was first settled around 900 CE by a Native American culture known as the Middle Mississippian Tradition. The chief center of a Middle Mississippian settlement is at Cahokia, in present-day Illinois, a city that at its peak had 20,000–30,000 people. This was not surpassed by Europeans in North America until after 1800. These settlements are characterized by the construction of earthwork mounds, stockades, and houses, by decorated Mississippian culture pottery, and agricultural practices. There are also elements of the Woodland culture found there.

The residents of Aztalan had long-distance trading relationships with other settlements, linked by their use of the rivers for transportation. For example, items found at the settlement include copper from Michigan's Upper Peninsula, shells from the coast of the Gulf of Mexico, and stone such as Mill Creek chert from other areas of the Midwest.

Sometime between 1200 and 1300 CE, the Aztalan settlement was abandoned. Archeologists and historians surmise they may have outgrown environmental resources, or encountered more warfare from other cultures, but do not know for sure. The Little Ice Age occurred soon after 1300 and may have contributed to farming difficulties, putting too much stress on the local chiefdoms.”

>> There are many possibilities why this site was abandoned; just like it’s the case with the Cahokia site. What is notable is that both sites seem to have abandoned around the same time. So this opens the possibility of them being abandoned because of the same thing = same cause.

• Page 2 290 –

>>16651126

(Please read from the start)

“Life in Aztalan

Most of the residents lived in circular or rectangular houses which they built between the river and the eastern secondary wall. The placement of the structures suggests that the layout was planned. The dwellings were built around a central ceremonial plaza likely used for rituals and public gatherings, as has been found at similar locations. Posts for the house frames were placed either in individual holes, or in a trench dug slightly narrower than the posts. The walls were completed with wattle and daub, a plaster mixture of grass and clay. The roof was covered with bark or thatch. The doorway usually faced south to keep out the winter's north winds. Inside, a single family slept on pole-frame beds, covered with tamarack boughs, deer skins, and furs. Sometimes a fire was kept in the middle of the house and a hole in the roof let out the smoke. Storage pits dug in the earthen floor of the house held foods such as corn, nuts, and seeds in woven bags. Perishable foods such as meat were most likely stored outside prior to cooking. Refuse pits for garbage and community storage pits were located outside.”

>> If the layout was thought of, then there might be a correlation with astronomy.

“The site was well chosen to provide a variety of food sources, and other resources. The staple of the diet was cultivated corn (maize), and other plants were also gathered as food, such as acorns, hickory nuts, and berries. Tobacco was grown at this time for sacred rituals, as tobacco seeds have been found at this site. The main source of meat was deer, especially in the winter. The people also caught and ate beaver, elk, fox, muskrats, and raccoons. They hunted birds and turtles, collected mussels, and caught fish in the Crawfish River directly next to the site. To help with fishing, the people set up rock barriers called fish weirs at key points, one of which is visible when the river is low. They caught catfish, bass, suckers, buffalo fish, pike, drum fish, and gar. They disposed of the thousands of shells from consumed mussels in middens. These have layers of shells several feet thick.

The people living here gathered food and resources for tools and building. Other materials were obtained through trade. Trees nearby provided wood for posts for house walls and stockades, bows and arrow shafts, and firewood. Smaller tree branches and grass were used for bedding and roofs. Shells were used to make jewelry, beads, spoons, and digging tools. The people dug river clay to use in fashioning fired pottery. Traded items, used for ornamental or ceremonial purposes, were an attribute of status because of their rarity.

Physical features

The most obvious features of Aztalan are its pyramid-shaped, flat-topped platform mounds and the stockades, believed to have served both ceremonial and defensive functions.

Mounds

Three platform mounds remain on the site. The largest is the one in the southwest corner of the stockade; one almost as large is located in the northwest corner. The smallest of the three is along the east side of the settlement, near the Crawfish River (labeled "West Branch of Rock River" on the plates). The hill in the southeast corner is a natural gravel knoll, not built by the inhabitants.”

• Page 2 291 –

>>16651132

(Please read from the start)

“The largest mound was built in three stages, with a set of steps leading to the top, where a structure was built over the entire flat top. The mound was covered with a clay cap, probably to enhance its appearance. Corn was stored in pits inside the structure. Scholars have several theories about why the corn was kept there, and the overall purpose of the structure. It may have been the storage facility for the entire village, or storage for food just for the top village officials; it may have been used for ceremonies and rituals; or it could have been a house for the village officials. This topmost structure was rebuilt each time a larger stage of the mound was built on top of the old.”

>> It’s highly possible that each stage was built by a generation; not all built in one go.

“The northwestern mound, used for formal burial, was also built in three stages. A special structure, approximately 4 metres (13 ft) by 2 metres (6.6 ft), with its long axis towards the northeast–southwest, was built on the west side of the mound. Its doorway was in its southwest corner, and the structure was covered with a mixture of clay, willow branches, and grass. The floor was covered with a mat of what may have been cattails. The bodies of ten people were placed side by side on this, with their heads toward the doorway. The bones of another person were bundled together with cord and placed near them. Once this construction was complete, and the bodies were inside, the building was burned.

The eastern mound had a large open-walled structure, about 12 metres (39 ft) by 27 metres (89 ft), built on top of it, with firepits lined with white sand inside. The function of this mound and structure remain unclear.

Additionally, to the northwest of the stockaded area, a row of round mounds extends northward. When archaeologists excavated in these mounds during the 1920s, they did not find the burial sites they had expected. Instead, each mound had a large post set in a pit in its center, surrounded by gravel and soil, with the pit capped with clay and gravel to hold the post steady. These mounds have been termed "marker mounds" because they may have been used to mark the site for travelers, but this is not certain. They may also have been used for announcements, message relays, or for calculations of astronomical phenomena, as has been found at other Mississippian sites, such as Cahokia.

Stockade

The settlement was surrounded on the north, west, and south sides by a palisade, a wall of logs set vertically into the ground. Narrow holes were dug into the ground, then the posts were lifted into position and set into the holes. The stockade was finished by people weaving flexible willow branches through the posts, and plastering the whole with a mixture of clay and grass to fill in the gaps, a technique similar to wattle and daub.

At some point, a smaller stockade was built within the outer one to delimit the dwelling areas. Archeologists have not been able to determine whether both stockades existed simultaneously, for a layered defense, or one was built after the other fell into disuse.

In 1850, Increase A. Lapham, an author, scientist, and naturalist, surveyed the site on behalf of the Smithsonian Institution, which was surveying ancient mounds. He described the outer stockade as being "631 feet (192 m) long at the north end, 1,149 feet (350 m) long on the west side and 700 feet (210 m) on the south side; making a total length of wall of 2,750 feet (840 m). The ridge or wall is about 22 feet (6.7 m), and from 1 foot (0.30 m) to 5 feet (1.5 m)) in height". It had at least 33 square bastions at regular intervals along its length, similar in form and placement to some European fortifications, in order to allow defensive warriors to cover that area by shooting arrows. In addition, others were built along the secondary walls. Rather than having a gate to protect the entrance, the builders constructed the entrance so that it was camouflaged from direct view and blended in with the wall on either side.”

• Page 2 292 –

>>16651138

(Please read from the start)

“During the time Aztalan was inhabited, two sets of outer stockades were built. The posts of the first one eventually rotted, and the second one burned and was never rebuilt. It is not clear whether the purpose of the stockade was to keep out invaders, or if the occupants built it for another reason.”

>> The reasons can be the same as the one I talked about in the Cahokia site. The composition/style of the site is the same as the one in Cahokia, which makes the possibility high they were both built by the same people = same clan/tribe.

“Modern discovery (1835-1919)

A young man named Timothy Johnson discovered the ruins of the ancient settlement in December 1835. In January 1836, N. F. Hyer conducted the first rough survey of the site, and published his discovery in the Milwaukie Advertiser of January 1837.

According to Lapham:

The name Aztalan was given to this place by Mr. Hyer, because, according to Humboldt, the Aztecs, or ancient inhabitants of Mexico, had a tradition that their ancestors came from a country at the north, which they called Aztalan; and the possibility that these may have been remains of their occupancy, suggested the idea of restoring the name. It is made up of two Mexican words, atl, water, and an, near; and the country was probably so named from its proximity to large bodies of water. Hence the natural inference that the country about these great lakes was the ancient residence of the Aztecs.”

>> So someone made an assumption this site might be the place of origins of the Aztecs and name it like that: Aztalan; without any tangible, physical proof supporting this.

“Hyer wrote, "We are determined to preserve these ruins from being ruined." However, in 1838, President Martin Van Buren refused a request by Massachusetts statesman Edward Everett to withdraw the site from public sale, and it was sold for $22. In the following years, the surface was plowed, the mounds were leveled for easier farming, pottery shards and "Aztalan brick" were hauled away by the wagonload to fill in potholes in township roads, and souvenir hunters took numerous artifacts.

In 1850, Lapham urged the preservation of the stockade. At the time, the stockade was still standing, though not in the condition it had once been.”

>> What a shame. If we dig into this, I’m sure you are going to find out this is done on purpose and the Bloodlines are behind it. (((They))) wanted and orchestrated the destruction of this site. This is big proof this site was a ThunderBird’s site. Why? = because (((they))) made sure it’s destroyed and looted.

• Page 2 293 –

>>16651149

(Please read from the start)

“State park foundation and reconstruction (1919-present)

In 1919, archeological excavations began at Aztalan under the direction of Dr. S. A. Barrett. In 1920, the Landmarks Committee of the State Historical Society of Wisconsin, under Publius V. Lawson, started a new effort to save what remained of Aztalan, supported by the Friends of Our Native Landscape and the Wisconsin Archeological Society. They made their first purchase of some of the land in 1921, three acres (12,000 m2) west of the stockade and containing eight conical mounds, and presented it to the Wisconsin Archeological Society.

Work for preservation continued. In 1936, the state's archeological and historical societies petitioned the federal government for funds to reconstruct the stockade, without success, although during the Great Depression the US funded archeological work and preservation at numerous ancient sites around the country. In 1941, the newly founded Lake Mills-Aztalan Historical Society began an energetic campaign to preserve the stockade area.

In 1945, the Wisconsin State Assembly passed a bill directing the State Planning Board to study the possibility of establishing a state park at Aztalan. In 1947, the Wisconsin State Legislature passed a resolution requesting the State Conservation Commission to purchase Aztalan. 120 acres (490,000 m2) were purchased to this end in 1948, and the Wisconsin Archeological Society and the Lake Mills-Aztalan Historical Society donated their holdings. Aztalan opened to the public in 1952 as Aztalan State Park.

Aztalan was designated a registered National Historic Landmark in 1964 and added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1966. In 1968, the state reconstructed portions of the stockade wall by placing new posts in the original holes. A section of this was also covered with the wattle and daub, but this has since worn away or been removed.”

>> I don’t know what the laws are in the States concerning archaeology. First of all, this site should be named correctly because the wrong name will lead to wrong research. Give it its original name back. Respect the origins. The American people and the government, either local, state level or federal should do their outmost best to preserve these sites, mostly the ThunderBird related sites. You have no idea how important the places connected with the ThunderBirds are. There is a possibility the Bloodlines have the “information” about this site and if there were any “notable” artifacts recovered, (((they))) might have them as well since we know (((they))) are collectors. Let’s hope everything wasn’t truly destroyed, but (((their))) greed lead (((them)))) to keep some of the artifacts in secret.

This site is connected to Cahokia mounds, St Louis, Rock Lake. I’m sure we will find other sites as well if you look for them all along the river. All of these places are connected because they were built by ONE group of people which seem to be a ThunderBird tribe. Sure, some of the sites might have been taken over in later generation by the evil clan, but this doesn’t belittle the importance of the sites built by the ThunderBirds. The discovery of the other sites, studying them and finding what links them together, will change and re-write the entire history of the States. There is also a possibility we might retrace the Ark which landed in the States, if we can rewind the itinerary of the survivors – that is if the Bloodlines didn’t find it first.

If anyone reading is interested about this specific digging tunnel or has knowledge and wants to help/share, please do.I’m going to stop here about this for now.

• Page 2 294 –

>>16651154

(Please read from the start)

Since I’m not familiar with the myths, legends, stories of the Native Americans, I read general mythology encyclopedias to get acquainted with it all. There are MANY myths from the Many tribes/cultures/Nations of the Native Americans and sometimes each myth has a multitude of variants or should I say versions to it. It’s not easy to regroup them and it takes time to figure out which is the core story behind the many versions. I won’t go there since it’s too much time consuming and it’s way out of my reach = not my domain of expertise. Instead, I’m going to RANDOMLY put some of the myths which caught my attention. As I just said, there is no specific order, or preference to the myths I’m going to show you.

The first myth/deity that caught my attention was Tsohanoai: www.windows2universe.org/mythology/tsohanoai_sun.html

“For the Navajo Indians of North America, Tsohanoai is the Sun god. Everyday, he crosses the sky, carrying the Sun on his back. At night, the Sun rests by hanging on a peg in his house.

Tsohanoai's two children Nayenezgani (Killer of Enemies) and Tobadzistsini (Child of Water) were separated from their father and lived with their mother in the far West. Once they were older, they tried to find their father, hoping he could help them fight the evil spirits tormenting mankind. They met Spider Woman, who gave them two feathers to keep them safe on their journey. Finally, they found Tsohanoai's house, and he gave them magic arrows to fight off the evil monsters, Anaye.”

>> Since it’s short, I gathered many sources to get bits of information from here and there. So, I’m going to put the texts first and then give my take.

www.godchecker.com/navajo-mythology/TSOHANOAI/

“TSOHANOAI

God who carries the sun on his back

He crosses the sky every day lugging the sun on his back. When he gets home, he hangs it on a peg where it remains until it’s time for the next morning’s commute.

He was the absent father of twin War Gods Nayenezgani and Tobadzistsini, to whom he eventually gave magic arrows to defeat the demons.”

https://ehillerman.unm.edu/node/1421#sthash.DDEgVEbs.dpbs

“Bearer of the Sun

In Navajo mythology there is a difference between the sun in the sky and the Bearer of the Sun, also known as Tsohanoai in navajo. The Bearer of the Sun is the holy being who carries the sun across the sky every day. He is symbolically represented as a blue disk with mouth eyes, and, occassionally, horns. Sometimes, however, he is represented in sand paintings as a person. He has an acknowledged wife, Changing Woman (Estsanatlehi), but much like Zeus in Greek mythology, Bearer of the Sun has relations with many other women, and as a result has many illegitimate children. The illegitimate children are only acknowledged as his own when they have completed a difficult task. In one such instance, Changing Woman’s children, the Hero Twins, are challenged to complete a series of tasks when they confront Bearer of the Sun at his house.”

• Page 2 295 –

>>16651158

(Please read from the start)

>>There is precious information here; which I’m going to view from the view point of Sebetti rulers. The details match despite the names being different. This is why I’m using this method. I would like to remind the readers that this is what the later generation transmitted; as in there might be gaps and of course there is mutation and misunderstandings. But as I just said, the details match.

Tsohanoai is the King of kings, the Great Sun. He seemed to be living somewhere up in the sky; reminding me of the same thing being said about Ra from Ancient Egypt. It’s very clear that He is not the solar ball of fire. Here, in the third source, they have clearly distinguished Him from the ball of fire sun. He is called the Sun because He SHINES = emits light; not just any Light but Spiritual Light. So when it is said that He is the Bearer of the Sun, it means He carries the Spiritual Holy Light within Him.

In the third source I’ve put, they also mentioned that he is sometimes represented with horns. The question is: which horns are they talking about? I’m asking this because we have 3 different horned clans, so trying to find out which kind of horns he was represented with changes greatly the interpretation. Here, it’s vague, I’m unable to determine which it is.

The Changing Woman mentioned also in the third source is certainly Neith. But it’s incorrect that the Great King was a cheater and a womanizer. This is a mutation in the story. Do you remember how I keep on telling that the lesser sun was confused by later generation as the Great Sun in the Middle East? Well, here you go, you have it here as well. Here again, the younger generations are unable to distinguish between the Greater Sun and the lesser sun. How I am so sure there is a confusing and misunderstanding from the younger generation?

Because I am certain about the personality of the King of kings and what He stands for; in other words anons, He is from the Light and the Light doesn’t do such things. Do you understand me? The Light doesn’t have such dirty or malicious thoughts. And the One whom has the strongest Light also has the strongest MORAL CODE of conduct ever. Just take a look at the Saints, mostly Saint Charbel. The ones with strong Light have a very strict moral code, they don’t waver nor do they get tempted. It’s in the same logic that our Heavenly Father and the Light would never ask for the sacrifice of children, even if it’s as a test. This is not what the Light is. The ones with the Light don’t have such feelings nor such thoughts; mostly not such dirty thoughts. The Great King doesn’t need to TEST you because He is in you, He can read your heart and your thoughts just like professor Xavier from X-men does. So He already knows, but He also gives you the freedom to choose between right and wrong. He doesn’t take your free will and He doesn’t force you down.

This is the way of the Evil One: to have all kinds of dirty thoughts, including having a harem which will end up in his orgies. This also includes forcing himself on you and stripping your choices away from you.

When you understand this core subject, then you will quickly be able to distinguish whom is whom and pinpoint where mutation occurred.

• Page 2 296 –

>>16651162

(Please read from the start)

Then, comes even more interesting details. Tsohanoai had 2 children, twins.

The first is called Nayenezgani; as in Killer of Enemies. This fits perfectly with the Evil One. I see him like some type of a warrior like Sebetti ruler whom used to have the mission to protect humans, but he turned on them. We’ve talked about this before. So saying that he is the Killer of Enemies; that is so true, remember how Seth helped Ra defeat Apep at first, before he turned evil.

The second is called Tobadzistsini; as in Child of Water. This first perfectly with the Evil Lady. We have seen it before that she is somehow connected to water; I’ve been suspecting it before, but I’ve been unable to pinpoint it and fully understand how it’s all connected yet. And when you think about it deep, water fits good as her elements since her twin had the element of fire = in other words, they had opposite complementary elements. The Evil’s One had the element of fire while the Evil Lady’s element was water. This might explain why she is represented as a Fish; but I’m more convinced by the mutation of her clothing/corset because we found the mutation stages to it and how it changed from the bird like wings draping her to the corset worn by Atargatis in Ephesus.

The “twins” didn’t live with their father. We’ve also already seen this before and how the King of kings lived ABOVE and FAR AWAY from others.

Next, it’s said that the twins went looking for their father. This is not to be taken word to word; as in they didn’t lose their father. We already know there was a high council of the Sebetti ruler which had meetings and we already know from the many myths of Inanna that she had an audience or should I say met Anu when she requested it. Because of this, it doesn’t mean the twins lost their father and couldn’t see him. Here, it’s got another meaning. I’m leaning to think that here, it means that they got “illegally” or should I say sneaked into the house of the Great King = sneak into his place of residence to try to find him. Which brings me to that night where there was a reception of some sort and everyone was invited, at some point, the Evil One sneaked in, in full armor, and killed the King of kings.

They meet Spider Woman = as in Neith, whom gives them feathers. I guess this is to say that they flew to the house of Tsohanoai. This can be interpreted as in: they stole the flying machinery to go to the Royal Palace. See the Spider is the symbol of the Oracle aspect of Neith. Since Neith was the head of the Lamassu Clan = winged bull, it means they had feathers as in they could fly. I always believed that the Lamassu Clan warriors were some type of pilots of flying machinery. So if I combine all of these elements together, it sounds like the Evil Couple took (either in a good way as in borrowed; or in a bad way as in theft) some flying machinery from the Lamassu clan to reach the Royal Palace where the King of kings resided. There is also the possibility that they might have sneaked inside one of the flying machines and hid in it till it reached the Palace; like one of the scenes we see out of Hollywood.

• Page 2 297 –

>>16651166

(Please read from the start)

The last detail fits despite it having a mutation: it’s about the King of kings giving them arrows. Arrows were the weapon of the Antelope Clan/ also used by the Wolf Clan as seen and explained in the Bronze Plaque of the Hells (starting page 960). And we also know from Greek mythology that the “twins” = Apollo and Artemis were archers. So this detail fits. What doesn’t work well is that Anu GAVE them these weapons. I’m not sure how I should interpret this since I believe this is where the mutation occurred. It could mean they stole something from the house of the King of kings, like a powerful weapon – an idea which we also saw before in this thread. But in the same time, we also know that it was the King of kings which assigned to each Sebetti ruler a kingdom = a territory to rule. So does this mean the King of kings also gave them the heraldic animal symbols, the armors and the weapons each Sebetti Clan used? It’s very possible, isn’t it? Once again, it’s not very clear here what I really means.

It’s amazing how, when you know the core story, you can find it projected, mirrored in various myths and legends from all over the globe. And it actually fits, despite the mutations and the misunderstandings of the younger generations.

That’s it for the myth of Tsohanoai.

Let’s take a look next to Awonawilona: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awonawilona

“In the myths of the Pueblo Zuni people of New Mexico, Awonawilona is known as the "Supreme life-giving power" and the creator of all with a name translating to "All Container".The deity's gender is not specified in myth and referred to as either he or she. In the beginning, Awonawilona created and became all configurations of water in the world; as a result fog, clouds, large bodies of water, and air were formed. In other versions, fog and steam were already existent before Awonawilona. The new combination of light, clouds, and air allowed for vegetation and made Awonawilona the "essence" of life as s/he created the universe. The universe was made up of 9 layers: the first layer was the earth and the other 8 were homes for various animals, birds, and trees.

Eventually Awonawilona chose to embody the sun and created the deity the Sun-father, which lead to the formation of several other gods such as Awitelin Tsita (The Four-Fold Containing Mother Earth), and Apoyan Tachu (All Covering Father-sky), from green scum formed over the waters. As the myth unfolds, the deities created by Awonawilona leads to the creation of humans and all living creatures.”

• Page 2 298 –

>>16651167

(Please read from the start)

“Like all mythologies, there are many different versions of the Zuni creation story. In one version, the creature Poshaiyankya escapes from the four-fold womb of Awitelin Tsita and convinces the Sun father, Awonawilona, to send the Ahayuta, the twin gods of war, to bring the rest of womb dwellers into the light. Other versions of the myth say that Awonawilona sent the twin gods of war to bring forth people that would give him offerings and prayers.”

>> As I’ve said before, I’m not an expert in Native American myths and legends. I’m going to say how I see this from the Sebetti perspective.

Awonawilona is our Heavenly Father. It is kinda true that everything created is from water in the Universe. So He created Father Sun whom is none other than the King of kings and the other Sebetti rulers. The twin gods of war are none other than the Evil Couple. Sure the details may vary from one version to another, but I think those whom will research this will find the core = main points easy.

When taking a look at Awonawilona, I also found this nice short list: https://zunireligion.weebly.com/godsreligious-figures.html

“Awonawilona. The Zuni name for the Creator. Awonawilona is a divine spirit who does not take the shape of a human, he is considered to embody both genders, and is not personified in Zuni folklore.”

>> He fits perfectly well with our Heavenly Father.

“Poshaiyankya. The first man, who first brought the Zuni people onto the earth.

Ahaiyuta and Matsailema. (Morning Light and Evening Star, also called the Ahayuta Brothers.) Twin heroes sent by Awonawilona to help Poshaiyankya and the first humans.”

>> The twins are obviously the Serpent and Antelope Sebetti rulers = the twins, before they turned evil.

“Yanauluha. Yanauluha is the culture hero of the Zuni tribe. Unlike culture heroes in some tribes, Yanauluha is not a trickster figure but rather a dignified hero who teaches the Zunis the arts of medicine and agriculture.”

>> Sounds like someone from the Wolf Clan.

“Uhepono. The chief of the Zuni underworld, a fearsome giant with fur and huge round eyes.”

>> This one is tricky. We don’t have much about him, apart those few detail. He could be a warrior from any of the clans.

“Awitelin Tsita. Mother Earth.

Apoyan Tachu. Father Sky.”

>> It’s obvious here, it’s the King of kings and the Queen of queens.

• Page 2 299 –

>>16651169

(Please read from the start)

“Kolowisi. The horned water serpent of Zuni legend. He is a generally a nice spirit, not a monster.”

>> Could be the Serpent Sebetti ruler before he turned evil. Or the ones whom perpetuated these legends were members of the Horned Serpent Clan speaking of the Evil One in a good way.

“Atahsaia. A terrible man-eating ogre.”

Suuke. These are Zuni monsters said to live in caves and carry off children in their baskets.

>> It’s obvious these 2 are from the Horned Serpent Clan = the pedovores.

“Kachinas. These are supernatural Pueblo nature spirits, the Zuni have elaborate kachina ceremonies where male dancers wear sacred costumes and become living spirits of certain kachinas.

Pautiwa. This is the most important of the Pueblo kachina spirits, a sun deity who is the ruler of all the other kachinas.

Ololowishkya. a fertility spirit associated with rain dances and corn ceremonies, usually appearing as a humpbacked man.”

>> The second one mentioned here is none other than the King of kings. I have no idea whom the last one could be. His association with corn and rain remind me of Viracocha and Bocchica, but I’m not sure if it’s him or not.

The Last thing that caught my attention from the Zuni mythology is Yanauluha: www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803125246188

“The great medicine-man of Zuni mythology. After the first men had emerged from the wombs of the earth mother, they realized how unusual their own appearance was. Having adapted to life underground, they were strange creatures, black and scaly, with short tails, owl's eyes, huge ears, and webbed feet. In the uncertainty of that day they turned to the wisdom of Yanauluha, who had brought a vessel of water from the primeval ocean, seeds of plants, and a staff which had power to give life. He taught the Pueblo Zuni the arts of civilization: agriculture, husbandry, and the regulation of social life. His potent medicine staff, painted in bright colours and decorated with feathers, shells, and stones, represents the foundation of Zuni religion; it is the emblem of the first chief priest.”

>> Loads of fascinating information here. From what is written here, it seems Yanaulula was someone from the Wolf Clan since he is mostly associated with medicine. But he could also be a member from the other Light Sebetti Clans. I see him mostly as a Wolf Sebetti Clan member.

Just read how humans used to look like and mostly how humans came out = emerged from the “wombs of the earth mother”. I don’t know what to say about this. It’s fascinating. Is this about the Arks whom fossilized and turned into cave like structures? Did early men hide in caves as it was the case with the Ayar brother from the Inca legends? Is this Hollow Earth mentioned here? My mind is going in all directions. For those interested in such subjects, this is a good place to start investigating and digging.

• Page 2 300 –

>>16651179

(Please read from the start)

Next I want to take to some Native American Nations/cultures; a bit about them and a bit about their myths, including some of their deities. Let’s take a look at the Iroquois: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois

“The Iroquois (/ˈɪrəkwɔɪ/ or /ˈɪrəkwɑː/) or Haudenosaunee (/ˌhoʊdinoʊˈʒoʊniː/; "People of the Longhouse") are an Iroquoian indigenous confederacy in northeast North America. They were known during the colonial years to the French as the Iroquois League, and later as the Iroquois Confederacy. The English called them the Five Nations, comprising the Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, and Seneca (listed geographically from east to west). After 1722, the Iroquoian-speaking Tuscarora people from the southeast were accepted into the confederacy, which became known as the Six Nations.

The founders of the Iroquois League are traditionally held to be Deganawidah the Great Peacemaker, Hiawatha, and Jigonsaseh the Mother of Nations. For nearly 200 years, the Iroquois were a powerful factor in North American colonial policy. At its peak around 1700, Iroquois power extended from what is today New York State, north into present-day Canada, west along the Great Lakes and south on both sides of the Allegheny mountains into present-day Virginia and Kentucky and into the Ohio Valley.

The St. Lawrence Iroquoians, Wyandot (Huron), Erie, and Susquehannock, all independent peoples known to the European colonists, also spoke Iroquoian languages. They are considered Iroquoian in a larger cultural sense, all being descended from the Proto-Iroquoian people and language. Historically, however, they were competitors and enemies of the Iroquois League nations. Cherokee is also an Iroquoian language.

In 2010, more than 45,000 enrolled Six Nations people lived in Canada, and over 81,000 in the United States.

Names

Iroquois, the most common name for the confederacy, is of somewhat obscure origin. Its first written appearance as "Irocois" is in Samuel de Champlain's account of his journey to Tadoussac in 1603. Other early French spellings include "Erocoise", "Hiroquois", "Hyroquoise", "Irecoies", "Iriquois", "Iroquaes", "Irroquois", and "Yroquois", pronounced at the time as [irokwe] or [irokwɛ]. Competing theories have been proposed for this term's origin, but none have gained widespread acceptance. By 1978 Ives Goddard wrote: "No such form is attested in any Indian language as a name for any Iroquoian group, and the ultimate origin and meaning of the name are unknown.

Jesuit priest and missionary Pierre François Xavier de Charlevoix wrote in 1744:

The name Iroquois is purely French, and is formed from the [Iroquoian-language] term Hiro or Hero, which means I have said—with which these Indians close all their addresses, as the Latins did of old with their dixi—and of Koué, which is a cry sometimes of sadness, when it is prolonged, and sometimes of joy, when it is pronounced shorter.”

>> The H letter at the beginning of a word is swallowed/omitted in French; so if their real name starts with it, it’s swallowed in French; like for example the word HUT in English is pronounced with the H, but in French, the H is omitted during the pronunciation and it becomes “UT”.

“In 1883, Horatio Hale wrote that Charlevoix's etymology was dubious, and that "no other nation or tribe of which we have any knowledge has ever borne a name composed in this whimsical fashion".Hale suggested instead that the term came from Huron, and was cognate with the Mohawk ierokwa- "they who smoke," or Cayuga iakwai- "a bear". In 1888, J.N.B. Hewitt expressed doubts that either of those words exist in the respective languages. He preferred the etymology from Montagnais irin "true, real" and ako "snake", plus the French -ois suffix. Later he revised this to Algonquin Iriⁿakhoiw as the origin.”

• Page 2 301 –

>>16651191

(Please read from the start)

“A more modern etymology was advocated by Gordon M. Day in 1968, elaborating upon Charles Arnaud from 1880. Arnaud had claimed that the word came from Montagnais irnokué, meaning "terrible man", via the reduced form irokue. Day proposed a hypothetical Montagnais phrase irno kwédač, meaning "a man, an Iroquois", as the origin of this term. For the first element irno, Day cites cognates from other attested Montagnais dialects: irinou, iriniȣ, and ilnu; and for the second element kwédač, he suggests a relation to kouetakiou, kȣetat-chiȣin, and goéṭètjg – names used by neighboring Algonquian tribes to refer to the Iroquois, Huron, and Laurentian peoples.

The Gale Encyclopedia of Multicultural America attests the origin of Iroquois to "Iroqu," Algonquian for "rattlesnake".The French encountered the Algonquian-speaking tribes first, and would have learned the Algonquian names for their Iroquois competitors.

Haudenosaunee ("People of the Longhouse") is the autonym by which the Six Nations refer to themselves.This name is occasionally preferred by scholars of Native American history, who consider "Iroquois" of colonial origin and a derogatory name adopted from their enemies.

Haudenosaunee derives from two phonetically similar but etymologically distinct words in the Seneca language: Hodínöhšö:ni:h, meaning "those of the extended house," and Hodínöhsö:ni:h, meaning "house builders".The name "Haudenosaunee" first appears in English in Lewis Henry Morgan's work (1851), where he writes it as Ho-dé-no-sau-nee. The spelling "Hotinnonsionni" is also attested from later in the nineteenth century. An alternative designation, Ganonsyoni, is occasionally encountered as well,from the Mohawk kanǫhsyǫ·ni ("the extended house"), or from a cognate expression in a related Iroquoian language; in earlier sources it is variously spelled "Kanosoni", "akwanoschioni", "Aquanuschioni", "Cannassoone", "Canossoone", "Ke-nunctioni", or "Konossioni".More transparently, the Iroquois confederacy is often referred to as the Six Nations (or, for the period before the entry of the Tuscarora in 1722, the Five Nations).The word is "Rotinonshón:ni" in the Mohawk language.”

>> I’ve put this section on purpose to show anons how original, true names of many cultures, people, civilizations and nations were twisted, mutated and changed by Westerners. Started to happen in a big way since the Greeks and it continued to the Romans till our days. Ever since that time, mostly nowadays Westerners call the Non Westerners nations/people what is fitting to them and not as the names truly are. Sometimes this is done on purpose and sometimes this is pure misunderstanding and lack of knowledge of that culture/people. Language can be confusing too, as in plays a major role in this. But apart the language, I’m mostly pointing to how Westerners like to project and reflect their own ideas and culture onto others which are not like them. And this is wrong because it changes the origins and disfigures FACTS. We’ve already encountered this way of approach of Westerners to non-Westerners civilizations before in this thread; like for example how the Phoenicians truly called themselves and how the West calls them because of the Greeks. Another example is the Armenians and how it’s the same thing taking place there.

I personally attach a great importance to etymology and mostly to know the original, true name of other cultures and civilizations = as they call themselves. This is very important because it can hide/hold clues to their origins and real identity. Depending on the case, we can also identify them sometimes to which Sebetti Clan they originated from; it’s not always the case, but sometimes it happens.

“Iroquois Confederation

[…]

History

[…]

Society

[…]”

>> If anons are interested in these sections, please use the link. I’m skipping them because they bring nothing we need in this thread.

• Page 2 302 –

>>16654797

(Please read from the start)

“Women in society

The Iroquois have historically followed a matriarchal system. Men and women have traditionally had separate roles but both hold real power in the Nations. No person is entitled to 'own' land, but it is believed that the Creator appointed women as stewards of the land. Traditionally, the Clan Mothers appoint leaders, as they have raised children and are therefore held to a higher regard. By the same token, if a leader does not prove sound, becomes corrupt or does not listen to the people, the Clan Mothers have the power to strip him of his leadership. The chief of a clan can be removed at any time by a council of the women elders of that clan. The chief's sister has historically been responsible for nominating his successor. The clan mothers, the elder women of each clan, are highly respected.

The Iroquois have traditionally followed a matrilineal system, and hereditary leadership passes through the female line of descent, that is, from a mother to her children. The children of a traditional marriage belong to their mother's clan and gain their social status through hers. Her brothers are important teachers and mentors to the children, especially introducing boys to men's roles and societies. If a couple separates, the woman traditionally keeps the children. It is regarded as incest by the Iroquois to marry within one's matrilineal clan, but considered acceptable to marry someone from the same patrilineal clan.

Historically women have held the dwellings, horses and farmed land, and a woman's property before marriage has stayed in her possession without being mixed with that of her husband. The work of a woman's hands is hers to do with as she sees fit.

Historically, at marriage, a young couple lived in the longhouse of the wife's family (matrilocality). A woman choosing to divorce a shiftless or otherwise unsatisfactory husband is able to ask him to leave the dwelling and take his possessions with him.”

>> I’m always interested in Matriarchal societies because we used to have 2 female Sebetti rulers. So by reading about the Matriarchal societies worldwide I’m hoping to get a projection/mirroring of how the female Sebetti ruling system was.

“Spiritual beliefs

Like many cultures, the Iroquois' spiritual beliefs changed over time and varied across tribes. Generally, the Iroquois believed in numerous deities, including the Great Spirit, the Thunderer, and the Three Sisters (the spirits of beans, maize, and squash). The Great Spirit was thought to have created plants, animals, and humans to control "the forces of good in nature", and to guide ordinary people. Orenda was the Iroquoian name for the magical potence found in people and their environment. The Iroquois believed in the orenda, the spiritual force that flowed through all things, and believed if people were respectful of nature, then the orenda would be harnessed to bring about positive results. There were three types of spirits for the Iroquois: 1) Those living on the earth 2) Those living above the earth and 3) the highest level of spirits controlling the universe from high above with the highest of those beings known variously as the Great Spirit, the Great Creator or the Master of Life.”

>> We’ve already seen the Great Spirit. The Thunderer is obvious. I have no idea whom the 3 Sisters might be: it could be 3 persons with special abilities from any of the clans, as in maybe 3 warriors or 3 oracles or 3 Spiritual Healers etc. Orenda seem to be what we call the Holy Spirit or the Light.

• Page 2 303 –

>>16654801

(Please read from the start)

The 3 types of Spirit mentioned by the Iroquois are interesting. We all agree what the first one means. But what does the other 2 mean:

Those living above the earth: does this mean there is something floating in space where these Spirits live? Sounds like it, doesn’t it? And this idea isn’t strange or new to us in this thread as we’ve encountered it many times before, mostly with Anu living UP somewhere and the floating mountain we read about where the Native American ThunderBirds dwell.

The last type of Spirit mention sounds like it’s our Heavenly Father. Read carefully what is said about Him: “the highest level of spirits controlling the universe from high above with the highest of those beings known variously as the Great Spirit, the Great Creator or the Master of Life.” From the sound of it, it looks like our Heavenly Father is in a place which is even higher or ABOVE the SKY or the mountain floating in the SKY where the King of kings used to live. When you think about what could be ABOVE the SKY…the only thing that comes to my mind is the Universe. I don’t know why, but this reminds me of the Qteam said something like “considering the vastness of the Universe”.

“Sources provide different stories about Iroquois creation beliefs. Brascoupé and Etmanskie focus on the first person to walk the earth, called the Skywoman or Aientsik. Aientsik's daughter Tekawerahkwa gave birth to twins, Tawiskaron, who created vicious animals and river rapids, while Okwiraseh created "all that is pure and beautiful". After a battle where Okwiraseh defeated Tawiskaron, Tawiskaron was confined to "the dark areas of the world", where he governed the night and destructive creatures. Other scholars present the "twins" as the Creator and his brother, Flint. The Creator was responsible for game animals, while Flint created predators and disease. Saraydar (1990) suggests the Iroquois do not see the twins as polar opposites but understood their relationship to be more complex, noting "Perfection is not to be found in gods or humans or the worlds they inhabit.”

>> There are 3 possible interpretations for this story:

1 – It might be referring to the Evil One when he was a good Sebetti and then when he turned evil. It might be referring to the same Sebetti ruler but in 2 of his aspects: one when he was good, and one when he turned evil.

2 – It might be referring to the Evil Couple, the twins.

3 – It might be pointing to the Evil One and the Crown Prince of Atlantis; as in the Sebetti ruler of the Serpent versus the Sebetti ruler of the ThunderBirds: One representing darkness and evil; while the other representing Light and good.

While this sentence: “After a battle where Okwiraseh defeated Tawiskaron, Tawiskaron was confined to "the dark areas of the world", where he governed the night and destructive creatures.” It’s talking about the ancient past, the night of the coup when the Evil One was defeated by the head of the ThunderBirds warriors and how he was cast “down” into eternal darkness. It resonates with what it is said happened to Satan when he “fell” from Heaven.

• Page 2 304 –

>>16654811

(Please read from the start)

“Descriptions of Iroquois spiritual history consistently refer to dark times of terror and misery prior to the Iroquois Confederacy, ended by the arrival of the Great Peacemaker. Tradition asserts that the Peacemaker demonstrated his authority as the Creator's messenger by climbing a tall tree above a waterfall, having the people cut down the tree, and reappearing the next morning unharmed. The Peacemaker restored mental health to a few of the most "violent and dangerous men", Ayonhwatha and Thadodaho, who then helped him bear the message of peace to others.”

>> I don’t know why but this sounds like Viracocha/Bochica . We know he traveled and taught humans civilization, culture and law. There are indications in the few words that this IS Viracocha; like:

• Arrival = as in he wasn’t there initial but traveled there.

• Dark times of terror and misery = it was chaotic before he came and people weren’t in a good situation, I think regarding to food, which caused misery.

• Great Peacemaker = he wasn’t your average peacemaker, but a GREAT one. Do you know of a greater person on earth than a Sebetti ruler? Do you know a peacemaker other than a Sebetti ruler of the Light? Christ is one of them = he is King of kings.

• Demonstrating his authority = to demonstrate authority, doesn’t this mean to show power? So he showed his power but didn’t use it to harm the people. What does that tell you?

• As the Creator’s messenger = so he presented himself as the “messenger” of the Creator = our Heavenly Father. And that is exactly what the Sebetti rulers are; they are the BRIDGE which connects us to our Heavenly Father.

• Restored mental health to a FEW of the most “violent and dangerous men” = isn’t this indicating Spiritual Healing; healing with the Holy Spirit? Notice that NOT ALL but a FEW were healed. As I’ve said before, all Sebetti rulers have the Light in them, but the most powerful one amongst them was the King of kings. It’s very possible that the other Sebetti rulers also had Spiritual Healing powers but of course not as strong as that of the King of kings.

I don’t know about you anons, but all of these hints are indicating this is Viracocha = the Sebetti ruler whom landed in the Andean Region. We already discovered that he had helpers as seen on the gateway of the Sun in Tiwanaku; so Ayonhwatha and Thadodaho might very well be just that = his helpers we see depicted with him.

We’ve already discovered part of Viracocha itinerary before in this thread as we managed to trace him back all the way to Mexico. And now we have additional indications pointing that he arrived all the way up to the Canadian-American border.

The only thing that I don’t know is what is mentioned about the tree and the waterfall. This might be pointing to some type of extraordinary “miracle” like thing he did, but I have no idea what it might be. There is also a slight possibility the tree mentioned here could be pointing to the Tree of Life; but I don’t understand how it fits in this story here.

• Page 2 305 –

>>16654845

(Please read from the start)

“After the arrival of the Europeans, some Iroquois became Christians, among them the first Native American Saint, Kateri Tekakwitha, a young woman of Mohawk-Algonquin parents. The Seneca sachem Handsome Lake, also known as Ganeodiyo, introduced a new religious system to the Iroquois in the late 18th century, which incorporated Quaker beliefs along with traditional Iroquoian culture. Handsome Lake's teachings include a focus on parenting, appreciation of life, and peace. A key aspect of Handsome Lake's teachings is the principle of equilibrium, wherein each person's talents combined into a functional community. By the 1960s, at least 50% of Iroquois followed this religion.

Dreams play a significant role in Iroquois spirituality, providing information about a person's desires and prompting individuals to fulfill dreams. To communicate upward, humans can send prayers to spirits by burning tobacco.”

>> I’m not surprised to hear there are saints among the Native Americans, regardless to which Nation/culture they belong to or the age they lived in. We all have the Light in us, all that needs to be done is to activate that Light. The Native Americans are very close to the Spirit in their culture, so they have a higher tendency to activate their Light than the rest of us = their culture is like a good environment enable the Light; for most of them, anyways.

As for dreams, well, we know a lot of people with the Light communicate through dreams. When we take a look at the saints, we will notice that there is a number of them whom communicated with the Light through dreams. Some were awake as well. We’ve already seen Saint Paisios and mostly Saint Charbel communicate through dreams with Christ themselves; and then, in turn, after becoming Saints = after their death, they themselves communicated with people via dreams as one of the many ways of communication they used. Anons can either dig about this or go back to what I’ve posted about them and re-read that section.

The Dark side also practices communication with Dark Spirit via dreams as well as other methods, such as entering into trances or taking hallucinogenic stuff. As we’ve seen in some cases before in this thread, even alcohol was used to try to communicate with the “other side”.

“Iroquois ceremonies are primarily concerned with farming, healing, and thanksgiving. Key festivals correspond to the agricultural calendar, and include Maple, Planting, Strawberry, Green Maize, Harvest, and Mid-Winter (or New Year's), which is held in early February.The ceremonies were given by the Creator to the Iroquois to balance good with evil. In the 17th century, Europeans described the Iroquois as having 17 festivals, but only 8 are observed today.The most important of the ceremonies were the New Year Festival, the Maple Festival held in late March to celebrate spring, the Sun Shooting Festival which also celebrates spring, the Seed Dance in May to celebrate the planting of the crops, the Strawberry Festival in June to celebrate the ripening of the strawberries, the Thunder Ceremony to bring rain in July, the Green Bean Festival in early August, the Green Corn Festival in late August and the Harvest Festival in October. Of all the festivals, the most important were the Green Corn Festival to celebrate the maturing of the corn and the New Year Festival. During all of the festivals, men and women from the False Face Society, the Medicine Society and the Husk Face Society would dance wearing their masks in attempt to humor the spirits that controlled nature.The most important of the occasions for the masked dancers to appear were the New Year Festival, which was felt to be an auspicious occasion to chase the malevolent spirits that were believed to cause disease.”

• Page 2 306 –

>>16654850

(Please read from the start)

“During healing ceremonies, a carved "False Face Mask" is worn to represent spirits in a tobacco-burning and prayer ritual. False Face Masks are carved in living trees, then cut free to be painted and decorated. False Faces represent grandfathers of the Iroquois, and are thought to reconnect humans and nature and to frighten illness-causing spirits. The False Face Society continues today among modern Iroquois. The Iroquois have three different medical societies. The False Face Company conducts rituals to cure sick people by driving away spirits; the Husk Face Society is made up of those who had dreams seen as messages from the spirits and the Secret Medicine Society likewise conducts rituals to cure the sick. There are 12 different types of masks worn by the societies. The types of masks are: A) The Secret Society of Medicine Men and the Company of Mystic Animals: 1) Divided mask that painted half black and half red; 2) Masks with exaggerated long noses; 3) Horn masks; 4) Blind masks without eye sockets. B) Husk Face Society: 5) Masks made of braided corn. C) False Face Society: 6) Whistling masks; 7) Masks with smiling faces; 8) Masks with protruding tongues; 9) Masks with exaggerated hanging mouths; 10) Masks with exaggerated straight lops; 11) Masks with spoon-lips; 12) Masks with a disfigured twisted mouth. The "crooked face" masks with the twisted mouths, the masks with the spoon lips and the whistling masks are the Doctor masks. The other masks are "Common Face" or "Beggar" masks that are worn by those who help the Doctors. The Husk Face Society performs rituals to communicate with the spirits in nature to ensure a good crop, the False Face Society performs rituals to chase away evil spirits and the Secret Medicine Society performs rituals to cure diseases. The grotesque masks represent the faces of the spirits that the dancers are attempting to please. Those wearing Doctor masks blow hot ashes into the faces of the sick to chase away the evil spirits that are believed to be causing the illness. The masked dancers often carried turtle shell rattles and long staffs.”

>> This paragraph reminds me of the Punic masks found in the necropolis of Carthage, which had grimaces showing in order to scare away tomb robber and evil spirits.

“Condolence ceremonies are conducted by the Iroquois for both ordinary and important people, but most notably when sachems died. Such ceremonies were still held on Iroquois reservations as late as the 1970s. After death, the soul is thought to embark on a journey, undergo a series of ordeals, and arrive in the sky world. This journey is thought to take one year, during which the Iroquois mourn for the dead. After the mourning period, a feast is held to celebrate the soul's arrival in the skyworld.

"Keepers of the faith" are part-time specialists who conduct religious ceremonies. Both men and women can be appointed as keepers of the faith by tribe elders.

Haudenosaunee thanksgiving address

The Haudenosaunee thanksgiving address is a central prayer in Haudenosaunee tradition recited daily in the beginning of school days as well as social, cultural, and political events.The address gives thanks to the parts of nature necessary to ecosystem sustainability and emphasizes the ideology that all animals within an ecosystem are connected and each plays a vital role in it.

The phrasing of the address may vary depending on the speaker but is usually composed of 17 main sections and ends with a closing prayer. The 17 main sections are: 1) The people, 2) The Earth Mother, 3) The waters, 4) The fish, 5) plants, 6) food plants,7) medicine herbs, 8) animals, 9) trees, 10) birds, 11) four winds, 12) The Thunderers, 13) The Sun, 14) Grandmother Moon, 15) The stars, 16) The Enlightened Teachers, and 17) The Creator. Within each section, gratitude is given for the gifts that section provides to humanity.

[…]”

>> That’s very nice. It’s mostly about the Clans of the Light.

• Page 2 307 –

>>16654857

(Please read from the start)

“Cannibalism

Although the Iroquois are sometimes mentioned as examples of groups who practiced cannibalism, the evidence is mixed as to whether such a practice could be said to be widespread among the Six Nations, and to whether it was a notable cultural feature. Some anthropologists have found evidence of ritual torture and cannibalism at Iroquois sites, for example, among the Onondaga in the sixteenth century.However, other scholars, most notably anthropologist William Arens in his controversial book, The Man-Eating Myth, have challenged the evidence, suggesting the human bones found at sites point to funerary practices, asserting that if cannibalism was practiced among the Iroquois, it was not widespread.Modern anthropologists seem to accept the probability that cannibalism did exist among the Iroquois,with Thomas Abler describing the evidence from the Jesuit Relations and archaeology as making a "case for cannibalism in early historic times … so strong that it cannot be doubted." Scholars are also urged to remember the context for a practice that now shocks the modern Western society. Sanday reminds us that the ferocity of the Iroquois' rituals "cannot be separated from the severity of conditions … where death from hunger, disease, and warfare became a way of life".”

>> I cannot say much about this. I’m no expert and I’m far away from examining the bones. So I don’t know. In general the Iroquois give me the impression they worship the Light Clans, mostly the Great Spirit and the ThunderBirds; so cannibalism doesn’t fit in with the Light. Unless there is one Nation that is different from the others in the Iroquois Confederacy. Or another possibility is that SOME members were practicing this in secret. Also we can also assume this to be tales invented either by the Iroquois themselves to scare away the Westerners, or by the Westerners themselves exaggerated and classified every Native American they met as cannibals, regardless if it’s true or false.

“The missionaries Johannes Megapolensis, François-Joseph Bressani, and the fur trader Pierre-Esprit Radisson present first-hand accounts of cannibalism among the Mohawk. A common theme is ritualistic roasting and eating the heart of a captive who has been tortured and killed."To eat your enemy is to perform an extreme form of physical dominance."

[…]”

>> I’m not familiar with these sources, but I think they should be checked if they are authentic in what they are reporting or if it’s part of the paid experts whom have an agenda and marching orders from the Bloodlines to destroy the public image of the Iroquois. And from the sound of it, IF it turns out that cannibalism was practiced, it’s not ALL the Iroquois nations whom practiced it, but one. Again, I’m saying IF it turned out to be case. It’s better to verify this for those whom are interested in such subjects.

Thinking about it, I find many reasons why the Westerners wanted to tarnish the public image of the Iroquois, starting with the monopoly of the fur trade they can have if they take over the trade from the Iroquois. Yup! Greed can be considered a reason why the Iroquois MIGHT have been falsely accused of cannibalism. I’m not sure but if it’s the case or not though. Another reason can be ignorance of the Westerners and them seeing all non Westerners as Savages and barbaric.

• Page 2 308 –

>>16654865

(Please read from the start)

Let’s take a closer look to the Iroquois mythology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois_mythology

“Much of the mythology of the Iroquois (a confederacy of originally Five, later Six Nations of Native Americans) has been preserved, including creation stories and some folktales. Stories were recorded in wampum and recited, only being written down later. The spellings of names differed as transliteration varies and spellings even in European languages were not entirely regularized. Different versions of some stories exist, reflecting different localities and different times. It is possible that the written versions were influenced by Christianity.”

>> So we didn’t get it in its pure form.

“Oral traditions

The Iroquois passed down their stories through oral tradition. Through the stories, listeners learned values, laws, and acceptable behaviors in their community. The stories were also used as a form of entertainment for the Iroquois and preserved their culture as they passed down their narratives. The stories reflected their beliefs of how they perceived and understood the world, told through expressive storytelling. Traditionally, the stories were poetic and delivered in metaphors. However, the translation of these stories often loses the expressive qualities which existed in the original language.

Each village had a storyteller who was responsible for learning all the stories by heart. No stories were ever told during the summer months to not break the law of the Jo-ga-oh. Violators who ignored the warning were said to suffer greater evils.

"Girl Who Was Not Satisfied" is an example of a traditional story about how a girl ran off with a man for his looks. The moral of the story is that people should be judged based on their character and not their looks. The story also teaches people the importance of valuing what they already have.”

>> It’s to preserve their history and acts like a moral code. This was the case for all oral tradition from all over the world.

"The Twin Gods" is an example story about the behaviors and morals of people. The two twins personify good and evil. The good twin is born normally, helped by its people, and brought good things to the world, while the evil twin had killed its mother and brought dangerous and destructive things into the world.”

>> This has more than one interpretation to it as I’ve explained before in page 2 291.

• Page 2 309 –

>>16654868

(Please read from the start)

“Creation

This version of the creation story is taken from Converse

The Earth was a thought in the mind of the ruler of a great island floating above the clouds. This ruler was called by various names, among them Ha-wen-ni-yu, meaning He who governs or The Ruler. The island is a place of calm where all needs are provided and there is no pain or death. On this island grew a great apple tree where the inhabitants held council. The Ruler said "let us make a new place where another people can grow. Under our council tree is a great sea of clouds which calls out for light." He ordered the council tree to be uprooted and he looked down into the depths. He had Ata-en-sic, Sky Woman, look down. He heard the voice of the sea calling; he told Ata-en-sic, who was pregnant, to bring it life. He wrapped her in light and dropped her down through the hole.”

>> This is truly amazing! Ata-en-sic seems like she’s Neith. She is Sky Woman because she is head of the Lamassu clan which can fly. She was pregnant. To come down from that floating island she was wrapped in light = that’s the Beam of Light with swirling electricity I’ve talked about so many times in this thread. But what about the Tree? Is it the Castle or Palace where the King of kings lived? When taking a look at Inanna in the Epic of Gilgamesh it was said that she wanted to crave a new throne from the tree; I already explained it as in she wanted new powers or a new kingdom for her = it could be pointing to the coup. We also read in that epic that the Anzu bird flew away from the tree it was residing in along with its kid. There was also a snake/serpent which settled itself in the tree.

“All the birds and animals who lived in the great cloud sea were panicked. The Duck asked "where can it rest?" "Only the earth can hold it," replied the Beaver—the oeh-dah from the bottom of our great sea—"I will get some." The Beaver dove down, but never came up. Then the Duck tried, but its dead body floated to the surface. Many of the other birds and animals tried and failed. Finally, the Muskrat returned with some earth in his paws. "It's heavy", he said, "who can support it?" The Turtle volunteered, and the earth was placed on top of his shell. When the earth was ready the birds flew up and carried Ata-en-sic on their wings to the Turtle's back.

This is how Hah-nu-nah, the Turtle, came to be the earth bearer. When he moves the sea gets rough and the earth shakes.”

>> This is not the first time we hear the earth being carried on the back of an animal. We saw such tales from the other parts of the Americas.When I read this Creation myth from the Iroquois, I am reminded of the Flood and how the land emerged slowly. This myth might be a projection/reflection of that.

“The Do-ya-no-do

Once brought to at the surface, the oeh-dah grew and became an island. Ata-en-sic heard two voices under her heart and knew her time had come. One voice was calm and quiet, but the other was loud and angry. These were the Do-yo-da-no, The Twins. The good twin, Hah-gweh-di-yu or Teharonhiakwako, was born in the normal way. The evil twin, Hä-qweh-da-ět-gǎh or Sawiskera, forced his way out from under his mother's arm, killing her.”

>> We already know that Neith survived the Cataclysm and lead the war against the Horned Serpent clan and their leader = the Evil Lady. So I don’t think we should take this word to word but I think this is a projection that one of the “twins” was evil and he liked to kill.

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>>16654891

(Please read from the start)

“After the death of Sky Woman the island was shrouded in gloom. Hah-gweh-di-yu shaped the sky and created the sun from his mother's face saying "you shall rule here where your face will shine forever." Hä-qweh-da-ět-gǎh, however, set the great darkness in the west to drive down the sun. Hah-gweh-di-yu then took the Moon and Stars from his mother's breast, and placed them, his sisters, to guard the night sky. He gave his mother's body to the earth, the Great Mother from whom all life came.

Ga-gaah, the Crow, came from the sun land carrying a grain of corn in his ear. Hah-gweh-di-yu planted the corn above his mother's body, and it became the first grain. Ga-gaah hovers over the corn fields, guarding them from harm but also claiming his share.

Hah-gweh-di-yu, corresponding to the Huron spirit Ioskeha, created the first people. He healed disease, defeated demons, and gave many of the Iroquois magical and ceremonial rituals. Another of his gifts was tobacco, which has been used as a central part of the Iroquois religion.

Hah-gweh-di-yu is aided by a number of assistant or subordinate spirits.”

>> It’s very obvious here anons ,you don’t need me to explain things. But I have one comment: I think the world was created and people lived in it first, then the Cataclysm happened which destroyed, mutilated and totally changed the world. The world before the Cataclysm was totally different from the world after it. So I don’t think the Creation story here comes to us in its pure form since the sun, the moon, the stars and the rest were created long ago, before the Cataclysm occurred.

“Hé-no

Hé-no is the spirit of thunder. He is represented as a man dressed as a warrior, wearing on his head a magic feather that makes him invulnerable to the attacks of Hah-gweh-di-yu. On his back he carries a basket filled with pieces of chert which he launches at evil spirits and witches. It is the responsibility of Hé-no to bring rain to nourish the crops. The Iroquois address Hé-no as Tisote (Grandfather).”

>> It’s very obvious whom this is or should I say in plural = whom these are. It’s the ThunderBird warriors.

“He once lived in a cave under Niagara Falls. At that time a young girl living above the falls was engaged to marry a disagreeable old man. Rather than marry him she climbed into a canoe and headed down the river. The girl and the canoe were carried over the falls; the canoe was seen falling to destruction, but the girl disappeared. Hé-no and his two (nameless) assistants caught her in a blanket and brought her back to his cave. One of the assistants, taken with her beauty, married her.”

>> I’m not surprised to hear that a ThunderBird (along with his assistants here) was living in a cave near a water source. We’ve seen this plenty of times when taking a look at the sites in Phoenicia. Caves were used by the Clan of the ThunderBirds to live in. They also carved in mother rocks, as seen many times in this thread, to make them look like dwellings. I’ve also been suspecting this to have happened, in some shape or form, in the vicinity of Lake Titicaca in the Andean Region; before the survivors (or their direct descendants) built the City-State of Tiwanaku.

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>>16654908

(Please read from the start)

“Later Hé-no rescued her village from a huge serpent which was devastating it with disease. He lured the serpent to a spot on Buffalo Creek where he struck it with a thunderbolt. Fatally wounded, the serpent tried to escape to the safety of Lake Erie, but died before he could get away. His body floated downstream and stuck at the head of Niagara Falls, stretching nearly across the river and arching backward. The dammed up water broke the rocks, and the whole verge of the Falls along with the snake's body fell onto the rocks below. The break formed Horseshoe Falls, but in the process destroyed Hé-no's home.”

>> Oh boy! This is exiting. It’s obvious here a battle took place between a Horned Serpent warrior and a ThunderBird warrior and the last one won. What is exiting is the cave where the ThunderBird has supposedly lived. Unfortunately, I’m sure the Bloodlines have explored and “emptied” it if there was ANYTHING in the cave, long ago (old pictures are there to show the caves were explored long ago). But nonetheless, it’s still exiting to see for one’s self where a ThunderBird lived. If you plan to visit one day, always be careful in such places because they could be very dangerous, even to experienced persons in cave exploring.

“The Dé-oh-há- ko

The name means Our Life or Our Supporters. Often called "Three Sisters" they are the spirits of corn, beans, and squash. They have the form of beautiful maidens who are fond of each other and like to live near each other. This is an analogy to the plants which grow up together, sometimes from the same hill.

One day while O-na-tah, the spirit of the corn, was wandering alone she was captured by Hä-qweh-da-ět-gǎh. Hä-qweh-da-ět-gǎh sent one of his monsters to devastate the fields, and the other sisters ran away. Hä-qweh-da-ět-gǎh held O-na-tah captive in darkness under the earth until a searching ray of sunl o the surface. Here she wept over the devastation of her fields and her abandonment by her two sisters. She vowed that she would never again leave her fields, and now she guards them alone, without the presence of her sisters.”

>> This myth might be a projection of a battle with a Horned Serpent warrior, but it seems fragmented and didn’t reach us in its original form.

“The Jo-ga-oh

The Jo-gä-oh, the "Little People", are invisible nature spirits, similar to the fairies of European myth. The Jo-ga-oh protect and guide all the natural world and protect the people from unseen hidden enemies.

There are three tribes of Jo-gä-oh.

The Ga-hon-ga inhabit the rivers and rocks. They live in rocky caves beside the streams and have great strength despite their small stature. They enjoy feats of strength, and have a fondness for inviting people to their habitations to compete in contests. They enjoy playing ball with rocks, tossing them high out of sight in the air, and so they are often called "Stone Throwers".

The Gan-da-yah protect and advise the fruits and grains. Their special gift is the strawberry plant; in the spring they loosen the earth so that the plant can grow. They turn the leaves toward the sun and guide the runners. The ripening of strawberries marks the spring festival. The Ho-non-di-ont, the "Company of Faith Keepers", hold dances of thanksgiving at night, with special thanks to the Jo-gä-oh for the strawberries.”

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>>16654915

(Please read from the start)

“Throughout the growing season the Gan-da-yah guard the crops against disease and other pests.

They sometimes visit the people in the form of birds: a robin for good news, an owl for a warning, a bat bringing news of an immanent life-and-death struggle.

The most minute harmless insect or worm may be the bearer of important "talk" from the "Little People" and is not destroyed for the "trail is broad enough for all".

The Oh-do-was inhabit the shadowy places under the earth. In this underworld there are forests and animals, including a white buffalo. The Oh-do-was guard against poisonous snakes and creatures of death that try to escape from the underworld. From time to time the Oh-do-was emerge from the underworld at night into the world above. There they hold festivals and dance in rings around trees in the forest where the grass afterwards doesn't grow.”

>> I honestly don’t think real fairies exist like that. There is a possibility these might be dwarves or should I say short people or warriors of the Light. They are good and they are helping people around and protecting them from Horned Serpent attacks. If you think this is not possible, then I would like to remind you that Bes from Ancient Egypt was a dwarf and he was a warrior from the Feline Clan. All, I’m saying is that it’s possible to have a similar case here but it got mutated with the younger generation and the dwarves were understood to be fairies. Again, I’m stressing out this is a possibility.

The last paragraph is fascinating as it brings forth once more the idea of humans or beings living underground; or as some call it’s about the hollow earth theory. It’s also said that there is a creature of death which is trying to escape from the underworld but Oh-do-was is kinda preventing this from happening because he is guarding against such evil beings. It’s very interesting, isn’t it anons? Is this referring to where the Evil One is “trapped”? Just thinking loud here.

“Gǎ-oh and the winds

Gǎ-oh is the personification of the wind. A giant, he is an "instrumentality through whom the Great Spirit moves the elements". His home is in the far northern sky. Here he controls the four winds: north wind (Bear), west wind (Panther), east wind (Moose), and south wind (Fawn).

The North Wind is personified by a bear spirit named Ya-o-gah. Ya-o-gah could destroy the world with his fiercely cold breath, but is kept in check by Gǎ-oh. Ne-o-ga, the fawn, is the south wind, "gentle, and kind as the sunbeam". The West Wind, the panther Da-jo-ji, "can climb the high mountains, and tear down the forests… carry the whirlwind on [his] back, and toss the great sea waves high in the air, and snarl at the tempests" O-yan-do-ne, the moose, is the East Wind, who blows his breath "to chill the young clouds as they float through the sky".”

>> Gǎ-oh is a ThunderBird. I wonder if the 4 types of wind mentioned here are 4 types of attacks of the ThunderBird.

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>>16654927

(Please read from the start)

“So-son-do-wah

So-son-do-wah was a great hunter, known for stalking a supernatural elk. He was captured by Dawn, a goddess who needed him as a watchman. He fell in love with Gendenwitha ("she who brings the day"; alternate spelling: Gendewitha), a human woman. He tried to woo her with a song. In spring, he sang as a bluebird, in summer as a blackbird and in autumn as a hawk, who then tried to take Gendenwitha with him to the sky. Dawn tied him to her doorpost. She changed Gendenwitha into the Morning Star, so the hunter could watch her all night but never be with her.”

>> This is rather interesting. He changed into many birds to woo a lady. And she changed him into the morning star. It’s obvious this myth didn’t retain its original form. It’s faintly connected to a distant past.

“Flying Head

The Flying Head (moh:Kanontsistóntie's) is a monster in the form of a giant disembodied head as tall as a man. It is covered with thick hair, has long black wings and long sharp claws. It comes at night to the homes of widows and orphans, beats its wings on the walls of the houses, and issues terrifying cries in an unknown language. A few days after its visit death claims one of the family. The Seneca name Dagwanoenyent means "whirlwind".”

>> We’ve already seen this one.

“Djodi'kwado

Djodi'kwado' was a horned serpent who inhabited the depths of rivers and lakes. He was capable of taking on the form of a man and seducing young women. He features prominently in the tales "The Horned Serpent Runs Away with a Young Wife who is Rescued by the Thunderer"and "Thunder Destroys Horned Snake".In "The Great Serpent and the Young Wife" he appears as a helpful being, although his help proves less than useful. He was attacked and may have been killed by Hé-no.”

>> No need for me to explain here.

“Tuscarora legend

Virginia surveyor William Byrd II, in his History of the Dividing Line Betwixt North Carolina and Virginia (1728), recorded a tradition of a former religious leader, which had been current among the Tuscarora tribe. They were an Iroquoian-speaking tribe historically settled in North Carolina that, because of warfare, migrated to join the rest of the Iroquois Confederacy in New York.”

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>>16654931

(Please read from the start)

“[H]owever, their God, being unwilling to root them out for their crimes, did them the honour to send a Messenger from Heaven to instruct them, and set Them a perfect Example of Integrity and kind Behavior towards one another. But this holy Person, with all his Eloquence and Sanctity of Life, was able to make very little Reformation amongst them. Some few Old Men did listen a little to his Wholesome Advice, but all the Young fellows were quite incorrigible. They not only Neglected his Precepts, but derided and Evil Entreated his Person. At last, taking upon him to reprove some Young Rakes of the Conechta Clan very sharply for their impiety, they were so provok'd at the Freedom of his Rebukes, that they tied him to a Tree, and shot him with Arrows through the Heart. But their God took instant vengeance on all who had a hand in that Monstrous Act, by Lightning from Heaven, & has ever since visited their Nation with a continued Train of Calamities, nor will he ever leave off punishing, and wasting their people, till he shall have blotted every living Soul of them out of the World.”

>> I have a huge smile on my face. This is Viracocha with his staff striking lightning here. We’ve already talked a bit about this deity before. Here we have more details as to what happened.The person whom wrote this is very biased though and he very clearly dislikes the Native Americans.

“The Three Brothers Who Followed the Sun under the Sky's Rim

This is an Iroquois sun myth based on three brothers who tire of being on earth and decide to chase the sun and end up in the sky. Two of the three brothers succeed with the third succeeding in spirit only. The Sun Spirit remakes and tests the two brothers, who end up staying in the realm of the sky for many years. They miss their home and end up returning, only to find that many years have passed. With mostly everything they knew either changed or gone, they long to return to the realm of the sky, which happened when they were both struck by lightning as earthly perils could not harm them.”

>> I could be wrong, but this sounds like 3 ThunderBirds.

This is it for this Wikipedia page.

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>>16654932

(Please read from the start)

I have also found Iroquois Creation myth from another source. I’m going to put it, it’s very interesting and I will only comment when it’s about something we haven’t talked about before: facweb.st-agnes.org/home/pmcfarlin/html/IroquoisCreationStory.html

“The Iroquois Creation Story1

A Tale of the Foundation of the Great Island, Now North America; the Two Infants Born, and the Creation of the Universe (rec. 1827)

Among the ancients there were two worlds in existence. The lower world was in great darkness;—the possession of the great monster; but the upper world was inhabited by humankind; and there was a woman conceived and would have the twin born. When her travail drew near, and her situation seemed to produce a great distress on her mind, and she was induced by some of her relations to lay herself on a mattress which was prepared, so as to gain refreshments to her wearied body; but while she was asleep the very place sunk down towards the dark world.”

>> Oh boy! Oh boy! The big 3 notables in bold red:

1 – We have an upper world and a lower world. The upper world was already inhabited by “humans” but not the lower one; this one was in great darkness.

2 – The mattress she laid in order to gain refreshments to her wearied body: doesn’t this sound like the Med Beds we’ve talked about in this thread before. It reminds me of the Stargate movie where Ra sleeps in his special “bed” to rejuvenates himself and repair his body. Here, it sounds exactly the same thing. But I guess since the Native American didn’t know what a Med Bed is, then, they worded it this way. Of course, we must note the birth of the twins.

3 – It’s while she was asleep that the place she was in, SUNK DOWN into the lower dark word. Here it can mean 3 things:

A - We can take the meaning in a literal way and say that the upper world sank while she was sleeping or taking a nap. But I really doubt it’s as simple as her sleeping peacefully because for the upper world to sink it means something very big and bad happened for it to “fall” and sink. In other words something like a catastrophe must have had happened which will wake any person sleeping if it occurred. What made the upper world sink is none other than the Cataclysm I’ve been talking about in this thread and I can assure you not a single person would sleep like a lamb while that was taking place. So I don’t think this is to be taken literally.

B – For such a great calamity to occur = the upper world falling and sinking into the dark lower world and the lady in question not waking up while she seems to be sleeping in a Med Bed…this got me thinking her sleep might have been artificially induced. Could she be in some sort of hibernation? When the Med Bed is repairing the body, does it lead to some sort of “forced state of sleep”? If not, is it something like coma?

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>>16654942

(Please read from the start)

C – The last possibility is that “her sleep” is not pointing to the act of sleeping but to the time of the day, as in we sleep during the NIGHT. Humans do the act of sleeping mostly at night = to rest, while they are active during the day – not much sleep done during the day, unless you take a nap. So here, it could mean that the upper world sunk when it was the time to sleep = night time.

We also know that during night time, we sleep so that our body can recover. So does this mean the first possibility (A) was wrong? Well, maybe, or maybe not. See, when we sleep, it’s automatically considered to recover our body and we don’t need to say it out loud and mention it. It’s a natural process. So why mention that she needed to sleep in order to recover if it’s already done naturally? I think it’s because the sort of recovery pointed to here is beyond the “normal/standard” recovery done when you are asleep = using a Med Bed.

Also, when I regroup this piece of information with the rest of what I found in the other sources from other parts in the world, it’s more than clear that the Cataclysm was trigger = the explosion happened during the night or at most, at the early moments of dawn. So, this passage also fits into that story of how the Cataclysm was triggered when they say that the upper world sunk while she was asleep.

“The monsters of the great water were alarmed at her appearance of descending to the lower world; in consequence all the species of the creatures were immediately collected into where it was expected she would fall. When the monsters were assembled, and they made consultation, one of them was appointed in haste to search the great deep, in order to procure some earth, if it could be obtained; accordingly the monster descends, which succeeds, and returns to the place. Another requisition was presented, who would be capable to secure the woman from the terrors of the great water, but none was able to comply except a large turtle came forward and made proposal to them to endure her lasting weight, which was accepted.”

>> I wonder why, at first, the word “monsters” was used here and not animals. While I continued reading, I kept on having this feeling their size was huge…so what kind of MANY animals could we have that are big in size, for most of them anyway? All I could think of is actually the dinosaurs. They could be considered as monsters to modern day man. Crazy, right?

While in the other version we read the names = types of animals that went down to get some earth; here we don’t but instead they are called “monsters”. I think the reason behind the naming of the animal types in the other version is a mutation where younger generations didn’t understand what these monsters are and substituted them while telling the myth with the names of animals they were acquainted with.

The last point which caught my attention is the use of the word “earth” = they wanted to procure some earth for her. They didn’t use soil, dirt, mud….they used “earth” which could have a double meaning. As volcanic peaks emerged from under the water where she landed….just like what Kilimanjaro and Ararat are = volcanic peaks.

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>>16654958

(Please read from the start)

“The woman was yet descending from a great distance. The turtle executes upon the spot, and a small quantity of earth was varnished on the back part of the turtle. The woman alights on the seat prepared, and she receives a satisfaction. While holding her, the turtle increased every moment and became a considerable island of earth, and apparently covered with small bushes. The woman remained in a state of unlimited darkness, and she was overtaken by her travail to which she was subject.”

>> Wow! It’s as if she fell from Space towards the Earth.

“While she was in the limits of distress one of the infants in her womb was moved by an evil opinion and he was determined to pass out under the side of the parent's arm, and the other infant in vain endeavored to prevent his design. The woman was in a painful condition during the time of their disputes, and the infants entered the dark world by compulsion, and their parent expired in a few moments. They had the power of sustenance without a nurse, and remained in the dark regions.”

>> So according to this myth, she was in labor while the upper world fell and she was carrying twins: one evil and the other one good. But I don’t think this myth should be taken word to word as written because if we compare it with what we have from other sources, it’s clear the twins were born before the Cataclysm, not during/after it. So the way I explain this is that this story was cut in many places and put back together, a bit like what you do with a film roll while editing a movie (old times). The reason behind it is because it’s oral tradition = so some parts must have been cut short and others glued to it or not in the right sequel of events they should be in.

“After a time the turtle increased to a great Island and the infants were grown up, and one of them possessed with a gentle disposition, and named Enigorio, i.e. the good mind. The other youth possessed an insolence of character, and was named Enigonhahetgea, i.e. the bad mind. The good mind was not contented to remain in a dark situation, and he was anxious to create a great light in the dark world; but the bad mind was desirous that the world should remain in a natural state.”

>> Here, it’s clearly saying that the Flood water receded slowly and land started to emerge from under the water gradually. The Evil Clan survivors wanted to keep the world and the people in a state of chaos, while the clans of the Light, united, wanted to bring order to the new world. This is how I interpret this paragraph.

“The good mind determines to prosecute his designs, and therefore commences the world of creation. At first he took the parent's head, (the deceased) of which he created an orb, and established it in the centre of the firmament, and it became of a very superior nature to bestow light to the new world, (now the sun) and again he took the remnant of the body and formed another orb, which was inferior to the light (now moon). In the orb a cloud of legs appeared to prove it was the body of the good mind, (parent). The former was to give light to the day and the latter to the night; and he also created numerous spots of light, (now stars): these were to regulate the days, nights, seasons, years, etc.”

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>>16654965

(Please read from the start)

>> Of course this is not to be taken literally. I was also wondering something: when the upper world sunk = as in the explosion happened and the Cataclysm started….is it possible that the “upper world” “broke” into 2 parts, 2 blocks and one fell on Earth and the other stayed floating in orbit of the Earth? (((They))) told us that it was a meteorite that fell from Space into Earth and destroyed/killed/wiped out the dinosaurs. And I keep on reading strange things about the moon, that apparently it’s not a moon and stuff like that. I cannot make much sense of it all, but it perked my curiosity and I have loads of question about it all – mostly with the fake moon landings and all of that.

So I’m wondering if the upper world was not broke into 2 sections/parts/chunks and the big chunk stayed in orbit around the earth and became what now we call the moon. And the smaller chunk fell to the surface of the Earth. The fall of that smaller chunk would have been like that of a meteorite falling from Space. Let’s just consider this as a possible theory from the old man. I’m not saying this is what happened, it’s just a theory. I’m still a greenhorn with the moon riddle.

“Whenever the light extended to the dark world the monsters were displeased and immediately concealed themselves in the deep places, lest they should be discovered by some human beings. The good mind continued the works of creation, and he formed numerous creeks and rivers on the Great Island, and then created numerous species of animals of the smallest and the greatest, to inhabit the forests, and fishes of all kinds to inhabit the waters. When he had made the universe he was in doubt respecting some being to possess the Great Island; and he formed two images of the dust of the ground in his own likeness, female and male, and by his breathing into their nostrils he gave them the living souls, and named them Ea-gwe-howe, i.e., a real people; and he gave the Great Island all the animals of game for their maintenance and he appointed thunder to water the earth by frequent rains, agreeable of the nature of the system; after this the Island became fruitful and vegetation afforded the animals subsistance.”

>> This is incredible. The notables are:

1 – When the light extended to the dark world the monsters were displeased and immediately concealed themselves in deep places = did they go underground? Or is it in deep dark caves? Is this reflecting the victory of the Light Clan’s? Is this reflecting a distant past where the battle against the Horned Serpent Clan was won by the ThunderBirds? Seems like after their defeat the Horned Serpent Clan laid low, as in they hid, not just in remote places, but hid in a meaning that they wouldn’t be detected as part of the Evil Clan = they hid among the people = infiltration, in order to survive. This is not the first time this happened in History. Each time (((they))) are defeated, (((they))) survived because (((they))) used the same method as (((they))) passed on (((their))) teachings. And then, (((they))) came back after a few centuries. (((They))) stay in shadows at first, then mingled amongst us, pretending (((they))) are like us = non cannibals, while (((they))) do horrible things in the shadows. (((They))) slowly crawled up the ladder of power and started to seize the reigns one by one. This was NOT done in one place = one specific geographic zone, but it was a phenomenon which took place in the same way all over the world; which means this is part of (((their))) teachings = part of the doctrine; as in if you are caught, detected, then some of you will go underground and form sleeping cells which will hatch a few generations later and take back control from within. It’s the parasitic doctrine I’ve been warning a lot of about. But whom is listening?

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>>16654977

(Please read from the start)

2 – Male and female were created from dust in the ground to his likeness. Of course this is similar to what we have in the Bible, but the sequence is not correct here. I mean in the Bible Creation happened first, then the banishment from the garden of Eden took place. Here, the upper world fell, then the Creation happened. This is why I said that this myth of Creation we have here is like editing a film roll and the sequence of events was messed up.

3 – Thunder was “ordered” to bring water to the earth. I think this has a double meaning: the obvious one of rain coming down; and the hint that the ThunderBirds were to “take care” of the created world and what lives in it. They are the guardians. Why do I think it’s about the ThunderBirds here and not actually rain? Well, what is thunder but a sound: “a loud rumbling or crashing noise heard after a lightning flash due to the expansion of rapidly heated air”. So why say Thunder, not storm or simply rain? Why not use the word lightning or wind as well? See what I mean? Thunder might be here, not the real thunder from a “natural” storm, but the Thunder warriors = the ThunderBirds, whom bring storms, protect people and even bring order, and law to the people when there are disagreements between them.

“The bad mind, while his brother was making the universe, went throughout the Island and made numerous high mountains and falls of water, and great steeps, and also creates various reptiles which would be injurious to humankind; but the good mind restored the Island to its former condition. The bad mind proceeded further in his motives and he made two images of clay in the form of humankind; but while he was giving them existence they became apes; and when he had not the power to create humankind he was envious against his brother; and again he made two of clay. The good mind discovered his brother's contrivances, and aided in giving them living souls, (it is said these had the most knowledge of good and evil).”

>> The notables:

1 – Connecting the evil mind to reptiles which injured humans. But the good mind restored things to the former condition. This is projecting the ancient battle between the Horned Serpent warriors and the Light warriors whom finally won and restored “order” to the world.

2- The bad mind also took clay and tried to create life but his creatures turned out to be apes in the end because he didn’t have the power to turn them into humans; he simply couldn’t give them souls. This is indicating 3 important things:

A- The projection of the Frankenstein creatures which we are suspecting the Evil One created and we know nowadays Bloodlines created in underground labs.

B- The Evil One wanted to play “God” as in the Creator; we’ve already seen this idea before in this thread.

C- Only the Light can create living humans with SOULS in them.

• Page 2 320 –

>>16654987

(Please read from the start)

“The good mind now accomplishes the works of creation, notwithstanding the imaginations of the bad mind were continually evil; and he attempted to enclose all the animals of game in the earth, so as to deprive them from humankind; but the good mind released them from confinement, (the animals were dispersed, and traces of them were made on the rocks near the cave where it was closed).

The good mind experiences that his brother was at variance with the works of creation, and feels not disposed to favor any of his proceedings, but gives admonitions of his future state. Afterwards the good mind requested his brother to accompany him, as he was proposed to inspect the game, etc., but when a short distance from their monina residence, the bad mind became so unmanly that he could not conduct his brother any more.

The bad mind offered a challenge to his brother and resolved that who gains the victory whould govern the universe; and appointed a day to meet the contest. The good mind was willing to submit to the offer, and he enters the reconciliation with his brother which he falsely mentions that by whipping with flags would destroy his temporal life; and he earnestly solicits his brother also to notice the instrument of death, which he manifestly relates by the use of deer horns, beating his body he would expire. On the day appointed the engagement commenced, which lasted for two days: after pulling up the trees and mountains as the track of a terrible whirlwind, at last the good mind gained the victory by using the horns, as mentioned the instrument of death, which he succeeded in deceiving his brother and he crushed him in the earth; and the last words uttered from the bad mind were, that he would have equal power over the souls of humankind after death; and he sinks down to eternal doom, and became the Evil Spirit. After this tumult the good mind repaired to the battle ground, and then visited the people and retires from the earth.”

>> This is a projection of the coup and the fight for the throne of Heaven. It’s in bits and pieces but it’s clear this is a fight for the throne of Heaven. The last word uttered by the evil mind are very notable “he would have equal power over the souls of humankind after death” – is this why Christ made the ultimate sacrifice so he can shred this “power” the Evil One had on us? I think so. There are loads of details pointing it’s the battle for the throne of Heaven, but as you can see the sequence is not in order and it’s kinda scrambled with the deer horns, the whirlwind etc. It’s interesting how it’s mentioned that the Evil One was crushed to death which reminds me of Zeus’ fight with Typhon. Another interesting detail is that the Evil One sank down to eternal doom.

Let’s take a quick look at the “good mind”: www.native-languages.org/morelegends/good-spirit.htm

“Native American Legends: Good Spirit

Name: Good Spirit

Native names: Enigorio; Ka'tikenhrakwahst, Got-ti-gah-rah-quast

Also known as: Good Mind, Right-Handed Twin

Tribal affiliation: Cayuga, Oneida, Tuscarora

Type: Culture hero, Native American god

Related figures in other tribes: Sky Holder (Iroquois), Ioskeha (Huron), Nanabush (Anishinabe)”

• Page 2 321 –

>>16655018

(Please read from the start)

“In the mythology of some Cayuga and Tuscarora communities, Good Spirit is one of the Twin Gods, sons of the mother goddess Sky Woman. In the mythology of other Iroquois tribes, Sky Woman was the grandmother of the legendary twins instead. Good Spirit was the protector, and according to some stories the creator, of the Iroquois people. He slew monsters, taught the people the arts of civilization, and adapted the world to help them. Meanwhile his brother, Bad Spirit, sabotaged him by undoing his work and creating dangerous and destructive things. According to most versions of the myth the two brothers eventually fought, and Good Spirit was victorious.

Other details of the Good Spirit myth vary greatly depending on the community and the storyteller. In some versions, Good Spirit is nearly identical to the Huron Ioskeha, with his mother dying in childbirth due to his wicked brother. But in many versions, Sky Woman survives and tries to mediate between her sons– most often she advocates for balance, saying that there must be both good and evil in the world, but sometimes she takes the part of Good Spirit and helps to imprison Bad Spirit, and other times she favors Bad Spirit and rejects Good Spirit for defeating him.

In some Iroquois traditions, Good Spirit is considered to be the same as the high god, known as Sky-Holder.”

>> Well, there is no need for me to explain this since we’ve already talked about it all. I put this on purpose to give a quick glimpse to anons how oral tradition can vary because each generation can add, omit or mix parts of it = just like editing a film strip of a movie. But this doesn’t mean it’s all wrong and unreliable. The core story is still there despite the scrambled sequence of events and the alterations.

I still want to look for more detail about this entire story, even if some parts are repeat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hahgwehdiyu

“Hahgwehdiyu (also called Ha-Wen-Neyu, Rawenniyo, or Hawenniyo) is the Iroquois god of goodness and light, as well as a creator god. He and his twin brother Hahgwehdaetgah, the god of evil, were children of Atahensic (or in some versions her daughter, the Earth Mother), whom Hahgwehdaetgah killed in childbirth.

Hahgwehdiyu created the world from his own body and that of his mother's. His outstretched palm became the sky, his mother's head the sun, and her breasts became the moon and stars. He made her body the earth, into which he planted a seed, which grew into the maize plant.

Creation of the Earth

The Earth was a thought in the mind of the ruler of a great island floating above the clouds. This ruler was called by various names, among them Ha-wen-ni-yu, meaning He who governs or The Ruler. The island is a place of calm where all needs are provided and there is no pain or death. On this island grew a great apple tree where the inhabitants held council. The Ruler said "let us make a new place where another people can grow. Under our council tree is a great sea of clouds which calls out for light." He ordered the council tree to be uprooted and he looked down into the depths. He had Ata-en-sic, Sky Woman, look down. He heard the voice of the sea calling; he told Ata-en-sic, who was pregnant, to bring it life. He wrapped her in light and dropped her down through the hole.”

>> Ha-wen-ni-yu is the King of kings. He wrapped her in light and dropped her down through the hole = this is the beam of light with swirling electricity. We also have seen it many times in this thread, and we’ve seen something similar in the movie Stargate with the teleportation rings….and of course we all know that Christ and the Virgin Mary went up to Heaven in their bodies with a light shining down on them. The rest: about the floating mountain and the “council”, is supporting what I have been telling you in this thread and it’s a match to what we have from other myths from different parts of the world; like the Epic of Gilgamesh, or the myths of Inanna, etc.

• Page 2 322 –

>>16655023

(Please read from the start)

“Once brought to at the surface, the oeh-dah grew and became an island. Ata-en-sic heard two voices under her heart and knew her time had come. One voice was calm and quiet, but the other was loud and angry. These were the Do-yo-da-no, The Twins. The good twin, Hah-gweh-di-yu or Teharonhiakwako, was born in the normal way. The evil twin, Hä-qweh-da-ět-gǎh or Sawiskera, forced his way out from under his mother's arm, killing her.

After the death of Sky Woman the island was shrouded in gloom. Hah-gweh-di-yu shaped the sky and created the sun from his mother's face saying "you shall rule here where your face will shine forever." Hä-qweh-da-ět-gǎh, however, set the great darkness in the west to drive down the sun. Hah-gweh-di-yu then took the Moon and Stars from his mother's breast, and placed them, his sisters, to guard the night sky. He gave his mother's body to the earth, the Great Mother from whom all life came.

Hah-gweh-di-yu, corresponding to the Huron spirit Ioskeha, created the first people. He healed disease, defeated demons, and gave many of the Iroquois magical and ceremonial rituals. Another of his gifts was tobacco, which has been used as a central part of the Iroquois religion.

Hah-gweh-di-yu is aided by a number of assistant or subordinate spirits.”

>> Well, we’ve seen this before, but it’s good to read various accounts about it. Sometimes little details are collected from here and there.

Just a bit about Atahensic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atahensic

“In Iroquois mythology, Atahensic (also called Ataensic or Eagentci) is an Iroquois sky goddess. Atahensic is associated with marriage, childbirth, and feminine affairs in general.

According to legend, at the time of creation, a tree broke and left a hole in the ground that led to the centre of the Earth. Atahensic fell from the sky, and before falling into the hole left by the tree, she was carried down on the wings of birds. After her fall, the birds brought her down the hole onto water. A giant turtle then emerged from the underground waters and carried her to the surface. She then gave birth to Earth Mother, who in turn gave birth to Hahgwehdiyu and Hahgwehdaetgah, twin sons. Hahgwehdaetgah, the evil twin, killed Earth Mother by bursting out of her side during birth. Hahgwehdiyu, the good twin, then planted a seed into his mother's corpse. From this seed grew maize, as a gift to mankind.

"This [Atahensic] is the Huron name for the first mother, and not that of the (confederated) Iroquois. The Senecas generally give this character no name other than Eagentci, literally old woman or ancient bodied."

>> The little variant is that she came down with the help of birds and not the light as we read in the previous article.

This is it for the myths from the Iroquois

• Page 2 323 –

>>16655025

(Please read from the start)

Next, I want to take a look at the Hopi mythology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopi_mythology

“The Hopi maintain a complex religious and mythological tradition stretching back over centuries. However, it is difficult to definitively state what all Hopis as a group believe. Like the oral traditions of many other societies, Hopi mythology is not always told consistently and each Hopi mesa, or even each village, may have its own version of a particular story, but "in essence the variants of the Hopi myth bear marked similarity to one another." It is also not clear that the stories told to non-Hopis, such as anthropologists and ethnographers, represent genuine Hopi beliefs or are merely stories told to the curious while keeping safe the more sacred Hopi teachings. As folklorist Harold Courlander states, "there is a Hopi reticence about discussing matters that could be considered ritual secrets or religion-oriented traditions.”

In addition, the Hopis have always been willing to assimilate foreign ideas into their cosmology if they are proven effective for such practical necessities as bringing rain. The Hopi had at least some contact with Europeans as early as the 16th century, and some believe that European Christian traditions may have entered Hopi cosmology at some point. Indeed, Spanish missions were built in several Hopi villages starting in 1629 and were in operation until the Pueblo Revolt of 1680. However, after the revolt, it was the Hopi alone of all the Pueblo peoples who kept the Spanish out of their villages permanently, and regular contact with whites did not begin again until nearly two centuries later. The Hopi mesas have therefore been seen as "relatively unacculturated" at least through the early 20th century, and it may be posited that the European influence on the core themes of Hopi mythology was slight.”

>> Good! The closer the myths to the original, the better it is.

“Most Hopi creation stories center around Tawa, the sun spirit. Tawa is the creator, and it was he who formed the "First World" out of Tokpella, or endless space, as well as its original inhabitants. It is still traditional for Hopi mothers to seek a blessing from the sun for their newborn children. Other accounts have it that Tawa, or Taiowa, first created Sotuknang, whom he called his nephew, and sent him to create the nine universes according to his plan. Sotuknang also created Spider Woman, who served as a messenger for the creator and was an intercessor between the deity and the people. In some versions of the Hopi creation myth, she creates all life, under the direction of Sotuknang. Yet other stories tell that life was created by Hard Being Woman of the West and Hard Being Woman of the East, while the sun merely observed the process.”

>> There you go anons: we have the King of kings and Neith at the center of the Creation myth of the Hopi.

“Major deities

Masauwu (Maasaw, Mausauu), Skeleton Man, was the Spirit of Death, Earth God, door keeper to the Fifth World, and the Keeper of Fire. He was also the Master of the Upper World, or the Fourth World, and was there when the good people escaped the wickedness of the Third World for the promise of the Fourth. Masauwu is described as wearing a hideous mask, but again showing the diversity of myths among the Hopi, Masauwu was alternately described as a handsome, bejewelled man beneath his mask or as a bloody, fearsome creature. He is also assigned certain benevolent attributes. One story has it that it was Masauwu who helped settle the Hopi at Oraibi and gave them stewardship over the land. He also charged them to watch for the coming of the Pahana (see section below), the Lost White Brother. Other important deities include the twin war gods, the kachinas, and the trickster, Coyote.”

>> Skeleton Man sounds like the Evil One, or a member of his clan. Masauwu is also the Evil One but seen in his 2 aspects: when he was a good Sebetti ruler and when he turned into an evil Sebetti ruler.

• Page 2 324 –

>>16655027

(Please read from the start)

“Maize is vital to Hopi subsistence and religion. "For traditional Hopis, corn is the central bond. Its essence, physically, spiritually, and symbolically, pervades their existence. For the people of the mesas corn is sustenance, ceremonial object, prayer offering, symbol, and sentient being unto itself. Corn is the Mother in the truest sense that people take in the corn and the corn becomes their flesh, as mother milk becomes the flesh of the child."

Four Worlds

Barry Pritzker writes: "According to Hopi legend, when time and space began, the sun spirit (Tawa) created the First World, in which insectlike creatures lived unhappily in caves. With the goal of improvement, Tawa sent a spirit called Spider Grandmother to the world below. Spider Grandmother led the first creatures on a long trip to the Second World, in which they took on the appearance of wolves and bears. As these animals were no happier than the previous ones, however, Tawa created a new, Third World, and again sent Spider Grandmother to convey the wolves and bears there. By the time they arrived. they had become people." Spider Grandmother taught them weaving and pottery, and a hummingbird brought them a fire drill.”

>> Of course this is NOT to be taken literally as it’s clear here editing happened while the myth was transferred through the generations. What is interesting though is the idea of the existence of not ONE world, but as many as 4 worlds. This is a notion that we’ve already encountered in this thread in other civilizations/cultures, like that of the Aztecs (if my memory is not betraying me) and in Ancient Egypt as well.

“Entrance into the Fourth World

Two main versions exist as to the Hopis' emergence into the present Fourth World.

In one version, after evil broke out amongst the people in the Third World, with the help of Spider Grandmother, or bird spirits, a hollow bamboo reed grew at the opening of the Third World into the Fourth World. This opening, sipapu, is traditionally viewed to be the Grand Canyon. According to Barry Pritzker, "the people with good hearts (kindness) made it to the Fourth World.”

>> A lot of anons/researchers think the Sipapu is actually the stargate/portal and I agree with them. It’s that beam of light with electricity swirling around it from what is written in this paragraph.

• Page 2 325 –

>>16655075

(Please read from the start)

“The other version (mainly told in Oraibi) has it that Tawa destroyed the Third World in a great flood. Before the destruction, Spider Grandmother sealed the more righteous people into hollow reeds which were used as boats. On arrival on a small piece of dry land, the people saw nothing around them but more water, even after planting a large bamboo shoot, climbing to the top, and looking about. Spider Woman then told the people to make boats out of more reeds, and using island "stepping-stones" along the way, the people sailed east until they arrived on the mountainous coasts of the Fourth World.”

>> The King of kings didn’t cause the Cataclysm, He tried to stop it. The Cataclysm was most probably triggered by the Evil One. So it wasn’t Tawa whom destroyed the Third World in a great flood; the flood which was a tiny part of the Cataclysm. This is clear indication of what I’ve been telling you about the editing of the myth by the younger generations of the Native Americans. And this is not exclusively done with the Native Americans as it happened worldwide with every Oral tradition out there.

Now look at the juicy parts in this paragraph: the Kuphar was made of reeds = here Spider Grandmother used the reeds as boats in which she SEALED good people. This is pointing to the ARKS, in plural, not a single Ark. After that the description given to us is what happened after the Arks landed on the small volcanic mountain top which emerged from under the water. It’s incredible, isn’t it anons? Here the text, despite the scrambling, supports the archaeological and geological finds we’ve been seeing in this thread.

Did you notice that the survivors sailed EAST after they came out of the ARKS and made MORE REED boats? This is supporting what I said about the rivers in the States and how the Rocky mountain might be the place where the Arks rested (page 2 289). We have 3 possible states where the Arks might have landed: Colorado, Wyoming and Montana. As you can see on the maps, the survivors could have easily built reed boats and used them to navigate on the respective river flowing East from each state and reach the Mississippi river; or go anywhere else.

“While it may not be possible to positively ascertain which is the original or "more correct" story, Harold Courlander writes, at least in Oraibi (the oldest of the Hopi villages), little children are often told the story of the sipapu, and the story of an ocean voyage is related to them when they are older. He states that even the name of the Hopi Water Clan (Patkinyamu) literally means "a dwelling-on-water" or "houseboat". However, he notes the sipapu story is centered on Walpi and is more accepted among Hopis generally.”

>> This surely fits the description of the Arks, mostly with that dwelling on water.

“According to Barry Pritzker, "In this Fourth World, the people learned many lessons about the proper way to live. They learned to worship Masauwu, who ensured that the dead return safely to the Underworld and who gave them the four sacred tablets that, in symbolic form, outlined their wanderings and their proper behavior in the Fourth World. Masauwu also told the people to watch for the Pahána, the Lost White Brother.”

• Page 2 326 –

>>16655076

(Please read from the start)

“Migrations

Upon their arrival in the Fourth World, the Hopis divided and went on a series of great migrations throughout the land. Sometimes they would stop and build a town, then abandon it to continue on with the migration. They would leave their symbols behind on the rocks to show that Hopi had been there. Long the divided people wandered in groups of families, eventually forming clans named after an event or sign that a particular group received upon its journey.These clans would travel for some time as a unified community, but almost inevitably a disagreement would occur, the clan would split and each portion would go its separate way. However, as the clans traveled, they would often join together forming large groups, only to have these associations disband, and then be reformed with other clans. These alternate periods of harmonious living followed by wickedness, contention, and separation play an important part of the Hopi mythos. This pattern seemingly began in the First World and continues even into recent history.”

>> This is an extremely important paragraph which is telling what happened after the survivors got out of the Arks and the water level receded. I’ve been trying to explain this over and over again in this thread because this is EXACTLY what we discovered had happened in Mesopotamia at the border of the Taurus mountain chain. The old settlements like Mount Nemrut were abandoned and people migrated in many waves downstream Euphrates. The group split many times and re-grouped, reformed….as we’ve seen with the story of Hayk, the Armenian Patriarch. This was also the situation in the Andean Region, in Ancient Egypt and in Mesoamerica, as we’ve seen old settlements or City-States were abandoned and migrations took place and regrouping occurred. We also have seen them leaving behind them a trail of petroglyphs, and sometimes geoglyphs as the migrants traveled. This is what I’ve been explaining on and on to anons. This paragraph is extremely important as I just said, please read and re-read all over again because it applies to ALL the starting points we’ve seen so far, where the Arks might have landed. The ruins, the Tells and the petroglyphs are there to prove this; the texts support them.

“In the course of their migration, each Hopi clan was to go to the farthest extremity of the land in every direction. Far in the north was a land of snow and ice which was called the "Back Door", but this was closed to the Hopi. However, the Hopi say that other peoples came through the Back Door into the Fourth World. "Back Door" could refer to the Bering land bridge, which connected Asia with North America. The Hopi were led on their migrations by various signs, or were helped along by Spider Woman. Eventually, the Hopi clans finished their prescribed migrations and were led to their current location in northeastern Arizona.”

>> The migrations (worldwide) happened in ALL direction, not in one direction of course. Following the river is one of itinerary followed, but it’s not the only and exclusive one. The Hopi said that they met with other people whom came through the Back Door = this is indicating that another Arks landed somewhere in the land of snow = Canada and the survivors also migrated, settled and resettled many times = they were on the move too. I think this is due to the changes in the climate = the Ice Age which followed the Flood and of course the flood water levels receding. I’ve said many times that the Flood is PART of the Cataclysm, not the Cataclysm itself. The Cataclysm itself was made of many horrifying events/ disasters which includes the Flood as one of them. After the Flood calmed down, and Ice Age occurred.

“Most Hopi traditions have it that they were given their land by Masauwu, the Spirit of Death and Master of the Fourth World.”

>> Which brings the questions: were the Hopi originaly part of the Horned Serpent Clan? Or was the “leader” of the Hopi part of the Horned Serpent Clan? From this sentence, it sounds like it was.

• Page 2 327 –

>>16655077

(Please read from the start)

“Perhaps the most important was said to be in the possession of the Fire Clan, and is related to the return of the Pahana. In one version, an elder of the Fire Clan worried that his people would not recognize the Pahana when he returned from the east. He therefore etched various designs including a human figure into a stone, and then broke off the section of the stone which included the figure's head. This section was given to Pahana and he was told to bring it back with him so that the Hopi would not be deceived by a witch or sorcerer. This one is Truth, the stone has an Indian face of black, white and grey with black feathers, and it is not etched but looks more like ink that soaked into the stone.”

>> Fire is the element of the Evil One. Were the Hopi waiting for the return of the Evil One?

“Sacred Hopi tablets

Hopi tradition tells of sacred tablets which were imparted to the Hopi by various deities. Like most of Hopi mythology, accounts differ as to when the tablets were given and in precisely what manner.

>> Not much said about the Hopi sacred tablets

“Kachinas

One of the Hopi religious societies is the katsina society. According to Barry Pritzker, "Reflecting the close association between the world of the living and that of the dead, spirits play an integral role in the land of the living. They are associated with clouds and with benevolent supernatural entities called katsinam (the plural of katsina), which inhabit the San Francisco Peaks just north of Flagstaff, Arizona." According to Susanne and Jake Page, the katsinam are "the spirits of all things in the universe, of rocks, stars, animals, plants, and ancestors who have lived good lives.”

Around 1325 CE Kachina masks and Kachina dancers appear as rock art.

Raymond Friday Locke discusses the Hopi legend of the Pahana writing that "The Hopis…had long anticipated the coming of Pahana and, either by coincidence or because of a common root of the legends, Pahana was due to visit the Hopi in the very same year that Quetzalcoatl was expected to return to the Aztecs. He arrived some twenty-one years later in the person of the Spaniard Pedro de Tovar, one of Coronado's conquistadors, and was the first white man to be seen by the Hopis and very probably the Navajo. Unlike the Aztecs, the Hopis put this Spanish Pahana to a series of tests, and when he failed them they sent him on his way.”

>> I want to make a clarification (which I made before): There are 2 deities with the name of Quetzalcoatl. One is evil, worshiped by the Aztecs and is his name means the “Precious Snake”; he is simply called Quetzalcoatl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quetzalcoatl

The second one is good deity whom was against human sacrifice, known by the Toltecs (see page 254), whom comes with the extremely long name of: Cē Ācatl Topiltzin Quetzalcoatl (starting page 256), which I’m unable to utter and I struggle with the name. This is why I keep the name short using only Quetzlcoatl to refer this “good” deity. So everything I’ve talked about before about Viracocha being Bocchica being Quetzalcoatl I was pointing to this second deity = the good one; and NOT to the evil one worshiped by the Aztecs, not the serpent one.

So here, when they say that the Pahana of the Hopi has common roots with Quetzalcoatl, they are pointing to the serpent deity of the Aztecs, the evil deity.

• Page 2 328 –

>>16655089

(Please read from the start)

“The Hopi say that during a great drought, they heard singing and dancing coming from the San Francisco Peaks. Upon investigation, they met the Kachinas who returned with the Hopi to their villages and taught them various forms of agriculture. The Hopi believe that for six months of the year, Kachina spirits live in the Hopi villages. The nine day Niman or Going Home ceremony concludes the Kachina season with an outdoor Kachina Dance where the line of Kachinas bring harvest gifts for the spectators and Kachina dolls for the young girls. Different sets of Kachinas perform year. Most favored is the Hemis group of Kachinas who perform accompanied by a variety of Kachina manas. After the Going Home Dance in late-July or early-August, the Kachinas return to the San Francisco Peaks for six months. The Hopi believe that these dances are vital for the continued harmony and balance of the world. It serves the further and vital purpose of bringing rain to the Hopi's parched homeland.

Pahana

The true Pahana (or Bahana) is the Lost White Brother of the Hopi. Most versions have it that the Pahana or Elder Brother left for the east at the time that the Hopi entered the Fourth World and began their migrations. However, the Hopi say that he will return again and at his coming the wicked will be destroyed and a new age of peace, the Fifth World, will be ushered into the world. As mentioned above, it is said he will bring with him a missing section of a sacred Hopi stone in the possession of the Fire Clan, and that he will come wearing red. Traditionally, Hopis are buried facing east in expectation of the Pahana who will come from that direction.”

>> It’s very obvious whom is it about here anons, so I’m not going to comment much except saying that the Evil Clan believes the Evil One will be resurrected. It’s not the first time we’ve seen this in this thread; it’s the reason (((they))) are trying to open the portal after all. Also don’t forget that the Evil One was of the White race.

“The legend of the Pahana seems intimately connected with the Aztec story of Quetzalcoatl, and other legends of Central America.This similarity is furthered by the liberal representation of Awanyu or the Paluliikon, the horned or plumed serpent, in Hopi and other Puebloan art. This figure resembles Quetzacoatl, the feathered serpent, of Mexico. In the early 16th century, both the Hopis and the Aztecs believed that the coming of the Spanish conquistadors was the return of this lost white prophet. Unlike the Aztecs, upon first contact the Hopi put the Spanish through a series of tests in order to determine their divinity, and having failed, the Spanish were sent away from the Hopi mesas.

One account has it that the Hopi realized that the Spanish were not the Pahana based upon the destruction of a Hopi town by the Spanish. Thus when the Spanish arrived at the village of Awatovi, they drew a line of cornmeal as a sign for the Spanish not to enter the village, but this was ignored. While some Hopi wanted to fight the invaders, it was decided to try a peaceful approach in the hope that the Spanish would eventually leave. However, Spanish accounts record a short skirmish at Awatovi before the Hopis capitulated.

In popular culture

[…]”

>> The Evil One is long dead when the survivors came out from the Arks and migrated to lower, more fertile lands. So there is no way it was the Evil One himself whom traveled East and said he will return. But it’s obvious it was a member of the Evil Clan, like maybe a Horned Serpent warrior whom said that to the Hopi. I mean a Horned Serpent warrior might have said to the Hopi that his Sebetti ruler = the Evil One = (((their))) creator, founding father, will come back one day. And then, this Horned Serpent traveled East.

There are some interesting points that caught my attention while reading about the Hopi mythology, I’m going to check them out next.

• Page 2 329 –

>>16655094

(Please read from the start)

Let’s start with the Hopi’s skeleton man: https://www.ancientpages.com/2017/05/05/hopis-encounter-maasaw-skeleton-man-gift-sacred-knowledge/

“Hopi’s Encounter With Maasaw – The Skeleton Man And His Gift Of Sacred Knowledge

May 5, 2017

The Hopi Indians’ encounter with Maasaw was very emotional and frightening.”

>> Just one sentence and I can understand why the Hopi Indians reacted this way during their encounter with Maasaw. I’m putting some pictures of hand crafted dolls of Maasaw with this page.These are samples. It would be better for the reader whom is interested to go online and check them out because there are loads of variants in the design of the Maasaw doll.

First of all, let’s be clear: you don’t get frightened by angelic, nice looking entities. You get frightened by horrible looking ones, which are none other than monsters or demons. Look at the dolls in the pictures with this page: in his right hand he is holding a rattle (most of the time) while in his left hand, he holds various objects, sometimes it’s a staff or bones (depending on the design). Sometimes the bones are not in his left hand, but are hanging from his belt on the front. His head is terribly strange, isn’t it? I think it’s because he is wearing a helmet. What is coming out/sticking out from the top of the head looks a lot like antlers. His eyes are as if he was actually wearing goggles. His mouth is also depicted strangely. I don’t think he is doing a big O with his mouth. I think his mouth is wide open, ready to bite. Just like what a lion does when he is about to bite into his prey. Why do I think his mouth is depicted in a way indicating that he is about to bite? = it’s because of the teeth.

When I combine all of these details from the iconography of Maasaw and I add to it the fire and the color red mentioned before in the Wikipedia page, it’s becoming more than obvious Maasaw is a Horned Serpent warrior from the Evil Clan. He’s got the Antelope Clan antlers on his helmet. He is holding a staff weapon. The rattle can be associated either with snakes/serpents or to the crackling sound of Fire. His teeth are the fangs of the Serpent. The bones and skulls he either holds in his left hand or are hanging from his belt are a macabre sign he is a bringer of death.

“His physical appearance was so horrifying that many of the Hopi Indians ran. Some of the Hopi had the courage to stay because they had been looking for him for such a long time. They wanted to listen to Maasaw and receive spiritual wisdom.

The remarkable encounter with Maasaw is one of the reasons why the Hopi are today considered keepers of sacred knowledge.”

>> Darkness has its wisdom too you know, but it’s a twisted psychotic one. And….the “sacred knowledge” here is obviously referring to the same “secret knowledge” the Bloodlines have been sooo keen on preserving and keep hidden from the rest of the world = it’s the secret sacred knowledge of the Evil Clan. I’m also curious about something: whom is it that considers the Hopi as keepers of sacred knowledge nowadays? = the Bloodlines or (((their))) paid experts? See how (((they))) promote (((their))) cult, while crushing into oblivion the Cahokia/Rock Lake sites which are clearly connected with the ThunderBirds.

• Page 2 330 –

>>16655137

(Please read from the start)

“The Hopi Indians have a very rich mythological tradition stretching back over centuries and they have stories about their ancestral journeys through three worlds to the Fourth World, where the people live today.

According to Hopi legends, Maasaw (Masaw, Massau, Masauwu) was a spirit that could not die and he was therefore appointed to be Guardian of the Underworld. He is described as a Skeleton Man and Lord of the Dead in Hopi mythology.”

>> Maasaw could not die = it’s indicating that the Sebetti warrior, just like the Sebetti rulers, lived for a very long time, longer than what humans live.

“Hopi mythology tells about the existence of worlds before our own. All previous worlds were destroyed because people became disobedient and lived contrary to Tawa’s plan. Tawa is the Sun spirit and creator in Hopi mythology.”

>> Well, this is partially true but it was NOT ALL the people, it was a certain group of people. The Evil Clan disobeyed the “natural law” and lived contrary to it. Like what? Well, (((they))) became pedovores, this is an example. Another example is all the sexual depravities (((they))) practiced in secret and still are practicing. Another example is trying to play God by creating all sorts of hellish Frankenstein like creatures. All the examples I’ve given you right now go against the “natural law” established by our Heavenly Father when He created the entire Universe and everything and everyone living in it.

It was because of exactly this = going against the natural law of the Universe, that the previous world was literally blown up by the Evil One and the Cataclysmic event almost wiped out everything and everyone. By wanting to become a creator, by plotting to kill the King of kings = making a coup to take the throne of Heaven and ruling instead of the Great King; the Evil One with his co-conspirators went against the natural order/law of the Universe = the natural flow of things was disrupted. By wanting to control that device/machine the Evil One disrupted the balance which ended up with most everyone dying. Ironically, including himself. Christ said to the young man that Evil beings always end up destroying themselves by themselves.

“There are different versions of how the previous worlds were destroyed and who managed to survive. Some legends tell that the Third World was destroyed along with all evil people, but other stories reveal good inhabitants were led away from the chaos which had been created by their actions.”

>> LoL! This is so funny to a point it’s totally ridiculous. So the people whom by their actions created THE chaos = the Cataclysm, escaped from it. In other words anons, some of the Evil Clan members perished and some of them were among the survivors whom boarded the Arks.

• Page 2 331 –

>>16655151

(Please read from the start)

When reading such paragraphs, including the old ones from the Hopi themselves, some readers will think: “but this is indicating it’s not the Evil Clan whom caused the Cataclysm, but others”. Well, we’ve seen an identical behavior to this one before in this thread when we were taking a look at Seth and Osiris. This is how the Evil Clan, regardless where they landed = in which Ark they were in, see themselves and talk about themselves.

Back then, we see (((them))) portraying Osiris as a cruel king whom’s murder by Seth was justified according to (((their))) writings. This is how (((they))) write things, this is (((their))) view, (((their))) history from (((their))) perspective. We’ve also seen the same psychology and ideology when we were taking a look at the fairy tale of Moses and how the evil action of the Jew/Israelites were always camouflaged, blurred, justified, giving it a pass, to make it more acceptable from a moral point of view. (((They))) excel in playing the victim and being all innocent like = projecting (((their))) sins, the blame on others while (((they))) are the ones doing it for real. It’s the signature of the Jews/Bloodlines/Illuminati/Israelites/Hebrews…. Call them whatever you want, it’s one and the same exactly as Saint Paisios and Saint Cosmas said it. Just take a look what (((they))) did to Potus ever since he came down that escalator and you will understand: it was Russia, Russia, Russia and (((they))) were the ones colluding with Russia. That’s just one TINY example. What anons are not awake and aware of is that (((they))) did this throughout ALL of History, including in the Arabo-Israeli conflict. And it didn’t matter where (((they))) landed, was it in Mesoamerica, China, Kilimanjaro etc. This behavior, this ideology of playing the victim and throwing/projecting (((their))) own crimes onto the real victims is part of JUDAISM = (((their))) doctrine = the Evil Cult.

There are 2 layers which compose/make Judaism = the shallow layer for us the normies to be fooled as if looking into a shop window. And there is a deep layer for (((them))) and (((their))) people = it’s all about the truth about (((their))) clan, with loads of twists, turns in it, like a dirty maze. When the survivors of the Evil Clan scattered, (((they))) kept the ancient Evil Cult by keeping the doctrine and keep on practicing it, regardless of where (((they))) landed after the Cataclysm. This is why and how the Spanish nobility recognized and welcomed the Aztecs nobility amongst their ranks = (((they))) recognized (((they))) were brothers and sisters from the same clan separated/ scattered all over the globe because of the Cataclysm. This is also why we see the warriors of the Light defending and protecting children and pregnant women worldwide against Horned Serpent warriors. Just like the survivors of the Light Clan scattered all over the world, so did the survivors from the Evil Clan: clan people and evil warriors alike. And where (((they))) were/lived, (((they))) kept (((their))) doctrine alive and (((they))) kept on practicing (((their))) psychotic cult, passing it from one generation to another.

We saw it this exact same thing happen a second time in History, in a flagrant way = it came to the surface; when Louis XVII was smuggled out of France after the death of his father. Louis XVII was just a small kid back then, even if he managed to escape on his own; if he had lived like a normal kid, the main branch of the Merovingian Bloodline wouldn’t have survived. If Louis XVII had live a normal kid without being indoctrinated by the Evil Clan members whom helped him escape from his prison, he would have grown up to live a normal life like the rest of us, despite him carrying the McLeod syndrome. He wouldn’t even have known he is from the direct bloodline of the Evil Couple. It was the members of the Evil Clan, nobility and the people = maids, servants, coachman, sailors, farmers etc., all belonging to the Evil Clan whom helped him escape. When he did….whom do you think took care of his “education” and “upbringing”? This was not done solely by the Evil Clan nobility, this was a group effort = a clan effort. (((They))) combined (((their))) strength to help the main branch of the Merovingian Bloodline survive.

• Page 2 332 –

>>16655169

(Please read from the start)

This is how the Evil cult survived and how the Evil practices survived despite that the Evil Warriors lost the battle against the warriors of the Light back then. The Evil warriors were gone, but the Evil Cult remained and it kept on being practiced by the people of the Evil Clan. Potus and the Alliance are doing the same damned mistake. They are going after the head of the snake but not after the doctrine. Even if Potus & co defeat them (and they will), they would have only kicked the can down the road because the doctrine is still alive and it will sprout a few centuries later and regain power once more and the cycle will start again. I’ve warned of this many times, but whom is listening.

The Light picked the young man for a reason. The Light doesn’t do things randomly. Everything is calculated and planned. Every single pawn piece is right where it should be on the chessboard of the Light.

“Hopi Went Looking For Maasaw And He Gave Them Sacred Knowledge

When the Hopi emerged into the Fourth World (our current world), they learned that Maasaw was on Earth and they went looking for him. People who wanted to escape from the Third World decided to make contact with Maasaw.”

>> So you understand now why it’s called “Sacred knowledge”? It’s called that way because this is (((their))) clan talking about (((their))) cult, regardless where (((they))) landed. We are reading how (((they))) view themselves and (((their))) cult. This is someone talking about himself, view his own self.

“First, they sent a swift bird looking for Maasaw, but the bird was so tired when it reached the sky that it had to come back. Then, the Hopi tried to send a dove and later a hawk, but both creatures failed to reach Maasaw.

The one that succeeded in finding Maasaw was the catbird.

Maasaw asked him, “Why are you here?”

>> This might be a mixed up projection of an ancient battle between ThunderBirds and Maasaw = a Horned Serpent warrior. But from the sound of it, it seems the ThunderBirds failed to defeat him. Another possibility is that someone flew a plane or a Jet suit and finally managed to locate Maasaw. The chances are higher it’s the second possibility because of the type of birds used in the story = not all are birds of prey. So birds could be pointing to a flying machine and not a Light warrior wearing a Jet Suit; and we know from this thread that flying machines were used by both evil and good warriors alike.

• Page 2 333 –

>>16655175

(Please read from the start)

“The catbird said, “The world below is infested with evil. The people want to come up here to live. They want to build their houses here, and plant their corn.”

Maasaw said, “Well, you see how it is in this world. There isn’t any light, just greyness. I have to use fire to warm my crops and make them grow. However, I have relatives down in the Third World. I gave them the secret of fire. Let them lead the people up here, and I will give them land and a place to settle. Let them come.”

>> Don’t forget, this is written from the perspective of the Evil Clan. This is (((their))) narration, (((their))) side of the story. There isn’t any light just greyness = this is pointing to the Ice Age I’ve mentioned before in this thread. I’ve said that it took some time for the clouds – probably ash clouds from the volcanic eruptions – to clear up and the Cataclysm to calm down.

Where do you think the “UP” mentioned by Maasaw is? If you think about him using fire to heat his maize and connect it to the UP = it’s the volcanic peaks which poke out of the surface of the flood waters of the Cataclysm. This is how I interpret this.

“The Guardian Spirit, Maasaw, gave the Hopi permission to settle in the region that is now northwest Arizona. Maasaw noticed that greed, ambition, and social competition were dominating factors in their former life, and this lifestyle made people very unhappy.”

>> Anyone reading know if there is something for the Bloodlines in the Northwest of Arizona, either upper or under ground? Apart the Grand Canyon and it’s vicinity to Las Vegas, is there anything else special about that geographic location? The Grand Canyon can be linked to some of the possible landing spots of the Arks if it had landed on one of the peaks in Colorado – if we follow the river that is. Look at a map; it’s very possible because the survivors didn’t migrate in one pack and in one direction. They split and regrouped several times and they went in all directions. Following the river path is the fastest and easiest way to travel (via reed boats), mostly if the flood water levels are mid-way up.

Then take a look at this sentence: “Maasaw noticed that greed, ambition, and social competition were dominating factors in their former life”. Greed, Ambition and Social competition were dominating FACTORS in their FORMER life = this is about the Evil Clan members/people while (((they))) were living in Atlantis. The Light is humble, simple and does not envy or is not ambition. These are the traits of the Evil Clan; such traits didn’t exist before the Evil One’s existence. He was the first. So you see anons, it’s clear here that whomever wrote this is indicating that they are part of the Evil Clan before the Cataclysm and they continued the Evil Cult AFTER the Cataclysm despite being separated from the rest of (((their))) Clan members. And the current day members of the Evil Clan are just the same as (((their))) ancestors were. This is how the Evil Clan narrates his own story and you are reading it from (((their))) own perspective and (((their))) own views. This is how Osiris becomes a tyrant, a ruthless ruler and his murder is justified = same type of twisted logic and ideology.

“Maasaw warned the Hopi that the life he had to offer them was very different from what they had before. To show them, Maasaw gave the people a planting stick, a bag of seeds, and a gourd of water. He handed them a small ear of blue corn and told them, “Here is my life and my spirit. This is what I have to give you.”

>> Of course life would be very very different from before the Cataclysm and after it. Everything was wiped out, nothing remained, no buildings, no agricultural fields, no roads, no light, no computers, no household appliances, no comfort, nothing.

• Page 2 334 –

>>16655186

(Please read from the start)

“Maasaw explained that if they followed his way, they would live long and fruitful lives. He wanted them to be humble and live like he did with only a planting stick and seeds. He wanted the Hopi to take care of and respect the land, and they did what he said, despite the fact that their manner of living was not easy.”

>> Does this mean they were not humble before?

“Dry-farming in the high desert of northern Arizona, relying only on precipitation and runoff water, requires an almost miraculous level of faith and is sustained by hard work, prayer, and an attitude of deep humility. Following the way of Maasaw, the Hopi people have tended to their corn for nearly a millennium, and the corn has kept them whole.

For traditional Hopis corn is the central bond. Its essence, physically, spiritually, and symbolically, pervades their existence.

Hopi Followed Maasaw’s Advice And Lived In Peace

According to the Institute for Tribal Environmental Professionals, a tribal training and support organization based at Northern Arizona University in Flagstaff. “to be Hopi is to embrace peace and cooperation, to care for the Earth and all of its inhabitants, to live within the sacred balance. It is a life of reverence shared by all the good people of Earth, all those in tune with their world. This manner of living lies beneath the complexities of wimi, or specialized knowledge, which can provide stability and wisdom but when misused can also foster division and strife.

Deeper still in the lives of traditional Hopi people lies the way of Maasaw, a way of humility and simplicity, of forging a sacred bond between themselves and the land that sustains them. Maasaw’s way is embodied in corn.”

The source of true happiness is to live in peace and harmony with nature, animals, and other people, Maasaw said.

The Hopi followed his teachings and they lived peacefully in communities, caring for each other for centuries. They always carried within them the knowledge of the Great Spirit and they performed sacred rituals daily.”

>> As anons can see, we have the influence of the Light here. The reader shouldn’t be surprised at all to see that the Light co-existed side by side with the Evil Cult. We’ve seen this take place in Mesopotamia and in Phoenicia, as well as Ancient Egypt, it all happened gradually where you started to see temples of Light Sebetti rulers being built next to Evil Sebetti rulers. This happens as time goes by and the younger generation forgets the origins. Here with the Hopi, the situation is not different. We see influence in their cult from both the Light and the Darkness, and it kinda merged with time as the younger generations came.

“The word Hopi is s short version of their name Hopituh Shi-nu-mu ("The Peaceful People" or "Peaceful Little Ones). The Hopi Dictionary gives the primary meaning of the word "Hopi" as: "behaving one, one who is mannered, civilized, peaceable, polite, who adheres to the Hopi way."

The tribe does live up to the name. The Hopi are a very peace-loving people and they have managed to keep their culture intact thanks to the sacred knowledge given to them by Maasaw, the Skeleton Man.”

>> Co-existence of both sides.

• Page 2 335 –

>>16655189

(Please read from the stat)

Let’s check what the prophecy of the Hopi is about: https://www.ancientpages.com/2018/03/05/return-of-pahana-the-lost-white-brother-of-the-hopi-and-the-sacred-tablets/

“Return Of Pahana – The Lost White Brother Of The Hopi And The Sacred Tablet

March 5, 2018

The Hopi await the return of Pahana, their lost white brother who will he will come back dressed in red and bring with him a missing section of a sacred Hopi tablet. Pahana will come from the East and convey people a new religion and peace.”

>> I keep on wondering about the Hopi tablet. It reminds of the Mes we’ve seen when taking a look at Inanna; and at the same time, it reminds me of the 10 commandments of Moses. I wonder what this is really about because I don’t think it’s as simple and as easy as it sounds/appears to be. Could all of the tablets mentioned be some type of Atlantean electronic devices? It’s a possibility.

“Just like the Maya await the return of their white-bearded god Kukulkan who to the Aztecs was known as Queztalcoatl, the Hopi still await the return of Pahana.

According to the Hopi tradition, their people emerged from the previous world through Sipapu, a cave located variously in the Grand Canyon, at a place near where Colorado and Little Colorado Rivers. Following their emergence, the people wandered about in search of a place to live. After exploring the lands and learning about the world, they returned to the center of the universe, Black Mesa.”

>> Well, this is making me more and more believe the Ark should be near, as in within walking distance, just how the situation was on Mt Ararat/Euphrates River and Mt Kilimanjaro/Great Lakes of Africa/Nile River.

The Grand Canyon is mentioned again. This got me thinking a lot and I went to check on the maps. This is when I realized something that blew a few fuses in my head: Area 51 is so close by. This is when Lightning struck me. I remembered all the alien gibberish and the supposed UFO sightings with all the urban legend of Area 51 along with the green little alien. We also read a couple of pages ago about the Hopi settling in in North-West Arizona and I had asked if anyone reading is aware of something special in that area.

• Page 2 336 –

>>16655224

(Please read from the start)

Look at the maps anons: the Arks landed somewhere in Colorado or Wyoming. I should also consider Utah as well since it has 4000 m + mountain peaks as well. The survivors came out and migrated in various wave in every direction using mostly the rivers (many) paths. Some of them reached the North-West of Arizona where they settled in and were called the Hopi. It just happen to be, that area 51, with all of its mysteries, is just “next door” to where the Arks possibly landed.

As I said, I was hit by Lightning because I realized that what is in area 51 are the ARKS. The Alien thing is all a cover up. The Arks are taken there and the Bloodlines are reverse engineering the technology that was on board of the Arks. What is in Area 51 is not Alien technology, it’s Atlantean technology, taken from the Arks and the Bloodlines have been trying to recreate them. Think about it, all the pieces are there. (((They))) didn’t tell us about the Arks for centuries so (((they))) had the time to move them (or the technology in them) to places where (((they))) can study them in secret and try to reverse engineer them, even do some tests, like flight tests.

Think about what I’m saying. It makes perfect sense despite the fact that there aren’t any tangible proofs, YET. If one day the white hats are going to declassify what’s in Area 51… it will be the day that we will know if I was wrong or if I was right in my analysis.

“The Hopi Indians have a very rich mythological tradition stretching back over centuries and they have stories about their ancestral journeys through three worlds to the Fourth World, where the people live today.

Maasaw, The Skeleton Man Gave A Sacred Tablet To The Fire Clan

Hopi tradition tells of sacred tablets which were imparted to the Hopi by various deities. One precious tablet was given to the Fire Clan.

“When the Hopi emerged into the Fourth World (our current world), they learned that Maasaw was on Earth and they went looking for him. As previously mentioned on Ancient Pages, Hopi’s Encounter with Maasaw, the skeleton man was very frightening, but he gave the Holi the sacred gift of knowledge.

Maasaw who was a guardian spirit provided the Hopi with information on how and where they should migrate and settle down. Everything was symbolically written on four sacred tablets given to them.”

>> So there are 4 tablets in total.

• Page 2 337 –

>>16655236

(Please read from the start)

“Maasaw gave one of the tablets to the Fire Clan. The tablet was very small, only about four inches square. It was made of dark-colored chocolate stone and with a piece broken off from one corner. The sacred tablet was covered with symbols and there was a figure of a headless man on it.”

>> That’s a very precise description of the tablet as if it was seen = reported by an eye witness. If the person seeing the table thought he saw a “headless man” on it, it doesn’t mean it’s really that. It’s said there were “symbols” on it = not using the word letters or inscription; meaning the person seeing this didn’t recognize what was on it. In turn this opens the possibility that he might have “seen” a headless person among the “symbols”. In such cases, it’s better to have the object itself in front of us to examine visually ourselves, instead of relying on the description of a witness and what he MIGHT have saw, or how he understand/interpret what he saw = what he thinks he saw.

“How Can The Hopi Recognize Their Lost White Brother, Pahana?

Maasaw was the deity of the Fire Clan who gave the sacred tablet to the Hopi just before he turned around and became invisible. He wanted the Hopi to hear the sound of his voice and remember what he had said. Maasaw told the Hopi “After the Fire Clan had migrated to their permanent home, the time would come when they would be overcome by strange people. They would be forced to develop their land and lives according to the dictates of a new ruler, or else they would be treated as criminals and punished.”

>> How did Maasaw become invisible? Did he use some type of cloaking device? Was it some sort of invisibility shield? This idea shouldn’t surprise anons at all since we know the military worldwide has been developing or trying to develop such things for their machinery. Where do you think (((they))) got the idea from? (((They))) have been studying and trying to reverse engineer the Atlantean technology for a long time now. This could be one of the hidden technologies from mankind. We also have a projection of this with Harry Potter’s cloak of invisibility by the way. We’ve seen it plenty around as well in MANY Hollywood movies.

“But they were not to resist. They were to wait for the person who would deliver them.

This person was their lost white brother, Pahana, who would return to them with the missing corner piece of the tablet, deliver them from their persecutors, and work out with them a new and universal brotherhood of man. But, warned Maasaw if their leader accepted any other religion, he must assent to having his head cut off. This would dispel the evil and save his people.”

>> The way it is worded here, it makes the reader feel like they are talking about the White Europeans whom rediscovered the Americans and established colonies there. This is what the prophecy sounds like, anyways.

It’s funny how the Evil Cult calls the Light evil and it shouldn’t be followed; while at the same time, they call themselves good ^_^ This is the world upside down.

• Page 2 338 –

>>16655274

(Please read from the start)

“How Can The Hopi Recognize Their Lost White Brother, Pahana?

Maasaw was the deity of the Fire Clan who gave the sacred tablet to the Hopi just before he turned around and became invisible. He wanted the Hopi to hear the sound of his voice and remember what he had said. Maasaw told the Hopi “After the Fire Clan had migrated to their permanent home, the time would come when they would be overcome by strange people. They would be forced to develop their land and lives according to the dictates of a new ruler, or else they would be treated as criminals and punished.

But they were not to resist. They were to wait for the person who would deliver them.

This person was their lost white brother, Pahana, who would return to them with the missing corner piece of the tablet, deliver them from their persecutors, and work out with them a new and universal brotherhood of man. But, warned Maasaw if their leader accepted any other religion, he must assent to having his head cut off. This would dispel the evil and save his people.”

>> If Pahana was of the Light, he would have never cut the head of the Hopi leader, but he would have forgiven him for his mistake. Red is the color of????

“So, the people of the Fire Clan don’t need to worry that they may not recognize Pahana when he returns from the east, or that they are deceived by an imposter. The Hopi know he will be carrying the missing bit of the sacred tablet.

Many of the Hopi believe we are living in the “End Times”, and therefore they expect Pahana to return soon. The lost white brother should arrive before the time of the “Great Purification” of Hopi prophecy.

The belief in the lost white brother is so strong that the Hopi even bury their dead facing east in expectation of the Pahana who will come from that direction.”

>> The Great Purification and the End of Times from the Hopi mythology is extremely close to what was planted at the end of the New Testament and deceitfully attributed to the Apostle John. It’s what the Christians call the End of Times, Armageddon, Apocalypse. Please stop there for a second and ask yourselves how the Hopi and the European Christians have the same “prophecy” without any prior contact between them until the rediscovery of the Americans? Can you figure it out?

This is it for Maasaw and Pahana.

• Page 2 339 –

>>16655282

(Please read from the start)

The Hopi are the westernmost group of Pueblo Indians. There is one archaeological site from the Pueblo Indians which stands out more than the others; it’s called Mesa Verde. So let’s take a look at it next. A bit of site seeing is always interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_Verde_National_Park

“Mesa Verde National Park is an American national park and UNESCO World Heritage Site located in Montezuma County, Colorado. The park protects some of the best-preserved Ancestral Puebloan archaeological sites in the United States.

Established by Congress and President Theodore Roosevelt in 1906, the park occupies 52,485 acres (21,240 ha) near the Four Corners region of the American Southwest. With more than 5,000 sites, including 600 cliff dwellings, it is the largest archaeological preserve in the United States. Mesa Verde (Spanish for "green table") is best known for structures such as Cliff Palace, thought to be the largest cliff dwelling in North America.

Starting c. 7500 BC Mesa Verde was seasonally inhabited by a group of nomadic Paleo-Indians known as the Foothills Mountain Complex. The variety of projectile points found in the region indicates they were influenced by surrounding areas, including the Great Basin, the San Juan Basin, and the Rio Grande Valley. Later, Archaic people established semi-permanent rock shelters in and around the mesa. By 1000 BC, the Basketmaker culture emerged from the local Archaic population, and by 750 AD the Ancestral Puebloans had developed from the Basketmaker culture.

The Mesa Verdeans survived using a combination of hunting, gathering, and subsistence farming of crops such as corn, beans, and squash. They built the mesa's first pueblos sometime after 650, and by the end of the 12th century, they began to construct the massive cliff dwellings for which the park is best known. By 1285, following a period of social and environmental instability driven by a series of severe and prolonged droughts, they abandoned the area and moved south to locations in Arizona and New Mexico, including the Rio Chama, the Albuquerque Basin, the Pajarito Plateau, and the foot of the Sangre de Cristo Mountains.

Inhabitants

Paleo-Indians

The first occupants of the Mesa Verde region, which spans from southeastern Utah to northwestern New Mexico, were nomadic Paleo-Indians who arrived in the area c. 9500 BC.They followed herds of big game and camped near rivers and streams, many of which dried up as the glaciers that once covered parts of the San Juan Mountains receded. The earliest Paleo-Indians were the Clovis culture and Folsom tradition, defined largely by how they fashioned projectile points. Although they left evidence of their presence throughout the region, there is little indication that they lived in central Mesa Verde during this time.”

>>The information here is supporting what I have been telling you about the role of the rivers and the migrants using them to navigate and in the same time, the information is supporting what I have been telling about the Ice Age that took place after the Flood, as part of the Cataclysm.

• Page 2 340 –

>>16655289

(Please read from the start)

“After 9600 BC, the area's environment grew warmer and drier, a change that brought to central Mesa Verde pine forests and the animals that thrive in them. Paleo-Indians began inhabiting the mesa in increasing numbers c. 7500 BC, though it is unclear whether they were seasonal occupants or year-round residents. Development of the atlatl during this period made it easier for them to hunt smaller game, a crucial advance at a time when most of the region's big game had disappeared from the landscape.”

>> The Flood waters receded and the weather warmed up so areas with better soil and game showed up which lead to resettlement of the survivors and a new wave of migration happened. This is what I’ve been trying to explain to you so many times now. And this didn’t just happen in North America; it happened worldwide = the entire planet was affected.

“Archaic

6000 BC marks the beginning of the Archaic period in North America. Archaeologists differ as to the origin of the Mesa Verde Archaic population; some believe they developed exclusively from local Paleo-Indians, called the Foothills Mountain Complex, but others suggest that the variety of projectile points found in Mesa Verde indicates influence from surrounding areas, including the Great Basin, the San Juan Basin, and the Rio Grande Valley. The Archaic people probably developed locally, but were also influenced by contact, trade, and intermarriage with immigrants from these outlying areas.

The early Archaic people living near Mesa Verde utilized the atlatl and harvested a wider variety of plants and animals than the Paleo-Indians had while retaining their primarily nomadic lifestyle. They inhabited the outlying areas of the Mesa Verde region, but also the mountains, mesa tops, and canyons, where they created rock shelters and rock art, and left evidence of animal processing and chert knapping. Environmental stability during the period drove population expansion and migration. Major warming and drying from 5000 to 2500 might have led middle Archaic people to seek the cooler climate of Mesa Verde, whose higher elevation brought increased snowpack that, when coupled with spring rains, provided relatively plentiful amounts of water.”

>> We saw the same cave dwellings in Phoenicia and we think they are the oldest type of dwellings as people adapted the rock cliffs, carved them into living quarters and houses. I’ve also been suspecting something of the same or similar might have happened around Lake Titicaca in the Andean region, near the City-State of Tiwanaku. It’s not that clear there, but it’s obvious the big rocks and cliffs around the lake area had some type of use before Tiwanaku was built. Here in Mesa Verde, we have the same type of situation.

“By the late Archaic, more people were living in semi-permanent rock shelters that preserved perishable goods such as baskets, sandals, and mats. They started to make a variety of twig figurines that usually resembled sheep or deer. The late Archaic is marked by increased trade in exotic materials such as obsidian and turquoise. Marine shells and abalone from the Pacific coast made their way to Mesa Verde from Arizona, and the Archaic people worked them into necklaces and pendants. Rock art flourished, and people lived in rudimentary houses made of mud and wood. Their early attempts at plant domestication eventually developed into the sustained agriculture that marked the end of the Archaic period, c. 1000.”

>> See how it evolved and developed? We have the same situation in the Middle East and I’m suspecting it’s the case with Tiwanaku as well.

• Page 2 341 –

>>16655294

(Please read from the start)

“Basketmaker culture

With the introduction of corn to the Mesa Verde region c. 1000 BC and the trend away from nomadism toward permanent pithouse settlements, the Archaic Mesa Verdeans transitioned into what archaeologists call the Basketmaker culture. Basketmaker II people are characterized by their combination of foraging and farming skills, use of the atlatl, and creation of finely woven baskets in the absence of earthen pottery. By 300, corn had become the preeminent staple of the Basketmaker II people's diet, which relied less and less on wild food sources and more on domesticated crops.”

>> All that we’ve read so far are the transformation of the survivors from migrants whom are struggling to find food and shelter, to the survivors whom managed to settle down in better, permanent places, abandoning their nomadic life style, after the weather settled down.

“In addition to the fine basketry for which they were named, Basketmaker II people fashioned a variety of household items from plant and animal materials, including sandals, robes, pouches, mats, and blankets. They also made clay pipes and gaming pieces. Basketmaker men were relatively short and muscular, averaging less than 5.5 feet (1.7 m) tall. Their skeletal remains reveal signs of hard labor and extensive travel, including degenerative joint disease, healed fractures, and moderate anemia associated with iron deficiency. They buried their dead near or amongst their settlements, and often included luxury items as gifts, which might indicate differences in relative social status. Basketmaker II people are also known for their distinctive rock art, which can be found throughout Mesa Verde. They depicted animals and people, in both abstract and realistic forms, in single works and more elaborate panels. A common subject was the hunchbacked flute player that the Hopi call Kokopelli.”

>> A little detour is necessary here as I want to check out Kokopelli: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kokopelli

“Kokopelli (/ˌkoʊkoʊˈpɛliː/) is a fertility deity, usually depicted as a humpbacked flute player (often with feathers or antenna-like protrusions on his head), who is venerated by some Native American cultures in the Southwestern United States. Like most fertility deities, Kokopelli presides over both childbirth and agriculture. He is also a trickster god and master braider and represents the spirit of music.”

>> Kokopelli looks a lot like an Antelope warrior but he also seems to have some traits from the ThunderBirds. The oddest is him presiding over childbirth. So what is he exactly? Seems like he is a composite of 2 entities: an Antelope warrior and a ThunderBird; with the Antelope attributes being the dominant ones.

• Page 2 342 –

>>16655301

(Please read from the start)

“Myths

Among the Hopi, Kokopelli carries unborn children on his back and distributes them to women; for this reason, young girls often fear him. He often takes part in rituals relating to marriage, and Kokopelli himself is sometimes depicted with a consort, a woman called Kokopelmimi by the Hopi. It is said that Kokopelli can be seen on the full and waning moon, much like the "man" or the "rabbit" on the moon.

“Kokopelli also presides over the reproduction of game animals, and for this reason, he is often depicted with animal companions such as rams and deer. Other common creatures associated with him include sun-bathing animals such as snakes, or water-loving animals like lizards and insects.”

>> The more I read about Kokopelli, the more I see 2 sides of him = one of the Light and one from either the Antelope or from the Serpent Clan. The first paragraph gives us the impression that Kokopelli doesn’t hurt children but is seen more like a fecundity distributor (or fertility deity) since he is giving unborn children (whom are still alive) to women; as in getting them pregnant. But in the second paragraph Kokopelli is projecting the image of someone from either the Serpent Clan and most importantly from the Antelope Clan.

“In his domain over agriculture, Kokopelli's flute-playing chases away the winter and brings about spring. Many tribes, such as the Zuni, also associate Kokopelli with the rains. He frequently appears with Paiyatamu, another flutist, in depictions of maize-grinding ceremonies. Some tribes say he carries seeds and babies on his back.

In recent years, the emasculated (i.e. non-ithyphallic) version of Kokopelli has been adopted as a broader symbol of the Southwestern United States as a whole. His image adorns countless items such as T-shirts, ball caps, key-chains, and patio decor. A bicycle trail between Grand Junction, Colorado, and Moab, Utah, is now known as the Kokopelli Trail.”

>> When I read the information provided in these 2 paragraphs I’m reminded of the deity Pan from Greek mythology. He was known to be constantly horny with his genitals always in display. He was known to play the flute as well as he was associated with fertility and with Spring. Kokopelli and Pan are incredibly similar, almost identical.

“Origins and development

Kokopelli has been revered since at least the time of the Hohokam, Yuman, and Ancestral Puebloan peoples. The first known images of him appear on Hohokam pottery dated to sometime between 750 and 850 AD.

Kokopelli may have originally been a representation of Aztec traders, known as pochtecas, who may have traveled to this region from northern Mesoamerica. These traders brought their goods in sacks slung across their backs and this sack may have evolved into Kokopelli's familiar hump; some tribes consider Kokopelli to have been a trader. These men may also have used flutes to announce themselves as friendly as they approached a settlement. This origin is still in doubt, however, since the first known images of Kokopelli predate the major era of Mesoamerican-Ancestral Pueblo peoples trade by several hundred years, as well as the Aztec Empire and its pochtecas.”

>> The carrying of a sack on the back is a good theory into explaining the hunched back of Kokopelli, but I wonder if the rest of the given explanation is valid since I think this is a warrior from most probably the Antelope Clan whom lived long long ago, way before the Aztecs established their civilization.

• Page 2 343 –

>>16655312

(Please read from the start)

“Many believe that Kokopelli was more than a trader, and more significantly, an important conveyor of information and trinkets from afar. As a storyteller par excellence, Kokopelli had the gift of languages, with a formidable repertoire of body-language storytelling skills to complement his many talents. Kokopelli's usual noisy announcement upon arrival secured both the identity, and therefore the safety, of his unique presence into a community. Often accompanied by an apprentice in his travels and trade, Kokopelli was important in linking distant and diverse communities together. In the South American Andes, the 'Ekeko' character functioned in much the same way. Upon arrival, his banging and clanging of his wares dangling all about his person signaled to all that a night of entertainment and trade of his goods and talismans was at hand.

Even today, occasional outside visitors may be called or referred to as 'Kokopelli' when they bring news, stories, and trinkets from the outside world to share with the little pueblos or villages.

Another theory is that Kokopelli is actually an anthropomorphic insect. Many of the earliest depictions of Kokopelli make him very insect-like in appearance. The name "Kokopelli" may be a combination of "Koko", another Hopi and Zuni deity, and "pelli",the Hopi and Zuni word for the desert robber fly, an insect with a prominent proboscis and a rounded back, which is also noted for its zealous sexual proclivities. A more recent etymology is that Kokopelli means literally "kachina hump". Because the Hopi were the tribe from whom the Spanish explorers first learned of the god, their name is the one most commonly used.”

>> These are just theories and they are far away from the truth.

“Kokopelli is one of the most easily recognized figures found in the petroglyphs and pictographs of the Southwest. The earliest known petroglyph of the figure dates to about 1000 AD. The Spanish missionaries in the area convinced the Hopi craftsmen to usually omit the phallus from their representations of the figure. As with most kachinas, the Hopi Kokopelli was often represented by a human dancer. Kokopelli is a cottonwood sculpture often carved today.”

>>He reminds me so much of Pan, the Greek deity. the kachinas are the Sebetti clan warriors = from various clans of course.

“A similar humpbacked figure is found in artifacts of the Mississippian culture of the United States southeast. Between approximately 1200 to 1400 AD, water vessels were crafted in the shape of a humpbacked woman. These forms may represent a cultural heroine or founding ancestor, and may also reflect concepts related to the life-giving blessings of water and fertility.

Other names

• Kokopele

• Kokopilli

• Kokopilau

• Neopkwai'i (Pueblo)

• Ololowishkya (Zuni)

• La Kokopel”

• Page 2 344 –

>>16655332

(Please read from the start)

>> I would like to ask you to take the information in this last paragraph with a huge grain of salt. If there is another depiction of a hunch back woman in the Mississippian culture, it doesn’t mean it’s related or connected to Kokopelli = more details should exist before making the connection. And it’s incorrect to attribute the depiction of the hunch back woman to the Mississippian culture, mostly that we know there has been an initial mysterious culture which abandoned the area and then it was replaced by another culture; I’m mostly talking about the Cahokia mounds here. So it’s important to verify things and make sure we got it right before making attributions of the sort we have in this last paragraph.

Kokopelli is very difficult to figure out. It’s like he’s ¾ an Antelope warrior and a ¼ a ThunderBird warrior. He has all the physical characteristics and attributes of an Antelope warrior and he is strikingly similar to the Greek deity Pan. And a small part of him has the characteristics and attributes of a ThunderBird with the feathers and bringing in the rain. He doesn’t seem from what is written about him here that he harms children. He is seen more like a fertility deity whom grants wishes for women to get pregnant = have children. So this contradicts with the pedovore image we usually have from Horned Serpent Clan. Notice though, Kokopelli is certainly NOT a Horned Serpent; despite him having sometimes the shape of a serpent, he retains mostly the shape of a hunch back person with antlers on his head = Antelope.

The question is: Is Kokopelli a bad warrior or a good warrior?

It’s incredibly hard to answer that for many reasons:

1 – Not all Antelope warriors joined Darkness, some remained in the Light but they are a tiny minority; so Kokopelli could be an Antelope warrior which didn’t turn Dark/Evil.

2 – He could have been an evil Antelope warrior and done many bad/evil deeds, but the natives decided at some point to omit them, not mentioned them and only kept his “good” qualities in the oral tradition transmitted to younger generations.

3 – The natives could have merged 2 different warrior tales making them one person, attributing everything to one warrior. I think this has the highest possibility: they took tales from the Antelope warrior whom is the dominant character and mixed them with the tales and attributes of a minor character which seems to be a ThunderBird.

As I just said, I think this is the most likely possibility which occurred here with Kokopelli. And this is how he came to us, in this “format”. Let’s get back to where we left off with the Wikipedia page of Mesa Verde.

• Page 2 345 –

>>16655344

(Please read from the start)

“By 500 AD, atlatls were being supplanted by the bow and arrow and baskets by pottery, marking the end of the Basketmaker II Era and the beginning of the Basketmaker III Era. Ceramic vessels were a major improvement over pitch-lined baskets, gourds, and animal hide containers, which had been the primary water storage containers in the region. Pottery also protected seeds against mold, insects, and rodents. By 600, Mesa Verdeans were using clay pots to cook soups and stews.Year-round settlements first appear around this time. The population of the San Juan Basin increased markedly after 575, when there were very few Basketmaker III sites in Mesa Verde; by the early 7th century, there were many such sites in the mesa. For the next 150 years, villages typically consisted of small groups of one to three residences. The population of Mesa Verde c. 675 was approximately 1,000 to 1,500 people.

Beans and new varieties of corn were introduced to the region c. 700. By 775, some settlements had grown to accommodate more than one hundred people; the construction of large, above-ground storage buildings began around this time. Basketmakers endeavored to store enough food for their family for one year, but also retained residential mobility so they could quickly relocate their dwellings in the event of resource depletion or consistently inadequate crop yields. By the end of the 8th century, the smaller hamlets, which were typically occupied for ten to forty years, had been supplanted by larger ones that saw continuous occupation for as many as two generations. Basketmaker III people established a tradition of holding large ceremonial gatherings near community pit structures.

Ancestral Puebloans

Pueblo I: 750 to 900

750 marks the end of the Basketmaker III Era and the beginning of the Pueblo I period. The transition is characterized by major changes in the design and construction of buildings and the organization of household activities. Pueblo I people doubled their capacity for food storage from one year to two and built interconnected, year-round residences called pueblos. Many household activities that had previously been reserved for subterranean pithouses were moved to these above-ground dwellings. This altered the function of pithouses from all-purpose spaces to ones used primarily for community ceremonies, although they continued to house large extended families, particularly during winter months. During the late 8th century, Mesa Verdeans began building square pit structures that archaeologists call protokivas. They were typically 3 or 4 feet (0.91 or 1.22 m) deep and 12 to 20 feet (3.7 to 6.1 m) wide.”

>> The dates should be re-evaluated, re-checked…not just about this site, but about everything we talked about in this thread. And… when you look at the earliest constructions worldwide, it seems the circular shape came first, then the square/rectangle shape. This is indicating that the circular shape was the shape used by the survivors of the Cataclysm, which in turn indicates that they brought it along with them from before the Cataclysm; which in turn indicates the constructions of dwellings before the Cataclysm might have been circular in shape.

• Page 2 346 –

>>16655352

(Please read from the start)

“The first pueblos appeared at Mesa Verde sometime after 650; by 850 more than half of Mesa Verdeans lived in them. As local populations grew, Puebloans found it difficult to survive on hunting, foraging, and gardening, which made them increasingly reliant on domesticated corn. This shift from semi-nomadism to a "sedentary and communal way of life changed ancestral Pueblo society forever". Within a generation the average number of households in these settlements grew from 1-3 to 15-20, with average populations of two hundred people. Population density increased dramatically, with as many as a dozen families occupying roughly the same space that had formerly housed two. This brought increased security against raids and encouraged greater cooperation amongst residents. It also facilitated trade and intermarriage between clans, and by the late 8th century, as Mesa Verde's population was being augmented by settlers from the south, four distinct cultural groups occupied the same villages.

Large Pueblo I settlements laid claim to the resources found within 15 to 30 square miles (39 to 78 km2). They were typically organized in groups of at least three and spaced about 1 mile (1.6 km) apart. By 860, there were approximately 8,000 people living in Mesa Verde. Within the plazas of larger villages, the Pueblo I people dug massive pit structures of 800 square feet (74 m2) that became central gathering places. These structures represent early architectural expressions of what would eventually develop into the Pueblo II Era great houses of Chaco Canyon. Despite robust growth during the early and mid-9th century, unpredictable rainfall and periodic drought led to a dramatic reversal of settlement trends in the area. Many late Pueblo I villages were abandoned after less than forty years of occupation, and by 880 Mesa Verde's population was in steady decline. The beginning of the 10th century saw widespread depopulation of the region, as people emigrated south of the San Juan River to Chaco Canyon in search of reliable rains for farming. As Mesa Verdeans migrated south, to where many of their ancestors had emigrated two hundred years before, the influence of Chaco Canyon grew, and by 950 Chaco had supplanted Mesa Verde as the region's cultural center.

Pueblo II: 900 to 1150

The Pueblo II Period is marked by the growth and outreach of communities centered around the great houses of Chaco Canyon. Despite their participation in the vast Chacoan system, Mesa Verdeans retained a distinct cultural identity while melding regional innovation with ancient tradition, inspiring further architectural advancements; the 9th century Mesa Verdean pueblos influenced two hundred years of Chacoan great house construction. Droughts during the late 9th century rendered Mesa Verdean dry land farming unreliable, which led to their growing crops only near drainages for the next 150 years. Crop yields returned to healthy levels by the early 11th century. By 1050 the population of the area began to rebound; as agricultural prosperity increased, people immigrated to Mesa Verde from the south.

Mesa Verdean farmers increasingly relied on masonry reservoirs during the Pueblo II Era. During the 11th century, they built check dams and terraces near drainages and slopes in an effort to conserve soil and runoff. These fields offset the danger of crop failures in the larger dry land fields. By the mid-10th and early 11th centuries, protokivas had evolved into smaller circular structures called kivas, which were usually 12 to 15 feet (3.7 to 4.6 m) across. These Mesa Verde-style kivas included a feature from earlier times called a sipapu, which is a hole dug in the north of the chamber and symbolizes the Ancestral Puebloan's place of emergence from the underworld. At this time, Mesa Verdeans began to move away from the post and mud jacal-style buildings that marked the Pueblo I Period toward masonry construction, which had been utilized in the region as early as 700, but was not widespread until the 11th and 12th centuries.”

• Page 2 347 –

>>16655357

(Please read from the start)

>> What is a Sipapu? Let’s take another small detour to check it out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sipapu

“A sipapu (a Hopi word) was a small hole or indentation in the floor of a kiva (pithouse). Kivas were used by the Ancestral Puebloans and continue to be used by modern-day Puebloans. The sipapu symbolizes the portal through which their ancient ancestors first emerged to enter the present world.

Hopi mythology (and similar traditions in other Pueblo cultures such as the Zuni and Acoma) states that this is the hole from which the first peoples of this world entered. As they stepped outside of the sipapu, they changed from lizard-like beings into human form. It is from this point that the "First Peoples" of the Earth began to divide and separate, becoming tribes. The original sipapu is said to be located in the Grand Canyon.”

>>They are clearly saying that they are from the Serpent Clan here.

Some say it’s a portal, or that Beam of light with swirling electricity around it. But it sounds more like the Sipapu is the Ark from where the survivor came out. When you think about it, it fits. When the survivors came out of the Ark and started to migrate in many waves and settled to resettle as the Flood water receded and the Ice Age retreated, they told tales of where they come out from to the younger generations. At some point in time, the Arks fossilized as the Ark on Mt Ararat is proof that the Arks really did turn into a fossilized big piece. So after some time the younger generation went back to check where their ancestors came from and they found this huge mound like rock = the fossilized Ark, which they got inside via some opening. When they went back to their tribe, they narrated what they saw and they started to reproduce on a small scale the ark, thinking it’s some sort of mound or some sort of small hill with a hole in it.

It’s also starting to make sense the tales, myths and legends of humans coming out from caves, like how it was the case with the Ayar brothers from the Andean region (already seen in this thread). The cave wasn’t a real cave, it was the fossilized Ark.

And for those whom want to research this deeper, Vitruvius in his work: Di Architectura, describes the dwellings of the Armenians which are incredibly similar, almost identical to the sipapu we have here.

Let’s get back to where we left off with the Mesa Verde Wikipedia page after this quick look at the sipapu.

“The expansion of Chacoan influence in the Mesa Verde area left its most visible mark in the form of Chaco-style masonry great houses that became the focal point of many Mesa Verdean villages after 1075. Far View House, the largest of these, is considered a classic Chaco "outlier," on which construction likely began between 1075 and 1125, although some archaeologists argue that it was begun as early as 1020.The era's timber and earth unit pueblos were typically inhabited for about twenty years. During the early 12th century, the locus of regional control shifted away from Chaco to Aztec, New Mexico, in the southern Mesa Verde region.By 1150, drought had once again stressed the region's inhabitants, leading to a temporary cessation of great house construction at Mesa Verde.”

• Page 2 348 –

>>16655363

(Please read from the start)

“Pueblo III: 1150 to 1300

A severe drought from 1130 to 1180 led to rapid depopulation in many parts of the San Juan Basin, particularly at Chaco Canyon. As the extensive Chacoan system collapsed, people increasingly migrated to Mesa Verde, causing major population growth in the area. This led to much larger settlements of six to eight hundred people, which reduced mobility for Mesa Verdeans, who had in the past frequently relocated their dwellings and fields as part of their agriculture strategy. In order to sustain these larger populations, they dedicated more and more of their labor to farming. Population increases also led to expanded tree felling that reduced habitat for many wild plant and animal species that the Mesa Verdeans had relied on, further deepening their dependency on domesticated crops that were susceptible to drought-related failure.

The Chacoan system brought large quantities of imported goods to Mesa Verde during the late 11th and early 12th centuries, including pottery, shells, and turquoise, but by the late 12th century, as the system collapsed, the amount of goods imported by the mesa quickly declined, and Mesa Verde became isolated from the surrounding region. For approximately six hundred years, most Mesa Verdean farmers had lived in small, mesa-top homesteads of one or two families. They were typically located near their fields and walking distance to sources of water. This practice continued into the mid- to late 12th century, but by the start of the 13th century they began living in canyon locations that were close to water sources and within walking distance of their fields.

Mesa Verdean villages thrived during the mid-Pueblo III Era, when architects constructed massive, multi-story buildings, and artisans adorned pottery with increasingly elaborate designs. Structures built during this period have been described as "among the world's greatest archaeological treasures".Pueblo III masonry buildings were typically occupied for approximately fifty years, more than double the usable lifespan of the Pueblo II jacal structures. Others were continuously inhabited for two hundred years or more. Architectural innovations such as towers and multi-walled structures also appear during the Pueblo III Era. Mesa Verde's population remained fairly stable during the 12th century drought. At the start of the 13th century, approximately 22,000 people lived there. The area saw moderate population increases during the following decades, and dramatic ones from 1225 to 1260. Most of the people in the region lived in the plains west of the mesa at locations such as Yellow Jacket Pueblo, near Cortez, Colorado.Others colonized canyon rims and slopes in multi-family structures that grew to unprecedented size as populations swelled. By 1260, the majority of Mesa Verdeans lived in large pueblos that housed several families and more than one hundred people.

The 13th century saw 69 years of below average rainfall in the Mesa Verde region, and after 1270 the area suffered from especially cold temperatures. Dendrochronology indicates that the last tree felled for construction on the mesa was cut in 1281. There was a major decline in ceramic imports to the region during this time, but local production remained steady. Despite challenging conditions, the Puebloans continued to farm the area until a severely dry period from 1276 to 1299 ended seven hundred years of continuous human occupation at Mesa Verde. Archaeologists refer to this period as the "Great Drought".The last inhabitants of the mesa left the area c. 1285.”

>> The information provided here is important because it’s pointing to migrations and constant demographic changes; in other words, mixing occurred with this Horned Serpent Clan as time passed.

• Page 2 349 –

>>16655375

(Please read from the start)

“Warfare

During the Pueblo III period (1150 to 1300), Mesa Verdeans built numerous stone masonry towers that likely served as defensive structures. They often incorporated hidden tunnels connecting the towers to associated kivas. Warfare was conducted using the same tools the Mesa Verdeans used for hunting game, including bows and arrows, stone axes, and wooden clubs and spears. They also crafted hide and basket shields that were used only during battles. Periodic warfare occurred on the mesa throughout the 13th century. Civic leaders in the region likely attained power and prestige by distributing food during times of drought. This system probably broke down during the "Great Drought", leading to intense warfare between competing clans.Increasing economic and social uncertainty during the century's final decades led to widespread conflict. Evidence of partly burned villages and post-mortem trauma have been uncovered, and the residents of one village appear to have been the victims of a site-wide massacre.”

>> This doesn’t project a peaceful and kind image of the residents at all.

“Evidence of violence and cannibalism has been documented in the central Mesa Verde region. While most of the violence, which peaked between 1275 and 1285, is generally ascribed to in-fighting amongst Mesa Verdeans, archaeological evidence found at Sand Canyon Pueblo, in Canyons of the Ancients National Monument, suggests that violent interactions also occurred between Mesa Verdeans and people from outside the region. Evidence of the attacks was discovered by members of the Crow Canyon Archaeological Center during the 1990s. The assaults, which also occurred at the national monument's Castle Rock Pueblo, were dated to c. 1280, and are considered to have effectively ended several centuries of Puebloan occupation at those sites. Many of the victims showed signs of skull fractures, and the uniformity of the injuries suggest that most were inflicted with a small stone axe. Others were scalped, dismembered, and cannibalized. The anthropophagy (cannibalism) might have been undertaken as a survival strategy during times of starvation. The archaeological record indicates that, rather than being isolated to the Mesa Verde region, violent conflict was widespread in North America during the late 13th and early 14th centuries, and was likely exacerbated by global climate changes that negatively affected food supplies throughout the continent.”

>> The reason for the cannibalism is not hunger and lack of food supplies; it’s because there were some, maybe the elites in Mesa Verde, whom were part of the Horned Serpent Clan. They transmitted (((their))) cult to the younger generations. Seeing that the number of cannibalized remains is not that big, it’s possible (((their))) numbers were small, or (((they))) practiced this “occasionally” and not regularly. Another possibility is that (((they))) infiltrated and settled in Mesa Verde at a late date during one of the migration waves and cannibalism wasn’t practiced there from the get go; but was brought in via migration at a much later date.

• Page 2 350 –

>>16655378

(Please read from the start)

“Migration

The Mesa Verde region saw unusually cold and dry conditions during the beginning of the 13th century. This might have driven emigration to Mesa Verde from less hospitable locations. The added population stressed the mesa's environment, further straining an agricultural society that was suffering from drought. The region's bimodal precipitation pattern, which brought rainfall during spring and summer and snowfall during autumn and winter, began to fail post-1250. After 1260, there was a rapid depopulation of Mesa Verde, as "tens of thousands of people" emigrated or died from starvation. Many smaller communities in the Four Corners region were also abandoned during this period. The Ancestral Puebloans had a long history of migration in the face of environmental instability, but the depopulation of Mesa Verde at the end of the 13th century was different in that the region was almost completely emptied, and no descendants returned to build permanent settlements. While drought, resource depletion, and overpopulation all contributed to instability during the last two centuries of Ancestral Puebloan occupation, their overdependence on maize crops is considered the "fatal flaw" of their subsistence strategy.

The vacating Mesa Verdeans left almost no direct evidence of their migration, but they left behind household goods, including cooking utensils, tools, and clothing, which gave archaeologists the impression that the emigration was haphazard or hurried. An estimated 20,000 people lived in the region during the 13th century, but by the start of the 14th century the area was nearly uninhabited. Many emigrants relocated to southern Arizona and New Mexico. Although the rate of settlement is unclear, increases in sparsely populated areas, such as Rio Chama, Pajarito Plateau, and Santa Fe, correspond directly with the period of migration from Mesa Verde. Archaeologists believe the Mesa Verdeans who settled in the areas near the Rio Grande, where Mesa Verde black-on-white pottery became widespread during the 14th century, were likely related to the households they joined and not unwelcome intruders. Archaeologists view this migration as a continuation, versus a dissolution, of Ancestral Puebloan society and culture.Many others relocated to the banks of the Little Colorado River, in western New Mexico and eastern Arizona. While archaeologists tend to focus on the "push" factors that drove the Mesa Verdeans away from the region, there were also several environmental "pull factors", such as warmer temperatures, better farming conditions, plentiful timber, and bison herds, which incentivized relocation to the area near the Rio Grande. In addition to numerous settlements along the Rio Grande, contemporary descendants of the Mesa Verdeans live in pueblos at Acoma, Zuni, Jemez, and Laguna.”

>> I have a little problem with the weather/ better living condition excuse/interpretation given here. This explanation provided by the Main Stream History = the official narrative can be a possible factor as to why Mesa Verde was abandoned like that. I’m not denying it’s a possibility.

My problem lays with a part of the objects the people left behind in Mesa Verde, specifically the tools and the clothing. These 2 types of objects are among the first ones you take with you if you are migrating and abandoning your village, in ancient times. Tools are crucial and essential to survival and they are considered as one of the most important possessions to the populace as they rely heavily on them to live. Crafting the tools is hard in the first place and it’s expensive and time consuming as well, mostly if it was made of metal. Back then, you couldn’t just walk into a store and buy a hammer or a shovel any time you needed one. And when you migrate, you need those tools in order to build your new house in your new migration place. You also need them if you need to find work there, as in if you are a carpenter, you need your tools to work there and make some furniture for example for people to buy…. It’s just a fictive example, but I guess anons understand my point. No matter what type of tools they are, I’m certain you don’t abandon them behind like this. It’s among the first thing you carry with you when you are migrating since it represents your survival and in the same time, it’s what you depend on to put bread on the table.

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>>16655382

(Please read from the start)

Do you have any idea how much work it takes to make clothing in the old times anons? If it’s made of cotton, linen or fur and animal skin; processing it and turning it into clothes is loads of work anons, mostly in ancient times. So these are also objects you do not abandon behind. Even if you have too much clothing in ancient times, these were considered goods of value which could be traded or sold, apart being worn. If you are migrating and you have loads of clothes, you don’t abandon them, you take them all, and you can sell the “extra” pieces while traveling, or barter them with something else. So here again anons, I’m a little bothered by this detail.

For me, both of these small details are indicating the people whom left Mesa Verde, left it in a rush and life threatening situation. If you want to migrate, it means you have time to pack. When you have time to pack, it means you have time to think what is an important item for you to take with you and what you can abandon behind you. For such important and vital items to be left behind, it means whomever owned them had moments to flee.

So whatever caused these people to flee in a hurry, it wasn’t because of lack of food or anything of the sort. It was either they were fleeing a natural disaster like a terrible flood, a volcano erupting, etc. Or they were fleeing from a war as in a massacre. It’s gotta be something which makes you abandon your “precious” belongings and run for it without looking back, or coming back to take what you left behind.

“Organization

Although Chaco Canyon might have exerted regional control over Mesa Verde during the late 11th and early 12th centuries, most archaeologists view the Mesa Verde region as a collection of smaller communities based on central sites and related outliers that were never fully integrated into a larger civic structure. Several ancient roads, averaging 15 to 45 feet (4.6 to 13.7 m) wide and lined with earthen berms, have been identified in the region. Most appear to connect communities and shrines; others encircle great house sites. The extent of the network is unclear, but no roads have been discovered leading to the Chacoan Great North Road, or directly connecting Mesa Verde and Chacoan sites.”

>> I’m uncertain because I’m not an expert in Native American Archaeology, but from what is written here, it sounds very much like it’s the City-State system We used to have a City-State metropolis which had self-governance not just within the city walls, but it also had a territory under it’s jurisdiction. There used to be smaller towns and villages on that territory which were depended on the City-State metropolis. Of course the size changed and varied from one City-State to another, but the general concept is the same behind them all. And this is what I understand from this paragraph. Of course I might be wrong since I’m not expert in Native American History. It’s just an observation from my part based on my knowledge of other parts of the world.

“Ancestral Puebloan shrines, called herraduras, have been identified near road segments in the region. Their purpose is unclear, but several C-shaped herraduras have been excavated, and they are thought to have been "directional shrines" used to indicate the location of great houses.”

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>>16655387

(Please read from the start)

“Architecture

Mesa Verde is best known for a large number of well-preserved cliff dwellings, houses built in alcoves, or rock overhangs along the canyon walls. The structures contained within these alcoves were mostly blocks of hard sandstone, held together and plastered with adobe mortar. Specific constructions had many similarities but were generally unique in form due to the individual topography of different alcoves along the canyon walls. In marked contrast to earlier constructions and villages on top of the mesas, the cliff dwellings of Mesa Verde reflected a region-wide trend towards the aggregation of growing regional populations into close, highly defensible quarters during the 13th century.

Pueblo buildings were built with stone, windows facing south, and in U, E and L shapes. The buildings were located more closely together and reflected deepening religious celebration. Towers were built near kivas and likely used for lookouts. Pottery became more versatile, including pitchers, ladles, bowls, jars and dishware for food and drink. White pottery with black designs emerged, the pigments coming from plants. Water management and conservation techniques, including the use of reservoirs and silt-retaining dams, also emerged during this period. Styles for these sandstone/mortar constructions, both surface and cliff dwellings, included T-shaped windows and doors. This has been taken by some archaeologists, including Stephen H. Lekson, as evidence of the continuing reach of the Chacoan system. Other researchers see these elements as part of a more generalized Puebloan style or spiritual significance rather than evidence of a continuing specific elite socioeconomic system.

While much of the construction in these sites is consistent with common Pueblo architectural forms, including kivas, towers, and pit-houses, the space constrictions of these alcoves necessitated what seems to have been a far denser concentration of their populations. Mug House, a typical cliff dwelling of the period, was home to around 100 people who shared 94 small rooms and eight kivas built against each other and sharing many of their walls; builders in these areas maximized space in any way they could, with no areas considered off-limits to construction.

Astronomy

Mesa Verdeans used astronomical observations to plan their farming and religious ceremonies, drawing on both natural features in the landscape and masonry structures built for this purpose. Several great houses in the region were aligned to the cardinal directions, which positioned windows, doors, and walls along the path of the sun, whose rays would indicate the passing of seasons. Mesa Verde's Sun Temple is thought to have been an astronomical observatory.

The temple is D-shaped, and its alignment is 10.7 degrees off true east–west. Its location and orientation indicate that its builders understood the cycles of both the sun and the moon. It is aligned to the major lunar standstill, which occurs once every 18.6 years, and the sunset during the winter solstice, which can be viewed setting over the temple from a platform at the south end of Cliff Palace, across Fewkes Canyon. At the bottom of the canyon is the Sun Temple fire pit, which is illuminated by the first rays of the rising sun during the winter solstice. Sun Temple is one of the largest exclusively ceremonial structures ever built by the Ancestral Puebloans.”

>> I would like to add that because of the location of the Sun temple = where it was built, I won’t be surprised to fit some sort of fire pit which used to have fire light in it during night ceremonies, to be seen from a distance. It’s something similar to a beacon, but with a religious function, not a military one.

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>>16655391

(Please read from the start)

“Agriculture and water-control systems

Starting in the 6th century, the farmers living in central Mesa Verde cultivated corn, beans, squash, and gourds. The combination of corn and beans provided the Mesa Verdeans with the amino acids of a complete protein. When conditions were good, 3 or 4 acres (1.2 or 1.6 ha) of land would provide enough food for a family of three or four individuals for one year, providing they supplemented with game and wild plants. As Mesa Verdeans increasingly relied on corn as a dietary staple, the success or failure of crop yields factored heavily into their lives. The mesa tilts slightly to the south, which increased its exposure to the sun. Before the introduction of pottery, foods were baked, roasted, and parched. Hot rocks dropped into containers could bring water to a brief boil, but because beans must be boiled for an hour or more their use was not widespread until after pottery had disseminated throughout the region. With the increased availability of ceramics after 600, beans became much easier to cook. This provided a high quality protein that reduced reliance on hunting. It also aided corn cultivation, as legumes add much needed nutrients to soils they are grown in, which likely increased corn yields.

Most Mesa Verdeans practiced dry farming, which relied on rain to water their crops, but others utilized runoff, springs, seeps, and natural collection pools. Starting in the 9th century, they dug and maintained reservoirs that caught runoff from summer showers and spring snowmelt; some crops were watered by hand. Archaeologists believe that prior to the 13th century, springs and other sources of water were considered shared public resources, but as Mesa Verdeans moved into increasingly larger pueblos built near or around water supplies control was privatized and limited to members of the surrounding community.

Between 750 and 800, Mesa Verdeans began constructing two large water containment structures in canyon bottoms – the Morefield and Box Elder reservoirs. Soon afterward, work began on two more: the Far View and Sagebrush reservoirs, which were approximately 90 feet (27 m) across and constructed on the mesa top. The reservoirs lie on an east–west line that runs for approximately 6 miles (9.7 km), which suggests builders followed a centralized plan for the system. In 2004, the American Society of Civil Engineers designated these four structures as National Civil Engineering Historic Landmarks. A 2014 geospatial analyses suggested that neither collection nor retention of water was possible in the Far View Reservoir. This interpretation views the structure as a ceremonial space with procession roads in an adaptation of Chacoan culture.”

>> It would be great if someone looked into the water/irrigation system in Mesa Verde and compared it to what we have elsewhere in the world. It might match, or it might not; we simply have to discover if it does or not.

“Hunting and foraging

Mesa Verdeans typically harvested local small game, but sometimes organized hunting parties that traveled long distances. Their main sources of animal protein came from mule deer and rabbits, but they occasionally hunted Bighorn sheep, antelope, and elk. They began to domesticate turkeys starting around 1000, and by the 13th century consumption of the animal peaked, supplanting deer as the primary protein source at many sites. These domesticated turkeys consumed large amounts of corn, which further deepened reliance on the staple crop. Puebloans wove blankets from turkey feathers and rabbit fur, and made implements such as awls and needles from turkey and deer bones. Despite the availability of fish in the area's rivers and streams, archaeological evidence suggests that they were rarely eaten.”

>> Remember what I was telling you about clothes and it needs labor/work to do them, to produce them? This is why you don’t simply leave them behind because they are valuable items which could be sold or bartered with, as well as using them.

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>>16655392

(Please read from the start)

“Mesa Verdeans supplemented their diet by gathering the seeds and fruits of wild plants, searching large expanses of land while procuring these resources. Depending on the season, they collected piñon nuts and juniper berries, weedy goosefoot, pigweed, purslane, tomatillo, tansy mustard, globe mallow, sunflower seeds, and yucca, as well as various species of grass and cacti. Prickly pear fruits provided a rare source of natural sugar. Wild seeds were cooked and ground up into porridge. They used sagebrush and mountain mahogany, along with piñon and juniper, for firewood. They also smoked wild tobacco. Because the Ancestral Puebloans considered all material consumed and discarded by their communities as sacred, their midden piles were viewed with reverence. Starting during the Basketmaker III period, c. 700, Mesa Verdeans often buried their dead in these mounds.

Pottery

Scholars are divided as to whether pottery was invented in the Four Corners region or introduced from the south. Specimens of shallow, unfired clay bowls found at Canyon de Chelly indicate the innovation might have been derived from using clay bowls to parch seeds. Repeated uses rendered these bowls hard and impervious to water, which might represent the first fired pottery in the region. An alternate theory suggests that pottery originated in the Mogollon Rim area to the south, where brown-paste bowls were used during the first few centuries of the common era. Others believe pottery was introduced to Mesa Verde from Mexico, c. 300 CE. There is no evidence of ancient pottery markets in the region, but archaeologists believe that local potters exchanged decorative wares between families. Cooking pots made with crushed igneous rock tempers from places like Ute Mountain were more resilient and desirable, and Puebloans from throughout the region traded for them.”

>> So pottery was not native to Mesa Verde; this means it could have been “introduced” in via migration = as in a knowledge brought in by migrants.

“Neutron activation analysis indicates that much of the black-on-white pottery found at Mesa Verde was produced locally. Cretaceous clays from both the Dakota and Menefee Formations were used in black-on-white wares, and Mancos Formation clays for corrugated jars. Evidence that pottery of both types moved between several locations around the region suggests interaction between groups of ancient potters, or they might have shared a common source of raw materials. The Mesa Verde black-on-white pottery was produced at three locations: Sand Canyon, Castle Rock, and Mesa Verde. Archeological evidence indicates that nearly every household had at least one member who worked as a potter. Trench kilns were constructed away from pueblos and closer to sources of firewood. Their sizes vary, but the larger ones were up to 24 feet (7.3 m) long and thought to have been shared kilns that served several families. Designs were added to ceramic vessels with a Yucca-leaf brush and paints made from iron, manganese, beeplant, and tansy mustard.

Most of the pottery found in 9th century pueblos was sized for individuals or small families, but as communal ceremonialism expanded during the 13th century, many larger, feast–sized vessels were produced. Corrugated decorations appear on Mesa Verde grey wares after 700, and by 1000 entire vessels were crafted in this way. The technique created a rough exterior surface that was easier to hold on to than regular gray wares, which were smooth. By the 11th century these corrugated vessels, which dissipated heat more efficiently than smoother ones, had largely replaced the older style, whose tendency to retain heat made them prone to boiling over. Corrugation likely developed as ancient potters attempted to mimic the visual properties of coiled basketry. Corrugated wares were made using clay from formations other than Menefee, which suggests that ancient potters selected different clays for different styles. Potters also selected clays and altered firing conditions to achieve specific colors. Under normal conditions, pots made of Mancos shale turned grey when fired, and those made of Morrison Formation clay turned white. Clays from southeastern Utah turned red when fired in a high-oxygen environment.”

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>>16655394

(Please read from the start)

“Rock art and murals

Rock art is found throughout the Mesa Verde region, but its dispersion is uneven and periodic. Some locations have numerous examples; others have none, and some periods saw prolific creation, while others saw little. Styles also vary over time. Examples are relatively rare on Mesa Verde proper, but abundant in the middle San Juan River area, which might indicate the river's importance as a travel route and key source of water. Common motifs in the rock art of the region include anthropomorphic figures in procession and during copulation or childbirth, handprints, animal and people tracks, wavy lines, spirals, concentric circles, animals, and hunting scenes. As the region's population plummeted during the late 13th century, the subject of Mesa Verdean rock art increasingly shifted to depictions of shields, warriors, and battle scenes. Modern Hopi have interpreted the petroglyphs at Mesa Verde's Petroglyph Point as depictions of various clans of people.”

>> The local authorities should hire professionals to photograph/document, take measurements and make drawings = gather data about all the petroglyphs and pin point their locations on map. After that, they all should be cataloged. When that is done, they can be studied better and easier = makes the “deciphering” easier on us. It’s also a way to preserve the knowledge and the “artifacts”, mostly preserve them against TIME.

“Starting during the late Pueblo II period (1020) and continuing through Pueblo III (1300), the Ancestral Puebloans of the Mesa Verde region created plaster murals in their great houses, particularly in their kivas. The murals contained both painted and inscribed images depicting animals, people, and designs used in textiles and pottery dating back as far as Basketmaker III, c. 500. Others depict triangles and mounds thought to represent mountains and hills in the surrounding landscape. The murals were typically located on the face of the kiva bench and usually encircled the room. Geometric patterns that resemble symbols used in pottery and zigzag that represent stitches used in basket making are common motifs. The painted murals include the colors red, green, yellow, white, brown, and blue. The designs were still in use by the Hopi during the 15th and 16th centuries.

Climate

According to the Köppen climate classification system, Mesa Verde National Park has a dry-summer humid continental climate (Dsa). According to the United States Department of Agriculture, the Plant Hardiness zone at Mesa Verde National Park Headquarters at 6952 ft (2119 m) elevation is 6b with an average annual extreme minimum temperature of −0.1 °F (−17.8 °C).

The region's precipitation pattern is bimodal, meaning agriculture is sustained through snowfall during winter and autumn and rainfall during spring and summer. Water for farming and consumption was provided by summer rains, winter snowfall, and seeps and springs in and near the Mesa Verde villages. At 7,000 feet (2,100 m), the middle mesa areas were typically ten degrees Fahrenheit (5.5 °C) cooler than the mesa top, which reduced the amount of water needed for farming. The cliff dwellings were built to take advantage of solar energy. The angle of the sun in winter warmed the masonry of the cliff dwellings, warm breezes blew from the valley, and the air was ten to twenty degrees warmer in the canyon alcoves than on the top of the mesa. In the summer, with the sun high overhead, much of the village was protected from direct sunlight in the high cliff dwellings.”

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>>16655396

(Please read from the start)

“Anthropogenic ecology and geography

[…]

Mesa Verde's canyons were created by streams that eroded the hard sandstone that covers the area. This resulted in Mesa Verde National Park elevations ranging from about 6,000 to 8,572 feet (1,829 to 2,613 m), the highest elevation at Park Point. The terrain in the park is now a transition zone between the low desert plateaus and the Rocky Mountains.

Geology

Although the area's first Spanish explorers named the feature Mesa Verde, the term is a misnomer, as true mesas are almost perfectly flat. Because Mesa Verde is slanted to the south, the proper geological term is cuesta, not mesa. The park is made up of several smaller cuestas located between canyons. Mesa Verde's slant contributed to the formation of the alcoves that have preserved the area's cliff dwellings.

In the late Cretaceous Period, the Mancos Shale was deposited on top of the Dakota Sandstone, which is the rock formation that can be found under much of Colorado. The beds of the Mancos Shale are "fine-grained sand-stones, mudstones, and shales" which accumulated in the deep water of the Cretaceous Sea. It has a high clay content which causes it to expand when wet leading to sliding of the terrain. On top of this shale, there are three formations in the Mesaverde group which reflect the changes in depositional environment in the area over time. The first is the Point Lookout Sandstone, which is named for the Point Lookout feature in the park (elevation 8427 feet). This sandstone, which formed in the marine environment of shallow water when the Cretaceous sea was receding, is "massive, fine-grained, cross-bedded, and very resistant", in its layers reflecting waves and currents that were present during the time of its formation. Its sediments are approximately 400 feet thick, and its upper layers feature fossiliferous invertebrates.

Next is the Menefee Formation, the middle formation whose content features interbedded carbonaceous shales, siltstones, and sandstones. These were deposited in semi-marine environments of brackish water, such as swamps and lagoons. Due to its depositional environment and the organic material in its composition, there are thin coal seams running through the Menefee Formation. At the top, this formation is intruded upon by the Cliff House Sandstone.

The Cliff House Sandstone is the area's youngest rock layer. It was formed after the Cretaceous sea had completely receded and as a result has a high sand content from beaches, dunes, etc. and from this receives its characteristic yellow tint to its canyon faces. Like the Point Lookout Sandstone, it is about 400 feet thick. It contains numerous fossil beds of different types of shells, fish teeth, and other invertebrate leftovers from the receded sea. The shale zones in this feature determine where alcoves formed where the Ancestral Puebloans constructed their dwellings.

Continuing through the Cretaceous period and into the early Tertiary, there was uplifting in the area of the Colorado Plateau, the San Juan Mountains, and the La Plata Mountains, which led to the formation of the Mesa Verde pediment with the help of erosion. Small channels of water ran across this formation depositing gravel. Later in the tertiary, the last period of uplift and rock tilting towards the south caused these streams to cut rapidly into the rock removing loose sediment and forming the vast canyons seen today. This caused the isolation of the Mesa Verde pediment from surrounding rock. Today, since the climate is more arid, these erosional processes are slowed.”

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>>16655397

(Please read from the start)

“Rediscovery

Mexican-Spanish missionaries and explorers Francisco Atanasio Domínguez and Silvestre Vélez de Escalante, seeking a route from Santa Fe to California, faithfully recorded their travels in 1776. They reached Mesa Verde (green plateau) region, which they named after its high, tree-covered plateaus, but they never got close enough, or into the needed angle, to see the ancient stone villages. They were the first Europeans to travel the route through much of the Colorado Plateau into Utah and back through Arizona to New Mexico.

The Mesa Verde region has long been occupied by the Utes, and an 1868 treaty between them and the United States government recognized Ute ownership of all Colorado land west of the Continental Divide. After there had become an interest in land in western Colorado, a new treaty in 1873 left the Ute with a strip of land in southwestern Colorado between the border with New Mexico and 15 miles north. Most of Mesa Verde lies within this strip of land. The Ute wintered in the warm, deep canyons and found sanctuary there and the high plateaus of Mesa Verde. Believing the cliff dwellings to be sacred ancestral sites, they did not live in the ancient dwellings.

Occasional trappers and prospectors visited, with one prospector, John Moss, making his observations known in 1873. The following year, Moss led eminent photographer William Henry Jackson through Mancos Canyon, at the base of Mesa Verde. There, Jackson both photographed and publicized a typical stone cliff dwelling. Geologist William H. Holmes retraced Jackson's route in 1875. Reports by both Jackson and Holmes were included in the 1876 report of the Hayden Survey, one of the four federally financed efforts to explore the American West. These and other publications led to proposals to systematically study Southwestern archaeological sites.

In her quest to find Ancestral Puebloan settlements, Virginia McClurg, a journalist for the New York Daily Graphic, visited Mesa Verde in 1882 and 1885. Her party rediscovered Echo Cliff House, Three Tier House, and Balcony House in 1885; these discoveries inspired her to protect the dwellings and artifacts.

Wetherills

A family of cattle ranchers, the Wetherills, befriended members of the Ute tribe near their ranch southwest of Mancos, Colorado. With the Ute tribe's approval, the Wetherills were allowed to bring cattle into the lower, warmer plateaus of the present Ute reservation during winter. Word of the Ancestral Puebloan great houses had spread, and Acowitz, a member of the Ute tribe, told the Wetherills of a special cliff dwelling in Mesa Verde: "Deep in that canyon and near its head are many houses of the old people – the Ancient Ones. One of those houses, high, high in the rocks, is bigger than all the others. Utes never go there, it is a sacred place." On December 18, 1888, Richard Wetherill and cowboy Charlie Mason rediscovered Cliff Palace after spotting the ruins from the top of Mesa Verde. Wetherill gave the ruin its present-day name. Richard Wetherill, family and friends explored the ruins and gathered artifacts, some of which they sold to the Historical Society of Colorado and much of which they kept. Among the people who stayed with the Wetherills and explored the cliff dwellings was mountaineer, photographer, and author Frederick H. Chapin, who visited the region during 1889 and 1890. He described the landscape and ruins in an 1890 article and later in an 1892 book, The Land of the Cliff-Dwellers, which he illustrated with hand-drawn maps and personal photographs.”

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>>16655398

(Please read from the start)

“Gustaf Nordenskiöld

The Wetherills also hosted Gustaf Nordenskiöld, the son of polar explorer Adolf Erik Nordenskiöld, in 1891. Nordenskiöld was a trained mineralogist who introduced scientific methods to artifact collection, recorded locations, photographed extensively, diagrammed sites, and correlated what he observed with existing archaeological literature as well as the home-grown expertise of the Wetherills. He removed a lot of artifacts and sent them to Sweden, where they eventually went to the National Museum of Finland. Nordenskiöld published, in 1893, The Cliff Dwellers of the Mesa Verde. When Nordenskiöld shipped the collection that he made of Mesa Verde artifacts, the event initiated concerns about the need to protect Mesa Verde land and its resources.”

>> All the “removed” artifacts should be returned to their original owner.

“National Park

In 1889, Goodman Point Pueblo became the first pre-Columbian archaeological site in the Mesa Verde region to gain federal protection. It was the first such site to be protected in the US. Virginia McClurg was diligent in her efforts between 1887 and 1906 to inform the United States and European community of the importance of protecting the important historical material and dwellings in Mesa Verde. Her efforts included enlisting support from 250,000 women through the Federation of Women's Clubs, writing and having published poems in popular magazines, giving speeches domestically and internationally, and forming the Colorado Cliff Dwellers Association. The Colorado Cliff Dwellers' purpose was to protect the resources of Colorado cliff dwellings, reclaiming as much of the original artifacts as possible and sharing information about the people who dwelt there. A fellow activist for protection of Mesa Verde and prehistoric archaeological sites included Lucy Peabody, who, located in Washington, D.C., met with members of Congress to further the cause. Former Mesa Verde National Park superintendent Robert Heyder communicated his belief that the park might have been far more significant with the hundreds of artifacts taken by Nordenskiöld.”

>> Why wasn’t the same protection provided to the Cahokia mounds? Was it because they were from the ThunderBirds? Is Mesa Verde protected because it used to be a site under the jurisdiction of the Horned Serpent Clan? I’m saying it once again, everything taken from the site, the artifacts, should be returned to their true and original owner.

“By the end of the 19th century, it was clear that Mesa Verde needed protection from people in general who came to Mesa Verde and created or sold their own collection of artifacts. In a report to the Secretary of the Interior, Smithsonian Institution Ethnologist Jesse Walter Fewkes described vandalism at Mesa Verde's Cliff Palace:

Parties of "curio seekers" camped on the ruin for several winters, and it is reported that many hundred specimens there have been carried down the mesa and sold to private individuals. Some of these objects are now in museums, but many are forever lost to science. In order to secure this valuable archaeological material, walls were broken down … often simply to let light into the darker rooms; floors were invariably opened and buried kivas mutilated. To facilitate this work and get rid of the dust, great openings were broken through the five walls which form the front of the ruin. Beams were used for firewood to so great an extent that not a single roof now remains. This work of destruction, added to that resulting from erosion due to rain, left Cliff Palace in a sad condition.”

>> Wanna have a guess whom those “private individuals” are? Whom controls the smuggling? Whom controls the artifacts black market? The brainless people whom plunder the sites for a few pennies in return always cause a great deal of destruction, mostly destroying data that should have been collected on the site – once lost, it can never be recovered. Don’t be part of these brainless fools wherever you go in your life; always respect the site you are walking into and always make sure you are preserving it.

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>>16655400

(Please read from the start)

“Many artifacts from Mesa Verde are now located in museums and private collections in the US and across the world. A representative selection of pottery vessels and other objects, for example, is now in the British Museum in London. In 1906, President Theodore Roosevelt approved creation of the Mesa Verde National Park and the Federal Antiquities Act of 1906. The park was an effort to "preserve the works of man" and was the first park created to protect a location of cultural significance. The park was named with the Spanish term for green table because of its forests of juniper and piñon trees.”

>> Gosh! I wonder how the artifacts landed in big museums and in private collections? Also how long did it take for the Cahokia mounds to be put under “protection”?

“In 1976, 8,500 acres (3,440 ha) was designated a wilderness area. These three small and separate sections of the National Park are located on the steep north and east boundaries and serve as buffers to further protect the significant Native American sites. Unlike most wilderness areas, visitor access to Mesa Verde Wilderness is prohibited, along with the rest of the park's backcountry.”

Excavation and protection

Between 1908 and 1922, Spruce Tree House, Cliff Palace, and Sun Temple ruins were stabilised. Most of the early efforts were led by Jesse Walter Fewkes. During the 1930s and 40s, Civilian Conservation Corps workers, starting in 1932, played key roles in excavation efforts, building trails and roads, creating museum exhibits and constructing buildings at Mesa Verde. From 1958 to 1965, Wetherill Mesa Archaeological Project included archaeological excavations, stabilization of sites, and surveys. With excavation and study of eleven Wetherill Mesa sites, it is considered the largest archaeological effort in the US. The project oversaw the excavation of Long House and Mug House.

In 1966, as with all historical areas administered by the National Park Service, Mesa Verde was listed on the National Register of Historic Places, and in 1987, the Mesa Verde Administrative District was listed on the register.It was designated a World Heritage Site in 1978. In its 2015 travel awards, Sunset magazine named Mesa Verde National Park "the best cultural attraction" in the Western United States.”

>> I’m rolling my eyes after reading this. If this was a ThunderBirds site, would it have gotten this much attention and care?

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>>16655404

(Please read from the start)

“Conflicts with local tribes

Clashes between non-Indigenous environmentalists and local tribes surrounding the ruins at Mesa Verde began even before the park's official establishment. Conflicts over who laid claim to the land surrounding the ruins came to fruition in 1911, when the US government wanted to secure more land for the park that was owned by the Ute Indians. The Utes were reluctant to agree to the land swap proposed by the government, noting that the land they were seeking was the best land the tribe owned. Frederick Abbott, working with Indian Office official James McLaughlin, proclaimed to be an ally to the Ute in negotiations. Abbott later claimed that the "government was stronger than the Utes," saying that when the government finds "old ruins on land that it wants to take for public purposes, it has the right to take it …" Feeling they were left with no other options, the Utes reluctantly agreed to trade the 10,000 acres on Chapin Mesa for 19,500 acres on Ute Mountain.”

>> Do I need to say that this situation should be “fixed”? You gotta do what is right.

“The Utes continued to battle the Bureau of Indian Affairs to prevent more Ute land from being incorporated into the park. In 1935, the BIA attempted to gain back some the land traded in 1911. Additionally, superintendent Jesse L. Nusbaum later confessed that the Ute Mountain land traded for Chapin Mesa in 1911 belonged to the tribe anyway, meaning the government had traded land that never belonged to them in the first place.”

>> I hope the Utes will have their lands and rights back. Such dirty tricks are disgusting to read.

Tourism can be a great source of income for the Utes if managed properly without damaging the site. If this is run properly, without any “dirty tricks” from any side and mostly without any greed, this could be a source of income for the Utes people as well as a reason for them to stay in their land of origins, prosper as a community and it’s a reason for the young Utes to remain in their ancestral land without abandoning it for the city. I’m saying again = IF this is managed well, it could help big time the Utes…. If this is done for each and every single Native American Nation, then they would prosper while preserving their precious, irreplaceable past and traditions.

“Other issues unrelated to land disputes emerged as a result of park activities. In the 1920s, the park began offering "Indian ceremony" performances that gained popularity among visiting tourists; however, the ceremonies did not actually reflect the rites of the Ancient Puebloans who lived in the cliff dwellings nor the rites of the modern Ute. Navajo day laborers performed these rituals, resulting in "the wrong Indians doing the wrong dance on … the wrong land." In addition to the inaccuracy of the ceremonies, a question of whether Navajo dancers were paid fairly also resulted in questions regarding the lack of local American Indians being employed in other capacities in the park. Additionally, the park offered little financial benefits to the Ute Mountain Ute despite their land swap making much of the park possible.”

>> Touristic attractions are an important source of revenue, but it shouldn’t be done this way. Also, hotels, restaurants, craft shops, gift shops can be open which will boost the economy of the Utes. It must be authentic and run by them. But also rules must be put in place to regulate things in order not to damage the site and in the same not commercialize the culture. We should respect the culture while maximizing it to preserve it and to help the Native American community prosper. Too much of anything is bad. Balance and wisdom are required here. If there is a good will from all sides, this can be done, not just for the Utes but for all the Native American Nations. Their prosperity and wellbeing is a part of the prosperity and wellbeing of the States since they are a part of it.

• Page 2 361 –

>>16655418

(Please read from the start)

“Services

The entrance to Mesa Verde National Park is on U.S. Route 160, approximately 9 miles (14 km) east of the community of Cortez and 7 miles (11 km) west of Mancos, Colorado. The park covers 52,485 acres (21,240 ha). It contains 4,372 documented sites, including more than 600 cliff dwellings. It is the largest archaeological preserve in the US. It protects some of the most important and best-preserved archaeological sites in the country. The park initiated the Archaeological Site Conservation Program in 1995. It analyses data pertaining to how sites are constructed and utilized.

The Mesa Verde Visitor and Research Center is located just off of Highway 160 and is before the park entrance booths. The Visitor and Research Center opened in December 2012. Chapin Mesa (the most popular area) is 20 miles (32 km) beyond the visitor center. Mesa Verde National Park is an area of federal exclusive jurisdiction. Because of this all law enforcement, emergency medical service, and wildland/structural fire duties are conducted by federal National Park Service Law Enforcement Rangers. The Mesa Verde National Park Post Office has the ZIP code 81330. Access to park facilities vary by season. Three of the cliff dwellings on Chapin Mesa are open to the public. The Chapin Mesa Museum is open all year. Spruce Tree House is also open all year, weather permitting. Balcony House, Long House and Cliff Palace require tour tickets for ranger-guided tours. Many other dwellings are visible from the road but not open to tourists. The park offers hiking trails, a campground, and, during peak season, facilities for food, fuel, and lodging; these are unavailable in the winter.

The park's early administrative buildings, located on Chapin Mesa, form an architecturally significant complex of buildings. Built in the 1920s, the Mesa Verde administrative complex was one of the first examples of the Park Service using culturally appropriate design in the development of park facilities. The area was designated a National Historic Landmark District in 1987.”

>> Tourism is also work = jobs.

“Wildfires and culturally modified trees

During the years 1996 to 2003, the park suffered from several wildfires. The fires, many of which were started by lightning during times of drought, burned 28,340 acres (11,470 ha) of forest, more than half the park. The fires also damaged many archaeological sites and park buildings. They were named: Chapin V (1996), Bircher and Pony (2000), Long Mesa (2002), and the Balcony House Complex fires (2003), which were five fires that began on the same day. The Chapin V and Pony fires destroyed two rock art sites, and the Long Mesa fire nearly destroyed the museum – the first one ever built in the National Park System – and Spruce Tree House, the third largest cliff dwelling in the park.

Prior to the fires of 1996 to 2003, archaeologists had surveyed approximately ninety percent of the park. Dense undergrowth and tree cover kept many ancient sites hidden from view, but after the Chapin V, Bircher and Pony fires, 593 previously undiscovered sites were revealed – most of them date to the Basketmaker III and Pueblo I periods. Also uncovered during the fires were extensive water containment features, including 1,189 check dams, 344 terraces, and five reservoirs that date to the Pueblo II and III periods. In February 2008, the Colorado Historical Society decided to invest a part of its $7 million budget into a culturally modified trees project in the national park.”

>> Are these fires for real or are they arson? I mean if this was just a work of “nature” or if it was man made with an agenda behind it. These fires were terribly convenient weren’t they?

• Page 2 362 –

>>16655424

(Please read from the start)

“Ute Mountain Tribal Park

The Ute Mountain Tribal Park, adjoining Mesa Verde National Park to the east of the mountains, is approximately 125,000 acres (51,000 ha) along the Mancos River. Hundreds of surface sites, cliff dwellings, petroglyphs, and wall paintings of Ancestral Puebloan and Ute cultures are preserved in the park. Native American Ute tour guides provide background information about the people, culture, and history of the park lands. National Geographic Traveler chose it as one of "80 World Destinations for Travel in the 21st Century", one of only nine places selected in the US.

“Key sites

In addition to the cliff dwellings, Mesa Verde boasts a number of mesa-top ruins. Examples open to public access include the Far View Complex and Cedar Tree Tower on Chapin Mesa, and Badger House Community, on Wetherill Mesa.”

>> These will make a nice little list for what to see and visit for people whom like to go site seeing. Pictures are in previous pages.

“Balcony House

Balcony House is set on a high ledge facing east. Its 45 rooms and 2 kivas would have been cold during the winter. Visitors on ranger-guided tours enter by climbing a 32-foot ladder and a crawling through a small 12-foot tunnel. The exit, a series of toe-holds in a cleft of the cliff, was believed to be the only entry and exit route for the cliff dwellers, which made the small village easy to defend and secure. One log was dated at 1278, so it was likely built not long before the Mesa Verde people migrated out of the area. It was officially excavated in 1910 by Jesse L. Nusbaum, who was the first National Park Service Archeologist and one of the first Superintendents of Mesa Verde National Park. Visitors can only enter Balcony House through a ranger-guided tour, which involves numerous ladders up the cliff face and crawling through a small tunnel.

Cliff Palace

This multi-storied ruin, the best-known cliff dwelling in Mesa Verde, is located in the largest alcove in the center of the Great Mesa. It was south- and southwest-facing, providing greater warmth from the sun in the winter. Dating back more than 700 years, the dwelling is constructed of sandstone, wooden beams, and mortar. Many of the rooms were brightly painted. Cliff Palace was home to approximately 125 people, but was likely an important part of a larger community of sixty nearby pueblos, which housed a combined six hundred or more people. With 23 kivas and 150 rooms, Cliff Palace is the largest cliff dwelling in Mesa Verde National Park.

Long House

Located on the Wetherill Mesa, Long House is the second-largest Mesa Verdean village; approximately 150 people lived there. The location was excavated from 1959 through 1961, as part of the Wetherhill Mesa Archaeological Project. Long House was built c. 1200; it was occupied until 1280. The cliff dwelling features 150 rooms, a kiva, a tower, and a central plaza. Its rooms are not clustered like typical cliff dwellings. Stones were used without shaping for fit and stability. Two overhead ledges contain storage space for grain. One ledge seems to include an overlook with small holes in the wall to see the rest of the village below. A spring is accessible within several hundred feet, and seeps are located in the rear of the village.”

• Page 2 363 –

>>16655426

(Please read from the start)

“Mug, Oak Tree, Spruce Tree, and Square Tower houses

Mug House is located on Wetherill Mesa; it contains 94 rooms, a large kiva, and a nearby reservoir. It received its name from four mugs the Charles Mason and the Wetherill brothers found strung together at the site. Oak Tree House and neighboring Fire Temple can be visited via a 2-hour ranger-guided hike. Spruce Tree House is the third-largest village, within several hundred feet of a spring, and had 130 rooms and eight kivas. It was constructed sometime between 1211 and 1278. It is believed anywhere from 60 to 80 people lived there at one time. Because of its protective location, it is well preserved. The short trail to Spruce Tree House begins at the Chapin Mesa Archeological Museum. The Square Tower House is one of the stops on the Mesa Top Loop Road driving tour. The tower is the tallest structure in Mesa Verde.”

>> While looking around for some pictures of the petroglyphs of Mesa Verde, I also stumbled upon others = petroglyphs and/or murals which are located in a place called the Barrier Canyon, in Utah. I’m totally disoriented about this place since I’m not familiar with it at all; so if I made mistakes on the location or the name, please correct me. I’m going to take a small detour and talk about the murals/petroglyphs in Barrier Canyon because something caught my attention there because it confirms = it’s visual, tangible proof of what I’ve been telling you. I’ve got 3 petroglyph “scenes” to show anons.

The first petroglyph scene: It’s very clear here, we have an Antelope warrior, standing upright, with both of his hands extended in front of him. Look carefully at his head, what you see on top are the antlers of a gazelle or a deer = Antelope. He is wearing a helmet and I must admit, it looks “funny”, a lot like E.T. from the movie; or the robot from the movie called Short Circuit. I bet the inspiration for both movies came from this petroglyph. The rectangle shape of the head is very unusual, but don’t forget this is how the painter saw it; it doesn’t necessarily mean this is how it was exactly. I see it more close to the helmet worn by Black Manta in the movie Aquaman.

This warrior has some very interesting hands. It’s very clear here that he’s got claws like a Feline does, which makes his hands those of a Feline warrior. If you think this is outstretched from the old man, then let me remind you of the movie Black Panther and what he wears = mostly his gloves. The long sharp claws of the Feline warrior armor can be excellent in close combat, used as blades. He’s got 5 fingers and the thumb is shorter and adjacent to the rest of the 4 fingers, just like how a human hand is. Such details are leading me to think of the Black Panther type of gauntlets = with blade like claws for close combat.

But this is not the only notable on his hands. Look at the palm of the hands = these are the blasters from the Serpent Clan warrior’s armors = just like what Iron Man has. And they are incredibly identical to the eyes; which is making me believe that the eyes are those of a ThunderBird eye blasters – just like Superman – I’ve explained all of these before. If you think what he’s got on his palms are not the blasters, then you are missing 2 details in this scene:

1 – His outstretched hands, just like how Iron Man does when he is about to shoot.

2 – The 4 discs with wings depicted in a line above the animal = these are what is coming out of the hand blasters. They were represented in a disc form or circular form because they might be fireballs. The wings can be explained as the trail of the fireball or simply to indicate that they are flying like a bird….come to think of it, maybe both interpretations mixed together.

• Page 2 364 –

>>16655443

(Please read from the start)

So you see dear reader, these are blasters shooting at that animal. In other words, this is a hunting scene. When you combine all the elements, you will see that this is a Multi-morph warrior, with the helmet of the Antelope, the eyes of the ThunderBirds, the claws of the Feline and the blasters of the Serpent Clan…and this multi-morph warrior is hunting an animal.

The second petroglyph which caught my attention is also of a Horned Serpent warrior. He’s got Antlers from the Antelope Clan. There seem to be small birds flying around the Antlers, but I’m not sure, nor do I understand what this is about if these were truly birds. But look what he’s got on his chest? Do you remember it? We saw this before in this thread on another artifact = it’s a statuette of Pazuzu (page 948) where he had 2 blasters on his chest. I’ve talked about this before and I said this reminds me not just of Iron Man, but also of Havoc from X-Men.

In his right hand, this obviously tall warrior, is holding a Serpent. But we know this is not a real Serpent = not the animal. We’ve seen this before in this thread = this is a staff weapon he is holding in his left hand. And he is holding it high = lifted up. Remember my comment about Moses’ staff and how he had to keep his arms up for the Israelites to win the battle against the Amalekites (page 2 101)? And look at all of these nice fire blasts in front of him and on the right side of his head. See how the trail of fire is depicted? Look also at this right arm, how it’s depicted = it’s oriented downward, in a relaxed position. See the difference between the arms = the one holding the staff is stretched horizontally, and the one not holding the staff is in a relaxed position.

In the last petroglyphs, we can see multiple warriors, most have horns. Their helmets are more like a lightbulb with big eyes. These are not aliens anons. These are Atlantean warriors, most probably from the Antelope Clan. One of them is flanked by 2 serpents standing upwards; these are not animals, these are staff weapons…and they are shooting something = look at the hoops right above the serpent’s heads = fireballs.

Even if I’m a greenhorn in the history of the Native American, I can still recognize and interpret correctly artifacts and in this case the petroglyphs from Barrier Canyon, because I know what to look for. Anons can do the same: you don’t need to be an expert in the history of a place, a culture or a civilization to be able to recognize the Sebetti Clans and their warriors. The symbolism is almost the same all over the planet. I must admit though, sometimes, it’s confusing since it could be so intertwined. But all in all, it can be done.

• Page 2 365 –

>>16655447

(Please read from the start)

When we take a look at the mythology from the Hopi not all of it is related/comes from the Horned Serpent Clan, but some comes from the Light clans as well. It’s a mixture but with a good dosage from the Horned Serpent Clan in it. One of the influences of the Light in Hopi mythology is the goddess Iayatiku: https://journeyingtothegoddess.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/goddess-iyatiku/

“Iyatiku’s themes are Earth, the harvest, providence, health and weather. Her symbols are corn, beans, seeds and soil. Iyatiku is the Pueblo corn and underworld Goddess who protects not only future crops but the future in general by safeguarding children. During the early months of the year, Iyatiku extends arms of compassion to embrace us with nurturing support, just as the earth nurtures seeds.”

>> From the get go it is very clear she is from the Light because she protects children.

“If you have a garden, today is an excellent time to dance on the land and invoke Iyatiku’s blessings on your crops or flowers. The Pueblo and Hopi Indians have spirit dancers waltz around the land to instill the crops with energy through sacred movements.

The Hopi also plant beans on top of underground ritual rooms called kivas, which house Iyatiku’s nurturing energy. When children go into kivas for rites of passage, they emerge as adults thanks to the Goddess’s care and guidance within.

Using this symbolism to foster maturity or any other of Iyatiku’s attributes today, go today to some place close to the earth, taking a bean with you. Plant the bean, then sit on top of the ground covered with a blanket (a mock cave/ womb/ kiva). Meditate here, focusing on the bean, the rich earth below you and the earth’s generative energy. Allow Iyatiku to meet you in this sacred space and begin manifesting what you most need.”

(Patricia Telesco, “365 Goddess: a daily guide to the magic and inspiration of the goddess”.)

Iyatiku is the corn Goddess of the Keresan Puebloes. From shipap, Her underground realm, mankind first ermerged, from there infants today are born and tither go the dead. To provide food for them, She plants bits of her heart in fields to the north, west, south, and east. Later the pieces of Iyatiku’s heart grow into fields of corn. The Cochiti Puebloes regard Mesewi as the hero who had led the ancestors of the tribe out of shipap."

>>As I said before, it’s clear that the dominant “influence” is that of the Horned Serpent Clan, but as you can see, there is influence from the Light clans as well. This might be because of the many waves of migration and mixing we read about. A notable is that her realm was “an underground” from where mankind first emerged = this could be pointing very well to the Arks.

With this I would have finished with the Hopi and the Pueblos in general. I’m not going any deeper into this, I think it’s enough to give us a general idea. If I missed anything important or if there is something I’m not aware of, please bring it up so we can take a look at it in this thread.

• Page 2 366 –

>>16655449

(Please read from the start)

Next I want to take a look at the Kwakwakaʼwakw : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwakwakaʼwakw

“The Kwakwakaʼwakw (IPA: [ˈkʷakʷəkʲəʔwakʷ]), also known as the Kwakiutl (/ˈkwɑːkjʊtəl/; "Kwakʼwala-speaking peoples") are one of the indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast. Their current population, according to a 2016 census, is 3,665. Most live in their traditional territory on northern Vancouver Island, nearby smaller islands including the Discovery Islands, and the adjacent British Columbia mainland. Some also live outside their homelands in urban areas such as Victoria and Vancouver. They are politically organized into 13 band governments.

Their language, now spoken by only 3.1% of the population, consists of four dialects of what is commonly referred to as Kwakʼwala. These dialects are Kwakwala, ʼNakwala, Gucala and Tłatłasikwala.”

>> For some strange reason, the names are getting harder and harder on this old man. Since I’m unable to say that name correctly I’m going to use the short version proposed here as in Kwakiutl. It’s easier for an old dog like me.

“Name

The name Kwakiutl derives from Kwaguʼł—the name of a single community of Kwakwakaʼwakw located at Fort Rupert. The anthropologist Franz Boas had done most of his anthropological work in this area and popularized the term for both this nation and the collective as a whole. The term became misapplied to mean all the nations who spoke Kwakʼwala, as well as three other Indigenous peoples whose language is a part of the Wakashan linguistic group, but whose language is not Kwakʼwala. These peoples, incorrectly known as the Northern Kwakiutl, were the Haisla, Wuikinuxv, and Heiltsuk.

Many people who others call "Kwakiutl" consider that name a misnomer. They prefer the name Kwakwakaʼwakw, which means "Kwakʼwala-speaking-peoples". One exception is the Laich-kwil-tach at Campbell River—they are known as the Southern Kwakiutl, and their council is the Kwakiutl District Council.

History

Kwakwakaʼwakw oral history says their ancestors (ʼnaʼmima) came in the forms of animals by way of land, sea, or underground. When one of these ancestral animals arrived at a given spot, it discarded its animal appearance and became human. Animals that figure in these origin myths include the Thunderbird, his brother Kolas, the seagull, orca, grizzly bear, or chief ghost. Some ancestors have human origins and are said to come from distant places.”

>> We have details which correspond to what we already know here. The Kwakiutl ancestors came by way of sea = that’s the flood; underground = getting out from the Arks; by land = migrated after the flood water receded. The ancestors of the Kwakiutl had animal form which they dropped/let go off to take human appearance once they reached a specific destination. Some of the animals mentioned are or can be heraldic animals of Sebetti clans as we known them in this thread; but in the same time, I have no idea if some, like the grizzly bear, are heraldic signs of a vassal clan or are just from local fauna inspiration by younger generations.

• Page 2 367 –

>>16655455

(Please read from the start)

“Historically, the Kwakwakaʼwakw economy was based primarily on fishing, with the men also engaging in some hunting, and the women gathering wild fruits and berries. Ornate weaving and woodwork were important crafts, and wealth, defined by slaves and material goods, was prominently displayed and traded at potlatch ceremonies. These customs were the subject of extensive study by the anthropologist Franz Boas. In contrast to most non-native societies, wealth and status were not determined by how much you had, but by how much you had to give away. This act of giving away your wealth was one of the main acts in a potlatch.

“The first documented contact was with Captain George Vancouver in 1792. Disease, which developed as a result of direct contact with European settlers along the West Coast of Canada, drastically reduced the Indigenous Kwakwakaʼwakw population during the late 19th-early 20th century. Kwakwakaʼwakw population dropped by 75% between 1830 and 1880. The 1862 Pacific Northwest smallpox epidemic alone killed over half of the people.”

>> Yeah, this is done to all Natives from the “New World”. Sometimes, I feel like this is done on purpose to disseminate them. It reminds of the “convenient timing” of such “killer” illnesses to the Carthaginian army each time they were about to defeat the Romans. I keep on wondering since when (((they))) weaponized illnesses/viruses. I mean really when.

“Kwakwakaʼwakw dancers from Vancouver Island performed at the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition in Chicago.

An account of experiences of two founders of early residential schools for Aboriginal children was published in 2006 by the University of British Columbia Press. Good Intentions Gone Awry – Emma Crosby and the Methodist Mission On the Northwest Coast by Jan Hare and Jean Barman contains the letters and account of the life of the wife of Thomas Crosby the first missionary in Lax Kw'alaams (Port Simpson). This covers the period from 1870 to the turn of the 20th century.

A second book was published in 2005 by the University of Calgary Press, The Letters of Margaret Butcher – Missionary Imperialism on the North Pacific Coast edited by Mary-Ellen Kelm. It picks up the story from 1916 to 1919 in Kitamaat Village and details of Butcher's experiences among the Haisla people.

A review article entitled Mothers of a Native Hell about these two books was published in the British Columbia online news magazine The Tyee in 2007.

Restoring their ties to their land, culture and rights, the Kwakwakaʼwakw have undertaken much in bringing back their customs, beliefs and language. Potlatches occur more frequently as families reconnect to their birthright, and the community uses language programs, classes and social events to restore the language. Artists in the 19th and 20th centuries, such as Mungo Martin, Ellen Neel and Willie Seaweed have taken efforts to revive Kwakwakaʼwakw art and culture.

[…]”

>> We should all encourage them and support them into preserving their culture. It’s part of their identity. We should respect that. It’s a treasure that shouldn’t be lost.

• Page 2 368 –

>>16655460

(Please read from the start)

“Culture

The Kwakwakaʼwakw are a highly stratified bilineal culture of the Pacific Northwest. They are many separate nations, each with its own history, culture and governance. The Nations commonly each had a head chief, who acted as the leader of the nation, with numerous hereditary clan or family chiefs below him. In some of the nations, there also existed Eagle Chiefs, but this was a separate society within the main society and applied to the potlatching only.”

>> I’m not surprised to see them take names of Birds of Prey because they are descendants of ThunderBird Clan.

“The Kwakwakaʼwakw are one of the few bilineal cultures. Traditionally the rights of the family would be passed down through the paternal side, but in rare occasions, the rights could pass on the maternal side of their family also. Within the pre-colonization times, the Kwakwakaʼwakw were organized into three classes: nobles, commoners, and slaves. The Kwakwakaʼwakw shared many cultural and political alliances with numerous neighbours in the area, including the Nuu-chah-nulth, Heiltsuk, Wuikinuxv and some Coast Salish.

[…]

Ceremonies and events

Potlatch

The potlatch culture of the Northwest is well known and widely studied. It is still practised among the Kwakwakaʼwakw, as is the lavish artwork for which they and their neighbours are so renowned. The phenomenon of the potlatch, and the vibrant societies and cultures associated with it, can be found in Chiefly Feasts: The Enduring Kwakiutl Potlatch, which details the incredible artwork and legendary material that go with the other aspects of the potlatch, and gives a glimpse into the high politics and great wealth and power of the Kwakwakaʼwakw chiefs.

When the Canadian government was focused on assimilation of First Nations, it made the potlatch a target of activities to be suppressed. Missionary William Duncan wrote in 1875 that the potlatch was "by far the most formidable of all obstacles in the way of Indians becoming Christians, or even civilized".

In 1885, the Indian Act was revised to include clauses banning the potlatch and making it illegal to practise. The official legislation read,

Every Indian or other person who engages in or assists in celebrating the Indian festival known as the "Potlatch" or the Indian dance known as the "Tamanawas" is guilty of a misdemeanour, and shall be liable to imprisonment for a term not more than six nor less than two months in a jail or other place of confinement; and, any Indian or other person who encourages, either directly or indirectly an Indian or Indians to get up such a festival or dance, or to celebrate the same, or who shall assist in the celebration of same is guilty of a like offence, and shall be liable to the same punishment.”

• Page 2 369 –

>>16655462

(Please read from the start)

“Oʼwaxalagalis, Chief of the Kwaguʼł "Fort Rupert Tribes", said to anthropologist Franz Boas on October 7, 1886, when he arrived to study their culture:

We want to know whether you have come to stop our dances and feasts, as the missionaries and agents who live among our neighbors [sic] try to do. We do not want to have anyone here who will interfere with our customs. We were told that a man-of-war would come if we should continue to do as our grandfathers and great-grandfathers have done. But we do not mind such words. Is this the white man's land? We are told it is the Queen's land, but no! It is mine.

Where was the Queen when our God gave this land to my grandfather and told him, "This will be thine"? My father owned the land and was a mighty Chief; now it is mine. And when your man-of-war comes, let him destroy our houses. Do you see yon trees? Do you see yon woods? We shall cut them down and build new houses and live as our fathers did.

We will dance when our laws command us to dance, and we will feast when our hearts desire to feast. Do we ask the white man, "Do as the Indian does"? It is a strict law that bids us dance. It is a strict law that bids us distribute our property among our friends and neighbors. It is a good law. Let the white man observe his law; we shall observe ours. And now, if you come to forbid us dance, be gone. If not, you will be welcome to us.”

>> I will dance the day the British monarchy is stripped from the land they stole from the Natives; and this land is returned to its original owner. I keep on reading “strange” things online about the ownership of land in both Canada and Australia… I mean whom really owns things and not the people owning anything. It’s sickening, really sickening.

“Eventually the Act was amended, expanded to prohibit guests from participating in the potlatch ceremony. The Kwakwakaʼwakw were too numerous to police, and the government could not enforce the law. Duncan Campbell Scott convinced Parliament to change the offence from criminal to summary, which meant "the agents, as justice of the peace, could try a case, convict, and sentence".

Sustaining the customs and culture of their ancestors, in the 21st century the Kwakwakaʼwakw openly hold potlatches to commit to the revival of their ancestors' ways. The frequency of potlatches has increased as occur frequently and increasingly more over the years as families reclaim their birthright.”

>> I wonder why (((they))) went into such great length to forbid the potlach rituals

“Hamatsa rituals

Hamatsa is one of four secret societies. The Hamatsa initiation dance for young men has been called a "cannibal" ritual.

[…]”

>> This is rather interesting. This doesn’t mean the descendants of the ThunderBirds became/are cannibals. I think we should gather more information before making our minds about this specific issue. It’s so blurry and confusing here. I’m not going to go into this, but for those interested, please check things out deeply and carefully.

• Page 2 370 –

>>16655467

(Please read from the start)

Let’s take a look at the mythology of the Kwakiutl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwakwakaʼwakw_mythology

“This article is about the spiritual beliefs, histories and practices in Kwakwaka'wakw mythology. The Kwakwaka'wakw are a group of Indigenous nations, numbering about 5,500, who live in the central coast of British Columbia on northern Vancouver Island and the mainland. Kwakwaka'wakw translates into "Kwak'wala-speaking tribes." However, the tribes are single autonomous nations and do not view themselves collectively as one group.”

>> Being made of various groups can explain the cannibalism issue we encountered in the previous page. Maybe not all groups are descendants of ThunderBirds or some are mixed with Horned Serpents descendants. As I said before, for those interested, this needs deeper information and a better look at it, than the shallow information we are reading right now.

“These people share many common cultural customs with neighboring nations. They share beliefs in many of the same spirits and deities, although speak different languages. Some spirits are, however, totally unique to one or two cultures and are not universally known throughout the Northwest Coast. Each tribe has its own history, practices, and stories. Some origin stories belong to only one specific tribe, while another tribe has its own stories. But many practices, rituals, and ceremonies occur throughout Kwakwaka'wakw culture, and in some cases, neighboring indigenous cultures also.”

>> I hope all of these are preserved.

“Creation stories

The Kwakwaka'wakw creation narrative states the world was created by a raven flying over water, who, finding nowhere to land, decided to create islands by dropping small pebbles into the water. He then created trees and grass, and, after several failed attempts, he made the first man and woman out of wood and clay.

Flood

Like all Indigenous peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast, most of the Kwakwaka'wakw tribes have stories about their people surviving the flood. With some of these nations, their history talks of their ancestors transforming into their natural form and disappearing while the waters rose then subsided. For others, they have stories of their people attaching their oceangoing canoes to tall peaking mountains. For the stories about supernatural powers, these figures tend to be the founding clans of some Kwakwaka'wakw nations.”

>> The notables:

1 – “surviving the flood” = no need to explain.

2 – “ancestors transforming into their natural form” = turning to ThunderBirds and flying away.

3 – “the waters rose then subsided” = mentioned many times already.

4 – “attaching their oceangoing canoes to tall peaking mountains” = Arks landings on high peaks which are above 4000 m of altitude.

• Page 2 371 –

>>16655470

(Please read from the start)

“Ancestors, crests, and clans

Tseiqami is a man who comes from the cedar tree and Thunderbird, lord of the winter dance season, a massive supernatural bird whose wing beats cause the thunder, and the flash of whose eyes causes lightning. Tseiqami hunts whales for its dinner out at sea, and sometimes helped heroic ancestors build houses by placing giant cedar beams for them. Thunderbird has a younger brother named Kolus.”

>> I’m totally in love with this paragraph. We don’t understand why but the ThunderBirds are always connected to the Cedar Tree. We have a confirmation here that the eye of the ThunderBird’s helmets used to be blasters, but not throwing fire like what the Serpent Clan gauntlet does. The ThunderBird’s eyes throw electricity = they zap.

The minute I said that the ThunderBirds are connected to the Cedar tree, how many of you thought of Evergreen and of Killary? Which in your programmed mind means that this is linked to evil, then it means the ThunderBirds are evil. I see on social media a lot of you are still walking on the wrong path, and you twist and misunderstand a lot of the things I’m saying because you are unable to break free from the programing. A lot don’t understand how things are, yet. The Evil Clan STOLE a lot of symbols from the Light and pretended these symbols are (((their))) own and (((they))) are Satanist symbols. The best example I can give you is the symbol of the Cross = (((they))) stole it from the Christians, twisted it by turning it upside down and then (((they))) used it as a symbol of Satanism. (((They))) did the same to the purple color and what it symbolizes = (((they))) stole it and make it (((their))) symbol.

There are a lot of anons whom still understand things upside down. They are still unable to distinguish the good from the bad and the right from the wrong. Go research. Don’t be shallow. And things are not going to happen as YOU = the public (including the anons) want them to happen, think they are going to happen.

“Thunderbird's adversary is Qaniqilak, spirit of the summer season, who is often identified as the sea god, Kumugwe. Kumugwe or Komokwa is the name of "Undersea Chief." Many Kwakwaka'wakw families have been blessed by riches and supernatural treasures bestowed by this god of the tides and maker of coppers.”

>> I wonder if Qaniqilak is not a personification of the flood itself. The ThunderBirds always bring blessings of many types to their own family members. This got me thinking maybe there is some type of “treasure” under the water facing where the Kwakiutl Nations lived. When I say treasure I don’t mean gold or something of the kind. I mean it could be another Ark, or some type of Atlantean technology which is related to working with metals because when you read about Kumugwe you will notice he is some type of craftsman. And in the same time, he’s got characteristics of a Fish Man with his healing powers…and he even got Spider powers as in being able to see.

• Page 2 372 –

>>16655480

(Please read from the start)

Is this possible for one person to be a cocktail of so many clans and sub clans? I don’t think so. So how did we reach such a result? = from the looks of it, this is a mutation from the younger generation which mixed many people into ONE = making them one person. The divine power of the Light, either it’s healing or seeing is born with you, you cannot steal it or take it/copy it from someone else, and it cannot be taught. Back in the days, there was no blood mixing between the members of the different clans. The mixing occurred after the survivors got out of the Ark. Kumugwe is a flood survivor so he was a pure blood. This is why I said the younger generation mixed different person together, merged them to become one; because there is no way a pure blood like Kumugwe can have powers from other clans. I hope what I’m trying to explain is clear here. By the way, it’s also not the first time we see ThunderBirds connected to the work of metals, with copper when it comes to the Native Americans.

“Sisiutl is a giant three-headed sea serpent whose glance can turn an adversary into stone. Cross beams of clan houses sometimes are carved with his appearance. Blessed ancestors have sometimes received sisiutl's help when he transforms himself into an invincible war canoe, and sometimes into a magic belt with which to gird oneself against all dangers.”

>> We’ve already seen Sisiutl before. What is interesting here is that it’s making it clear that not all the tribes of the Kwakiutl are direct descendants of ThunderBirds, but some are descendants of the Evil Clan = it’s a mixture and this was mentioned before; as in they didn’t form one group.

“Dzunukwa (Tsonokwa) is a type of cannibal giant (called sasquatch by other Northwest Coast tribes) and comes in both male and female forms. In most legends, the female form is the most commonly told; she eats children and cries "hu-hu!" to attract them, she imitates the child's grandmother's voice. Children frequently outwit her, sometimes killing her and taking her treasures without being eaten.”

>> “Hu-hu” sounds like an owl, doesn’t it? Well, it’s obvious we are dealing with pedovores here as in Horned Serpent clan members. I like how they said they are giants because all the warriors from all the clans are almost double our current size as humans. The Sebetti rulers are giants too.

“Bakwas is king of the ghosts. He is a small green spirit whose face looks emaciated like a skeleton, but has a long curving nose. He haunts the forests and tries to bring the living over to the world of the dead. In some myths Bakwas is the husband of Dzunukwa.”

>> Sounds familiar doesn’t it? Because we’ve already encountered similar “beings” with other names before in this thread. No question about it here = Horned Serpent Clan. Ever since I’m seeing those “stars” and celebrities recently without their Adrenochrome “dosage” and how they look….you know….like the walking dead, the zombies….I keep on wondering if these “ghosts and skeletons” from the Native American mythology are not Horned Serpent Clan members suffering from Andrenochrome withdrawals as well. Just some thoughts there.

“U'melth is the Raven, who brought the Kwakwaka'wakw people the moon, fire, salmon, the sun and the tides.

Pugwis is a sort of aquatic creature with a fish-like face and large incisors.”

• Page 2 373 –

>>16655736

(Please read from the start)

“Ceremony

Kwakwaka'wakw spirituality is transmitted at ceremonies, mostly during the winter season. These ceremonies are often referred to as potlatches. They are mostly designed for the transference, justification, and reaffirmation of family and spiritual status inherited from primeval ancestors who contacted the spirit world and were given privileges from beings of a supernatural nature. These beings prefer honor, power, and magic through the gift of Tlugwe, which are supernatural treasures, often taking the physical form of masks and regalia, but also comprising stories, songs, recitations, dances, and other intangible performances.

Kwakwaka'wakw spirits, like those of other Northwest Coast peoples, can be divided into four separate spirit realms: sky spirits, sea spirits, earth spirits, and otherworldly spirits. All four realms interact with one another, and human beings attempt to contact all four worlds and often channel their spirits at sacred ceremonies wherein dancers go into trances while wearing masks and other regalia associated with the spiritworld.”

>> No wonder (((they))) wanted to stop the potlatches ceremonies because it means others than (((them))) can get in contact with the Spirit world, regardless if it’s the good side or the bad side; which apparently (((they))) didn’t like this, because (((they))) tried to put an end to it. (((They))) wanted the contact with the Spirit world to be exclusively (((theirs))) or should I say under (((their))) control. Greedy as always I see and obsessed with control as well.

“Of particular importance in Kwakwaka'wakw culture is the secret society called Hamatsa. During the winter, there is a four-day complex dance that serves to initiate new members of Hamatsa. The Hamatsa dancer represents the spirit of Baxbaxwalanuksiwe ("Man-Eater at the North End of the World"); who can transform into various man-eating birds and has mouths all over his body. Hamatsa initiates are possessed by Baxwbakwalanuksiwe'. On the first day of the Hamatsa ceremonies the initiate is lured out of the woods and brought into the Big House to be tamed. When the initiate returns, he enacts his cannibalistic possession symbolically. Gwaxwgwakwalanuksiwe' is the most prestigious role in the Supernatural Man-Eater Birds ceremony; he is a man-eating raven. Galuxwadzuwus ("Crooked-Beak of Heaven") and Huxhukw (supernatural Crane-Like Bird who cracks skulls of men to suck out their brains) are other participants.”

>> It’s obvious we are talking here about a Horned Serpent warrior whom has stolen the wings of the ThunderBirds.

With this I would have finished taking a general look and a specific look to some of the Native American Nations/tribes/cultures. There are so many of them, they are like all the colors of a rainbow, so it’s better to take a general view and visit closer a few of them since I’m not going that deep into it all and I’m not going into specifics. As the reader can see from what we’ve got from the Native Americans sections, there is a dominant culture/side in each Native American Nation and there is a minor side in it as well.

Like in some of the Nations we’ve seen, it was the Light side which was dominant, with a minor side within the same culture coming/ or being influenced by the Horned Serpent Clan. We’ve also seen it the other way around with the Hopi culture and Mesa Verde site, with the Horned Serpent culture being dominant there while the side of the Light takes a minor, secondary role. The reason behind that is the constant = none stop migrations and the reshuffling of the tribes for many centuries and this is the result we get. This is not an exclusive phenomenon with the Native American Nations, but we’ve also seen a huge and constant migration movement in the Andean region as well as from the Armenian plateau and in the Middle East. This is how a lot of things and cultures got mixed up as centuries went by and the new generations misunderstood things. I’ve explained this so many times, that I’m not going to repeat it. Here, is no different, but we can still distinguish the main traits for this and that…while sometimes it gets hard and trickier to do so. I’m going to stop here and move to the next section, in this part of the world.

• Page 2 374 -

>>16655760

(Please read from the start)

Next I’m going to do what I did to the other regions of the world and check out the Out-of-Place Artifacts which are mentioned in this Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out-of-place_artifact

I’m not going to follow a specific order and just go randomly with them. I’m also not going deep into them, unless I have to/find it necessary. After I finish this, I’m going to add some peculiar and interesting things that are not mentioned in the list of Out-of-Place Artifacts and take a look at them, as I did for the other regions.

“[…]

Examples

• Maine penny: An 11th-century Norwegian coin found in a Native American shell midden at the Goddard Site in Brooklin, Maine, United States, which some authors have argued is evidence of direct contact between Vikings and Native Americans in Maine. The coin need not imply actual exploration of Maine by the Vikings, however; mainstream belief is that it was brought to Maine from Labrador or Newfoundland (where Vikings are known to have established colonies as early as the late 10th century) via an extensive northern trade network operated by indigenous peoples. If Vikings did indeed visit Maine, a much greater number and variety of Viking artifacts might be expected in the archaeological record there. Of the nearly 20,000 objects found over a 15-year period at the Goddard Site, the coin was the sole non-native artifact.”

>> So they are not denying the authenticity of the coin (= being a real coin and not a forgery) but what they are questioning is the direct or indirect route this coin took to reach North American soil = as in if it was brought directly by the Vikings (did they reach the shores of North America?) or if it was brought there indirectly via trade or transit/ contact through another people with the Vikings. This is what I understand from this paragraph from this list Wikipedia page about the Out-of-Place Artifacts. Now let’s take a closer look what it is about with this coin:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maine_penny

“The Maine penny, also referred to as the Goddard coin, is a Norwegian silver coin dating to the reign of Olaf Kyrre King of Norway (1067–1093 AD). It was claimed to be discovered in Maine in 1957, and it has been suggested as evidence of Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact.

“Discovery

Guy Mellgren, a local resident and amateur archaeologist, said he found this coin on August 18, 1957, at the Goddard Site. This was an extensive archeological site at an old Native American settlement at Naskeag Point on Penobscot Bay in Brooklin, Maine. A 1978 article in Time called the discovery site an ancient Indian rubbish heap near the coastal town of Blue Hill. Over a lengthy period, a collection of 30,000 items from the site was donated to the Maine State Museum. The coin was donated in 1974.”

>> Listen to this beauty: “TIME called the discovery site an ancient Indian rubbish heap […]” = this tells a lot on its own without me commenting much about it. Anons NOW know what this really means.

• Page 2 375 –

>>16655764

(Please read from the start)

“The coin

Much of the circumstances of the finding of the coin were not well preserved in the record (as was the case with the majority of the 30,000 finds). The coin was at first mis-identified as a British penny from the 12th century. In 1978, experts from London considered that it might had been of Norse origin. Today the identity of the Maine Penny as an Olaf Kyrre silver coin is not in doubt. Kolbjørn Skaare of the University of Oslo determined the coin had been minted between 1065 and 1080 AD and widely circulated in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. The penny was found with a perforation, probably for use as a pendant. This area of the coin has since crumbled to dust from corrosion.”

>> The level of neglect is incredible. With everything I’ve read so far = in general, about North America, mostly the States, the preservation of sites and how the artifacts are handled is worse than countries with no laws in them. Now, can I get curious and ask what the heck is going on with the States on how to handle artifacts and sites? Also did anyone reading notice the patterns of “record” loss or not correctly registering the crucial information when it comes to notable or intriguing artifacts? We’ve seen this before with Narmer’s palette and all the controversy about it….and these were not the only artifacts which were mishandled = all “interesting” artifacts were. This is a pattern anons, and this is done on purpose, if you haven’t guessed it yet.

This is an indication that there is something (((they))) don’t want the general public to know about this specific artifact, because whatever that information is, it’s a threat to the carefully doctored History (((they))) created for us = it will shatter the illusion of the matrix. Just look at what (((their))) tool = the Time, used as words to blur the image. This is another indication (((they))) don’t want people = the public, looking into this.

“Norse origin

The Goddard site has been dated to 1180–1235, within the circulation period of pennies of this type. The people who lived at the site at that time are generally considered to be ancestors of the Penobscot. While the date is around two hundred years after the last of the Vinland voyages (c. 1000) described in Norse sagas, it is well within the period during which the Norse lived in Greenland (10th to 15th centuries) and could have visited North America.

The penny's coastal origin has been offered as evidence either that the Norsemen from Greenland traveled farther south than Newfoundland or that the coin might have been traded locally. However, the penny was the only Norse artifact found at the site, which according to substantial evidence was a hub in a large native trade network. For example, a single artifact generally identified as a Dorset culture burin was also recovered there, and may support the idea that both the burin and the penny could plausibly have come to Maine through native trade-channels from Norse sources in Labrador or Newfoundland.”

>> Yes, this is the general idea that we all got about how this coin reached Maine.

• Page 2 376 –

>>16655776

(Please read from the start)

“The Maine State Museum website favors the view that the coin was found at the site and is therefore evidence of Norse presence on the North American continent, although the Museum states "the most likely explanation for the coin's presence is that it was obtained by natives somewhere else, perhaps in Newfoundland where the only known New World Norse settlement has been found at L’Anse aux Meadows, and that it eventually reached the Goddard site through native trade channels".The Maine State Museum describes it as "the only pre-Columbian Norse artifact generally regarded as genuine found within the United States".”

>> This is one possibility but not a certainty. We should have found the trade trail and other items from the same genre in other places of trade.

“However, the possibility that it may be a hoax has been raised. Notably this Norwegian silver coin and other similar coins of that era were available on the open market during 1957. Thus Mellgren could have had the means and the opportunity to plant the coin at the site, or he could have been deceived by someone planting the coin – though it is unclear what the motive would have been. There are enough questions regarding the provenance of the coin to leave its archaeological significance unclear. An assessment of the validity of the find by anthropologist Edmund Snow Carpenter concluded: "Not proven”.”

>> So they are not questioning the authenticity of the artifact itself, but how it got there = as in the Main Stream History is trying to “frame” this coin as a hoax because (((they))) are trying to peddle the narrative that it’s planted on the site. You gotta ask yourselves why (((they))) are doing that? What are (((they))) hiding? What is it (((they))) don’t want us to find out about this issue? What (((they))) are fighting is not the authenticity of the coin but how it got to where it was found; so ask yourselves = what is hiding in this specific tunnel?

“Robert Hoge, writing for the American Numismatic Society in 2006, stated that "There is no reliable confirmation on the documentation of the Goddard coin, and much circumstantial evidence suggests that someone was deliberately trying to manipulate or obfuscate the situation. The Norse coin from Maine should probably be considered a hoax."

A November 2017 paper by Norwegian numismatist Svein Gullbeck suggests that the coin is a genuine find.”

>> I’m saying it again, the issue is not about if the coin is real or not; the issue is how it got to where it was found = dug out. The coin is real and it’s very clear (((they))) don’t want the public to go digging into HOW this coin arrived/got to where it was found = this is where anons whom are interested should dig. (((They))) are hiding something about HOW it got there; (((they))) don’t want us to find out how it got there because (((they))) are aware it will shatter the historical narrative (((they))) have pushed forward and expose things (((they))) don’t want the public to be aware/know about.

This is it for the Maine Penny.

• Page 2 377 –

>>16655781

(Please read from the start)

The next Out-of-Place artifact is the Kensington rune stone. From Out-of-Place artifacts page of Wikipedia:

“[…]

Questionable interpretations

[…]

• Kensington Runestone: A runestone unearthed in 1898 in Kensington, Minnesota, entangled in the roots of a tree. Runologists have dismissed the inscription's authenticity on linguistic evidence, while geologists disagree as to whether the stone shows weathering that would indicate a medieval date.

[…]”

Let’s take a closer look to this stone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensington_Runestone

“The Kensington Runestone is a slab of greywacke stone covered in runes that was allegedly discovered in central Minnesota in 1898. Olof Öhman, a Swedish immigrant, reported that he unearthed it from a field in the largely rural township of Solem in Douglas County. It was later named after the nearest settlement, Kensington.

The inscription purports to be a record left behind by Scandinavian explorers in the 14th century (internally dated to the year 1362). There has been a drawn-out debate regarding the stone's authenticity, but since the first scientific examination in 1910, the scholarly consensus has classified it as a 19th-century hoax, with some critics directly charging Öhman with fabrication. Nevertheless there remains a community convinced of the stone's authenticity.”

>> Oh my! Look how this is worded. From the get go (((they))) are shooing us here = kicking our rears out and telling us there is nothing to see here, so get out of this. Oh my! Why the rush in classifying this as a hoax? Why not say it’s controversial? Whom are the scholars whom made that consensus about this stone? Give us some names so we can check them out.

“Provenance

Swedish immigrant Olof Öhman said that he found the stone late in 1898 while clearing land he had recently acquired of trees and stumps before plowing. The stone was said to be near the crest of a small knoll rising above the wetlands, lying face down and tangled in the root system of a stunted poplar tree estimated to be from less than 10 to about 40 years old. The artifact is about 30 × 16 × 6 inches (76 × 41 × 15 cm) in size and weighs 202 pounds (92 kg). Öhman's 10-year-old son Edward noticed some markings, and the farmer later said he thought they had found an "Indian almanac".”

• Page 2 378 –

>>16655788

(Please read from the start)

>> Will I be stunning the reader if I told you that this smells like authentic? I think I’ve mentioned this before in this thread, but the best archaeological finds were found out exactly in this same method = someone plowing the land and found something. This is what we call a “coincidence” find but it’s also the most authentic type of finds since it’s not planned or orchestrated. So for me, this is not the first time that I read about a site or an artifact (even important ones) discovered this way = by accident. For me, this doesn’t discredit at all Olof nor the stone itself, right the opposite, it pushes more and more towards being an authentic artifact.

“During this period, the journey of Leif Ericson to Vinland (North America) was being widely discussed and there was renewed interest in the Vikings throughout Scandinavia, stirred by the National Romanticism movement. Five years earlier Norway had participated in the World's Columbian Exposition by sending the Viking, a replica of the Gokstad ship, to Chicago. There was also friction between Sweden and Norway (which ultimately led to Norway's independence from Sweden in 1905). Some Norwegians claimed the stone was a Swedish hoax and there were similar Swedish accusations because the stone references a joint expedition of Norwegians and Swedes. It is thought to be more than coincidental that the stone was found among Scandinavian newcomers in Minnesota, still struggling for acceptance and quite proud of their Nordic heritage.”

>> This argument about the authenticity of the stone is based on “possible” political rivalry which means nothing. This argument has no value if it’s not backed up with evidence proving this really happened; like shipment papers or an expert in runes was living in the area etc. You know, something tangible and factual to back up this hypothesis and not just basing it on some “possible” political rivalry between 2 countries. Besides Olof thought it was writing from the Native Americans, it never crossed his mind what was written is actually Runes ^_~

“A copy of the inscription made its way to the University of Minnesota. Olaus J. Breda (1853–1916), professor of Scandinavian Languages and Literature in the Scandinavian Department, declared the stone to be a forgery and published a discrediting article which appeared in Symra in 1910. Breda also forwarded copies of the inscription to fellow linguists and historians in Scandinavia, such as Oluf Rygh, Sophus Bugge, Gustav Storm, Magnus Olsen and Adolf Noreen. They "unanimously pronounced the Kensington inscription a fraud and forgery of recent date".

>> This is much better; now we have names that we can check and dig into to see whom is getting the big checks and whom is paying them. For those interested in this dig, you should check if these “scholars” are part of the “paid experts” club or not.

“The stone was then sent to Northwestern University in Evanston, Illinois. Scholars either dismissed it as a prank or felt unable to identify a sustainable historical context and the stone was returned to Öhman. Hjalmar Holand, a Norwegian-American historian and author, claimed Öhman gave him the stone. However, the Minnesota Historical Society has a bill of sale showing Öhman sold them the stone for $10 in 1911. Holand renewed public interest with an article enthusiastically summarizing studies that were made by geologist Newton Horace Winchell (Minnesota Historical Society) and linguist George T. Flom (Philological Society of the University of Illinois), who both published opinions in 1910.”

• Page 2 379 –

>>16655798

(Please read from the start)

“According to Winchell, the tree under which the stone was found had been destroyed before 1910. Several nearby poplars that witnesses estimated as being about the same size were cut down and, by counting their rings, it was determined they were around 30–40 years old. One member of the team who had excavated at the find site in 1899, county school superintendent Cleve Van Dyke, later recalled the trees being only 10 or 12 years old. The surrounding county had not been settled until 1858, and settlement was severely restricted for a time by the Dakota War of 1862 (although it was reported that the best land in the township adjacent to Solem, Holmes City, was already taken by 1867, by a mixture of Swedish, Norwegian and "Yankee" settlers).

Winchell estimated that the inscription was roughly 500 years old, by comparing its weathering with the weathering on the backside, which he assumed was glacial and 8000 years old. He also stated that the chisel marks were fresh. More recently geologist Harold Edwards has also noted that "The inscription is about as sharp as the day it was carved … The letters are smooth showing virtually no weathering." Winchell also mentions in the same report that Prof. W. O. Hotchkiss, state geologist of Wisconsin, estimated that the runes were "at least 50 to 100 years". Meanwhile, Flom found a strong apparent divergence between the runes used in the Kensington inscription and those in use during the 14th century. Similarly, the language of the inscription was modern compared to the Nordic languages of the 14th century.

The Kensington Runestone is on display at the Runestone Museum in Alexandria, Minnesota.”

>> So the physical, tangible evidence from the stone are indicating the inscription or should I say the epigraphy is of a few hundred years old – but certainly not ancient (=thousands of years) nor freshly made. It makes you wonder what’s the big deal about this stone if it’s an authentic one, doesn’t it?

“Text and translation

The text consists of nine lines on the face of the stone, and three lines on the edge, read as follows:

Front:

8 : göter : ok : 22 : norrmen : po :

…o : opdagelsefärd : fro :

vinland : of : vest : vi :

hade : läger : ved : 2 : skjär : en :

dags : rise : norr : fro : deno : sten :

vi : var : ok : fiske : en : dagh : äptir :

vi : kom : hem : fan : 10 : man : röde :

af : blod : og : ded : AVM :

frälse : äf : illü.

Side:

här : (10) : mans : ve : havet : at : se :

äptir : vore : skip : 14 : dagh : rise :

from : deno : öh : ahr : 1362 :”

• Page 2 380 –

>>16655804

(Please read from the start)

“The sequences rr, ll and gh represent actual digraphs. The AVM is written in Latin capitals. The numbers given in Arabic numerals in the above transcription are given in the pentimal system. At least seven of the runes, including those transcribed a, d, v, j, ä, ö above, are not in any standard known from the medieval period (see below for details). The language of the inscription is close to modern Swedish, the transliterated text being quite easily comprehensible to any speaker of a modern Scandinavian language. The language, being closer to the Swedish of the 19th than of the 14th century, is one of the main reasons for the scholarly consensus dismissing it as a hoax.

The text translates to:

"Eight Geats and twenty-two Norwegians on an exploration journey from Vinland to the west. We had camp by two skerries one day's journey north from this stone. We were [out] to fish one day. After we came home [we] found ten men red of blood and dead. AVM (Ave Virgo Maria) save [us] from evil."

"[We] have ten men by the sea to look after our ships, fourteen days' travel from this island. [In the] year 1362."

>> I’m unable to say anything about this since I’m totally clueless about the Nordic History. I never got interested about it. So I’m going to keep on reading and see what it’s about with this stone. So far, both sides have good points/arguments.

“Linguistic analysis

Holand took the stone to Europe and, while newspapers in Minnesota carried articles hotly debating its authenticity, the stone was quickly dismissed by Swedish linguists.”

>> Honestly, the behavior of these “scholars” and now the linguists is making me scratch my head. Do you even know how many times we review an inscription before making a publication about it in archaeology? The behavior is odd = it’s either pointing the experts are hiding something and they want to dismiss this as a hoax fast. Or, the forgery is so blatant, so obvious that it’s ridiculous to spend a split second to read this inscription. The speed in which this is dismissed is indicating this is either a very obvious forgery or they are hiding something about it.

“For the next 40 years, Holand struggled to sway public and scholarly opinion about the Runestone, writing articles and several books. He achieved brief success in 1949, when the stone was put on display at the Smithsonian Institution, and scholars such as William Thalbitzer and S. N. Hagen published papers supporting its authenticity. At nearly the same time, Scandinavian linguists Sven Jansson, Erik Moltke, Harry Anderson and K. M. Nielsen, along with a popular book by Erik Wahlgren, again questioned the Runestone's authenticity.”

>> This is getting more and more suspicious. Lots of odd behavior and reactions from both sides = the ones believing the stone to be fake and the ones believing the stone to be real.

• Page 2 381 –

>>16655815

(Please read from the start)

“Along with Wahlgren, historian Theodore C. Blegen flatly asserted Öhman had carved the artifact as a prank, possibly with help from others in the Kensington area. Further resolution seemed to come with the 1976 published transcript of an interview of Frank Walter Gran, conducted by Paul Carson, Jr. on August 13, 1967 that had been recorded on audio tape. In it, Gran said his father John confessed in 1927 that Öhman made the inscription. John Gran's story however was based on second-hand anecdotes he had heard about Öhman, and although it was presented as a dying declaration, Gran lived for several more years, saying nothing more about the stone.”

>> Is the audio tape accessible to the public? Can we listen to the confession?

“The possibility of the Runestone being an authentic 14th-century artifact was again raised in 1982 by Robert Hall, an emeritus professor of Italian language and literature at Cornell University, who published a book (and a follow up in 1994) questioning the methodology of its critics. Hall asserted that the odd philological problems in the Runestone could be the result of normal dialectal variances in Old Swedish of the period. He further contended that critics had failed to consider the physical evidence, which he found leaning heavily in favor of authenticity.”

>> I fully agree with R. Hall. The physical, tangible evidence are pointing in favor of this stone being authentic, but the “language” is not according to the “experts”. He also has a point when he says that there might be dialectal variances. I’ve seen this many times before in archaeology in my lifetime, so it’s not uncommon to have dialectal variances.

“In The Vikings and America (1986), Wahlgren again stated that the text bore linguistic abnormalities and spellings that he thought suggested the Runestone was a forgery.”

>> I wish we had more details about these linguistic abnormalities and spellings to check for ourselves if it’s real or not.

“Lexical evidence

One of the main linguistic arguments for the rejection of the text as genuine Old Swedish is the term opthagelse farth (updagelsefard) "journey of discovery". This lexeme is unattested in either Scandinavian, Low Franconian or Low German before the 16th century. Similar terms exist in modern Scandinavian (Norwegian oppdagingsferd or oppdagelsesferd, Swedish upptäcktsfärd). "Opdage" is a loan from Low German *updagen, Dutch opdagen, which is in turn from High German aufdecken, ultimately loan-translated from French découvrir "to discover" in the 16th century. The Norwegian historian Gustav Storm often used the modern Norwegian lexeme in late 19th-century articles on Viking exploration, creating a plausible incentive for the manufacturer of the inscription to use this word.

Grammatical evidence

Another characteristic pointed out by skeptics is the text's lack of cases. Early Old Swedish (14th century) still retained the four cases of Old Norse, but Late Old Swedish (15th century) reduced its case structure to two cases, so that the absence of inflection in a Swedish text of the 14th century would be an irregularity. Similarly, the inscription text does not use the plural verb forms that were common in the 14th century and have only recently disappeared: for example, (plural forms in parenthesis) "wi war" (warum), "hathe" (hafðe), "[wi] fiske" (fiskaðum), "kom" (komum), "fann" (funnum) and "wi hathe" (hafðum).”

• Page 2 382 –

>>16655827

(Please read from the start)

“Proponents of the stone's authenticity pointed to sporadic examples of these simpler forms in some 14th-century texts and to the great changes of the morphological system of the Scandinavian languages that began during the latter part of that century.”

>> Maybe I misunderstood what is written here, but did they just say in the second paragraph that changes started to occur linguistically during the same century the stone was dated back to? Such changes don’t happen overnight, and it takes many decades for the change to be finalized. This opens the possibility of the inscription being actually authentic and correct. This is a FACT which cannot be dismissed because of the various different forms the language could have taken, depending on the geographic location and other influences and variables.

“Paleographic evidence

The inscription contains "pentadic" numerals. Such numerals are known in Scandinavia, but nearly always from relatively recent times, not from verified medieval runic monuments, on which numbers were usually spelled out as words.

S. N. Hagen stated "The Kensington alphabet is a synthesis of older unsimplified runes, later dotted runes, and a number of Latin letters … The runes for a, n, s and t are the old Danish unsimplified forms which should have been out of use for a long time [by the 14th century] … I suggest that [a posited 14th century] creator must at some time or other in his life have been familiar with an inscription (or inscriptions) composed at a time when these unsimplified forms were still in use" and that he "was not a professional runic scribe before he left his homeland".”

>> It’s clear from the text that these were travelers and it’s not written by a “professional” runic scribe. There is something that has been bothering me about this stone ever since I saw it for the first time in the pictures = it doesn’t have a smooth, flat, clean, clear surface.

Worldwide, there is a certain “way” for scribes, regardless to which age or civilization/culture they belonged to. What I’m saying is that scribes worldwide are kinda picky on which “surface” they write on = they like flat, smooth, clean surfaces to write on and not rugged or bumpy ones; regardless which type of material they are writing on = stone, clay, metal, paper, leather etc. Please take a good look at the picture I’m posting with this page – the surface of this stone is not smooth enough to please a scribe to write on. I’m not talking about the broken section which I’m pointing to with a green arrow. I’m talking about the “bump/dent” I’ve put in a yellow box and pointing to with a red arrow. This is a “flaw” in the material used as a surface to write on; which, in this case, is a stone. Most of the time professional scribes avoid using such surfaces with bumps in them because it will disrupt the parallel lines of the text. If you don’t believe me, just go back and take a look to the many steles I’ve put pictures of in this thread from many cultures/civilizations. Scribes always chose smooth, clean cut surfaces to write on so that the lines remain parallel and won’t overlap or go zigzag. This is not the case here. Here there is a flaw in the stone which could very well make the lines of the inscription overlap one another if it’s not written with care. It’s clear this is not written by a scribe.

So if it’s not a scribe whom wrote this, then whom did? It’s obviously someone whom can write and even count. No brainer there. But it’s also someone whom is aware that he should mark the stone with a date. He knows directions too; like North and East. When you read the inscription it feels like this is a marker or a record left behind by an adventurer or an explorer, but then, you also get the feeling he is somewhat worried or scared when he mentioned the 10 men of blood and dead. An adventurer or an explorer would be mentally ready to encounter any sort of danger, including thieves or murderers. So it’s not that. When you combine all of those details together, what possibilities do I have: a trader, a scholar, a clergyman maybe. Anyone reading has another suggestion?

• Page 2 383 –

>>16655874

(Please read from the start)

“A possible origin for the irregular shape of the runes was discovered in 2004, in the 1883 notes of a then-16-year-old journeyman tailor with an interest in folk music, Edward Larsson. Larsson's aunt had migrated with her husband and son from Sweden to Crooked Lake, just outside Alexandria, in 1870. Larsson's sheet lists two different Futharks. The first Futhark consists of 22 runes, the last two of which are bind-runes, representing the letter-combinations EL and MW. His second Futhark consists of 27 runes, where the last 3 are specially adapted to represent the letters å, ä, and ö of the modern Swedish alphabet. The runes in this second set correspond closely to the non-standard runes in the Kensington inscription.

The abbreviation for Ave Maria consists of the Latin letters AVM. Wahlgren (1958) noted that the carver had incised a notch on the upper right-hand corner of the letter V. The Massey Twins in their 2004 paper argued that this notch is consistent with a scribal abbreviation for a final -e used in the 14th century.”

>> This is like having different hand writings anons. If you take different epigraphic inscriptions from one civilization, you will notice that the letters are the same but their form is a bit different = making the hand writing different. I’m talking about alphabet letters here anons and not pictograms or symbol way of writing. If I take 50 people and ask them to write the ABC in English, I will have 50 different looking letters despite it being the same alphabet of the same language. Same thing for Greek, Arabic, Russian etc. I hope the reader understands what I’m saying here.

But it is also true that there are some “special” features of how the letters are written that are specific to some eras or should I say centuries. Just take a look of how the letters are written/form in Old English and compare them to how they are written/formed now. The difference is huge. Sometimes, depending on the case, the way the letters are written/formed, can help us identify in which era/century they were written in.

“Purported historical context

Norse colonies are known to have existed in Greenland from the late 10th century to at least the 14th century, and at least one short-lived settlement was established in Newfoundland, at L'Anse aux Meadows, in the 11th century, but no other widely accepted material evidence of Norse contact with the Americas in the pre-Columbian era has yet emerged. Still, there is some limited documentary evidence for possible 14th-century Scandinavian expeditions to North America.”

>> This is carefully worded in order to limit the damage and trying to contain the idea of the Vikings have reached the Americas before Columbus did. It’s more than obvious (((they))) don’t want any researcher to go digging into that tunnel and disturb the carefully crafted History (((they))) made up for us.

“In a letter by Gerardus Mercator to John Dee, dated 1577, Mercator refers to a Jacob Cnoyen, who had learned that eight men returned to Norway from an expedition to the Arctic islands in 1364. One of the men, a priest, provided the King of Norway with a great deal of geographical information. In the early 19th century, Carl Christian Rafn mentioned a priest named Ivar Bardarsson who had previously been based in Greenland and turns up in Norwegian records from 1364 onward.”

• Page 2 384 –

>>16655913

(Please read from the start)

>> A priest. I didn’t think of it, but yes, it’s possible. It could be a trader, it could be a priest. Both are possible. But does a priest have the tools and the experience to carve rather neat letters on a stone?

“Furthermore, in 1354, King Magnus Eriksson of Sweden and Norway issued a letter appointing a law officer named Paul Knutsson as leader of an expedition to the colony of Greenland, in order to investigate reports that the population was turning away from Christian culture. Another of the documents reprinted by the 19th-century scholars was a scholarly attempt by Icelandic Bishop Gisli Oddsson, in 1637, to compile a history of the Arctic colonies. He dated the Greenlanders' fall away from Christianity to 1342 and claimed that they had turned instead to America. Supporters of a 14th-century origin for the Kensington Runestone argue that Knutson may, therefore, have travelled beyond Greenland to North America in search of renegade Greenlanders, whereupon most of his expedition was killed in Minnesota, leaving just the eight voyagers to return to Norway.”

>> Yes, this makes sense. This might be a good explanation. I’m not expert in this matter so it’s better for those interested to look deep into this; verifying everything.

“However, there is no evidence that the Knutson expedition ever set sail (the government of Norway went through considerable turmoil in 1355) and the information from Cnoyen as relayed by Mercator states specifically that the eight men who came to Norway in 1364 were not survivors of a recent expedition, but descended from the colonists who had settled the distant lands several generations earlier. Those early 19th-century books, which aroused a great deal of interest among Scandinavian Americans, would have been available to a late 19th-century hoaxer.

Hjalmar Holand adduced the "blond" Indians among the Mandan on the Upper Missouri River as possible descendants of the Swedish and Norwegian explorers. This was dismissed as "tangential" to the Runestone issue by Alice Beck Kehoe in her 2004 book The Kensington Runestone, Approaching a Research Question Holistically.”

>> The BLONDE Native Americans can be the descendants of such Swedish and Norwegian explorers as suggested here. But they can also be descendants = pure bloods, of another group of BLONDE people with BLUE EYES; a very specific group whom had wings and could fly.

“One possible route of such an expedition, connecting the Hudson Bay with Kensington, would lead up either Nelson River or Hayes River, through Lake Winnipeg, then up the Red River of the North. The northern waterway begins at Traverse Gap, on the other side of which is the source of the Minnesota River, which flows south to join the Mississippi River at Saint Paul/Minneapolis. This route was examined by Flom (1910), who found that explorers and traders had come from Hudson Bay to Minnesota by this route decades before the area was officially settled.”

>> Yes, this is very possible. Waterways are roads connecting people just like land roads.

This is it for this Wikipedia page, but not about the Kensington Stone.

• Page 2 385 –

>>16655921

(Please read from the start)

This is what was written in Wikipedia, let’s take a look what the other side of the coin looks like: https://www.thekensingtonrunestone.com

“The Kensington Runestone

UPDATED: 07/28/2017

Introduction

The Kensington Runestone has been the subject of discussion and controversy since its discovery in 1898 by a Swedish farmer, named Olof Ohman, while clearing land for his farm near Kensington, Minnesota (45 48' 46.17"N - 95 40' 01.53"). Due to inherent skepticism, and the fact that Olof was himself Swedish, many people thought the stone was a forgery. This controversy has existed for over 100 years up until this very time. Well the controversy is over. There is now physical proof that the runestone is authentic and plays a large role in American history. The Kensington Runestone, pictured above, is 31 inches high, 16 inches wide, six inches thick and weighs 202 pounds. On the face and one side are characters known as "runes", a type of writing used in the Middle Ages only by inhabitants of northwestern Europe, such as the Norwegians, Danes, and Gotland Islanders.

Geoglyphology

The information gathered for presentation on this website was gathered through the rediscovery of an ancient science called Geoglyphology. (Google keyword: Geoglyphology). The calculations performed on both this website and the Newport Tower website require the use of a special software called "Google Earth". Google's software is able to calculate true spherical bearings on a curved surface and then display them correctly on a flat plane. This software can be acquired, free of charge, by searching the internet using the keywords "Google Earth".

The advantage of Geoglyphology, as it relates to Archeology, is to expand both the search area and the knowledge base available to the Archaeologist.

Until now the majority of the information available to the Archaeologist was gleaned from the information recovered at the dig site. In recent years it has been discovered that a great majority of the ancient architectural, monolithic and geoglyphic structures built around the world have something in common. That commonality is that the structures were aligned in such a manner that the study of their linier alignment unveils a much larger story and immensely expands the data available to the archeologist and the related disciplines. It should be noted that many ancient geoglyphs contain both astrological and geoglyphological information in their alignments.”

>> We’ve been thinking a lot about this issue = the alignments. We think this is done solely by the Light side; like a signature mark from the Light. This is not something practiced by the Dark side back then. It has a big meaning, but we don’t know what it is for sure. We know the flying jet suits the ThunderBirds had, helps a lot with this type of construction, but apart that we are still trying to figure things out.

• Page 2 386 –

>>16655930

(Please read from the start)

“Data recovered from sites, which included Geoglyphology in their study, included obtaining the geographical range of the culture being studied, the level of sophistication that existed in relation to their understanding of mathematics and geometry, their knowledge of world geography, the discovery of other archeological sites that were unknown prior to the studies, and the dating of the culture itself by the data collected at related offsite locations.

The success of these studies shows that Geoglyphology can play a major role in expanding the knowledge base available to the Archeologist. The protocols used to determine the termination points of the radials are not included in this article, but were established over 30,000 years ago and only recently rediscovered. (Geoglyphology is explained at http://www.thefaramfoundation.com )”

>> Putting a date = chronology, for us on anything has been impossible, a true date that is. When I talk about possible dates, I use the dates given by the Main Stream History. I explained this before to the readers. But we don’t trust these dates, we think loads of them are “fixed”/manipulated dates.

“The Kensington Runestone

If you visited the Newport Tower website ( Newport Tower Link ) you will understand how the Kensington Runestone fits into that puzzle. The Newport Tower was previously tought to work with the Kensington Runestone and Inspiration Peak to outline an ancient North American territory which was later defended against the a Norse invasion. Well, all that is true except that the Newport Tower construction was to designate a territory which was negotiated c1450CE with Portugal. It was the "location" of the Newport Tower which was used to establish the boundaries of the original and ancient North American Territory.

The Northern boundary of the Templar Territory, as was Inspiration Peak, was identified by two radials projected from the Stonehenge geoglyph. The original boundary was a line running between the current ends of the US northern boundary. The Northern US boundary changed in the "Treaty of Paris" after the Revolutionary War with Britain. Further changes were made during negotians in the coming years. Interestingly, the two ends of the original US boundary, as designated by Stonehenge, remains the same today. More proof that the Stonehenge Geoglyph is valid.”

>> This is rather interesting, unexpected and strange. There is definitely something about this line for the Bloodlines to draw the US border/boundary on it. This is no coincidence. I always thought it was strange how the Northern borderline of the States was more or less a straight line like that on maps. Also, I took a quick look at Inspiration Peak in Minnesota; I think there is something there, but it’s covered with the flora and it has blended with the territory there. I have no idea what it could be, but there is something hidden in there, most probably fossilized. Call it my intuition if you want.

• Page 2 387 –

>>16655937

(Please read from the start)

“As you saw in the Newport Tower presentation, the Newport Tower lead us to two important geographical, and historically important, points. One was Inspiration Peak, MN USA and the other was the Kensington Runestone Location. The Newport Tower, Inspiration Peak, and the Kensington Runestone were important in outlining the territory given to the Celts/Templars by the Portuguese. (ref: The book "La Merica - 2014) There was a previous North American Territory which existed prior to the Newport Tower being constructed. Based on the fact that Inspiration Peak and the Newport RI locations were identified by geoglyphs, as far back as 7000 BCE, it is safe to assume that said territory existed prior to the Newport Tower. The Kensington Runestone was carved to designate the revision of the original territory. That revision came about through an agreement between the Templars and the Portuguese to deed Mesoamerica to Spain. (More on this later)”

>> Oh Lord! This sounds to be WAY bigger than what I thought it would be. Smells like a “conspiracy theory” is floating in the air when it comes to the Kensington stone. Is what we read in this paragraph the real reason why (((they))) don’t want us to go looking into the authenticity of this stone? But I also wonder why wasn’t this stone connected to the Maine Penny and other “Nordic” artifacts discovered in the States?

“The Kensington Runestone Solution

Upon submitting the runestone to a handwriting analysis it was determined that the writing had been done by two different persons. The first five rows were done by one person and the last four rows, and side, were done by a second person. The first tip off is the slant of the work. If you will check the slant in the pictures above you will notice a distinct difference from one persons writing to the other. Another tip off is the way the letters are formed. For example; the first person brings the right leg of his "R" all the way down to the baseline, the second person stops short of the baseline. As is common when someone is attempting to copy another person’s writing, the first half of the sixth line is similar to the first five lines. But as is always the case, the copier gets tired of trying to copy the other person’s style and towards the end of the first line and thereafter he reverts back to his own style.

It is believed that the second persons writing was added to more clearly define the boundaries of the North American territory after an agreement to deed Mesoamerica to Spain. As is depicted in the Newport Tower solution, Central America was once part of a North America land claim.

In order to discover how the runestone and the tower were connected it would be necessary to study a translation of the Runestone done by Dr. Richard Neilsen. As previously stated, the builders of the Newport Tower and creators of the Kensington Runestone have little use for words and place most of their emphasis on numbers, geometry and symbols. Attention was directed to the numbers contained in the translation.”

• Page 2 388 –

>>16655947

(Please read from the start)

“The 1362 number, the last characters on the runestone, rather than being a date were found to be a code which validates the runestone as genuine. This information will be retained for future use. Spain took over Central America in 1519CE when Cortez invaded Mexico. This territory seems to have been deeded to Spain sometime before this. Prior to 1492CE, at the end of the Iberian/Moorish War, the Templars and Portugal agreed to deed Central America to Spain. c1820 CE Portugal constructed the Guimar Pyramids on the Island of Tenerife, Canary Islands, to validate the deeding of the new boundaries of the North American territory to what was now the United States. Spain already had an interest in Mexico long before Cortez made his move. There are numerous geoglyphs, which were planted along the path of Columbus' first voyage, in 1492CE, to outline the territory given to Spain by the Portuguese/Etruscans and the Celts. At one time the Etruscans, now the Portuguese, claimed all of North and South America. The ancient survey markers that support this can be seen in the book "Ancient Signposts".”

>> This is stretching it a bit too far for me. I understand and accept the possibility of a secret deal being made behind closed door by the Bloodlines of the time. But to link the Portuguese to the Etruscans…oh Lord! Whomever wrote this/thought of this, doesn’t know of all the Blood mixing that took place, the colonies and the migration waves. After so many centuries, there is no such thing as a pure blood in BIG numbers anymore among the Light clans. This is why the Armenian Genocide happened, the real reason for it. The Armenians are pure blood of the Light.

If you have been paying attention to what I’ve talked about when it comes to the Taurus mountain chain, you would have understood that we are suspecting this territory at the corner of the Med Sea was either a Phoenician one or under the influence of the Phoenician culture = I’m talking the region just to the North of Aleppo in the Taurus mountain chain. There were Phoenicians living there for sure. But did they rule the City-States there? We don’t know. So when the Kingdom of Armenia (Cilicia) was formed, it expanded to cover, more or less, the ancient territory inhabitant by the Phoenicians on the North of Aleppo.

I already showed anons that the Armenians and the Phoenicians were ONE tribe, One clan, which split. We think they were, at first, one group living in the vicinity of Mount Nemrut. Once the Flood water level went down, this group was split into 2 sub-groups: one with Hayk as a leader went to live in Mesopotamia and the second group with the Crown Prince of Atlantis as its leader went West and became the Phoenicians.

The Armenians under the leadership of Hayk went to stay in Mesopotamia first, then they left because of king Belus and they went on a long journey and resettled at the feet of Mount Ararat, in the end, where they originated from = they came out of the Ark. As for the Phoenicians, they separated from the group lead by Hayk before they entered Mesopotamia and headed West to settle on the East shores of the Med Sea. They were under the leadership of the Crown Prince and after some time this group was called by the Greeks as the Phoenicians.

• Page 2 389 –

>>16655950

(Please read from the start)

After many centuries and after their descendants of both have forgotten their common origin and ancestry, some Armenians left Motherland Armenia and created the Minor/Smaller kingdom of Armenia (also known as Cilicia). This is when the Armenian pure blood, mixed with the blood of the locals in Cilicia, which some were direct descendants of their Phoenician ancestors. After this happened, at some point in time, the Bloodlines, whom knew of the prophecy, were also obsessed with blood purity. Since the Armenians and the Phoenicians descendants were both descendants of ThunderBirds (for most of them), the Bloodlines feared a pure blood ThunderBird will be born AGAIN from THAT specific group of people whom are direct descendants of their ThunderBird ancestors. (((They))) feared the child mentioned in the prophecy will be born as a pure blood ThunderBird = the White Knight (((they))) were wary of.

The Bloodlines didn’t go after the Armenians in Motherland Armenia; there are rumors that (((they))) were, but it didn’t happen in History. Instead (((they))) aimed for the Armenians whom were living in what was known as the Kingdom of Cilicia. The Bloodlines ordered (((their))) henchmen = the Turks/Ottomans/Seljuks and the Kurds, to kill as much Armenians from the Kingdom of Cilicia as they could, regardless of gender, age, social status, because (((they))) were fearing the White Knight will be born as a pure blood ThunderBird from there. (((They))) thought that by killing as much as (((they))) could from the descendants of the ThunderBird clan, the child won’t be born, or at least the chances of the child to be born will lessen.

It never occurred to (((them))) that the child of the prophecy (((they))) feared his birth was born from a totally different place and not from the ThunderBird’s Bloodline, but the Lamassu Bloodline. It never occurred to (((them))) the child has the blood of another Light clan. It also never occurred to (((them))) that migration through ages have spread the blood of all the Light clans to the 4 corners of the globe. (((They))) remained focused on the Middle East and the ThunderBirds, but neglected other parts of the world and the other clans.

So here is the big question: why are the Bloodlines so obsessed with the ThunderBirds and the Middle East? Think about it a bit: why would (((they))) order the total annihilation of the Armenians of the Kingdom of Cilicia? = it’s because (((they))) know about the Armenians are pure blood ThunderBirds, and the locals living there before the Armenians established the kingdom there, were mostly descendants of Phoenicians? (((They))) realized that if the blood of those 2 mix, the chances are high that a pure blood ThunderBird would be born. We think it’s because (((they))) know the Phoenicians are the descendants and clan of the ThunderBirds and (((they))) know that Christ is a pure blood ThunderBird. This is what we are suspecting. And we suspect (((they))) feared that another person like Christ will be born and that child would take (((them))) out. We suspect (((them))) to know the real identity of the Armenians, of the Phoenicians and somehow (((they))) know the real identity of Christ; as in he is a Phoenician.

We keep on wondering what it is (((they))) have as evidence to believe these things. We just hope it’s still there and not destroyed; or at least some records are kept of all of this. We know for certain that in all of that has happened in History a lot of mixing and remixing of blood happened because of nonstop migration.

• Page 2 390 –

>>16655953

(Please read from the start)

“The new North American Territory, the territory agreed to by the three countries, correlates perfectly with the territory depicted by the Newport Tower. To recap, we have the original North American territory depicted by the Kensington Runstone, Inspiration Peak, and the Newport Location. Notice I said "location" not "Tower". The tower was added c1472CE, by the Celtic immigrants which followed the Templars, to designate the new North American boundaries. These boundaries, with some realignment due to the Mexican American War and negotiations with England, became what we now know as the United States. The Oak Island swamp triangle also depicts this same original 7000 year old North American territory. The Templar era ended c1450CE with the building of Rosslyn Chapel.

The Newport, RI location has been an important location, as discovered by the ancient Science of Geoglyphology, for over 7000 years. The Newport Tower was constructed c1472CE to designate the new territory agreed upon between the Templars, Portuguese and Spain. Spain was apparently in the dark about the New World prior to the collaboration of the three countries to win the Iberian/Moorish War. Not by coincidence the war ended in the spring of 1492CE. Columbus set sail for the new world in the fall of 1492CE. During his visit to the New World he placed geoglyphic survey markers on several islands to claim the territory for Spain.”

>> Yes, it seems Newport, R.I. location is quite important for the Bloodlines: we’ve already seen the Vanderbilt mansions there, mostly Marble House. I’ve been hovering around it in previous digs, but I still cannot put my finger on it. I know I was close. So this location might turn out to have some spiritual meaning or to be some energy point of some type which the Bloodlines were aware of, this is why (((they))) built all of those mansions there and made it (((their))) little vacation spot. What are the odds there are loads of tunnels down there, linking the mansions to one another?

“The above translation is the original translation by Dr. Neilson. The decoding was performed by the Faram Research Foundation and led to the information concerning the ancient territories spoken of herein.

One solution derived from the numbers given on the runestone was a heading of 10 degrees at 22 miles. This was from where the Kensington Runestone was found to "The Spacer" mentioned below. Although this interpretation seemed to be headed in the right direction, toward Inspiration Peak, it still did not give any indication that it was a correct solution to the puzzle. Neither did any of the other combination of numbers. Research was done to see if the method of measurement had changed from 1362 CE until now. Sure enough Queen Elizabeth had changed the Universal Standard of measurement, the mile, from 5000 feet to 5280 feet, after becoming Queen, in 1592 CE. That meant that 22 miles in old English miles would convert to 20.8 miles in new English miles. Curiously enough most of the explorer’s maps that have been discovered are dated in the 16th Century. Could this change in universal measurement have come about to mask all the measurements done before that?”

>> So (((they))) tempered with time, measurements and the calendar…did I miss anything (((they))) changed on purpose?

• Page 2 391 –

>>16655958

(Please read from the start)

“After converting the old English miles to new English miles the figures 10 degrees at 20.8 miles were used. This placed the end point on what became known as "The Spacer", shown below. It was called this because the measurements are so precise that when you land on the south end of the spacer, and begin your second leg from the south end, you will come up short of reaching the all important Inspiration Peak, by the same length as the spacer. The second leg of the connection must start on the north end of the Spacer. The "Spacer" is the line on the left side of the picture, which looks like a runway. This is in reality a stone wall that someone has mowed around. This object may, or may not, be currently shown on Google Earth.

Now that the Spacer has come into play one must follow the new direction which the Stone wall points at 22 degrees. The Kensington Runestone describes as this leg as 22 degrees at 2 miles in order to reach the main survey marker named Inspiration Peak. But remember, we are dealing in old English miles so the real distance is 1.9 miles. The end of the last line drawn lands precisely where the West vertex of the Newport Triangle solution landed, Inspiration Peak.

THE CAMPSITE

The figures displayed above are the figures used to transition from the place where the Kensington Runestone was found, to "Inspiration Peak". However, locating Inspiration Peak was meaningless unless you already knew the geometry associated with it. It appears that the first writer assumed that the reader would already know the geometry and would only need to locate Inspiration Peak in order to apply the mathematics. There was enough information in the first five lines of the text to locate the "…traps and two shelters one day north from this spot." (This is referring to a campsite containing the stone wall pointing to Inspiration Peak. This campsite is depicted in the next two photos.) However, the second writer had a different agenda and wanted to make the complete solution available to whoever might find the stone. This would be a prudent move if the second writer assumed the details would be lost to time. But this was not the only reason for placing new information on the stone. Since the time that Inspiration Peak was surveyed, thousands of years before, things had changed that required a revision of the boundaries that had existed for millennia. The main reason for the revision was the deeding of Mesoamerica to Spain. (See photo titled "Revised North American Territory" below)

Since the time the Kensington Runestone was first carved (c1362) the Northern Territory had changed. The territory, in its original concept, included Meso (Central) America and Baja California. In 1519 CE Hernando Cortes invaded Mexico City and claimed that land for Spain. The geoglyph in southern Texas, which marks the end of the Southern 1362 mile long radial, lies at the mouth of the Nueces River, just North of the Rio Grande River. The argument over the land between the Nueces River and the Rio Grande River is what sparked the war with Mexico.

The critical addition to the Kensington Runestone was the number 1362. As you will see the 110 degree radial and the 140 degree radial were also added and are also critical in solving the revised puzzle. The new information was a crucial part of revising the ancient survey done in North America thousands of years before. The revised North American survey excluded Central America and retained Baja California. Unfortunately Baja California was later lost in treaty negotiations after the Mexican American war.”

• Page 2 392 –

>>16655966

(Please read from the start)

“This campsite is obviously the one mentioned in the first five lines on the Kensington Runestone. The stone wall here is oriented 22 degrees at 2 miles from Inspiration Peak. All that would be necessary from here is to follow the stone wall pointer, a common pointer in Geoglyphology, to Inspiration Peak. The Pre-Columbian geoglyphs confirm this was a campsite, as placing geoglyphs at your campsite to claim a territory, or denote your travels, was a common practice at the time. The radial endpoints shown in the photo are all known, Pre-Columbian, geoglyphic locations. The lines that are generated by this geoglyph, unlike most, do not seem to form an organized territorial boundary. However, the endpoints are geoglyph endpoints used consistently by other geoglyphs around the world.

Notice that by running a line from Bermuda, the termination point of the 110 degree radial, through Amelia Island, the termination point of the 140 degree radial, as described in the Kensington Runestone, you have a line that terminates at the tip of Baja California, the new boundary of the North American Territory. (See below for a further revision of the United States Boundary after the Mexican/American War.)

Origination points for the pointers displayed in the above photo. Included are the approximate dates the pointers were created.

Stonehenge Monolith, UK - c3100BC

Monte Alban Pyramid, Oaxaca Mexico - c500BC

Pigeon Point Geoglyph, Minnesota USA - c1200AD

Manchester, Ohio Geoglyph USA - c1300AD

Geoglyph near 23rd Street NW, Washington DC USA - c1400AD

Point du Raz Geoglyphs, Bretagne, France - c1400AD

Malabo Island Geoglyphs, Equatorial New Guinea, West Africa - c1400AD

Cape of Good Hope Geoglyphs, South Tip of Africa - c1400AD

Atanacio Geoglyphs, Mexico - c1400AD

Newport Tower, Newport, RI USA - c1473AD

THE INSPIRATION PEAK LAND SURVEY

GEOGLYPHS AT THE END OF 1362 MILE LONG RADIAL ENDPOINTS FROM INSPIRATION PEAK pre-3100 BCE.

The date of pre 3100BCE was arrived at considering that the Stone Henge Geoglyph points to Inspiration Peak. It is normal for a major territorial geoglyph to use one radial to identify the adjacent major territorial geoglyph.

Depicted above is the termination point of the Northwest 1362 mile long radial from Inspiration Peak. The associated square geoglyph is a survey marker validating the Northeast corner of the Northern Territory. (Later to become the United States.) This geoglyph is on Stuart Island, the last island before Vancouver Island, Canada, which is still within the US borders. Based on protocols used in constructing the four geoglyphs depicted here, it is believed that the geoglyphs were made by the same group of people that revised the North American Land Claim. It is apparent that they wanted there to be no mistake as to the territory which they claimed, and as would be proved later, were willing to fight for. Unfortunatley the landowner has since destroyed this survey marker.”

• Page 2 393 –

>>16655978

(Please read from the start)

“Depicted above is the termination point of the Northeast 1362 mile long radial from Inspiration Peak. Unfortunately the owners of this property have not taken very good care of this geoglyph. Amazingly, this geoglyph points directly to the island of La Haute-Cote Nord, the island in the Saint Lawrence Seaway that provides the first clue, the termination point of the 013 degree radial, in solving the Newport Tower Puzzle. This geoglyph is located at the original Northern boundary of the State of Maine and the Northern Territory. The land north of here was added to the U.S. later. Unfortunatly this geoglyph has also been destroyed by the land owner.

This geoglyph requires some explanation. When this Southern 1362 mile long radial was added, after the revised North American territory was defined, it extended to within 30 miles of the Rio Grand River. Up until the Mexican-American war, there had always been a dispute as to where the Southern boundary of the United States ended. After Spain had taken over Mexico they claimed that the point where the southern 1362 mile long radial ended, the Nueces River, was the southern boundary of the United States. The US claimed that the Rio Grande River was the boundary between the US and Mexico. This dispute was not settled until the Mexican-American War.

“In the preceding photo is the glyph of the "All Seeing Eye" which is seen in Egyptian hieroglyphics, Masonic icons, and on the US one dollar bill. This glyph, and the key next to it, are of raised earth so that they will stand the test of time. This and similar glyphs are located at numerous locations around the United States as survey markers and reminders of European visitations in ancient times. The last glyph known, at this time, to have been constructed in the USA are the streets of Washington D.C. . The key glyph to the left of the eye is oriented at 360 degrees true, and points right back to Inspiration Peak.

THE FIRST VOYAGE OF COLUMBUS”

>>See maps attached with this page.

“GEOGLYPHS WHICH MAKE UP THE VARIOUS TERRITORIES:

Original North American Territory

Stonehenge c3100 BCE

Newport Tower Location - Prior to 7000 BCE

Inspiration Peak - Prior to 7000 BCE

Revised North American Territory

Stonehenge c3100 BCE

Newport Tower Location - Prior to 7000 BCE

Inspiration Peak - Prior to 7000 BCE

Kensington Runestone - c1362 - 1492 CE

Spanish Territory:

Various geoglyphs placed around the Caribbean along the route of Columbus' first voyage. - 1492 CE

Portuguese Territory

Caral Peru Geoglyphs. - c3000 BCE”

• Page 2 394 –

>>16655990

(Please read from the start)

The Kensington stone should NOT be taken alone, on its own. It should be “studied”, considered along with the other artifacts from “Nordic” origins. If we take each artifact on its own then it can be easily disregarded and brushed away as fake or a conspiracy theory or anything else. It’s more than clear that (((they))) don’t want researcher of any kind/type, to go looking or even consider the idea that the Vikings were the first to “reach” the Americas. We gotta ask ourselves why (((they))) do not wish anyone prying into this idea of the Vikings being the first to reach northern America. There could be a multitude of reasons, including that interesting article I’ve put for anons. It could be anything and everything, or nothing remarkable. This should be looked carefully and be open to the many possibilities as to why (((they))) don’t want us to go digging into this tunnel: it could be for shallow reasons, or it could be for deep reasons. Knowing the Bloodlines as I do, I think this matter is more complex and what it appears to be to us. (((They))) always have many layers of things to hide and everything is connected to something else when it comes to (((them))). One secret always leads to another secret with (((them))) around.

Let’s more to another Out-of-Place artifact listed on the same Wikipedia page:

“[…]

Questionable interpretations

[…]

• Lake Winnipesaukee mystery stone: Originally thought to be a record of a treaty between tribes, subsequent analysis has called its authenticity into question.”

Let’s take a closer look at the Winnipesaukee stone: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Winnipesaukee_mystery_stone

“The Lake Winnipesaukee mystery stone is an alleged out-of-place artifact (OOPArt) found in a town near Lake Winnipesaukee in New Hampshire. The stone's age, purpose and origin are unknown.

The stone is about 4 inches (100 mm) long and 2.5 inches (64 mm) thick, dark and egg-shaped, bearing a variety of carved symbols. Carvings on one side of the stone show an ear of corn and several other figures. The other side is more abstract, featuring inverted arrows, a moon shape, some dots and a spiral.

A hole goes through the stone from top to bottom, seemingly bored from both ends with different size bits (1⁄8 inch (3.2 mm) at the top and 3⁄8 inch (9.5 mm) at the bottom).”

>> This is a rather peculiar artifact isn’t it?

• Page 2 395 –

>>16655992

(Please read from the start)

“History

The stone was reportedly found in 1872 in Meredith, New Hampshire, by workers digging a hole for a fence post. Seneca Ladd, a Meredith businessman who hired the workers, was given credit for the discovery. In 1892, upon Ladd's death, the stone passed to Frances Ladd Coe of Center Harbor, one of his daughters. In 1927, she donated the stone to the New Hampshire Historical Society.

The stone is currently on exhibit at the Museum of New Hampshire History.

Analysis and interpretation

A contemporary source suggested that the stone "commemorates a treaty between two tribes". Another writer later suggested that it is a thunderstone. With the somewhat limited understanding of the day, the letter said that thunderstones "always present the appearance of having been machined or hand-worked: frequently they come from deep in the earth, embedded in lumps of clay, or even surrounded by solid rock or coral".”

>> And whom are these “contemporary sources”? Not a single name mentioned here so we can check them out.

“In 1994, a borescope analysis of the stone's holes was performed. State archaeologist Richard Boisvert later suggested that the holes had the appearance of having been drilled by power tools from the 19th or 20th century:

"I've seen a number of holes bored in stone with technology that you would associate with prehistoric North America. There's a certain amount of unevenness … and this hole was extremely regular throughout. What we did not see was variations that would be consistent with something that was several hundred years old."

Scratches in the lower bore suggest it was placed on a metal shaft and removed several times.

Analysis has concluded the stone is a type of quartzite.”

>> This Wikipedia page is rather dry and plain, not much in it = the only direction it’s pointing us towards is that this artifact is a fake or a hoax.

• Page 2 396 –

>>16655995

(Please read from the start)

Let’s take another look at this artifact: https://www.ancient-origins.net/unexplained-phenomena/stone-egg-lake-winnipesaukee-003622

“Out of Place Artifact: The Mysterious Stone Egg of Lake Winnipesaukee

In 1872, construction workers digging a hole for a fence post near the shores of Lake Winnipesaukee in New England found a lump of clay with an egg shaped artifact inside it, six feet below the ground. Called the ‘Mystery Stone’, it is one of New Hampshire's more curious and lesser known relics . Amateur and professional archaeologists have speculated about the origin of this strange artifact for well over one hundred years with no clear answers emerging.

The rock type is not familiar to New Hampshire and there are no other known objects bearing similar markings or design in the United States. It may very well have been the work of someone living in a faraway place and time, as nothing like its fine workmanship has been produced by the Native American tribes living locally in the area.”

>> We have 2 important details we need to highlight about this stone:

1 – The type of rock of this artifact is not found in New Hampshire geology.

2 – The design on the stone itself is not known as that of the Native American tribes living in the area.

These 2 details are indicating that the stone came/was produced somewhere else and was brought/transferred to where it was found.

“Strange Symbols on the Lake Winnipesaukee Mystery Stone

The mystery stone egg is approximately 4 inches (10.2cms) long, 2 1/2 inches (6.4cms) thick, weights eighteen ounces (510.3grams), and has a dark-hue to it. Hard as granite, it is about the size and shape of a goose egg. The stone is a type of quartzite, derived from sandstone, or mylonite, a fine-grained rock formed by the transference of rock layers along faults. There are holes bored in both ends of the stone and it was drilled through from end to end with different sized tools, and polished along its surface.”

>> This drilling is important because this is indicating that this was most probably hanged to be seen from all sides since it was also decorated from all sides, almost.

“Beyond its strange construction and design, the stone is marked with bizarre carvings ranging from astronomical symbols to a human face along its smooth sides. On one side, there are what appears to be inverted arrows, a moon with some dots, and a spiral. Another side has an ear of corn with 17 kernels in the row.”

>> The moon should have one dot in the middle if this was the horns with electricity/energy between them of the horned Sebetti clans. But here, we have more than one dot, so this is not a horned Sebetti weapon we have here.

• Page 2 397 –

>>16655999

(Please read from the start)

“Underneath, there is a circle with three figures; one of which looks like a deer's leg, along with some kind of animal with large ears. The “third” side shows a tepee with four poles, an oval, and a human face. The face is sunken with a nose that does not rise above the surface of the egg and lips that seem to give the image some kind of purposeful expression.

History of the Lake Winnipesaukee Stone Egg

It was Seneca A. Ladd, a local businessman, who hired the workers to dig the fence post that is credited with the discovery of this intriguing artifact. When it was first unveiled to the world, the American Naturalist journal described it as “a remarkable Indian relic.”

Documents and newspaper articles show that by 1872 Seneca Ladd had the “egg” in his possession and by 1885, it was notable enough to be reported in the county history book. Ladd died in 1892, and in 1927, one of his daughters, Frances Ladd Coe of Center Harbor, donated the stone to the New Hampshire Historical Society in the state capital of Concord.

There it was separated from the Native American 1800’s-era cultural artifacts and items of modern day interest.

Controversial Theories on the Origin of the Strange Stone Egg

As for its purpose, there have been attempts made by historians over the years to come up with an explanation for the stone with no clear answer to date. Initial interpretations began with the simplest answer.

In November of 1872, The American Naturalist suggested that the stone "commemorates a treaty between two tribes.” However, this idea did not hold up long and it was later hypothesized that the stone was some kind of ancient tool .

There have also been suggestions that the egg could be Celtic or Inuit in origin and in 1931 a letter was written to the New Hampshire Historical Society suggesting that it was a “ thunderstone.” Also known as "thunderbolts" or "thunder axes," a thunderstone is a worked stone object, often wedge-shaped like an axe blade, that is alleged to have fallen from the sky.

Stories of thunderstones are found in cultures all over the world and are often associated with a thunder god. The writer went on to say that such objects “always present the appearance of having been machine or hand-worked: frequently they come from deep in the earth, embedded in lumps of clay, or even surrounded by solid rock or coral.”

>> IF the theory/possibility of this artifact is actually a thunderstone then from what is written here, the chances are high this artifact is somehow, someway, connected/related to the ThunderBirds. Too many Ifs.

• Page 2 398 –

>>16656005

(Please read from the start)

“Is the Mystery Stone a Native American “Birth Stone?”

Indigenous historian Joe Graveline suggested an interesting purpose for the Mystery Stone – he told Greenfield Recorder in 2018 that he believes it was a Native American birth stone. According to the Greenfield Recorder, a birth stone is “a stone that was heated and internally placed inside the pregnant woman by midwives to relax muscles during difficult births.”

Graveline says this particular stone would have been extra special and used by a Native American midwife to help a mother “deliver a person who became a venerated spiritual or governmental leader of either sex.” He also believes that it was a grave offering and if the construction workers had dug a little deeper they would have encountered bones.”

>> This is a possibility I never expected. But I have a small problem with it = the decoration on all sides are made to be seen regardless of where you stand. Carving the decoration on this stone must have been difficult and I don’t think it was decorated this way just to help a “special” child be born during a difficult labor. But I do agree with the proposition that the construction workers should have dug a bit deeper and around it = a bigger periphery, because the chances are high they might have bumped into a burial = remains.

“The Perfectly Drilled Holes

One particularly interesting detail about the Mystery Stone’s construction worth noting are the two holes bored in both ends of the stone with different size bits. Each bore is straight, not tapered. Scratches in the lower bore suggest it was placed on a metal shaft and removed several times, according to one analysis done by New Hampshire state officials in 1994. Richard Boisvert, a state archaeologist, believes these holes are highly regular:

“I've seen a number of holes bored in stone with technology that you would associate with prehistoric North America. There’s a certain amount of unevenness and this hole was extremely regular throughout. What we did not see was variations that would be consistent with something that was several hundred years old.”

Boisvert, who deeply laments the lack of details on the context in which the stone was found, went on to suggest that the holes were drilled using power tools rather than traditional techniques used by Native Americans. He added that there was every chance the holes were made during the 19th century, which would mean tampering of the object. This has led some to believe the Winnipesaukee’s stone mystery is simply some kind of elaborate hoax.

“The only thing that seems certain, or of which there is consensus, is that it was created using some type of machine . However, the fact remains that no one knows who made the object, when or why.

At one time the Mystery Stone attracted the wonder of the scientific world, with the Smithsonian Institution in Washington D.C. offering to send a map to Seneca A. Ladd to make a casting of the egg.

Today, the Lake Winnipesaukee Mystery Stone is on display in a case at the Museum of New Hampshire History, surrounded by mirrors to show off its unique and enigmatic features.”

• Page 2 399 –

>>16656012

(Please read from the start)

This stone is a great mystery. Let’s talk about the things we are certain/sure about when it comes to this stone:

1 – The type of stone it is made of isn’t found in that State, nor does the design is known to be that of a Native American tribe living in that region.

2 – The holes seem to be drilled by power tools and are of modern date.

3 – The designs on the stone are placed in a way that you will see the decoration from all sides of the stone, regardless which angle it is = as in this object was to be seen from 360 degrees.

Some additional comments are needed:

How the stone was found and how poor everything was documented doesn’t help at all into identifying the stone or its authenticity. Also the way the holes are drilled in was most probably to suspend this stone using a rope or a thread (or anything else) that can be used to hang it with. I’m mostly suspicious of the crescent moon with the 2 dots decoration we see on the stone. It doesn’t make sense at all to have 2 dots with the horns of a Sebetti clan represented like that = it should be one dot which is actually an electricity or energy spark in the middle of the horns. So this design doesn’t make sense at all to me and I find it absurd. Check out the designs from all over the world, and you will notice it’s one dot with the horns and not 2.

There are many theories out there as to the authenticity of this stone, the meaning of the design and what it was used for. Some of these theories are totally unexpected, even to me. When I look at all that I’ve got in front of me, I’m inclined to think this stone is not an authentic artifact but a “modern” day work = this is with the information I’ve got so far about it. I’m not convinced this is a real authentic ancient artifact. This is mostly due to the 2 dots of the moon design and the drilled holes are way too clean; which is making me believe these are done by power tools. So with what I’ve got, I’m incline to think this is a forgery or a hoax = not a real artifact.

There is a third option, but it’s on shaky grounds as it is with what I’ve got so far about this artifact = there is a slight possibility this stone was an authentic artifact which was found when it was found and SOME of the designs as well as the holes were added and drilled into it later on. As in the stone itself might be old, but SOME of the designs and the holes were added by those whom found it. This is also a possibility we should take into consideration but it still doesn’t answer where this stone came from and what was it used for.

This is it for this item.

• Page 2 400 –

>>16656029

(Please read from the start)

From the same Wikipedia page about the Out-of-Place artifacts let’s check the next item:

“[…]

Alternative interpretations

[…]

• Meister Print: A supposed human footprint from the Cambrian period, long before humans existed, which has been debunked as the result of a natural geologic process known as spall formation.

[…]”

Let’s take a closer look at the Meister Print: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meister_Print

“The Meister Print (also known as the Meister Footprint) refers to two trilobites in slate that appeared to be crushed in a human shoe print. The print was cited by creationists and other pseudoscience advocates as an out-of-place artifact, but was debunked by palaeontologists as the result of a natural geologic process known as spall formation.”

>> LoL! According to the Main Stream History, this footprint has already been debunked. Really?!

“In 1968, William Meister was searching for trilobite fossils in 500-million-year-old strata known as the Cambrian Wheeler Formation near Antelope Springs, Utah. He discovered what looked like a human shoe print with a trilobite under its heel after breaking open a slab. The supposed footprint was used by Melvin A. Cook as evidence against evolution in an article he wrote in 1970. Cook was not a paleontologist and his conclusion was criticized by experts. Upon investigation the print showed none of the criteria by which genuine prints can be recognized, and the shape could best be explained by natural geological processes.

According to Brian Regal "several studies showed the print was, in reality, an example of a common geologic occurrence known as spalling, in which slabs of rock break away from each other in distinctive patterns. This particular case of spalling had created a simulacrum vaguely suggestive of a shoe print.”

>> Whom are the experts whom “studied” / examined this print? Whom paid them? Whom did these “several studies” and whom paid for them? I have no doubt that ALL the “paid” studies were going to come out and say this is not a genuine, authentic print but it’s a geological formation which is shaped oddly. This footprint shatters the carefully woven veil of lies (((they))) have cast over our eyes in order to hide the true History of mankind.

The existence of the ARKS worldwide shatter the Evolution theory of Darwin whom was nothing than a person paid to play the part that he played. The MANY ARKS also shatter the other web of lies of Noah and his family being the only survivors and the only Ark out there. Both lies are presented by the same group of people in order to change History and twist it to make it convenient for that specific group. The Arks are there to prove the evolution theory is nothing but garbage and a HUGE hoax to distort History.

• Page 2 401 –

>>16656054

(Please read from the start)

Which in turn scrambles all the chronological line and destroys the idea of dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. We have already seen in this thread many artifacts from different parts of the world which are suggesting that humans have co-existed alongside with dinosaurs. This footprint is to be added to the artifacts from Andean region, from Mesopotamia and from the Dogon, which are all indicating that humans co-existed at the early stages after the Cataclysm with the dinosaurs. For me, there is no question about the authenticity of this footprint with all that it implies because we have the Arks and we have other artifacts supporting the same idea projected from this footprint = this is not one isolated case.

It’s important to highlight the FACT that the person whom left the footprint was wearing shoes = so much for humans being barbaric naked apes. The presence of shoes indicates the presence of a civilized society; which with the Cambrian trilobite under the heel is indicating that there was a civilization long ago. I’m going to stop here about this footprint because it’s supported by other artifacts and the Arks and I believe this is authentic and true. This footprint is NO hoax.

The next Out-of-Place artifact is from the same category as the Meister footprint and also projects the same idea = human and dinosaurs co-existed at some point in time, just after the Cataclysm ended and the survivors came out of the Arks. From the same Wikipedia page:

“Natural objects mistaken for artifacts

[…]

• Paluxy River tracks: Identified by Biblical literalists as giant humanoid footprints found alongside dinosaur tracks. Actually tracks of theropod dinosaurs, and 1930s forgeries.

[…]”

Let’s take a quick look at it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paluxy_River#Paluxy_trackways

“The Paluxy River, also known as Paluxy Creek, is a river in the U.S. state of Texas. It is a tributary of the Brazos River. It is formed by the convergence of the North Paluxy River and the South Paluxy River near Bluff Dale, Texas in Erath County and flows a distance of 29 miles (47 km) before joining the Brazos just to the east of Glen Rose, Texas in south central Somervell County.

It is best known for numerous dinosaur footprints found in its bed near Glen Rose at the Dinosaur Valley State Park. The Paluxy River became famous for controversy in the early 1930s when locals found dinosaur and supposed human footprints in the same rock layer in the Glen Rose Formation, which were widely publicized as evidence against the geological time scale and in favor of young-Earth creationism. However, these anachronistic "human" footprints have been determined to be elongated dinosaur tracks, river scour marks, and hoaxes.”

>> They quickly pushed this as being a hoax. There are not one, but many dinosaur’s tracks and next to them human foot print was found. As I’ve said before, this find is in harmony with the previous item from the Out-of-Place artifacts we’ve just saw and it’s in harmony with the Arks and the other artifacts from all over the places we’ve visited so far which are clearly indicating that mankind existed alongside dinosaurs. This is no hoax, it’s just a truth (((they))) don’t want to public to be aware of because it shatters (((their))) carefully crafted lie about the History of mankind.

• Page 2 402 -

>>16656076

(Please read from the start)

“Paluxy trackways

Many dinosaur trackways and footprints have been discovered in the riverbed. The tracks were first observed by a local schoolboy at the beginning of the 20th Century; the boy's teacher recognised the tracks as dinosaur tracks. Large-scale scientific excavation and documentation was first carried out by paleontologist Roland T. Bird from 1935. The tracks were found in Lower Cretaceous limestone of the Glen Rose Formation.

One of the most well-known discoveries discovered by Bird was the "chase sequence", which contains the tracks of a herd of sauropods and at least one theropod that appears to follow the herd. These well-preserved tracks were excavated and removed from the riverbed by birds team slab by slab; portions of the trackways were then reassembled at the Texas Memorial Museum in Austin as well as at the American Museum of Natural History in New York.The tracks have been attributed to dinosaurs similar to Sauroposeidon and Acrocanthosaurus, respectively. Other well-known and studied sites containing similar trackways are the Taylor Site, the Blue Hole Ballroom, and the Blue Hole Parlor.”

>> At least (((they))) admitted there are authentic dinosaur tracks in the riverbed.

“Man track controversy

Peculiar indistinct and elongate tracks had long been known to the locals as "man tracks" or "moccasin tracks". Since 1939, young-Earth creationists began to popularise the tracks, claiming that some tracks were made by mythological giant humans who lived at the same time as the dinosaurs who created the other tracks on the same surfaces.This idea became widely known especially due to the 1970 film "Footprints in Stone" by Stanley Taylor; one of the most human-like trackways has been dubbed the "Taylor trail". John Whitcomb, Henry Morris, John Morris, and Carl Baugh all are current or former proponents of the human footprint hypothesis. Though there are some that still cite the trackways as evidence against the geological time scale, the general consensus is that all of the human tracks were either fake or interpreted incorrectly.”

>> I laughed so much after reading this paragraph that my eyes are filled with tears. The problem with these human tracks are not just that they are side by side with dinosaurs but they are also big in size which in turn makes the humans big in size = giants. It’s funny how (((they))) referred to the giants as “mythological giant humans; (((they))) are making fun of the idea, ridiculing it so that the public won’t go looking into this.

Here we have 2 possibilities for the “giant” tracks:

1 – These tracks were left behind by a Sebetti warrior from any Clan.

2 – Humans were bigger in size.

Both suggestions are very possible since we already know that the Sebetti warriors are almost double the size of the current day man. But we have also seen MANY artifacts that not only suggest that mankind co-existed with dinosaurs, but that they were also proportioned to one another; as in either the dinos were smaller in size or humans were bigger in size. If we take this foot track on its own, then yes, it can be “debunked”. But the problem is that we have other artifacts from other places in the world projecting the same ideas as we have here.

• Page 2 403 –

>>16656096

(Please read from the start)

I took a quick look online, please check out the pictures yourselves anons, they are pretty interesting. Also, it seems we have a cocktail of human foot prints, as in some were barefoot, some were “giant” foot tracks, while others seem to suggest that the human was wearing shoes. And here we go again shattering the nicely woven lie of the Evolution theory of Darwin. The tracks do not project the idea of humans were barbaric apes in the past; that we came AFTER the dinos were extinct; that there were Sebetti warriors = giants walking on this earth; that maybe, because humans wore shoes back then, this might be an indicator that there was a lost human civilization co-existing with dinosaurs; that maybe, just maybe, we humans were big in size too. These tracks are automatically branded as hoax, fakes, controversial or whatever you want to call them because they expose so many lies. If one of these truths was uncovered, it would have shattered the entire Matrix.

Also, there is a point that is not talked about here: how those tracks were formed, either the dinos or human tracks? I’m interested into finding out how the geological and weather conditions were back then when these tracks were formed into the ground. Was it during the Ice Age which followed the Flood? Or was it during a volcanic eruption? Discovering how these tracks were made would give us an idea on what the situation was like back then.

“Some of these tracks were fake, carved by locals to sell during the Great Depression. Other man tracks are scour marks eroded by the river.Other tracks and trackways, however, were genuine tracks but showed features inconsistent with human footprints. Supporters of the human footprint hypothesis claimed that the tracks showed authentic mud “push-ups” and that the time period for the human and dinosaur trackways had to be the same as the trails intersected. In 1986, Glen Kuban found that most tracks are "V"-shaped, with indentations at the front that indicated the presence of three robust digit impressions, often with sharp claw marks. Kuban determined that the tracks were made by bipedal dinosaurs with three toes. Evidence based in human anatomy also refutes the claim that the footprints are of human origin. The foot length measurements were used to calculate approximate heights of the humans; the pace and stride lengths do not match these calculated heights, making it highly unlikely that the tracks are human in origin. The measurements do fit the known values for bipedal dinosaurs.”

>> Whom is the “paid genius” whom made these “calculations” according to the “measurements”? I would like for this type of study/research to be redone by a non-biased, professional, honest side please.

“While the dinosaurian origin of the tracks is well-established, their peculiar elongate shape proved to be more difficult to explain. The tracks typically show three digit impressions that extended from the front end of an elongated through. Kuban, in 1989, argued that this through-like depression must have been left by the metatarsus of the foot, a part of the foot that is typically elevated above the ground in dinosaurs. Kuban observed that this metatarsus impression is usually on the same level with the digit impressions – suggesting that these dinosaurs must have walked with a plantigrade (or "flat-footed") foot posture. Both plantigrade and regular tracks that only consists of digit impressions were found at the sites, indicating that the dinosaurs could switch between both modes of locomotion, depending on behavior.”

• Page 2 404 –

>>16656123

(Please read from the start)

“In 2021, Lallensack and colleagues confirmed that the elongated shape of the tracks resulted from the metatarsus of the foot contacting the ground. However, these researchers argued that the dinosaurs were not walking with a plantigrade foot posture, but instead walked normally, with the metatarsus angled against the digits (and the ground). The metatarsal mark would have been created by deep sinking of the feet into soft mud, leading to partial or full immersion of the digits and metatarsus. The mud would have collapsed above the sinking foot, leaving a shallow track at the surface sealing the path of the foot, which would have sunk much more deeply. This way, the metatarsal mark can be horizontal to the digit impressions even though the metatarsus itself was angled against the digits at all times. The narrow digit impressions would have collapsed more easily, resulting in their frequent absence in the tracks. The metatarsal mark, however, would have been re-opened by the foot when it was finally extracted from the substrate. The hypothesis of a plantigrade locomotion, in contrast, was considered unlikely by these researchers. A plantigrade foot posture would have resulted in an ungainly gait, with short steps and a broad trackway. Trackways consisting of elongate tracks, in contrast, show long steps indicating speeds of locomotion comparable to those of regular trackways at the same sites, and these trackways are typically narrow, with one foot placed directly in front of another. Furthermore, a plantigrade locomotion would have resulted in a highly crouched limb posture while walking, which is unfeasible at large body sizes given the increased stresses on muscles, bones, and tendons.”

>> (((They))) surely are going out of (((their))) way to prove these are not human tracks - of course according to (((them))). These tracks must have given (((them))) such a headache to cover it up.

“Digital recreation

In 2014, a digital model was made of the chase sequence trackways from photographs taken in 1940 by Bird. The photographs were used to create the digital reconstruction of the tracks as they were in 1940, before excavations. Though the reconstruction shows high variations in quality in different parts of the model, it provides a good demonstration of historical photogrammetry used to model deteriorated sites and specimens.”

>> Well, I’ve stated before why (((they))) don’t want to admit these human tracks alongside those of dinosaurs are real. A lot of the truth will be unveiled and (((their))) lies will be exposed big time. A lot of inconvenient questions would arise as well, mostly about the giants, the Sebetti clans and mostly about a lost civilization from long ago. The tracks shouldn’t be taken alone but should be regrouped with the other evidence from the same category. This should do it for this Out-of-Place artifact.

• Page 2 405 –

>>16656127

(Please read from the start)

From the same Wikipedia page, let’s take a look at the next Out-of-Place artifact mentioned there.

“Modern-day creations, forgeries and hoaxes

[…]

• Calaveras Skull: A human skull found by miners in Calaveras County, California, which was purported to prove that humans, mastodons, and elephants had coexisted in prehistoric California. It was later revealed to be a hoax.

[…]”

A closer look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calaveras_Skull

“The Calaveras Skull was a human skull found by miners in Calaveras County, California, which was purported to prove that humans, mastodons, and mammoths had coexisted in California. It was later revealed to be a hoax. Coincidentally, "calaveras" is the Spanish word for "skulls".”

>> So this item was quickly dismissed as a hoax.

“History

On February 25, 1866, miners claimed to have found a human skull in a mine, beneath a layer of lava, 130 feet (40 m) below the surface of the earth, which made it into the hands of Josiah Whitney, then the State Geologist of California as well as a Professor of Geology at Harvard University. A year before the skull came to his attention, Whitney published the belief that humans, mastodons, and mammoths coexisted; the skull served as proof of his convictions. After careful study, he officially announced its discovery at a meeting of the California Academy of Sciences on July 16, 1866, declaring it evidence of the existence of Pliocene age man in North America, which would make it the oldest known record of humans on the continent.

Its authenticity was immediately challenged. In 1869 the San Francisco Evening Bulletin reported that a miner had told a minister that the skull was planted as a practical joke. Thomas Wilson of Harvard ran a fluorine analysis on it in 1879 (the first ever usage of such on human bone), with the results indicating it was of recent origin. It was so widely believed to be a hoax that Bret Harte famously wrote a satirical poem called "To the Pliocene Skull" in 1899.”

>> Seeing how hard (((they))) came down on this one, it must be real. See how (((they))) destroy someone’s life and work? Compare what (((they))) did about this skull and what (((they))) did to Whitney to how (((they))) behaved towards similar sensitive subject = it’s the same M.O. I’m sure (((they))) activated all of (((their))) assets in academics, media, “paid experts”, etc.

• Page 2 406 –

>>16656149

(Please read from the start)

“Whitney did not waver in his belief that it was genuine. His successor at Harvard, F. W. Putnam, also believed it to be real. By 1901 Putnam was determined to discover the truth and he headed to California. While there, he heard a story that in 1865 one of a number of Indian skulls had been dug up from a nearby burial site and planted in the mine specifically for miners to find. Putnam still declined to declare the skull a fake, instead conceding, "It may be impossible ever to determine to the satisfaction of the archaeologist the place where the skull was actually found." Others, such as adherents of Theosophy, also were unwavering in their belief in the authenticity of the skull.”

>> See how the people whom challenge the “official” narrative are treated?

“To further complicate the issue, careful comparison of the skull with descriptions of it at the time of its discovery revealed that the skull Whitney had in his possession was not the one originally found.”

>> The mystery is getting thicker and deeper. What are the odds this was “done on purpose”? It’s not the first time we know (((they))) temper with something just to discredit it.

“Anthropologist William Henry Holmes of the Smithsonian Institution investigated around the turn of the century. He determined that the plant and animal fossils that had been discovered near the skull were indeed genuine, but the skull was too modern, and concluded that "to suppose that man could have remained unchanged… for a million years, roughly speaking… is to suppose a miracle." Likewise, J. M. Boutwell, investigating in 1911, was told by one of the participants in the discovery that the whole thing was indeed a hoax. The miners of the Sierra Nevada apparently did not greatly like Whitney ("being an Easterner of very reserved demeanor") and were "delighted" to have played such a joke on him. Furthermore, John C. Scribner, a local shopkeeper, claimed to have planted it, and the story was revealed by his sister after his death. Radiocarbon dating in 1992 established the age of the skull at probably less than a thousand years old, placing it in the late current geological epoch age.”

>> Holmes said something very interesting: the human skull remained unchanged for millions of years = this is the idea behind his thoughts. See, these people, these experts, they all believe in the theory of evolution and they said all of their words on the basis that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago and didn’t co-exist with humans. This is how big names, intentionally or unintentionally, called this skull a hoax. And it’s obvious there is a manipulative hand behind the scenes because the sister of a local shopkeeper claimed it was planted by her brother = someone paid her to say this, it’s so obvious.

“Despite evidence to the contrary, the Calaveras Skull continues to be cited by some creationists as proof that paleontologists ignore evidence that does not fit their theories, although others have acknowledged that the Calaveras Skull is a hoax.”

>> I haven’t examined the skull and it seems like it’s not “available” for it to be re-examined. The chances are there this skull is authentic and it’s another piece of evidence pointing in the direction that humans co-existed with dinosaurs. We already know that the theory of evolution is nothing but B.S. big time. We also know a Cataclysm occurred which wiped out most of anything living on this earth. We know many Arks exist all over the word, which were boarded by survivors of that Cataclysm. We also know (((their))) M.O. when there is something out there which puts the Matrix in jeopardy and expose the lies we are trapped in. So for me, once again, everything is pointing that this skull seems authentic. Just by watching/observing how (((they))) reacted, it’s obvious (((they))) don’t want to public to believe this skull is real. Alone, this skull can be labeled as a fake or a hoax, so we gotta combine it with the rest of the evidence of the same category which we are currently taking a look at.

• Page 2 407 –

>>16656162

(Please read from the start)

Next item from the Out-of-Place artifact page in Wikipedia also projects the same idea = humans and dinosaurs co-existed:

“[…]

Erroneously dated objects

[…]

• Malachite Man: Thought to be from the early Cretaceous; actually a post-Columbian burial.

[…]”

A closer look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moab_Man

“The Moab Man (also called "Malachite man") is a find of several human skeletons found after bulldozing in a mine whose rock dated to the Early Cretaceous period, about 140 million years ago. The original discovery of two individuals was made in 1971 by Lin Ottinger in the Keystone Azurite Mine near Moab, Utah and has been used by creationists as an argument for humans coexisting with dinosaurs. John Marwitt, an archaeologist and the field director for the Utah Archaeological Survey, examined the fossils and concluded that the fossils were probably only hundreds of years old, the result of burials of Native Americans.

Debated fossil status and age

In the 1980s, Paluxy Creationist Carl Baugh purchased a "Moab Man" skeleton from Ottinger; the skeleton was displayed in the Creation Evidence Museum in Glen Rose, Texas, as evidence of humans living at the same time as dinosaurs. The Creation Evidence Museum also housed a collection of supposedly human fossil footprints, vertebrate and invertebrate fossils, and fossils attributed to various dinosaur genera, including a mislabeled pubis and ischium assigned to Acrocanthosaurus and a solitary "Y-shaped" fossil assigned the name "Unicerosaurus" (Armstrong, 1987, identified this fossil as belonging to a fish Xiphactinus). Studies over the years had concluded that the fossil "human" footprints were actually "forms of elongate dinosaur tracks, while others were selectively highlighted erosional markings, and still others (on loose blocks) probable carvings."

Later examination of the "Moab Man" skeletons indicate that they are unfossilized remains that were subject to an intrusive burial, and have been carbon dated to between 210 and 1450 years old (Berger and Protsch, 1989; Coulam and Schroedl, 1995).”

>> Well, there isn’t much to say about this Out-of-Place artifact, apart that it should be placed in the same category as the previous ones we’ve already seen, as in, it’s evidence that humans co-existed with dinosaurs. And of course it’s debunked, according to (((their))) narrative, thanks to the “paid experts”.

• Page 2 408 –

>>16656173

(Please read from the start)

Let’s check the next artifact from the same Wikipedia page:

“[…]

Erroneously dated objects

• Coso artifact: Claimed to be prehistoric; actually a 1920s spark plug.

[…]”

Let’s take a closer look at it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coso_artifact

“The Coso artifact is an object claimed by its discoverers to be a spark plug encased in a geode. Discovered on February 13, 1961, by Wallace Lane, Virginia Maxey and Mike Mikesell while they were prospecting for geodes near the town of Olancha, California, it has long been claimed as an example of an out-of-place artifact.[1] The artifact has been identified as a 1920s-era Champion spark plug.

A spark plug encased in a 500,000-year-old "geode" would represent a substantial scientific and historical anomaly, as spark plugs were invented in the 19th century. Critics say that the stone matrix containing the artifact is not a geode, but a concretion that can be explained by natural processes that can take place over decades or years.”

>> This item is kinda linked to the other ones we’ve seen in the previous pages; mostly with what I’ve said about the shoe prints = an ape like man doesn’t wear shoes. Shoes are a projection of civilization, not just the shoe prints but also other artifacts of the kind. The idea of an ancient civilization long lost to us is also projected by some of the other Out-of-Place artifacts we’ve already seen in this thread, like the Dendera Lightbulb or Quimbaya planes, etc. I’m just trying to say that this artifact is not unique and can be regrouped with others from the same type/category. I would also like to add to this category the details on the Kamouh of Hermel, where what looks like an electromagnet is depicted (page 1 747). It projects the same idea = the existence of a long lost technologically advanced civilization.

“Discovery

Following its collection, Mikesell destroyed a diamond-edged blade by cutting through the matrix and discovered the item. In a letter written to Desert Magazine of Outdoor Southwest a reader stated that a trained geologist had dated the nodule as at least 500,000 years old. The identity of the geologist and the means of dating were never clarified, nor were the findings ever published in any known periodical. Furthermore, at the time of the artifact's reported discovery there was no method for dating the concretion.There are examples of accretions surrounding iron or steel artifacts, some of them discussed by J. M. Cronyn.”

• Page 2 409 –

>>16656186

(Please read from the start)

“Criticism and analysis

There are several pseudoscientific theories for the artifact's origin, among them:

• An ancient advanced civilization (such as Atlantis);

• Prehistoric ancient astronauts;

• Human time travelers from the future leaving or losing the artifact during a visit to the past.”

>> What if it was options 1 & 2 combined?

“An investigation by Pierre Stromberg and Paul Heinrich, with the help of members of the Spark Plug Collectors of America, identified the artifact as a 1920s-era Champion spark plug, widely used in the Ford Model T and Model A engines. SPCA President Chad Windham and other collectors concurred with his assessment.

Stromberg and Heinrich's report indicates that the spark plug became encased in a concretion composed of iron derived from the rusting spark plug. Iron and steel artifacts rapidly form iron-oxide concretions as they rust in the ground.

On April 12, 2018, Pierre Stromberg was contacted by the family of one of the co-discoverers of the artifact. Offered an opportunity to physically inspect the artifact, Stromberg accepted and also arranged for the artifact to be inspected by a geologist from the University of Washington Earth and Space Science department. The inspections confirmed the previous conclusion that the artifact was a 1920s-era Champion spark plug.

It had been claimed to have fossil shells on the surfaces "that dated back 500,000 years" but the University of Washington geologist could find no evidence of this claim. This raises the question of "the qualifications and competency of the original alleged geologist … in 1961". The reason the artifact gained the fame that it did was because of the shell claim. As of 2019, the artifact resides at the Pacific Science Center in Seattle, where it is shown in an exhibition called "What Is Reality?"

>> For me, it doesn’t really matter if this artifact is authentic or not. What matters for me is the idea it’s projecting which is bothering (((them))) = the possible existence of a lost, forgotten, technologically advanced civilization. Since there are a lot of “paid experts” out there, it would be “nice” if such artifacts are re-examined by the White Hats and the debate about the authenticity is settled once and for all. But like I just said; it’s the idea this artifact is projecting which is bothering (((them))).

• Page 2 410 –

>>16656191

(Please read from the start)

Next from the same Wikipedia page is the Newark holy stones:

“Alternative interpretations

[…]

• Newark Holy Stones: Used as extremely unlikely evidence that Hebrew peoples lived in the Americas, but more probably a hoax.

[…]”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newark_Holy_Stones

“The Newark Holy Stones refer to a set of artifacts allegedly discovered by David Wyrick in 1860 within a cluster of ancient Indian burial mounds near Newark, Ohio, now generally believed to be a hoax. The set consists of the Keystone, a stone bowl, and the Decalogue with its sandstone box. They can be viewed at the Johnson-Humrickhouse Museum in Coshocton, Ohio. The site where the objects were found is known as The Newark Earthworks, one of the biggest collections from an ancient American Indian culture known as the Hopewell that existed from approximately 100 BC to AD 500.”

>> I’m troubled about these stones. They are way too “clean”, way too “neat”. Just by examining them, I’m troubled by it because they are way too “perfect”, as if they just came out from the workshop which made them. There is no wear, no mold, no friction, no discoloring, no scratches, no etc.; not a type of damage of any kind on them or any signs of being used. The preservation of these items in such perfect condition is “magical”, “miraculous”.

“Discovery

The first of these artifacts, popularly known as the Keystone due to its shape, was excavated in June 1860. Unlike other ancient artifacts found previously in this region, the Keystone was inscribed with Hebrew. It contains one phrase on each side:

• Holy of Holies

• King of the Earth

• The Law of God

• The Word of God”

>> Do you know whom is the King of the Earth? = it’s the Evil One. He was a Sebetti ruler of the Light once, which makes him holy, but after he became evil, he remained only holy to his own clan’s people.

• Page 2 411 –

>>16656209

(Please read from the start)

After looking at this keystone for a long time = just checking the item as an object and not working on the inscription; I agree with what is written in the first picture I’m attaching with this page. This keystone is either a fraud or a modern day object = 19th century object. This is not an antique artifact, dating many centuries back. And I do agree with the idea this is most probably a masonic object used in masonic rituals and all the symbolism of a “keystone” is for the Illuminati.

“The second find came later in November 1860 when Wyrick and his excavation team came across a sandstone box that contained a small, black rock within it. The black rock was identified as limestone by geologists Dave Hawkins and Ken Bork of Denison University. On this stone was carved Hebrew text that was translated as a condensed version of the Ten Commandments. The name Decalogue Stone comes from the translation of the Hebrew letters that outline the religious and moral codes described in Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21, which refer to the Decalogue or Ten Commandments. The inscription begins on the front at the top of an arch above the figure of a bearded man who is wearing a turban and robe, and appears to be holding a tablet. It runs down the left side, continues around all sides, and makes its way back to the front up the right side to where it began. This pattern indicates that the inscription was meant to be read repetitively. Right above the figure of the man is a separate inscription which translates to "Moses". This rock was carved with a unique form of Hebrew, which gave the appearance of ancient post-Exilic square Hebrew letters that later was shown to be derived from the modern Hebrew alphabet. Additional photos of the front and back can be found in an article published in the Epigraphic Society of Occasional Papers.”

>> Once again: this item is way too perfect. The conditions which it is in are outstanding to a point that it’s ridiculous to consider this an ancient artifact. I’ve seen a lot of artifacts from all types of material being dug up/excavated in my career but darn it, I’ve never seen an artifact in such a perfect condition before. The state these items are in is making me doubt they are true antique artifacts, but as I said before, these are either frauds; or, more likely these are masonic items used in (((their))) stupid rituals. As for Moses and the 10 commandments, please go back and re-read what I’ve said about the fairy tale of Moses in thread 7 – starting page 2 100.

“Radiocarbon date of wooden platform

In 2014, Bradley Lepper of the Ohio History Connection discovered that a fragment of the wooden burial platform underneath which the Decalogue Stone was found had been preserved at Yale's Peabody Museum of Natural History. This sample yielded a calibrated radiocarbon date range of CAL AD 85 to CAL AD 135 (95% probability). Since the platform had been made from an approximately 2-foot (0.61 m) diameter oak tree, the burial itself could have been several decades later than this tree growth. These dates are consistent with the Hopewell culture that would have constructed the mound.”

>> First of all we need to recheck the results of this test. Secondly, if the “chest” which these stones were found in is old, it doesn’t mean the artifacts in it are old. What I’m talking about here is that there is a possibility the chest is truly as old as it is said in this text; but it was re-used in modern days and these items were put in that old chest to be buried together. This is not the first time in archaeology we see this sort of things taking place = an old “container” of some sort, is being re-used to put modern objects in it and then burry everything.

• Page 2 412 –

>>16656228

(Please read from the start)

Remember what the arguments were against the Shroud of Turin? Compare how the “experts” behaved towards the Shroud and what are the arguments they presented as it being a hoax and a forgery, to how the Decalogue is being treated. See what I mean?

“Historical context

The Newark Holy Stones are an archaeological fraud used to support the "Lost Tribes" theory, which posits an ancient Israelite presence in Ohio. The idea that there is a connection between the ancient Hopewell mound builders and Jewish settlers that were in the Americas before Columbus is a form of pseudoarchaeology.”

>> These Newark items are most probably masonic ritual objects made and used in modern times, most probably somewhere in the 19th century. Why and by whom they were buried needs to be investigated by those whom are interested in this.

“The first stone to be found was written in modern Hebrew. In July 1860 Abraham Geiger wrote in the New York Times that "the bungling work of an unskilled stone mason and the strangeness of some letters as well as the many mistakes and transpositions was his fault. The letters are not antique. This is not a relic of hoary antiquity".

Just over three months later, the second stone was found. This was not only considerably more elaborate, it was written in archaic Hebrew. Ken Feder compares this with someone today announcing that they had discovered a hitherto unknown play by Shakespeare which was then exposed as a modern forgery, then shortly thereafter announcing the discovery of a more plausible new play.

It is possible that the stones were forged to support a political viewpoint. Brad Lepper, of the Ohio Historical Society who has extensively studied the Hopewell culture, suggests that the artifacts might have been scientifically forged to help advance the theory on monogenism. In 1860, slavery was a subject of heated debate that was reaching a critical point in American society. Anthropology and other forms of science were often used in defense or opposition. Discussions promoting monogenism, for example, were often used to oppose slavery and segregation.

Hoax theories

David Wyrick

Among some of the hoax theories is that Wyrick faked the artifacts and planted them at the excavation sites. Prior to his discovery, Wyrick supported the belief that the Lost Tribes of Israel were the ancestors of ancient mound builders in Ohio. Wyrick spent a great deal of time searching a number of excavation sites at various mounds attempting to find supporting evidence of this belief.”

>> I don’t know about the reader, but I’ve seen this happen many times before in my line of work. I have seen plenty of artifacts being “re-buried” just to claim this and that about the Jews and (((their))) history. I’ve talked about this before = either the artifacts are dug up someplace else and re-buried, or they are fake/forgery artifacts. The history of the Jews is nothing but patchwork, fabrication, theft and copycats. (((They))) are the biggest imposters in the history of mankind. So I’m not surprised at ALL to read that such items (with masonic affinity) were suspected to have been reburied in order to push a certain agenda, a certain narrative in order to manipulate public opinion.

• Page 2 413 –

>>16656239

(Please read from the start)

“In 1861, Wyrick published a pamphlet that described his account of the artifact discoveries. The publishing included woodcuts of the inscriptions found on the stones. When comparing Wyrick's woodcuts of the Decalogue to the actual inscription found on the stone, Wyrick made at least 38 errors involving 256 Hebrew letters. Mistakes include illegible and omitted letters. Wyrick's depiction of Moses on the woodcuts had inconsistencies as well. Wyrick shows Moses wearing a beret instead of a turban. He also shows Moses in a 19th-century dress instead of the flowering robe shown on the stone.

Some believe that the person or group responsible for the inscription had to have an extensive knowledge of the Hebrew language. Given that Wyrick made a large number of mistakes on the woodcuts seem to indicate that he may not have been the stone's author. Beverley H. Moseley, Jr., former art director of the Ohio Historical Society, compared the carving of Moses on the stone to Wyrick's woodcut copy. He concluded that both images couldn't have been made by the same person. After Wyrick's death, Colonel Charles Whittlesey published a paper in 1872 in which he recalls discovering a Hebrew Bible among Wyrick's personal items. Whittlesey concludes at the time that the stones were a hoax, and assumed that the Bible was Wyrick's source of inspiration for the inscription. This theory was later discredited after it was determined that the letters used on the Decalogue did not represent a style that would have been consistent with the theory.

The Hebrew version used in the inscriptions is another point of contention. The version used was post-Exilic, which would not be from a "Lost" Tribe. Some believe this is another example that shows the artifacts were either a hoax or did not date back to the time of the mound builders. Wyrick also made a claim in a letter he wrote to Joseph Henry in 1863—one year before his death—that he might have been a victim of a hoax.

Rev. John W. McCarty and stonecutter Elijah Sutton

Rev. John W. McCarty and Elijah Sutton were both residents of Newark when the Decalogue Stone and the Keystone were found. Elijah Sutton was a stonecutter with no other direct link to the event other than his part in carving Wyrick's headstone when he died. However, it is asserted that because the Decalogue Stone is made from similar materials and is of the same width (thickness) as his headstones, he must have cut the stone. As for Rev. John W. McCarty, he played a more direct role in the artifact's discovery.

It was with the help of McCarty that the stone was translated. Upon receiving the stone McCarty was able to translate it within hours. However, "A few days later, McCarty published a second article, correcting some errors he had made his initial interpretation. In his first attempt, for example, he read the letters over the head of the carved figure as Mem-Shin-Heth, or Meshiach (Messiah), and concluded, as a good Episcopalian minister, that the figure was intended to represent Jesus Christ. In his second version, he read these letters correctly as Mem-Shin-He, or Moshe, and conceded that the figure in fact represented Moses. If he had composed the text himself, he would surely have gotten the translation right on his first try, particularly on such an important (and, in retrospect, obvious) point."

• Page 2 414 –

>>16656242

(Please read from the start)

“Source for the design

Archaeologist Brad Lepper believes that the inspiration for the Decalogue stone was Austen Henry Layar's book Discoveries in the Ruins of Nineveh and Babylon. Layard's work had become a sensation at the time and McCarty had access to it and given his profession would have taken an interest in it. Lepper writes that a stone carving on a temple entrance "looked very familiar. In fact, it duplicated, in great detail, the form of the Decalogue Stone. Compare the images for yourself. Both have a tombstone-shaped frame with a bearded man shown in left profile and the left arm of both men is bent. Both men are wearing long gowns and have some sort of domed head-covering. Finally, there is an inscription arcing over the heads of both men.”

Scholarly debate on the authenticity of the stones has continued for decades. Epigrapher Rochelle I. Altman, notes:

It was disturbing to learn later that the artifact with the shape of "The" Law had been correctly identified as medieval and European in 1861 by Dr. Arnold Fischel. It was disgraceful to learn that the Report, issued in 1863 by the committee appointed by the Ethnological Society which stated that they accepted Dr. Fischel's assessment and could not label the items as "fakes," was ignored. Investigation into why the correct identification had been literally swept under the rug only made matters worse. Why was the identification ignored? Because neither the committee's report nor Fischel's identification fit the two models erected with regard to these artifacts. On one side, we had a group who maintained that the artifacts were evidence of the presence of the ten lost tribes of Israel in "Ancient America." On the other side, we had a school who declared the artifacts were "modern forgeries." David Wyrick, who found two of the artifacts in 1860, including the one in the shape of the "Law" (now called "the decalog"), was "convicted" by rumor-consensus of forgery.”

>> If what I’m suspecting is true = these are masonic ritual items, then no matter how much there are investigations, we will never get close to the truth. It’s always blurry when it comes to masonic things and investigations always fail and lead to nowhere. Every investigation which has the potential of exposing the masons or the Jews is swept under the rug or derailed. Ever wonder why?

“Relate discoveries

There were other stones found at the Newark site, like the Keystone. Two other stones were also found at Newark shortly after Wyrick's death (they have since been lost). These stones were quickly dismissed as fakes when the local dentist, John H. Nicol, claimed that he had carved and introduced the stones to the site.

A fifth stone was allegedly found at the same site as the Decalogue stone two years later by David M. Johnson, a banker, and Nathaniel Roe Bradner, a physician. Named the Johnson-Bradner Stone, it has since been lost. A lithograph of the stone, published in France, still survives. The letters on the lid and base of the Johnson-Bradner stone are in the same peculiar alphabet as the Decalogue inscription, and appear to wrap around in the same manner as on the Decalogue's back platform.

Additionally, a teacup sized bowl made from the same stone material was found nearby by one of the persons accompanying Wyrick.”

>> Conveniently some of these items were “magically lost”. As I’ve said before, these items are not authentic archaeological artifacts but I believe they are modern day masonic items used in rituals. This should do for the Newark un-holy stones.

• Page 2 415 –

>>16656248

(Please read from the start)

The next item on the Out-of-Place artifact list from the same Wikipedia page can be put in the same category as the one we just checked. This one is called the Los Luna Decalogue stone:

“[…]

Modern-day creations, forgeries and hoaxes

[…]

• Los Lunas Decalogue Stone: Supposedly made by pre-Columbian Israelite visitors to the Americas. Generally believed to be a modern-day hoax.

[…]”

Https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Lunas_Decalogue_Stone

“The Los Lunas Decalogue Stone is a large boulder on the side of Hidden Mountain, near Los Lunas, New Mexico, about 35 miles (56 km) south of Albuquerque, that bears a very spectacular inscription carved into a flat panel. The stone is also known as the Los Lunas Mystery Stone or Commandment Rock. The stone is controversial in that some claim the inscription is Pre-Columbian, and therefore proof of early Semitic contact with the Americas.

History

The first recorded mention of the stone is in 1933, when professor Frank Hibben (1910-2002), an archaeologist from the University of New Mexico, saw it. According to a 1996 interview, Hibben was "convinced the inscription is ancient and thus authentic. He report[ed] that he first saw the text in 1933. At the time it was covered with lichen and patination and was hardly visible. He claimed he was taken to the site by a guide who claimed he had seen it as a boy, back in the 1880s." However, Hibben's testimony is tainted by charges that in at least two separate incidents, he fabricated some or all of his archaeological data to support his pre-Clovis migration theory.

The reported 1880s date of discovery is important to those who believe that the stone is pre-Columbian. However, the Paleo-Hebrew script, which is closely related to the Phoenician script, was known to scholars by at least 1870 - thus not precluding the possibility of a modern hoax.”

>> Looking at the pictures of this stone in Los lunas, this is no Hebrew writing nor is it what they stupidly call Paleo Hebrew script = this is Phoenician alphabet used to write the inscription on the stone.

Also the patina on the stone is notable.

• Page 2 416 –

>>16656261

(Please read from the start)

“Because of the stone's weight of over 80 tons, it was never moved to a museum or laboratory for study and safekeeping. Many visitors have cleaned the stone inscriptions over the years, likely destroying any possibility for scientific analysis of the inscriptions' patina. Nevertheless, comparing it to a modern inscription nearby, geologist George E. Morehouse, a colleague of Barry Fell, estimated that the inscription could be between 500 and 2000 years old and explaining its freshness and lack of patina as being due to frequent scrubbing to make it more visible.”

>> I’m crying from laughter. See how the stone is treated and “abandoned” on purpose so it would be destroyed? Amazing isn’t it? Each time there is a potential link or connection to the Phoenicians, the items is neglected, damaged, smeared, vanishes, vandalized, destroyed, etc, just before it gets analyzed or studied properly.

“In April 2006, the first line of the unprotected inscription was obliterated by vandals.

Visitors to the site are required to purchase a $35 Recreational Access Permit from the New Mexico State Land Office.”

>> So you gotta pay to see it and yet, not a single effort or penny was provided to protect the stone from being vandalized and damaged. What are the odds that first line was important so it was destroyed?

“Controversy

Archaeolinguist Cyrus Gordon has proposed that the Los Lunas Decalogue is a Samaritan mezuzah. The familiar Jewish mezuzah is a tiny scroll placed in a small container mounted by the entrance to a house. The ancient Samaritan mezuzah, on the other hand, was commonly a large stone slab placed by the gateway to a property or synagogue, and bearing an abridged version of the Decalogue. On historical and epigraphic grounds, Gordon regards the Byzantine period as the most likely for the inscription. The Samaritan alphabet is a direct descendant of the Paleo-Hebrew alphabet.

One argument against the stone's antiquity is its apparent use of modern Hebrew (or otherwise atypical) punctuation, though amateur epigrapher Barry Fell argued that the punctuation is consistent with antiquity. Other researchers dismiss the inscription based on the numerous stylistic and grammatical errors that appear in the inscription.

According to archaeologist Kenneth Feder, "the stone is almost certainly a fake." He points out that "the flat face of the stone shows a very sharp, crisp inscription…" His main concern however is the lack of any archaeological context. He argues that to get to the location of the stone would have required whoever inscribed it to have "stopped along the way, encamped, eaten food, broken things, disposed of trash, performed rituals, and so on. And those actions should have left a trail of physical archaeological evidence across the greater American Southwest, discovery of which would undeniably prove the existence of foreigners in New Mexico in antiquity with a demonstrably ancient Hebrew material culture…" and states that "There are no pre-Columbian ancient Hebrew settlements, no sites containing the everyday detritus of a band of ancient Hebrews, nothing that even a cursory knowledge of how the archaeological record forms would demand there would be. From an archaeological standpoint, that's plainly impossible."

• Page 2 417 –

>>16656267

(Please read from the start)

>> I see 3 possible explanations for this stone so far:

1 – It’s a hoax, a fake.

2 – It’s linked to the tower of Babel.

3 – It’s connected to masonic rituals secretly performed in that place in some recent century, not long ago.

I agree with the evaluation talked about in the last paragraph as in humans always leave trails behind them. If we haven’t found the trail yet, it doesn’t mean it’s not there. The area is way too big and there is loads of neglect concerning this stone, so I won’t be surprised to see nothing was done to verify this theory or try to find out anything tangible about it = mostly if this is a masonic ritual stone; because (((they))) do like to keep (((their))) stupid ritual secretive after all.

“British archaeologist Keith Fitzpatrick-Matthews has concluded that "Viewed dispassionately, the Los Lunas inscription is a clear, but well constructed forgery (for its day). Despite the claims of high antiquity, there are features of the text (such as the mixing of letter forms between two separate alphabets) that are much more likely to derive from the work of a modern forger than from an ancient Hebrew or Samaritan scribe." While at the same time acknowledging that evidence for the origin of the Los Lunas Inscription is "poor," Fitzpatrick-Matthews posits without support that the Los Lunas Inscription is probably a forgery by members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints enlisted in the United States Army in the latter part of the 19th century. His claim is based on two suppositions: the fact that this religious band, sometimes called "The Mormon Battalion," was in the region during the time; and the inscriptions are similar to those on the Bat Creek Stone, found in Tennessee in 1889. However, there is no evidence of such forgery by the Mormon Battalion and the authenticity of the Bat Creek Stone is still debated, with some evidence even supporting the claims of the Smithsonian agent who discovered it.”

>> What is strange about this stone is that the inscription is written using the Phoenician alphabet. If this was a masonic ritual stone, then it should have been written in Hebrew. But it’s not. There is nothing logical about this rock which could only make me believe of the possibility this is a forgery, a hoax. Do you think (((they))) knew this is a hoax, so this is why it was neglected this way? In the same time, (((they))) are making us chase our own tails regarding the riddle of this stone?

“Similar landmarks

The Los Lunas Decalogue Stone is often grouped with the Heavener Runestone, Kensington Runestone, Dighton Rock, and the Newport Tower as examples of American landmarks with disputed provenances. Other disputed American Hebrew inscriptions include the Smithsonian Institution's Bat Creek Inscription and the Newark Ohio Decalogue Stone, Keystone, and Johnson-Bradner Stone.”

>> Well, if the Los Lunas stone is a masonic ritual stone, then it “might” be regrouped with others of its kind. If it’s a hoax stone, it should be regrouped with the same kind.

This is it for this item.